Comparing Gadouken’s and Hadoukens are like tatsu’s and Messiah Kicks, their supposed to be used differently.
DP:- like I said, Dan’s moves are nerfed because overall he’s the fastest Shoto.
Dan’s kicks are worse because they only cover his front and as you pointed out, are not not as useful.
Hakan is outclassed, not Dan. Your not a Clown, if Dan was really outclassed you would have no reason to main him.
Dan has good tools. They could be better, but they could be a lot worse (Alpha 3).
Top tier are supposed to win tournaments, Dan’s just below them.
When you say Dan is the fastest shoto, what exactly do you mean? Because I think I might be playing a different game than you do lol
damn man no trolling aside, by your
description of Dan…man I should drop Gouki…Dan is super cold, the truth… huh?.. I like your attitude towards Dan, but I think your definition of solid is different then mine
calm down, just because his name means bullet does not mean his move set is nerfed bc he would be super fast 
…
Dan, this characters origin was actually a joke & a response towards the King of Fighters in making SF clone, Capcom was offended…
Here is Dan’s pathetic history http://www.gamesradar.com/the-pathetic-history-of-dan-hibiki/
Capcom never intends for Dan to be good and I would like to see Dan as a more serious fighter/contender but that is not the inspiration behind this character or ever can be
edit–back to gouki
I don’t see how you get Evil Ryu out of that. It’s just so vague that the only conclusion I could draw right is that he’s going to play Gouki or go back to a shoto in 2012. I wish he could have gone into detail about what he meant. Secret Akuma buffs?
The translation was a bit hazy in the recent interview held by the folks Kuwait, but this was translated when he was asked about his Akuma card and potentially switching to him for 2012:
“Let’s see… Well, not all balance changes are written in stone yet, but judging on what is known now, I think his changes fit me the best, so I’m practicing.”
Interesting. Tokido, Mago and Daigo all cite Akuma as being particularly strong in 2012. After speaking with HumanBomb yesterday (Australia’s best player who switched to Yang for AE, who was a former Akuma player in vanilla and Super) after finishing a dominating session in one of Sydney’s arcades (using Akuma) he told me that he felt Akuma was actually pretty strong in AE and feels he’ll remain particularly strong in 2012 also.
I’ve spoken to (and bitched) to 'Bomb about Akuma’s 2012 changes and he feels that despite the need to flesh out a couple of new setups, that Akuma will remain a very good character in 2012 and that I’ve been overstating Akuma’s nerfs.
Good things to know. I maintain that Akuma will still be damn good, but the nerfs on paper insofar are really irritating. Still, for top players to cite Akuma as being top of the pile in 2012 is pleasing to hear. There is also the potential for more changes to Akuma yet with the final revision before it is released (for better or worse) so I think its more important than ever to withhold too much premature judgement on just how much the nerfs announced so far impact him in the overall scheme of things.
One thing I am keeping in mind also is the fact that Akuma’s changes received a LOT of negative feedback from Akuma players. Thats not to say that it suggests a roll-back or even buffs, but the feedback is certainly something that Capcom haven’t been ignorant to I’m sure.
Surely fireball FADC cr.hp could also be used, I think it would be more damage also.
edit: dr4gz0r already said it.
Gamogo, what has Toxy said?
I get what you’re saying Gam, but to be fair, I don’t care what anyone says about a game they have yet to play (see the Seth/Mago thing), and I think Akuma players in these boards are competent and knowledgeable enough to understand how the game will be affected by the changes.
All in all, I think it’s the palm, even though we started complaing after the more recent changes. Throw nerf? We’ll waste more time (thanks Capcom) and create new setups to replace the old ones, not sure about crossups option but maybe we will still have those on some character, gotta have the game first.
st.HK nerf sucks (and the damage nerf makes no sense at all) and it will affect certain matchups (like, forget about it against Gief or Hawk) where we used that a lot, but the more I play the more I realize the move should be used sparingly - and if you win just by spamming that, you’re playing a mummy or something.
But the palm… darnit, that’s bullcrap, I don’t see how we’re gonna land those anymore. I mean, divekick are already a bitch to land because they hardly ever crossup and they’re blocked High and Low, but we actually play with the opponent’s knowledge and reaction there (meaning, at times they can expect the move to crossup when it won’t, or simply get tricked by their reactions and block the other way) and thanks to the fact that we can alter the move and delay it, we land one once in a while even with them being HL blockable. Ever wondered why Seth gets to land so many divekicks? Eh, that’s it.
With the palm we’ve got nothing like this, the scenarios in which we use it are pretty much established, and the majority of them consists in the opponent pinned down by a previous move with us dropping from the sky and wreaking havoc. It’s not a move we land because the opponent is, say, walking forward. The opponents now will always be holding down back now, because from up close you can only DF (v2012 DF = block low, go for something else if you’re seeing a grab) or jump crossup, to which reacting is brainless. Before this, the opponent did a quick H, then L block, which we had way around (palm whiff into lows etc), and that is now gone.
This could get really bad when landing a throw if the nerf screws our crossup options there, because it really could end up with the opponent only having to choose between a grab and just down/back.
So, how do we land this palm now, if it can be blocked that easily? Hitting during the recovery of moves (like, badly spaced fireballs or stupid FAs), yeah, like that’s going to happen against strong opponents. And that’s it. Welcome to v2012 vortex, where down/back fucks you up, and you gotta take even more risks then before with a 850/850 health character. Couldn’t care less what any pro says, it’s pretty clear how things are gonna pan out.
Guess we should’ve started complaining earlier, lol. j/k, wish Akuma was the same as Super, or at least had a decent EX Tatsu, sigh.
Toxy is our best player, isn’t he? He still plays Akuma.
Not at all, Dan’s has a few functions but hadoukens are better in every way.
Dont understand what you mean by fast, he has the slowest walk speed of the shotos and the slowest moves…
Dan needs help. Hes solid however.
I main Dan because I think hes viable and fun.
Let’s talk about Dan on the Dan boards.
AE 2012 needs to hurry up and come out. I’m very interested in seeing how this new version of Akuma will interact with the cast when all the nerfs and buffs for him and others are finalized. One thing is certain: if the Vortex is as nerfed as it seems to be, we will all have to focus on being a lot more solid in the fundamental areas = footsies, ground/air fireball zoning, and anti airs. I’m already making the adjustments to make the vortex a secondary goal and overall solid play the primary objective. His normals are average at best, but when combined with his foot speed, fireballs and anti airs, the character really is quite versatile with a lot of tools.
Of course, I still feel his nerfs are absolute BS and I’d like for Capcom to hopefully reconsider before the release date!
For giggles, here are a few buffs I’d like to see in my own imaginary version of AE 2012 if the nerfs stick.
In review
- st.hk does less damage and is -2
- df palm no longer an overhead
- +2 frames added to post throw recovery to nerf safe jumps, cross up attempts, and overall vortex pressure
- ex air fireball is possible out of ex demon flip. Whether this takes 1 bar or 2 bars to do is unconfirmed, and will have a huge impact on it’s usefulness IMO
- Ultra 2 damage increased out of teleport
L7 Zero Cool’s buff wishlist(if nerfs were to remain)
-
crouching fierce’s hitbox increased and start up time decreased, allowing for combos such as c.lp,c.lp,c.hp to link cleanly. this would stand the opponent up and allow for a light tatsu follow up.
-
stun on Akuma’s sweep reverted to Vanilla status
-
Ultra 2 can be activated AT ANY POINT during teleportation - even the very last part where there’d normally be a huge chunk of recovery.
-
vacuum effect on Akuma’s fierce shoryuken on grounded opponents, guaranteeing that if the first hit connects the other 2 will, too.
What do you guys think? Did I go overboard, or is the character still balanced and fair with these enhancements in light of the nerf? My goal was to pretty much make the character more formidable in non-vortex areas - damage, anti airs, footsies.
The reason Daigo is considering Gouki and thinks that even with the current nerfs he will fit him well is because daigo could care less about vortex and gimmicks lol. All his looking at is his fireball and anti-air game which is one of the best in the game (in theory that is), though that zoning is kinda hard to master (momochi is the only one I personally seen to just zone the shit out of people), and according to the recent videos it is looking excatly like that, he doesn’t go for vortex, he just plays footsies and zonning.
The thing is, Daigo will probably succeed in such style as no one we’ve seen before, but to be honest - no one could play like that other then him lol. Just as no one can play a vortex heavy Akuma with sick option selects like Tokido does.
On the other hand, for the majority of Akuma players that do not have a godlike reactions to DP every single jump in and whiff punish every time an opponent throws out a move, these nerfs are devastating, making us (as dr4gz0r has correctly mentiond) take even more risks with an already low on the reward side of the risl\reward coin character.
Yeah, Daigo will be a beast if he actually sticks to Gouki, and I will enjoy watching him play. And then, when I’m all inspired and shit, I’ll turn on my console and I’m gonna hate my life on PSN cuz Akuma will be oh soooooo tough to win with if youre just a decent\semi-decent player.
I don’t think this is the case at all. If he had no interest in wrangling Akuma’s strengths, he’d be better off using Ryu. 2012 Ryu has stronger fireballs, a stronger DP, easy to land Ultra and decent damage. If Daigo wasn’t to play to Akuma’s strengths, Ryu would be a far superior choice.
Yeah, of course he will use some of his setups, that’s obvious, even againts the Kuwait dudes he’s gone several of times for a DF divekick after a hard knockdown. It’s not the point man. The point is, while ryu may have a 1 frame faster recovery on his fireballs and a single hitting HP DP (as of now), Akuma has a good DP of his own (not better, but still good) a decent fireballs, AND an air fireball plus a meterless shaku fireball, that’s at least two more tools to youre zoning arsenal ain’t it? I myself never thought nor do I think now that Akuma is a good zoning character, I think in theory he is, but for that theory to become preactice, needs to be done a whole lot of reflex and game knowledge training, which obviously Umehara is more then confidendt with no? I think he thinks the same, Akuma can be better at zoning (just look at his matches againts momochi, zoning, is the only aspect that’s left the same for Akuma since vanilla, and ryu were even better then he will be in AE, and momochi did an excellent job in outzoning Umehara), and in applying pressure (due to his options and setups which umehara will be using ofc).
I even remember some interview I saw with Daigo, and there when asked about how he chooses a character, he said that the first and the most important thing to look at is if a character has a good shoryu or shoryu-like move, if he has, then he is already a decent character xD
Anyway, the bottom-line I doubt you will see a crazy-ass vortex play form Umehara with risk taking and such. Yeah, there will be some vortex, safe one, occasionally, which is one of those strengts of Akuma I’ve heard yeah? xD But for the most part, it will be zoning and using that boss-like sweep Akuma has.
DOES HE LOOK LIKE A JOKE TO YOU?!
I think u are in the wrong thread…good drawing though i guess
You know, by what you wrote (Daigo avoiding the vortex part and taking less risks) there would be no reason not to pick Evil Ryu lol.
Let’s be honest, evil ryu fucking sucks.
I still dont understand why people think he plays Akuma now for preparation to pick Evil Ryu in 2012… wouldnt it make more sense if he picks umm Evil Ryu now? just sayin…
+1 Ganishka
I think the right way to play Gouki is a pure zoning characters like Momochi in the old time, and actually NO ONE plays Gouki like that. I try to play Gouki like that (with vortex after sweep/throw of course), but I don’t have the level to play it correctly. I think Daigo is the only one actually (Mago, Momochi, Iyo can too) who cans play this way of Gouki. In theory, Gouki has all tools to deal with it, but no ones success in practice…
Because its inefficient in Super and AE to play that style. You could play that way in vanilla because Akuma actually dealt damage and stun. He doesn’t anymore.
Passing up his evolved oki game to maintain a spacing and zoning game-plan in Super and AE is just plain stupid, because in doing so you toss away offensive momentum AND the extra damage/lockdown Akuma’s vortex affords you once applied. 2012 I suspect Akuma will be a mix of zoning and oki, wheras in Super and AE he leaned in favour of the vortex, or setups that put you into gear. With 2012’s gimped vortex options a patient/zoning style will emerge but it won’t be without the vortex options that remain.
Its for this reason I’m interested in seeing Daigo’s style evolve. Right now he has zero setups and from what we’ve seen he passes up opportunities that Tokdo for example would be all over. If Daigo can wrangle Akuma’s vortex (or at least, his remaining vortex options in 2012) he’ll be a monster. His projectile and aa that we’ve seen so far is head and shoulders above Tokidos, but its clear where he’s lacking.