I like input leniency. If I get the general direction of a motion right, regardless if it’s 100% perfect (which it likely won’t be in the heat of a match), I should get it out. Everybody here uses shortcuts whether they know it or not. Doing 360s as 270s, Guile’s Ultra by charging back and reverse tiger kneeing + 3 Kicks, it makes the game feel buttery and smooth.
Anyone who can “feel” the timing difference of a 1f link vs 2f without a p- link , just go ahead a call yourself desk.
1f links do separate the men from the boys…
1 frame links are just tight links used to maximize damage in most cases. It’s not necessarily a “mechanic” as much as it’s a result of SF4s combo system. TBH 1 frame links aren’t even that hard (I play Rose so I’m SOL when it comes to easy combos) you just have to adjust the timing…you know by practicing. And how do you get rid of one frame links without changing the game system entirely? (Like some people suggested adding repeat input frames like BlazBlue, which would change the game entirely).
Here’s an example using Rose
Cr.lk > cr.mp is a 1 frame link. cr.lk is +4 on hit cr.mp has a 4 frame start up. If you make cr.lk +5 now that’s a 2 frame link. But now you can do cr.lk > cr.HP as a 1 frame link. Make cr.lk +6 now you have cr.lk> cl.mp and cr.lk> cl.HP as a 1 frame link etc. Same for cl.mp being + 4 and cl.MK + 4 eventually you’d keep going until around +8 where she has no moves with 8 frame start up, but then you’d have ridiculous combos for the sake of accessibility.
And plinking generally uses just about the same timing as your usual 1 frame link. I don’t do it online, but if I’m betting money then I’m going to maximize my opportunity to hit hard. But Russian roulette implies you have a 1 in 6 chance of hitting it, but if you practice then you should be hitting it at least 50% of the time without plinking.
In terms of sports people practice the same plays and the same drills over and over until it becomes automatic. But they still had to practice very hard for that.Audience members just look at the end result and think that anyone can do the same. And likewise that’s the beauty of 1 frame links. You know how much effort someone put into learning them. Like watching Sako’s godlike execution or any competent Ibuki for that matter; seeing them should motivate you to practice, and not make you create excuses as to why they shouldn’t exist.
My friend had the same issue with ken we had a 6 hour session and he would do it randomly all the time (on block, fullscreen, or just whenever). But his execution sucks can’t even do cr.lk > cr.lp > cr.lk HK SA with Cammy. Anyways I tried to find out wtf he was doing wrong because I couldn’t understand how that happened for the life of me. And I’ve found the reason.
My conclusion was that most new Ken players play Ken because their fundamentals suck so they don’t understand a lot about the game. What does this have to do with DP> Super? Well they probably don’t know about negative edge/ release check and blame that on their super coming out when the opponent blocks their dp. Other times they don’t know that diagonal forward diagonal forward is the most error free way of dping (also the fastest). Other times they don’t know how to walk forward and hadouken by just doing hcf+punch.
Having said that at least you made a sensible argument, instead of saying you wanted shortcuts removed entirely (I still remember expert gems in SFxT shudders). But I really do hope that people get better with inputs and stop blaming the game.
I’m a Rose desk…?! I’m a Rose desk! I called it!
As someone who plays a decent pad Hawk, I thank god for shortcuts every time I’m buffering a 360.
Then curse ostensibly when my low forward >fireball becomes an uppercut.
Repeat input frames would not change the frame data of moves. All it does is reads your input multiple times for a certain amount of frames. For example (from your cr.lk > cr.mp example), right now if you press c.mp on the final frame of c.lk’s recovery animation nothing would come out. With repeated input frames you could press the button on the final recovery frame and the c.mp would come out on the frame after the final recovery frame. It doesn’t make c.lk +5, (and it doesn’t change c.mp’s startup), so c.lk > c.hp is still impossible.
There are also a lot of ways you could have input repeats work. Personally, i wouldn’t have it be a “hold the button” thing, and instead I’d add a 2 frame window on the final frames of every move where if you hit another attack button, it will repeat that input for the next 3 frames (so in the example above you could hit c.mp on the second to last recovery frame of c.lk, and the input would be repeated 3 times until it is finally accepted on the frame after the final recovery.) See, you’ve just gotten rid of 1 framers (and made them 1 frame more lenient than with a plink), and retained only the already possible combos. You could also choose to put the “repeat window” on only moves that hit, or on both hit and block (depending on if you want to keep block strings harder to keep “true”, or if you want to remove the inevitable option selects caused by the window). Personally, I’d include it on blocked moves too, to prevent making hit confirms option selectable. This would also nerf the mash DP aspects of blockstun, but retain the frame trap game. All of these sound like completely acceptable changes to me.
And yeah, I agree with most of the other posters, a game where “don’t choose this character if you can’t do the 1-frame link” is so often a thing has too much reliance on said links. Not even professional musicians need to hit their notes exactly on a 1/60th second window to be good…
input repeat is basically what plinking is… and i prefer plink cause its a skill you must learn rather than something that happens automatically. And every character has effective 2+ frame links so playing them without optimized combos still effective.
Evil Roo is the only character that comes to mind where there is most of his stuff is really gated off by tough links. He becomes 100x more effective when you get that stuff down.
It always annoys me when people say this, considering it’s wrong. You need a minimum of 3 inputs for a DP. You can try in training if you want.
I like the part where I specifically said blazblue has a repeat frame system so let’s not make the combos into gatlings. Then I proceed to say the only way to you get rid of 1 frame links without turning it into a chain/gatlings system is change frame data. And then you still misunderstand and then stated the exact same thing I said I would like Street Fighter to avoid. Maybe I should always have a TL;DR in my posts.
“TBH 1 frame links aren’t even that hard (I play Rose so I’m SOL when it comes to easy combos) you just have to adjust the timing…you know by practicing. And how do you get rid of one frame links without changing the game system entirely? (Like some people suggested adding repeat input frames like BlazBlue, which would change the game entirely).”
^^
For your consideration.
TL;DR: I explained to the ArtV guy why 1 frame links exist and they are not a mechanic so much as they are a result of the linking system. And the only way to change that is to create a gatling or repeat frame system. I even explained by changing the frame data slightly you would still have 1 frame links.
Ok you’re right. I just tried twice and got it. The inputs showed three clean diagonals and a punch and I did a shoryuken. So my bad instead of twice it’s 3 times. #NotAShotoPlayer
Plinking is uncomfortable as fuck with a lot of moves on pad though, I actually had to resort to using Ken’s f+hk kara throw when i used him because I phyiscally couldnt plink f+mk with throw
Sako showed us that.
Off topic:
Ty for your sig blufang. I always wondered what was the backstory of Morrigan and Lilith.
I’m playing Ken on pad too.
How do you like trial 20?
It’s lovely innit?
I mean I eventually want to switch to a stick just because I think the stick is just more precise than the d-pad but it kinda annoys me that I feel like the game throws rocks into my path when I try to learn it, which aren’t so big anymore when you shell out 150 dollars.
Yeah, I read your post. You made it sound like you thought a “gatling system” would change frame data. Just because you weren’t clear doesn’t mean I didn’t read what you wrote.
"And how do you get rid of one frame links without changing the game system entirely? (Like some people suggested adding repeat input frames like BlazBlue, which would change the game entirely).
Here’s an example using Rose
Cr.lk > cr.mp is a 1 frame link. cr.lk is +4 on hit cr.mp has a 4 frame start up. If you make cr.lk +5 etc…"
That’s straight from your post. It’s completely reasonable to read this the way I did.
Fine fair enough.
I havent done a single trial yet lol, I only do training mode or online (or vs with offline people)
Ken’s pretty easy, his most useful 1F link is c.lp - c.hp but most Ken players use standing jab to confirm into c.hp. If you were playing a character like Rufus you’d have all the reasons to complain but Ken is pretty basic.
1 frame links can be a pain but I’ve been trying to get them down consistently, it’s not that bad after a while
Way too many of you are wishing for CAPCOM characters that already exist. I’m telling you—it’s a brand new character
in the CAPCOM universe. (who’s probably using a lot of already conceived movesets, LoL).
~K.