Sorry for getting the name wrong though, Cloverfield was a great movie.
As for netcode, GGPO was out long before SF4 vanilla. It showed the inferiority of input based netcode to rollback based netcode. Capcom was well aware of this also before SF4 vanilla. So Capcom is to blame either way, they should have implemented a rollback based netcode in the first place.
What digital distribution system? XBL or PSN? People already download whole games off them and a lot of them are most likely larger than USF4 will be. My point was always about what they should have done and what they have done and you’ve agreed with that here. I’m saying that USF4 should have been focused on improving the online SF4 experience and a balance update and that they had ample opportunity and resources to do so in the beginning and during the whole “ask the community” phase and both Capcom and the SF4 fanbase focused on the wrong things from the outset. The new mechanics are going to hard divide the community regardless if you have the option to switch between SSF4, AE, or Ultra due to the way they radically change the game. The hard copy cost to Capcom is also a moot point because people can get direct download options from Steam, XBL, or PSN and they are already producing USF4 discs.
You are right about new characters selling better but that’s what I’m getting at when I say that the player base for SF4 doesn’t know what is in their best interests. The thing though is they aren’t going to sell that many more copies of Ultra to people who don’t already have AE and that market would probably be better retained down the line with balance adjustments, new and improved system mechanics, and better online infrastructure. SF4 is an old game, people know its old and now it will keep playing like its an old game when both parties to this miss opportunity had the chance to fix it.
See you’re missing the point. Yeah, they could sell digital copies of Ultra but they CAN’T piggyback off of AE like AE did for Super. Thus it can’t be a simple $15 update. Ultra does not have its own infrastructure. If you gave Ultra SF4 an improved netcode, it would need a new online infrastructure thus eliminating its compatibility with previous installments which means they’d be forced to sell it at $40 for everyone rather than just newcomers or people who want costumes.
It was confirmed a while ago that USF4 wont allow people to choose to play with previous versions (like Super / AE option)
You can change the online infrastructure for gameplay without changing how you download the update, no reason they couldn’t simply allow a downloadable update.
It would likely cost more than $15 just because it’s Capcom but mechanically there is no reason they couldn’t if they were willing to put in the time.
Even so it still piggybacks off of the Super/AE infrastructure.
Only if the game and infrastructure were made with such a thing in mind. The entire reason that Super had to be done the way it was done, was so that it could actually leave the door open for non-disk locked DLC costumes and said updates like AE. If Capcom had any plans on updating the netcode as necessary past minor tweaks they would’ve done such a thing already as they would’ve planned for it years ago.
The other (and arguably larger) reason for SF4 - Super to be done how it was done is that at the time digital distribution for a large scale update like that (much larger than any following update) was simply not common yet. Few games had explored that as an option, and significantly fewer were multiplayer games. Digital Distribution has really exploded in the last 3 years on consoles far FAR more than previously. Digital distribution on PCs only really started taking off 2007ish it took a few years after Half Life 2 and steam came out to really pick up. I mean if you look at steam I’m pretty sure the majority of titles on the service were released post 2009 despite the fact the system came out in 2004.
Console digital distribution really only recently started becoming the norm.
Capcom hasn’t updated SSF4’s online simply because they haven’t put out a major re-release of the game since Super itself. AE only added four new characters and costumes while Super actually changed the mechanics and systems of the game itself on a fundamental level.
Ultra is closer to Super than it is to Arcade because of its changes to the over all game and Capcom isn’t updating its online for one single reason; not enough people said that they wanted it despite an online functionality being the most valuable asset to the modern SF4 community. Now, Capcom should have known as they have been improving their online with every fighting game release since Vanilla but their share of the blame is only partial. The community fucked up not knowing what was in its best interest and Capcom did the same not knowing what their market would best be served by.
Capcom doesn’t really value online play as much as social features. That is obvious by their continued stance to refuse to allow at least an unranked form of edition select online play despite the OVERWHELMING percentage of players who want it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t include a rematch button for 2 person lobbies or an “opt out” option to allow spectators to exclusively stay spectating or go AFK for a moment and have their turn skipped in a lobby without leaving the lobby.
I know that is an example, but a anti-dwu setup like this is no more than gambling. The defender has still too many ways to leave that situation. People in SF4 don’t know what block means, but I can understand them, especially against Makoto.
Thanks for highlighting that section I didn’t read his post all the way due to formatting being blocky + getting busy with something else (no offense!)
There are 3 problems with your idea @Kahmos
Frame data on the SRK wiki (and most frame data now a days) you need to remember that the listing actually looks like this: X Startup Frames +1F of the active frames / TOTAL active frames / Total recovery assuming whiffed attack.
Makoto’s HK Karakusa is indeed 9/2/47. However that frame data is actually only 10F not 11F because 1F of the startup includes 1F of the active section. The reason it’s written like that is to stop a different (and more common) confusion where people assumed “Ok a move that is -8F can be punished by an attack with 8F of startup” but that doesn’t work because then the opponent recovers on the same frame as your attack actually becomes active. So people started writing it the way they do now. You just need to subtract 1F from the total frame count of attacks to get the proper number. (The fireball data is correct at for example 45F for Ryu’s fireball, you just have to move the last startup frame to the first recovery frame, but the actual “total” listed is correct.
You can’t actually perform a “meaty” command throw in the SF4 engine. Characters are invincible to throws for 2F after any time that they leave a state the opponent caused that causes them to have no control (Hitstun, blockstun, knockdown). This allows players to jump out of throw attempts. If this invincibility didn’t exist you’d have throw loops that could only be escaped by an invincible wakeup option such as a DP or backdash.
You didn’t account for the 4F landing recovery from the NJ attack whiffing
If you time it “as they get it up” visually you might be timing it correctly without realizing it. So yeah. You’re a fraud :P. It’s still a tactic that works it’s just not an air tight tactic as you thought it was.
Most people think SF4’s netcode is the bomb for some odd reason. If everyone complained, they would probably change and/or improve it. However very few people mentioned it, so why would Capcom bother?
Well to most casual people rollback teleporting is way worse than input delay code’s slowdowns, that’s just the way it is. The sane solution would of course be a rollback with more than necessary baked-in delay, so teleports don’t really happen but input lag is consistent instead of fluctuating. Would open up the option of optional lower-lag lobbies for people you have good connection to or something, too.
Have you played Skullgirls? Teleporting pretty much never happens. If rollback netcode is properly implemented like in Skullgirls, or GGPO PC then it is far superior in every way. Furthermore SF4 has a massive player base, so you should have no problems finding a low ping connection.
However it isn’t even that I expected casuals to ask for rollback specifically or know what it is. However it seems most fans think the SF4 netcode is perfection when it is among the worst in current fighting games. (Worse than Skullgirls, Blazblue, P4A, 3rd Strike Online, Darkstalkers Resurrection, SFXT, etc.)