Ultra Street Fighter 4 | General Lounge

SF4 is solid all around. It rewards footsies, grinding set ups in training mode and knowledge of punishes. Overall though the system is kind of bland. FADC and Ultras are kinda meh all around. In all honesty I think they went into this game trying to make something that wouldn’t be too broken as opposed to wanting to make something new. Considering that Ono kept saying it was based on SF2 and it is closer to it than it is the other games in the series.

I mean, its not the worst SF entry in the series, its not the best (although 2012 has been great balance wise thus far) it just is. I’ve come to terms with the fact that SF4 is just the mid tier SF game. Unfortunately moving form CvS2 and 3S into this one makes it look extra lacking.

Bring back the “hit impact” from vanilla, that shit was the tits.
I want my screen shaking like an intensifies gif

It’s things like this that make you want to abandon FGD for GD the longer you’re on this forum :rofl:.

Capcom proved it hates you and it hates fun with the staunch refusal to bring back the vanilla announcer.

Violence will never again be a beautiful thing.

The critics won out in the end, poor guy.

I never said they shouldnt’ have improved the online before. But at this point it’s far too late. If they forced everyone to buy Ultra at $40 just so online is a bit better (and I say a bit, there’s absolutely no guarantee it would be vastly improved) Ultra would be screwed before it even started.

Ono wanted jumping to be a viable option vs footsies

Well, he got it

The reward for jumping is what really pisses me off more than anything else in sf4.

Judging from what I’ve heard from Japan and the new game mechanics, I feel that the playstyle of the game will remain interesting despite the big functional changes to how we approach each other.
The first and obvious thought process is that if delayed wakeup negates wakeup game than vortex characters will be lowered on the tier list, as their ambiguous offense will no longer be an issue, but I don’t completely agree. The trigger for delayed wakeup leaves the attacking player 11 frames to respond, depending on landing frames or the window to OS a high/low or left/right mixup on the ground still depends on the character.
For example, Makoto players could use backthrow>F.dash>n.j attack as their typical meaty setup, but if delayed wakeup is triggered, they can then follow up with a meaty heavy karakusa the moment they hit the ground, as iirc either HK.Karakusa or MK.Karakusa (command throw) has a 9 frame startup with a 2 frame active window, making it a perfectly meaty command throw.
Another is Dudleys natural options, fast overhead or crouching short, both hit high low and can be timed on normal or delayed wakeup as they are used on techable knockdowns, they can also be used for untechable knockdowns.
The one thing to note is that any setup used with a jump will be unable to be followed up with another jump as 11 frames is not long enough to commit to another jump, in many cases it will be a choice of going for a meaty attack, low attack, overhead or throw, these things are not as ambiguous as left/right but still have effective use. The thing is, throws and sweeps which are seemingly one hit combos for most characters will no longer yield such high damage output if followed with a successful setup afterwards, or at least they will not as often.

Now the more interesting and less negatively viewed change to the game will be red focus, which has been a recent topic among players in Japan and therefore here in the states. The ability to use red focus to turn seemingly any strong/fierce hit confirm into an ultra combo or high damage meterless combo has been buzzing in forums and videos in the past week or so. What we need to consider when processing this information is the value of this technology. Firstly, we are spending three meter to essentially “add” damage to a combo, by not using this meter for different or separate and perhaps more damage for you meter efficient combos, we are becoming more opportunistic, we are turning small combos into big combos at a high expense, perhaps even the expense of an ultra.

I predict this will take away the “no skill comeback” function of Ultras in future street fighter 4, because while we still get the use of the ultra at he same frequency, we spend a lot of meter to get the combo rather than work for it in footsies/wakeup game. The better player in most matches will either be the one who can use Ultras without a lot of meter so they can save their meter to do more damage over less connected hits to the opponent, or the one who simply generates more meter by applying safe/blocked offense.

This all leans in the direction of playing footsies and tacking on meter for every combo we connect with, because with a nerfed wakeup game players will have less opportunities to jump at the opponent safely and will require to play harder to make comebacks rather than connect with an ultra and even the life totals again. Even the ability to apply safe SRK’s has been removed to take away the ability to SRK-FADC and be relieved of footsies pressure.

These changes bring shoto characters as well as vortex characters down, and brings up the lame characters, the grapplers, and especially the footsies characters.
Practice for a more meter conservative future my fellow warriors, and learn how to spend it efficiently!

Capcom could have easily improved SF4’s online quite cheaply by recycling SFxT’s just like they recycled their characters. Both run on the same engine so there should be no compatibility problems with console versions. The only quirk they would have to do would be not to replace PC SF4 online because all the people that have brought up PC SFxT have said nothing but negatives. The entire netcode update issue shows that this update was largely built by popular vote both Capcom and the community at the time missed what was truly need for the game.

Unless they’re sitting on it, which I doubt, anything but USF4 PC is going to be a giant waste of everyone’s money, including Capcom.

It might not surprise you but I bet faster overall walk speeds would result in a lower amount of jumping as well as a higher risk for it.

In SF4 A LOT of the cast you will traverse more distance in a jump than you would walking for the same number of frames. (Ryu forward jump = 1.92 distance 40F total jump including prejump. 0.045 forward walk speed means 43F to cross the same distance (42.6 to be precise) )

Plus if characters walked faster then they’d be able to walk under jump ins easier, also there is simply the fact it would be harder to space yourself for a jump in on a moving target where as currently it’s a bit easier.

Of course this wouldn’t deter jumpins or SIGNIFICANTLY alter the reward vs risk ratio unless anti airs were buffed either in efficacy or damage or both. However walk speeds a lone would have an effect on it I believe.

Again, you keep using that word recycle like it’s one size fit all. You use that word cheap.

You assume like it would be free. “They already have the netcode for a similar game, how expensive or time consuming could it be?”

And lastly, ONCE AGAIN, they’d still be forced to sell everyone hard copies. The digital distribution system they had been using for AE would be unusable.

Yes, there would be a decent few who would be willing to pony up extra money in order to get a better netcode, hell I’m sure there are plenty of people who would be willing to pay $40 for AEv2012: Better Netcode Edition rather than dropping $15 for USF4, but those people are few and far between.

In business you have to try to get as much efficiency out of sales as possible, even if it means the overall quality of the game itself suffers. It’s a pain in the ass system for consumers but it’s one that comes with the territory like with any other product. And everyone knows that what sells game copies are flashy shit like new characters and stages, even if they are recycled, new modes no one will use and so on. That sells over simply updated netcode and a balance patch. Why is that, even though the latter is a lot more fulfilling gameplay wise than the former? Because the former LOOKS more new than the latter to the general public eye and thus will sell more copies. On top of that, one allows them to sell for both $15 and $40 and the other they’re forced to sell at $40 only.

Again, I’d even be one to pay more money for a SF4 with better netcode and NO OTHER CHANGES. But not many people would be like that. You can say Capcom’s being lazy and screwing consumers again, but consumers allow this to happen by preferring the flashier changes. If you want developers to change, the consumers themselves have to change.

i dont agree with everything you said, but kudos for a coherent argument and analytical thought process

i think shotos and true vortex characters are still going to be really good. shotos still function really well when played from a predominantly neutral game plan, and the truest vortex characters can either use visual wake up cues, or stall themselves in the air, use soft KD vortexes, or can still be really threatening without having to cross you up first

the characters that i think end up being truest poop are the ones with shitty neutral games and/or they needed hard KD set plays to do anything tangible. like the only thing they could do was play hard for a throw or a sweep then use a hard timed ambiguous cross up or unblockable

think of characters like blanka. unsafe specials, bad normals with poor damage rewards, no fireballs.

At least my main can ride the momentum to a win thanks to high damage and good poke damage conversions. Not so much for Blanka/Deejay :frowning:

If anyone cares to explain…

@ 5:13 Gouken uses an EX counter which is active on the first frame yet Cammy passes through…

@ 6:25 EX tatsu has been reduced to 5 frames, the hitbox extended to the floor so that you cannot low profile it, yet it flies off without even putting Cammy in blockstun DESPITE the fact she is standing.

bugs? design? ideas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjL8F4ioOys

Created a thread on ask capcom to MAYBE (probably not) see why they didn’t put in-game hitbox viewer in USF4. Got probably the greatest reply ever from some random user and I have to share it because it’s so bad. I don’t want to turn this into a scrubquotes thing but this post just must be seen. I must spread this idiocy for all to enjoy.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_capcom/go/thread/view/7371/30266339/why-no-hitbox-viewer-ingame-for-usf4-is-it-just-marketing?post_num=3#539427789

I hope this brightens up your day a little. It sure did mine :3

Now back to our regularly scheduled ranting.

  1. I’m not sure, my guess is that the dive kick active frames ran out early because Kbrad mistimed his setup. I honestly dunno, it’s 100% a guess.

  2. Well, that would be true if they were playing USF4 and not AE2012 as it clearly says at the start of the video between the two super bars and also says in the video description as well as being from a WNF set on 5/1/2014 when ultra was not being tested anywhere near socal IIRC.

I love characters with slides just for going under jump in.
People get so lost against that.

http://dafeetlee.wordpress.com/2014/05/16/usfiv-decapre/

I wrote a short Decapre guide for all future Decapre players. Please let me know if I missed anything!

Awesome, I’m an idiot. Thanks.