Ultra Street Fighter 4 | General Lounge

[jebop]

If sim loses 2 hit mk in the final build I’m going to be pissed. I don’t understand why they insist on sim being mid to trash tier.

They probably don’t want one of the new characters to have such a blatantly horrible match-up, so Sim is paying for it.

Isn’t that the usual story for Sim?

[aznmonk06]

Is there going to be updated trials? It’s been the same since vanilla.

[Saitsu]

If sim loses 2 hit mk in the final build I’m going to be pissed. I don’t understand why they insist on sim being mid to trash tier.

They probably don’t want one of the new characters to have such a blatantly horrible match-up, so Sim is paying for it.

Momochi shouldn’t have hit st.MK 27 times…

You mean YHC Mochi. Momochi never touches Sim. He’s too busy hitting Ken’s new cr.MK 27 times.

[jebop]

Is there going to be updated trials? It’s been the same since vanilla.

Decent trials? Wtf you think this is? KOF? LOL AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FO DAT! #Kappa

[Doopliss]

Is there going to be updated trials? It’s been the same since vanilla.

They’ve been the same since SSFIV*. But yes, they’re apparently making new ones now. But we have yet to hear any new details about those.

Is there going to be updated trials? It’s been the same since vanilla.

Decent trials? Wtf you think this is? KOF? LOL AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FO DAT! #Kappa

KoF trials aren’t decent, they’re evil. The dude who thought it was a good idea to have trials with fully charged TAP-like moves in them should burn for it.

[Doopliss]

I hate pressing quote instead of edit.

[Essenthy]

If sim loses 2 hit mk in the final build I’m going to be pissed. I don’t understand why they insist on sim being mid to trash tier.

They probably don’t want one of the new characters to have such a blatantly horrible match-up, so Sim is paying for it.

Momochi shouldn’t have hit st.MK 27 times…

You mean YHC Mochi. Momochi never touches Sim. He’s too busy hitting Ken’s new cr.MK 27 times.

wich also got nerfed and reverted back to AE2012 version

[Saitsu]

If sim loses 2 hit mk in the final build I’m going to be pissed. I don’t understand why they insist on sim being mid to trash tier.

They probably don’t want one of the new characters to have such a blatantly horrible match-up, so Sim is paying for it.

Momochi shouldn’t have hit st.MK 27 times…

You mean YHC Mochi. Momochi never touches Sim. He’s too busy hitting Ken’s new cr.MK 27 times.

wich also got nerfed and reverted back to AE2012 version

And thus Ultra turns into what people apparently wanted it to be in the first place. AEv2013.

[Essenthy]

eh they could nerf whatever they want i wouldnt care that much if i didnt think that DWU gonna ruin all the fun

[Phantom_Angel]

If sim loses 2 hit mk in the final build I’m going to be pissed. I don’t understand why they insist on sim being mid to trash tier.

They probably don’t want one of the new characters to have such a blatantly horrible match-up, so Sim is paying for it.

Momochi shouldn’t have hit st.MK 27 times…

You mean YHC Mochi. Momochi never touches Sim. He’s too busy hitting Ken’s new cr.MK 27 times.

Yea, that guy… I always get them mixed up lol. For a while, I thought Mochi was Momochi and they just shortened his name on stream. Then I had to wonder why the hell he was playing Dhalsim and not Akuma or something.

[jebop]

Fei Long still good
Cammy still good
Akuma still good
Adon still good
DWU
Seth is shit
Ken/Vega/Dhalsim got some buffs reverted
Bison same old playstyle with extra combos

I can’t even call it a patch upgrade. It’s AE2012 with another 2 in the top 5. Q.Q Also in before people go for Red Focus combos and fail.

[otter]

Are there any videos of Hugo not sucking?

[Mnszyk]

I’m saying that his statement doesn’t make sense. If DWU is Adon’s biggest nerf, it implies that it’s harder to score damage. Why would he say this means that the game is not slower paced? Remember, Adon got a bunch of other nerfs as well but he says DWU is what hurts Adon the most. And the nature of DWU means that it causes you to lose offensive momentum, which implies there is more time on screen where nothing is happening, which implies less tension (what other forms of offensive momentum are there really in SFIV anyway?). DWU also means less damage opportunities, which means it’s harder to score damage, which means that matches take longer (DWU works the other way as well - it’s harder for opponents to get damage against him).

But DWU doesn’t cause you to completely lose offensive momentum, it reduces the effectiveness of some specific types of wake-up pressure. Given that some strong reversal options were nerfed, isn’t it possible that some match-ups came out basically the same, or even favoring wake-up pressure more?

Also, your quote from Daigo is interesting, but surely the context of that is important. We’re talking about a Vanilla SF4 that was dominated by Sagat and Ryu with unnerfed ultras, with really undeveloped option selecting tech and wake-up pressure. All these set-ups we’re talking about, you can still do those and get them if your opponent guesses not to delay stand. All of these characters like Yun, Cammy, Sakura, and Adon are post-vanilla. People’s understanding of characters like Viper have substantially improved. Ultra damage got heavily nerfed, Super SF4 buffed overheads, SRK fadc’s have gotten repeatedly nerfed, and people’s anti-crouch, anti-backdash technology has developed leaps and bounds. The bulk of new characters have tended to have meter-dependent or weaker reversal options. The offensive buff that Daigo was asking for actually happened, at least in part. Daigo’s opinion of Vanilla SF4 is interesting, but it’s also 5 years old.

Wherever we end up after Ultra is finalized, it isn’t going to be back to Vanilla somehow. Hell, even if we went back to Vanilla, it wouldn’t play like we played Vanilla.

[Noocta]

Gamerbee is not showing enthusiasm about Adon. He’s still good, but without set plays he looks a lot easier to beat for a lot of characters.

[crazydiamond]

Who’s to say that emphasizing these other aspects won’t actually speed up the pace of the game?

How? The nerf to knockdowns doesn’t emphasize fundamentals, it just forces them. But footsies aren’t very strong in SFIV to begin with. That’s one of the game’s biggest issues.

Look at Rose for example. She got buffs to her zoning, her footsies and her combo damage. These are good things. But, she didn’t really have an oki game to begin with. So from her perspective, yes, the pace of the game will be faster because she gets more damage from various situations. In fact, given the buffs to her damage, it means that everyone automatically has 50 less life against her (on average) before the round even begins. Again, this is a very good thing. But, why not give EVERYONE the same treatment? Nerfing knockdowns doesn’t automatically buff footsies. To buff footsies you need to actually explicitly buff footsie tools. From what I can see, Adon’s overall footsie game was nerfed, not buffed.

So no, I can’t see how forcing footsies and zoning (which is implicitly a slower-paced strategy) compensates for the nerfing of oki.

It doesn’t mean that footsies will automatically be buffed. It just means that they will be used more.

[crazydiamond]

eh they could nerf whatever they want i wouldnt care that much if i didnt think that DWU gonna ruin all the fun

I’m looking forward to delwayed wake up.

[Huggy_Bear]

No matter what Capcom did regarding Ultra, people would still complain. They were never going to be universally excepted with these changes, there was no chance of it happening, but god damn people are so arsey these days

[cerberusfx]

apparently Chun can punish Rose’s U2 after activation in usf4

[HNIC_Mike]

apparently Chun can punish Rose’s U2 after activation in usf4

She can do that now, can’t she?

Assuming it has more than 2 frames of recovery, she can super you after the flash if she’s close enough

[Noocta]

She can, but it’s a frame perfect punish

Alioune was talking about it with Luffy and Valmaster on twitter, and even streamed a bit of testing.