Less pushback might have actualy more or less fixed the problem of hands hitting only once, i like this idea, combined with the hands hitbox increase it would’ve been pretty good.
I actualy agree with this a lot. Its annoying that the normals trade. BUT one thing you have to remember is that gen is quite tricky, one poke can lead not only into a combo or super - ultra but another setup after that. So he is quite deadly and giving him godlike anti airs could be too strong in their opinion. Although they could atleast make normals not trade if not buffing the uppercut since gen strives for meter and even though the setups are deadly his combos do shit damage.
Also about the wakeup game. To be fair a lot of character have worse and they don’t have gen’s godlike backdash. So I don’t mind him having meh uppercut since his wakeup options are versitale enough. Although it is annoying to get stunned so fast so I like the stun buff although it’s minor.
I’m pretty sure you can hit atleast mantis super after it now. That is just another tool in this footsies. Although situational pretty damn deadly. Imagine crane cr. hp counter hit into super into ultra. Mother of God the damage… It seems their intent was to compensate atleast a bit for that nerfed focus.
The roll should be cool for pressure/free chip and you can now hitconfirm crane cr. lk on everyone since you don’t need st. lp which gives him a decent option for hard knocdowns.
Yeah i hate it too. One of the few times i use crane st. hp lol.
As I said i think they wanted to make him more ground game based without him having that dumb focus, Not to say i agree with them completely since others can have it (cough fei *cough) but I like the idea. Its just executed not as many of us might have wanted but hey atleast we got something.
As I said I love W ultra on him because although we loose damage what we can’t forget is he actualy has setups after pretty much every ultra. Which adds to the damage we do after ultra. So having 4 of them is realy scarry as so many options and potential followups. Now some characters will think twice before throwing out fireballs or jumping.
Eh it’s good but it also removes some oki options for gen (mainly unblockables).
Im 99% sure it can so again, good tool making opponent waste those two meters if he doesn’t know it or making him think twice for using it outside of a combo.
Level 1 ex red focus combos are very situational in my opinion. If you have 3 bars and you can kill yes. If not save it up for the super. A lot more damage.
I’m just curious as to what they’ve come up with when it comes to red focus combos is all.
It might not be worth it to them at all like you say because super is so important with Gen and getting good damage.
It’s that it’s really easy to do mp,hands into red-focus lvl1 crumple on that PC mod. I wonder if it’s still possible to do that in Ultra with the focus nerf.
I’m not totally sure…I’m using Street’s updated mod he posted like a page ago…the one he changed a little from King Blacktoof’s original. I remember Blacktoof commenting in his 1st Gen mod video about how absurd Gen’s mantis focus attack was and that he’s gonna have a really good red focus attack, etc. Hey actually said…“I’m surprised they didn’t nerf this for Ultra”…or something to the effect.
Uh, “more consistent”?! How about no? They didn’t give him any bigger buffs at all. They promised better hitbox on hands, that it would hit crouchers, but in the video vs Valmaster it was horrible. Less pushback on hands could perhaps be great against some characters, but from what I have heard it isn’t enough to do loops. His neutral game will be far worse now because of the insane nerf to focus attack. You think slightly less pushback on hands (that doesn’t loop) makes up for that?! And worse jumpins … why? They’ve already hurt his neutral game and pressure on downed opponents – now this?! If you couldn’t see that Gen vs Chun was a really one-sided matchup from Xian vs Valmaster I don’t know what to tell you.
And people talking about how W Double Ultra is going to help Gen, especially with super … uh, WDU deals so little damage so I definitely don’t think it’s worth it. You can’t afford to give up like 35% of the damage for the option of Crane U2. Things would have been different if Capcom was sane enough to make Mantis U1 work as an anti-air, but they obviously want it to be near useless.
Ruining Gen of all characters really shows how clueless they are. No way I’m getting Ultra.
I don’t remember an abundance of people asking for a better c cr hk; most people wanted a better hitbox on hands (something they promised to fix but really didn’t), stance glitch fix better roll and crane normals. Oh, and fixed Mantis U1. Most of all, I think most Gen players just wanted them to leave him alone. Gen doesn’t exactly attract a lot of tier whores, so most of us are happy with him being a decent character.
I think the roll buff is pretty cool, but they obviously should have decreased recovery instead of increasing blockstun; wouldn’ve made it a much better pressuring tool.
Yes he got nerfed, but i always felt he shouldn’t have that focus, it has such a long range. But they should’ve buffed his other footsies if they wanted to nerf focus. Which they didn’t so this is actualy quite pointless to nerf it.
To be fair I still don’t mind nerfs. The focus was good for fireball characters since you can use double ultra you don’t need to rely so much on the focus in fireball matchups. You say nerfed damage? Sure but it still does decent damage as well as gives him a setup after the ultra. Most ultras don’t let characters continue the pressure, with added buff to roll it’ll help to continue applying it.
What ACTUALY terifes me is buffed guile. Not the fact he was buffed but that matchup is propably the worst for gen (atleast in my opinion) and now it’s gonna be even shittier. I rather fight this dumb ass cammy than guile which you can’t do shit against and eat chip damage all day, with nerfed air normals and guile’s buffed air grab this I would even go calling it 7-3. Auto correct ultra will help him get out of cross ups which is also realy annoying. Gosh i get shivers when I think of this matchup in ultra.
Also the fact that I noticed that they nerfed what people were bitching about because those were the exact things my friends would bitch, every single one which makes me laugh as they listen to whiners rather than actual characters specialists.
It might look like I’m contradicting myself but I just look forward to playing him different, I like the fact that you kinda have to play him different now. Maybe not always in a good way but there are some fun things.
That autocorrect U1 of Guile’s gives me tears. I might go calling the match-up worse than 7-3 after Ultra lololol less number of lucky Crane j.HP thanks to a bigger hurtbox.
Personally, I’m gonna go the same way I do now regarding Ultra set: pick either U1 or U2 depending on characters and players. Probably U2 for fireball characters.
I think the match-up that we’ll have to watch out for is Juri. I have no idea how this will go after Ultra. And Makoto as well.
In Japanese BBS, there have been contradicting claims regarding stance change glitch in the air. Some players said it’s not fixed period, and some players said it only works if you do that 3P/3K stuff in the air. Either way we can be pretty sure that Crane j.MK into Mantis ground normal will require the same timing as it is now unless they change it in console version.
Exactly my thoughts. That matchup already relied on getting that lucky jump in. Oh the sonic boom is counter hitable now? Cool because its fucking useless since the only normal which can be capitalized off ch is st. mp maybe VERY lucky mantis st. hp into target combo or even luckier cr. hp. Combined with that ultra it will be horrible.
I will pick double ultra on fireball characters I think. I like having a lot options even if theyre weaker.
Also what about sim? until you have ultra (assuming you have ultra 2 or double), youll have a hard time to get in because of new st. mk aswell as the increased hurtbox on jump ins and oga (which is more of a gimmick anyway).
Gouken too? Not as bad obviously but to be fair these nerfs affect most matchups against heavy zoners, gouken is gonna be even harder to jump on, impossible to focus, realy hard to u2. Only way is focuis through since he doesnt’ have two hit ex fireball so there’s atleast that.
About Dhalsim, it’s gonna depend on how his st.MK hitbox on the 2nd hit is. I imagine it would whiff on most characters while crouching. Hopefully.
Gouken has a better EX Tatsu, but that’s basically the one that matters when it comes to Gen match-up (not including Gen’s nerfs). His cr.MP is going to be more annoying, but you can deal with it the same way you deal with Shoto’s cr.MK (which… isn’t very easy, but Gouken’s poke is worse). His st.LK is special cancelable, but Gen outranges it all the same. His cr.LP buff cannot be utilized unless it’s point blank range.
Gouken was always difficult to jump in when he had meter his AAs work well against Gen.
I agree with you that Gen’s FA reach should be nerfed since the visuals should match the hitbox better, but to do this alongside other neutral nerfs and hardly any buffs is insane. Gen wasn’t even good in 2012 and now he’s been nerfed. Because Xian was an excellent player that won evo with a big portion of luck and some really close matches. Once downloaded there is not much Gen can do against some characters, and now he will be severely crippled.
I think you put way too much credit in WDU. The damage is too small to be worth it. Unless you do it off of an unscaled Super (and how often is that?) you’re not going to notice too big of a difference from a follow-up Gekiro. Maybe U2 is the best to hitconfirm into from Super given its stun? How much scaling on the stun?
It’s going to do 100 less damage so 300, eh it’s fine. Ofcourse it’s less but not by terrible ammount. Again I might be a bit bias because I’m anxcious to try it out. U2 will also do 75% stun.
It does look like they did nerf him primarily adressing the complaints of whiners because they sam him winning evo. But its not character who won evo is what they don’t realise. It’s Xian who did it.
Yeah, if you put it in combo it’s most likely 60~70 dmg less (if you do poke xx hands xx super -> Ultra or even just focus crumple -> Ultra), and there will be even less difference if you put health scaling into account.
Double Ultra will be fine. I said I would use only one of two simply because I try to make sure to KO the opponent with near max damage when I do super -> Ultra, and that ~60 damage difference will actually net a win for me.
I heard that Gekiro trade -> Mantis Super will work, but Gekiro hit -> 2nd hit follow-up -> land -> Mantis Super will not work even if it connects visually. I think it has juggle potential of 1, which means it’ll land after air to air Crane j.HK, but will not land after air to air Crane j.HK>HK.
No option is perfect to be fair so it comes to preference. I havent used u2 in a ages though, because I always liked having super into ultra + a setup afterwards, now it’s not too big of a problem.
there was a post which confirmed that and crane st.HK AA trade into Mantis Super. Unless the post is bogus it will work. I think it should work if I translated the notes correctly.
well I call bull on the FA nerf and i cant believe you guys are saying its ok to nerf it, Fei has an almost IDENTICAL range on his focus, Vega as well, with Fei having rekka for getting in, so lets say you are low on life and want to get it please what do you do? crawl in mantis walk speed and hope not to get poked to death? walk in faster crane and do what? a mantis lv2 focus on block was Gen best ticket to get in and with both crane jump attacks nerfed good luck with that. I feel disappointed in anyone accepting the focus nerf PLUS the other stupid nerfs he got and yeah crMP x hands still wiffs
his AAs work well against Gen.