Lol, these changes are insane. Some are just pointless, like the mashable HK Gekiro. No idea what they are thinking with that. Others are just … cruel. Why nerf his FA? And hands at the same time? Gen will get raped by Chun-Li, Guile and other characters who will be insanely annoying this time around. Ultra will be less balanced than 2012, I’d say.
get vaseline for Gen is going to be analy raped
Yeah fellas. I’m Speechless…really don’t know what to say. Everyone has kinda already figured Gen out in 2012. With these nerfs to his game…I really don’t know how viable he is anymore.
Seems like he’s going to be somewhere in between useless as Super and as decent as 2012. EX Gekiro on block nerf is like…eeesh. Not to mention the hands nerf. And to think I was hoping they would
give him a frame or more recovery on that move…hell…Balrog did with his straight.
That makes two of my mains getting strange buffs but also important nerfs that could potentially make the character worse…although My DeeJay has slightly more useful buffs than Gen.
I guess my hopes of a solid character are going with my pocket Yang at the moment.
Are you fricken kidding me?! All this time I was thinking…why can’t I wake up focus dash Ibuki’s kunai vortex? Why am I getting hit literally every time I try to dodge that stupidity?
Hate that character…she would be handled if not for that stupid crap. Maybe I finally can beat her now. Lol.
Lurker/pocket Gen player here. Does anyone know whether or not air stance change (being able to do Crane Jump > Stance change > Mantis j.Mk) is going to be a thing in USF4? I heard rumors about it but didn’t see anything about it in the change lists so I’m gonna guess ‘no’.
Okay i came back to this game only recently and haven’t been here in a while but do people realy bitch because of few small nerfs? They increased hitbox of hands and nerfed recovery by 1 frame aren’t that huge, hitting him out of hands is hard enough so how does the hitbox increase hurt him? He doesn’t gain that much but hey he has some nice versitility with u2 actualy being sorta useful, being more consistent because of ex gekiro being hard knocdown instead of heavy one which works only particular members of the cast. He was good already so few of these nerfs not going to impact him too much. IMO he was too dependant on super into ulra (i still think he is) so they gave a little bit more damage to his bnb also i assume ex hands u2 will work on everyone now? So yeah he is more consistent now which I like.
People overreact to his nerfs. Even if it is overall nerf I don’t mind, what I like is that in possibly the final version he’s actualy going to be more consistent instead of relying on dumb oga unblockable and h. gekiro okizeme which as i mentioned worked only on few characters.
But hey it’s just my noob opinion. So don’t be too quick on your pitchforks, rather explain too me more in depth why you think some of these changes are such a big deal.
EDIT: Also does the less pushback on medium/light hands mean he could possibly connect with something else after them? Saw you sometime ago discussing that so wonered maybe someone knows.
Air stance change was a thing in the build I played, but in that build EX Gekiro had follow-ups on block, so I’m gonna have to assume it was a really old one.
EX hands into U2 already works on everyone actually.
Increasing hitbox of hands is nice. It’s just that 1f more recovery just made it more punishable by more casts’ Ultras on HIT if only 1st hit connects.
His BnB didn’t change. Unless you want to spend a bar you’ll usually go into the TC into Gekiro which doesn’t have an increased dmg. Unless of course you’re talking about the roll combo, then yes. He also has a better combo damage from Crane cr.LP.
Complaints are mainly from nerf of his hurtbox in his jumping normals (which actually isn’t that great right now), and nerf from his hitbox in his mantis focus attack (range decrease is huge in this case).
The problem doesn’t lie solely on his nerfs. It’s the mixture of his nerfs AND most other characters’ buffs.
His MP hands into follow-up is character specific but it certainly is possible. LP hands, maybe, but it pushes back further than MP hands.
His bnb didn’t change but they made hp do 150 + 50 damage and his target combo starts off with the first hit, slight increase in damage but decent enough.
I agree on hands nerf, kinda dumb but people tend to complain about how it’s free chip and so safe so im not surprised even though a bit upset about this.
To be completely fair his jump ins were kinda dumb especialy crane j. hp which was kinda ridiculous so i understand the nerf especialy since he has two jump arcs, but they couldve atleast buffed his ground game (well duh not nerfing hands would’ve helped here)
I see your points on how the nerfs outweight but overall I like him more this way, might sound dumb but I like that they’re trying to make something out of u2 and possibly create new possibilites instead of herpa derp super into ultra.
I can make a poorly educated assessment of the changes, everyone please feel free to chime in.
Mantis
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Fixed a problem where he would have 1 frame of invincibility during wakeup. Fixed an issue where it was hard to do his focus attack on wakeup as a reversal.
neutral -> Yay this is good! I was wondering why I had so much trouble doing wake-up focus backdashes. He was the only character that had this “bug/issue”, so I don’t think of this as a buff. -
Now has 950 stun instead of 900.
small buff -> This is also good. Slight buff, but I don’t think it was necessary. -
Close standing heavy punch now does 150+50 stun instead of 100+100.
small buff -> increase of 50 stun on his B&B. This could be useful, as it usually takes two BnBs + 1 hit for stun, this might reduce it to jsut two BnBs. -
Hurtbox on all of his focus attacks decreased.
big nerf -> One of his greatest tools in 2012 was the distance of his focus. This is a rough nerf, for people who liked this as an anti-projectile option. -
Light, Medium and Heavy Hyakurenko have a larger downwards hitbox. Now have 1 frame more recovery.
small nerf -> Not sure what this really addresses. I didn’t think the larger hitbox gives him any sort of buff. 1 frame extra recovery is a small nerf. -
Light and Medium Hyakurenko pushback on hit and block reduced.
neutral -> Depending on the actual pushback, this could be useful for linking a move after. I don’t use medium or light HHS, anyone else care to comment on viability? -
EX Hyakurenko pushback on hit and block reduced.
neutral -> I think sweep was the prefered option on EX HHS before, and don’t see that changing. -
Heavy Gekiro now gives soft knockdown. The button timing on his followup is now the same as his EX version was in AE v2012.
big nerf -> The timing is now mash? I suppose, but with its poor hitbox (upward instead of forward), it probably won’t see a lot of use. This is a huge loss for players who used heavy gekiro for knockdown setups. -
EX Gekiro is now -20 frames on block instead of -35. Now gives hard knockdown. Can no longer do followup if blocked. Timing on his followup has been changed to the same as his Heavy version was in AE v2012.
big nerf -> Lack of followup is pretty big. EX Gekiro was one of the few great wakeup options, with a follow-up to change the timing of the fall, in case it was blocked. Gen’s hard knockdown option, aside from Crane cr.lk and Mantis cr.hk, is now EX Gekiro costing a bar. -
Zanei can now be combo’d into against airborne opponents.
neutral -> I don’t see a lot of practical uses that haven’t already been explored before. -
Shitenketsu hitbox has been slightly increased forward. Now does 600 stun.
-> I’m not familiar with U2, so open to comments.
Crane
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Crouching light punch is now +5 on hit instead of +3.
small buff -> Gives Gen a better hit-confirm for j.mk cr.lp cr.lk, to charge for an Oga. I would use this often, as part of a cr.lk reset w/ Oga followup. -
Crouching heavy punch now sends opponents higher on counterhit.
neutral -> Inconsequential buff, unless I’m missing something on using the extra height on counterhit. -
Crouching heavy kick now has 24 frames of recovery instead of 29.
neutral -> Inconsequential buff. -
Angled jump heavy punch hurtbox increased downwards.
big nerf -> Ouch - I used jump HP as a way to get in against most projectile players, and would flat out beat any late anti-air attempt. This is a big nerf. -
Angled jump heavy kick hurtbox increased downwards.
big nerf -> Same as above - more trades against anti-air. -
Light and Medium Jyasen are now ±0 frames on block instead of -3.
small buff -> I think Medium rolling used to be punishable by SRKs on block. I guess this means this can be abused more often? I’ll say it’s a buff. -
Light, Medium, Heavy and EX Jasen now have 10 more damage on their last hit.
neutral -> This was a pretty infrequently used move, the extra 10 damage won’t factor into majority of matches. -
Teiga hitbox slightly reduced.
-> I’m not familiar with U2, so open to comments.
I’m seeing a lot of small/big nerfs, along with only a small handful of buffs. This is in addition to the nerf to wake-up mixups (as a result of delayed wakeup). I don’t think Gen was particularly top-tier in 2012 – I would have been perfectly happy with him unchanged. I thought the intent of USF4 was to make all lower tier characters viable, and not to nerf higher characters (who, really, are top tier because of wake-up oki anyway).
Thoughts from the gallery?
Oh, I think you misread then. It’s 150+50 in stun instead of 100+100. Damage is still the same (70+40).
I actually believe he’ll rely even more on his Super.
I think, the reason FADCs out of hands or rolls were used so much was because you can go into meterless hard knockdown afterwards with HK Gekiro. Now that it is gone, most likely ppl will save up for Super, which possibly got a juggle potential and is even better.
EX hands into U2 will… not be used that often methinks. Combination of delayed wake-up and the fact that you deal focus damage is not very appealing.
IMHO, Crane j.HP was worse than moves like Fei’s j.MP or Chun’s j.HK, which had ridiculous hitboxes, but the huge jump arc of Crane made up for it. But I’m pissed about j.HK nerf.
As a U2 Gen, I also like the fact that they made U2 better, but it would’ve been better if they kept his neutral. Re-calculating maximum focus range is going to be a pain; I’ll be whiffing 90% of those for the first few months after USF4 comes out lol
Oh my bad then on damage thing.
Still I think ultra combo double is decent on him because it gives him huge array of options, now he gets hard knocdown without the need of fadc and only for one bar (less damage but oh well it’s fine).
The damage on u2 is still bad being focus damage but i think it’ll be nice to use to stun people after a reset into a combo of tc > ex hands, after all 600 is no joke.
Overall I agree with you though. I guess I just like the fact that hes still only gonna be an underdog character and you’ll need quite a bit of knowledge and skill to use him.
600 stun will absolutely be really scary. With its kara-ability and extended horizontal hitbox, you can catch fireballs from a bit further away. I think it’ll be used better as a raw Ultra rather than a comboing one, since just doing TC -> hands -> U2 will make the Ultra do 360 stun instead of 600 due to scaling.
CH st.MP into U2 just got much scarier tho.
The buff I think worth mentioning is hands hitbox. With its hitbox expanded downwards, the 2nd hit will catch crouchers more consistently, which means consistent FADC timing. Not only that, crouchers have bigger hurtbox, so linking from MP hands may prove to be easier.
Anybody good at moding care to mod Black Toof’s PC Gen mod to the final changes?
Including the Focus on Wake Up and hands hitbox buff?(forget if this one was already done though).
So we can get use to the changes before Ultra?
Anyone, hint-hint Street 11, anyone? Lol.
So do you guys think Ultra combo double is actualy useful on him? Because I think that in certain matchups it could be a gamechanger. It’s 4 freakin ultras. Gosh come to think of it he has so many options with that, and while the ultras are weaker I think that it’s realy going to be useful and since he benefits from the double ultra thing that should be considered a buff too when you look at gen.
lol I’ll see if I can do it. I’m not really familiar with OnoEdit.
BlackToof already did hands hitbox buff. I think focus on wake-up is not something you can do in BCM files, and will have to go into exe itself.
I can do others.
And this is the main thing that gives me possible hope that the nerfs hopefully won’t be too big of an issue…cause basically he turns back into essentially his Alpha self (minus his Alpha chain combos), which is awesome and that’s something that I’ve been waiting for… a very looong time.
4 Ultras that can be used for multiple scenarios to help him with any matchup…regardless of the damage nerf to Ultra combo W.
Right on bro…I appreciate you at least looking into it. Thanks in advance! 
Which match ups will that be?
Most of the fireball ones, Because hell having that tool to punish fireballs aswell as super into ultra, air to air ultra, hands ultra is pretty damn good, gives you plenty of options. Besides I like the fact that you can choose which ultra you want after super dependant on how much stun your enemy has acumulated. So it gives a possibility to not only use super into u1 but on some occasions u2 to stun aswell.
I see your point sir
That ultra combo double is exactly while i’m optimistic about gen. Even if he isn’t as strong (which is still, debatable guys) he can possibly be more fun! well atleast for me. I didn’t like the unblockable shenaningans in the first place and he’s not the only one to loose that so i’m fine with that.