Unfortunately there is nothing godlike about Gen judging from that Xian vs Valmaster match. Xian seemed to try to go for lp hands a lot and it whiffed most of the time, resulting in a punish. And it still gets punished on hit. I am really mad right now. Gen wasn’t even near overpowered. They took away untechable knowdown on hk gekiro, a tool that was real fun to have, alonside nerfing hands. And his jumpins are worse now with nerfed crane. It just doesn’t feel fair at all … The buffs they list seem near irrelevant. Maybe cr lp in crane stance isn’t, but let’s face it, we want to use mantis up close most of the time anyway.
I was expecting U2 mantis to connect in the air, too. It’s still useless otherwise.
I think they are arguing that hands is armor breaking and thus withstands the threat of red focus, but that is a small comfort considering how expensive red focus is to use in the first place. People definitely won’t be spamming it to left and right.
I had problem with Infiltration’s Chun too. Not just because it was Infiltration, but it was very difficult to get in. Focusing Hazanshu was scary because of my knowledge of existance of EX version. Crane j.HP now trades with her AA sweep.
I did not play USF4 mod. Maybe I’ll try.
I think pushback of MP hands in USF4 is equal to pushback of LP hands in 2012. (LP hits further because gap between each hit is bigger, causing pushback between each hit). EX hands pushback didn’t decrease that much. Buff in the 2nd hit helps with fierce hands push, because unless you’re at the very absolute max range, the 2nd hit will still connect against crouching opponents.
Does anyone know if it is block stun or recovery that has been improved on Jyasen? I am so hoping for recovery as it will make it so much better from a pressure perspective, but I’m almost positive it is the block stun they have changed, unfortunately.
I guess you would’ve noticed if it was the recovery being buffed. Damn, that’s such a shame. What do you feel about Ultra Gen so far? By the looks of it I’d see he’s somewhat crippled. I really put mantis FA and untechable HK gekiro to good use, and I don’t know what changes will weigh up for that loss. Also hands nerf … Someone (you?) said hands loops on Dee Jay, has it been tested on any other characters, and is it very spacing dependent? Can you loop crmpxxhands, for instance? Though HK gekiro knockdown loss might not be too relevant now that wakeups can be delayed.
First impression upon trying USF4 mod:
Hands pushback is too small compared to the real one. It is impossible to link st.MK on Dudley after TC2 xx LP hands, and while it is possible after MP hands, hands afterward will connect only once. In mod, it connects twice. EX hands pushback is also too small. The amount it pushes back on hit got reduced by a tiny bit.
Not sure. He is not as bad as I expected, but Gen players will have a problem winning tournaments without alts. He will have some hellish MUs I assume.
From what I tested hand loops on standing Dudley, with TC2 xx MP hands.
HK Gekiro losing hard knockdown is still relevent. If you can react fast enough to “TECHNICAL” message from delayed wake-up, you can whiff Mantis st.LP to waste 11f (delayed wake-up makes the opponent wake up 11f slower) and go for the exact same setup.
Thanks for clarifying and congrats for your placement, street11. =)
For USFIV I think bad matchups will be harder, some good matchups won’t be as good anymore thanks to the lack of vortex, but Gen will still feel a bit more complete and solid overall, even if he falls a bit in tiers. Further improvements on Hands and less (average) charge time for Roll is all I’d ask for at this point.
Thanks. I feel like I could have beaten Wao but the name Wao just scared me and made me impatient in the end. Shouldn’t have felt that way. Then again, I only practiced a few hours for the past few weeks so it was nearly a miracle I got out of pools in the first place.
At least I got to talk to Infiltration a lot during SCR
Regarding match-ups, Honda will most likely stay the same since while he is more difficult to AA and has safer pokes (st.HK), Gen can finally punish his EX hands on block. Guile… I don’t want to talk about it anymore. Dee Jay will definitely be worse. Chun-li will be much worse. Vega might be even. He will still beat Hakan I think. It became really difficult to tell who he will beat because of all the system changes. Only time will tell I guess.
One thing that still fathoms me is the link between cr.LP -> st.HP. When I timed the link like I did in pools for 2012 (I didn’t miss the link except twice when I missed the plinking itself and st.MP came out), the opponent would always block. I had to press st.HP earlier. Is it possible that cr.LP has a faster recovery with less hitstun?
Punish Ex Headbutt on block, you mean?
I played an old build and cr.lp into s.hp was unchanged (and I can confirm that roll has more blockstun instead of better recovery). I think it’s very unlikely that they’ll mess around with it.
I don’t think he’ll have much of an advantageous matchups anymore but time will tell indeed.
I feel so so ooooo sad. oh well I got alot of stuff cooking for ultra that will boost Gen to say the least. after figuring out that if you break focus with overhead you can combo off it for roughly 300 damage meterless, I felt so good, now working on frame trap overhead lol!
Wow, it really does combo. Never knew. What’s weird is that I can only combo from st lp and not cr lk. Aren’t they both 3 frame startup?
Unfortunately the jab (or TC I guess) doesn’t reach from max range overhead so it’s even more situational than it sounds.
only standing jab is 3 frames on Gen normals, you can also use fierce hands after it to confirm your super, actually is +4 if you break focus with overhead.
Really? Wow, you can combo off of it even when it doesn’t break focus? I had no idea! Though yeah, for me one framers are usually a pain since I use pad.
I tried doing the overhead focus breaker into hands in training mode and only succeeded like once out of twenty times. I can do the st jab link pretty well, though. Good find!
Ah, okay. I figured counter hit gave +2 hitstun because regular overhead gives 1+. Too bad.
Maybe both hits of a 2-hit normal don’t count as counter, though (meaning in practise you need to do a meaty overhead second hit or break focus to make it a counter). I’m not really too informed on technical aspects like this one for my level.
Gen wasn’t even near overpowered. They took away untechable knowdown on hk gekiro, a tool that was real fun to have, alonside nerfing hands. And his jumpins are worse now with nerfed crane. It just doesn’t feel fair at all … The buffs they list seem near irrelevant. Maybe cr lp in crane stance isn’t, but let’s face it, we want to use mantis up close most of the time anyway.
