Yeah like I said I only zone at times. Haggar in anchor position is just asking to be zoned and I zone out anchor Wolverine’s a LOT. I just like to play differently than people expect. I remember a Zero who backed up at the beginning of a match with my Dante on point I guess bc he thought I was just gonna recklessly try to attack him. Nope. Zoned him for about 10 counts before he got tired of it, came towards me and got hit with short combo resulting in pretty fireworks from Zero’s death. Tragic.
there’s a million other ways to punish those assist but supers is the most obvious one without going into more advanced strategies
No shit. he has a vulnerable window when he goes into recovery. I want to know how many of those recovery frames happen on screen since the total recovery of the assist is 121 frames.
Dag bro, you made my salt look pretty watered down. lol
I actually tried to learn her buy my execution just ain’t good enough yet 
(It feels weird commenting on this thread after not playing “seriously” in more than a month, but, meh. I caught up with the posts and I’ve playing around with Thor at least, who is surprisingly fun, so fuck it. I get to destroy all your eyes again and that’s good enough for me.)
Heh. I come back and see that like the first 500 posts I have catch up on are just people talking about Phoenix still. Sigh. Yeah, regular Jean is kinda screwed. I hate to say, but DevilJin01 is pretty on the money when he says that (regular) Phoenix is a gimmick character designed to Dark “Win Button” Phoenix. It’s obvious to anyone, really, and I think it’s dumb as hell (just like how I think making Haggar an “assist character” is dumb as hell), but it’s probably not going to change (for UMvC3 at least). Just like how Shuma, Hsien-ko, Haggar and at least a couple of other people–fortunately NOT Chris, surprisingly–aren’t going to get any meaningful buffs to their game before November comes and steals all our money.
As such, I would like to take this time before descending again into the realm of ocular destruction to make an appeal to you, peeping toms at Capcom. I know you’re reading this and thus I will ask this: Why not just cut out regular Phoenix entirely and make it so that you pick Dark Phoenix from the get-go? Hell, she even has a slightly different theme already that you could use, so it’s not like you have to make her theme distinctly different for this “new” character:
[media=youtube]MGzhZZenwwY[/media]
If we’re going to do these UMvC3 changes and otherwise waste regular Phoenix’s potential, then I want to slam whole suns and jam whole solar systems to death for the sake of my hedonism from the get-go, goddamn it.
I’d say this is more due to the fact her X-Factor is one of the worst, if not the absolute worst, X-Factors in the vanilla at the moment more than the fact that she doesn’t have abusable shit in it. Hell, that time-slow super alone makes me extra-wary of her going into UMvC3 since her X-Factor won’t actually be shit there due to normalization, especially with the extreme likelihood of Aerial X-Factor leading to stupid things.
As for her being “the gold standard” when it comes to balance, meh. I still can’t agree with that. I suppose I can see more how people can say that now after another month, but she still has a bit too much dumb shit (that most people still aren’t really using because of :h: x infinity in disk mode) and is too independent of assists for me to ever get behind versus, say, X-23 or Dormammu being the most balanced character. If I may summon forth Duck Strong’s post from the future…:
…Then her not having any real weaknesses (low life and losing to Dante & Magneto don’t count) is what makes me unable to say she’s (the most) balanced. I could maybe see if she was balanced if her hurtbox wasn’t so insanely stupid due to her size, but that’s not ever going to change, so… [/three weeks after the fact]
activates Basilisk glare and looks straight into Sharingan
I don’t think we needed any more clues that you have no idea what you’re actually talking about (and/or that you are a troll), but I’m just going to quote this even if others rightly ignored it because it’s excellent proof.
By Orochi, I hate the dog/wolf/sun goddess, but I just want to make sweet hate to this post forever and forever. Adog.
Well done, sir.
I laughed so hard at this, especially I already find it kinda funny that a (non-rotting) freaking ghost/zombie/whatever has such low health–at least Nemesis is going to be a tank. You think she’d have higher health if Capcom made her move so damn slowly, but Morrigan of all people seems to have higher health than every other female outside of She-Hulk and Tron with their Austin Powers “Why won’t you die!?” health amounts.
Such is the curse of having a vagina in a Capcom game: even in (un)death you cannot escape its labia-destroying grip.
Maybe Morrigan took a page from The Host and the accumulation of all those STDs and other diseases made her immune to Toyotas and shit as well.
All of this. So much all of this. Alongside all the other throw stuff you were talking about (that I thought I quoted but am not going to bother re-quoting because this post is already going to be rather large).
I think I’d be content with above plus throws either taking two buttons or not being so easy to OS since right now they make the game even more dumbed down than XFC already does, arguably. Although, I’m sure a lot of that is due to the fact that the ease of mashing on OS throws make XFC even dumber than it already is, so it’s kinda cyclic, really.
looks at Taskmaster
Hell, I’d take a healing super over the random speed-up super that he doesn’t need and doesn’t really relate to anything in “canon”, random feral bullshit aside. It would be a welcome change considering he’ll actually have to take risks to get in now–as mentioned earlier, even if I dislike or even hate a character (and I really dislike Wolverine in every possible way, even going outside of the game), I don’t want them to be useless if they’re going take a spot.
Besides, didn’t he already have a healing move in Children of the Atom? It’s been forever since I played that game, but I’m pretty sure he did and then it just like…disappeared once the versus series proper started for now really reason. Maybe spasming his back that hard for Fatal Claw made his healing factor have to focus solely on throwing out his back as he flails like an idiot in mid-air.
Hey, now. Don’t knock rocks. You’ll create forest fires that way and then Smokey will track you down and maul your ass to death.
J/k.
But, seriously, I don’t think it’s a problem that 28 characters are lesser–10 is pretty decent already, especially compared to MvC2. That’s going to happen even if everyone were miraculously on the level of “A Tier” or whatever with the “No nerfs. No system changes. Buffs only. Final destination!” mentality. Someone (or, usually, multiple someones) are always going to be on the bottom in everything, especially the more options/characters you have–I’m pretty sure you (singular) realize this, so I’m just stating the terribly obvious for the people who somehow manage to miss this even though Ray Charles could see it.
The problem is more of that, of those 28 characters, about half of them are fine but could maybe use a small buff to make their “big rocks” work better and thus otherwise still outclassed (or take too much work for most people), but the other half–I’d say about 8, personally–got saddled with only big rocks and DCAU Killer Croc “intellect”/options, which is just…well…a terrible combination. (Or, as UMvC3 Dark Phoenix will hopefully say, a “turrible” combination.)
Why Crocs and Rocks Don’t Mix
Spoiler
[media=youtube]1VXpMIasxWU[/media]
Yeah, the lesser characters need buffs, obviously, but just saying “buff everyone!” is almost as bad as saying “nerf all the top tiers!” You can’t really treat everything so uniformly, especially if you’re going to have (the illusion of) so many options to begin with. For all the (amusing) bickering in this thread, I have yet to hear how you would make everyone “A Tier” viable or at least close to it, especially without making them even more uniform than they arguably are now, which is what creates nigh-obviation in some cases: Akuma vs. Ryu, Magneto vs. Iron Man, Wolverine vs. Jill, etc.
As I also said before, I’m not asking for anything super detailed if we’re going to talk about this/keep bringing it up–I know not everyone is a long-winded bastard like me. Just a sentence or two for the currently lesser characters would do fine since I’m honestly interested about how something like this would be accomplished, especially without nerfing some of higher characters that obviate some of the lower ones and keeping it “Mahvel, baby!” “cheap” without making it into Berserker Slash II: Herp-a-derp Bogaloo.
So, yeah, if any of you who are still around and still support the “buff everyone! No nerfs ever!” mentality are in the mood, then I, at least, am all ears.
Even weirder because Jiang Shi are supposed to be highly resilient, even invincible. But her low health stems from her former rushdown game (yes, I’m still going on about that).
Also, Woman Health. The curse of ≤ average health as a female character unless under rare circumstances (Tron, with Gustaff to help; Shulk; R. Mika; 3S Makoto, I think… who else?). How is that not a TvTrope yet?
They should just make characters so that they are strong within their archetype. Like Chris doesn’t need to be S+ tier but he needs to not be a sub par zoning character. Thor needs to not be a sub par grappling version of Magneto. Chun Li needs to not be a Magneto with no projectiles, a one way air dash and working really hard for damage that scales to shit and no combo game off throws without assists.
That is one of the big problems I have with SFIV. The damage you can do is too limited, the offense you can create is too limited, and characters are forced into too much limitation within their own archetype of character. Half the cast gets decent walk speed but the other half doesn’t. Half the cast gets good pokes but the other half doesn’t. Too much basic rudimentary things that characters need to be strong in SF that they are missing.
It’s like the difference between Strange not having an air dash and Arthur not having an air dash. When it comes to Vanilla MVC3 at least Arthur not having an air dash fucking raped his scare factor because he didn’t have teleport, didn’t have standard dash, didn’t have any type of movement to scare people. It’s nice to be able to a bunch of projectiles on screen but if you can’t move what’s the point? People talk about Strange having issues but it’s completely different when Strange will have the best teleport in the game, projectiles that set up his own just frame 50/50’s from anywhere on screen, and a level 1 super that shoots out a huge beam if your projectile makes contact with his body during the super. It’s pretty much why they’re supposedly buffing Arthur’s health to about 1,000,000 cuz he’s going to need it without all of those tools that normally dominate Marvel. Strange will be a bit more based around zone but that’s only because once he gets the projectiles on screen he’ll be able to 50/50 you all day while Arthur still can’t.
I never said that… 
Well,it would be a good idea that they change DP into a LV1 buff super just like DT to dante.
Arthur really need something to otg after and air throw,the bottle is just not fast enough.Without a proper air throw how would anyone play an anti air game with him?Which he’s probably the one that need an answer to jump ins more then anyone else.
At least make his air throw throw them back across the screen.
First off, Ammy tears Magnus up. His normals don’t compare and his zoning doesn’t affect her too much. In fact, recently Clockw0rk was zoning Magnus out (I didn’t think it was possible) with beads and Doom missiles. Dante is, at worst, a neutral match-up. His range is negated by the sword and while his normals have great range, they are slow.
While I meant what I said, the salt is starting to scour away my view. There will be matches where the air-dash is a liability instead of an asset. There will be moments where you accidentally press two buttons in the air and lose because you air-dashed. Aerial XF will help save the dog but I don’t want to blow XF because I accidentally pressed two buttons in the air. Her short hurtbox will be helpful in approaching through the ground but it doesn’t compare to being able to fly through the nonsense without a care. The nerf hurts for sure. How much so, Ammy players will have to see.
(Ammy saved Japan. She won’t hesitate to blow that shit up. Remember that Capcom. >.>)
That would be the Ultimate Salt playing against him, being sent back to square one.
Did you just honestly present an argument concerning dash input? That’s like saying, “Using a special is a liability because you can whiff it.”
By the way, I finally found the perfect strat against Amy while using Chris that works every time. For some stupid reason, whenever they call an assist, they like to press the advantage on the ground, so if you wait long enough until she’s in H-spam range, you can drop a landmine and kill her with any BnB you feel like. Cracks me up how predictable her players are.
I think what Yazumatto meant was a missed input of a push block.
Beads is her space control stance and Justin Wong has been using it for lame out for a long time.
Dante’s normals aren’t really THAT slow. 8 frames is the fastest a normal gets in a 3d fighter and even when it comes to a 2d game like this a sword normal that reaches near half the screen in 8 frames is nothing to sneeze at when it converts into TOD’s. Dante’s bigger issue with his normals is that the only scary low normal he has that can be rapid fired is his c.L which doesn’t have a ton of range or anti air as well as other c.L’s. The main benefit of his c.L is that it acts as a weapon based hit box (being a gun) so it will always win poking wars if you space the c.L outside of your vulnerable hit box.
When you’re outside of c.L range you have to do a lot of s.L swings cancelled into assists or bold cancels to stay safe. This isn’t a huge issue either way since most characters know they can’t fuck with you swinging shit at that range.
Everyone has that problem though.
Clock is about the only guy I see doing Ammy right. It really saddens me how many Ammy players use her to be an easy-in bot and never play her to her full (Should be nerfed) potential.
Taskmaster has both amazing crouch and standing normals, but unlike Dante, he lacks potential cross up and stupid fast high-low. The lack of crouch normals doesn’t hurt Dante’s game one bit. Hell, the odds are if he’s risking a crouch you’re stuck in a block string from an assist anyways.
Obligatory nerf Dante’s Jam Session assist. Shit sticks out way too long when they’re riding your balls already.
I do prefer Taskmaster a zoner then a fighter. He had all the angles he needed,and the arrow does good damage(which could also confirm into supers),his move was kinda of design that way.Since he had nearly no mixup potentials,but with awesome pokes like shield skills(could be made safe in to Aim master or assist),he could always catch approaches from foes that’s frustrated from projectiles.By the way he had a good air throw range.
That’s what I meant. Granted it’s a bad argument but it’s one that dogs have to worry about. Everyone either has a decently fast air dash or doesn’t have one for this issue to matter. Then there’s Hsien-Ko.
That’s exactly how I feel and he’s apparently dropping her for Vergil.
For what I said about Dante, I should have said “somewhat” slow normals.
This is why I treat Chris as a mobile Arthur: Solar Flare until they come to you. Predictable dogs = dead dogs. It gets to me why dog players don’t play the match-up.
I’ve messed around with Chris/Doom/Dormammu keepaway before. No one respects the landmines. When someone tells you to “suck it”, stay the fuck away from them. Also, BnBs into Magnum -> Lv 3 get me excited. I might actually want to revive this team. Time to practice FOOT-FOOT DIVE loops.
Well, he does have a good throwing arm.
What is the mechanic for Arthur’s armor breaking? Is it after a certain amount of damage in one combo like a dizzy meter in other games? I’ve never actually fully understood how the armor break works, but as long as that’s there, Arthur’s 1mil health still won’t mean as much.
And then there’s his lack of a ground dash. I mean, really? Like I said earlier, if it’s to keep him in line with his original games, he has a dash in his newer games, I believe.
Golden Armor breaks after the time runs out, causing unrecoverable knockdown. It’s actually a good thing… for people who like to use Arthur as the dummy in their combo video for extra style points.