-
I play with Dante and I believe he needs a huge Nerf. Its really ridiculous what u can do with him. Its stupid that I can put people in countless Guess and pretty much unblockable situations for days @ a time -.-
-
Logan…Nuff said
-
Tatsu assist
-
XFACTOR
Except no one is gonna risk throwing him and eating a dive kick.
At first I didnt have a problem with invulnerable assists…until I met a team that relied on Haggar more than Phoenix relies on her two partners. The guy stayed in the corner all day with MODOK and spammed while using Haggar to stop any attempts to hit him. If you beat MODOK, he had Spencer who just kept spamming his command grab to get any lucky throw into another two throws which builds hyper so he can use Bionic Arm just incase u jump over his grab. I beat him 5-6 but still that damn Haggar assist just ran the match. Im pretty sure “snap them in and kill them” is no longer a viable strategy…
Sent from your phone
That being said I still maintain Logan was no more than half of the equation. He had hands-down the best Dante I saw on stream. Honorable mention to Tron lvl 3, but really let’s not rewrite history and say PR Rog rode Wolverine all the way to 2nd place.
That’s part of it, but it’s really the only option available other than Dante’s Hammer. Getting a mix up on Wolverine requires either A) a snap in, or B) to have pressure on him. Option A is kind of a wha? since Wolverine players almost always put him on point, and Option B is nigh impossible unless you can trick him into doing something stupid.
You’re right, he rode Dante AND Wolverine. The tricky shit people do with Dante is FG 101, AKA mind games, AKA tricking your opponent. I know the execution is the fine line, but I’m tired of hearing people praise Dante like he’s some god when all they’re doing is what people have been doing since the original Street Fighter. Low Tier can do the exact same stuff but unlike Dante, it’s not safe on whiff and 9/10 times can’t be made safe on whiff, so you just have to think more about what you’re doing.
Dante’s devil trigger crossups are really wolverine levels of BS. Harder, but just as difficult to block imo. Rog exploited that tech like no one else at the time.
Off the top of my head here are some characters with mix up that makes Wolverine’s seem reasonable by comparison:
Viper: Self contained 10 string high low left right throw all of which will lead into great stupidity. I could go on all day about her, but you can find most of that in the Viper section already. She’s one of the reasons fuzzy guard is stupid.
Wesker: I feel every single thing Wolverine does, Wesker does better aside from XF 1 usage. His left right using a beam assist is equally ambiguous but automatically forces a low/command throw mix up afterward. His low/command throw mix up is something that’s ridiculously strong against any member of the cast who’s not Dante or to a lesser extent Viper. Along with all this Wesker’s gauge usage on his mix up is infinitely better than Wolverine, he never needs to use any gauge on the mix up section, only in damage/punishes.
Magneto: Ambiguous left rights with cross up jump S and cross up jump C, quick transition into low/throw, best air throw in the game, exceptionally good at dealing with advance guarding. People need to stop relying on just his tri-jump high low mix up as he has a lot of other options for instilling fear in his enemies. Another reason fuzzy guard is stupid.
Dante: Thanks to hit boxes almost entirely his left right game is amazing and the fact that with his amazing tools he can solo set up a lot of very ambiguous and safe things is just silly, it’s incredibly fortunate that his ground and super jump throws are ass or else he would be even sillier. The fact that he can do air pressure into bait into hammer or vortex is another mix up liberty that not a lot of characters have.
Zero: Solo unblockables, left rights that are getting even more ridiculous in ultimate now that he can cancel command dash into buster, and buster cancels to keep normals either air or low at exceptionally weird intervals is very strong. Likely the character that benefits from having assists the most in the game.
Phoenix: TK shot, flight, teleport ambiguous high low safe on block. Ambiguous left right, set ups. Instant overhead without fuzzy guard into combo solo. Good solo combos off of throws etc. Very few Phoenixes utilize her full mix up when they can chip half life with 2AAAAAAAA xx 236A, 623A etc.
Amaterasu: Slow super lets her have absolute punishment over chicken blocking attempts as people take forever to get off the ground and will eat lows. Fastest high low in the game from ground starting position, it all leads into damage albeit not as much as the rest of these characters.
Everything Wolverine does well is often done better by a solid teleporter with a beam backing them up, if they have scary instant overheads even better.
Wolverine just takes the least effort. Can’t blame the players though. What’s the point in learning esoteric setups shit when it’s gonna be obsolete in 4 months when you can pick up wolvie/wesker and wreck shop with some basic yet incredibly effective mix ups
Not to mention the damage he does and the meter he builds. I really do wish we’d take into consider execution when it comes to tier listing. I’ve opened up on so many Vipers, Magnetos, Weskers, and Dantes thanks to them whiffing an input from their nerves being racked, but I’ve never opened up a Wolverine without feeling a chill running up my spine praying he does what I think he’s going to do without doing whatever I don’t want him to do to make it safe.
Wolverine is like Phoenix in a sense; he adds a whole new meta-game to MvC3 that really makes you sweat. Everyone else feels manageable, if more, annoying. Magneto dies to accidental chip, Zero users tend to overplay their safe-limitations, Dante is… Dante, Wesker does the same shit Zero users do except lives through it once, Viper just effs up her inputs and whiffs all the time, the list goes on.
Why learn setups and chars that you have fun with and will ultimately benefit you in ultimate when you can just pick wolvie, IMEANITSMAKINGSENSEIDODEESETINGS
Problem with your list tho is, maybe barring phoenix, beserker slash is better than all that hitting from the neutral game because of the invinc, auto correcting instant attack, auto spacing safely on block, the distance & speed the attack goes in an instant, the ability to xx the slash into a safe super (giving more free pressure if blocked and a mixup and way in without the need for an assist) and the huge ass hitbox itself with its juggling/launching ability (chicken blocking actually makes the attack stronger cuz of the free juggle or if you did manage to block you are at extra disadv since you are a sitting duck falling to the ground, this means jumping or sj’ing to avoid the mixup it extra risky and difficult!). Couple that with the dive kick, speed up super giving almost unstoppable attacking power whilst activated, hands down the best insta overheads in the game (stand blocking an assist against wolvie is more or less a death sentence thx to fuzzy guard), the incredible speed and normals of the char in general, you got yourself a char unparalleled in offensive power bar maybe phoenix.
I hope Wolverine can move and call assists during Swiss Cheese.
Can you imagine Wolverine doing non-stop swiss cheese while slowly gliding towards you and repeatedly calling the best assist in the game?
SWISSSTAYOUTOFMYWAYSWISSSTAYOUTOFMYWAY…the fuck does he even say when he’s calling assist? it sounds like “stay out of my way”
Candeisis, everything you said applies equally to Wesker with EM disruptor assist except you don’t get a free kill on him for X-factoring if he uses air gun (dive kick) at you.
Thats not true weskers teleports dont go as far as b slash, dont have an inbuilt auto correcting attack, they are punishable on reaction if not covered by assist, they cant be made safe with a super that then gives free follow up pressure and mixups. Good wolvies wont rly dive kick w/o assist cover or out of speed up, so its kinda moot its not rly a good comparison anyways, by the same token wesker can die having any of his air attacks xf out of air teleport (for that matter a wesker jumping f with a gun can die the same way too), so thats more just a general game mechanic instead of a isolated wolvie deficiency. Hell you can basically throw punish any wolvie dive kick that you block above ur shins but in practice it doesnt rly happen all that often, you’ll be lucky to even get one opportunity at all against a solid wolvie, and factoring in the speed and chaos of the game you more than likely wont get to capitalize
Wolverine should have the ability to heal himself. It would be more true to his character.
Come on Capcom do it for the lolz
If you’re doing full screen Berserker slash then you’re doing it wrong, his invincibility is not start to finish and that’s the situation where most people can set up option selects that beat either side easily most notably things like reverb shock, focus attack, Zero jump C etc. The inbuilt auto correcting attack is the EM disruptor which is exactly why I specified. Agreed that good Wolverines rarely dive kick when they don’t have something to make sure it doesn’t get Wolverine killed. X-factoring out of Wesker’s air attacks are really risky unless he hits you super high in the air as most of the time he can land and block while Dive kick and the like has recovery on the ground, jumping gun on the other hand has built in teleports to prevent that from being an issue. The reason it’s more of an issue for Wolverine is Dive kick’s recovery is not cancelled by touching the ground like most of the other air moves in the game, it has a set recovery once it touches the ground.
Dont get why you’re comparing wesker + beam assist vs solo wolvie, wolvie can use assists as well with even better utility. Sure a few things can beat out b slash, but ur more or less guessing with all those options except for maybe viper focus (which isnt a free punish everytime anyways) and its also assuming he doesnt have assist cover. Technically you can beat any b slash with a normal that will reach if you press the button in time to beat its startup, but its not rly possible to react in time, so if ppl cant beat it pressing one button on reaction, how will those other slower options be any better. The onus is still on your side to basically guess, which is to wolvies adv obv
I never said that Wolvie doesn’t force you to guess in certain situations excluding Viper I was just saying he doesn’t force you to guess more than Wesker, I think Wesker backed by Magneto is harder to block than Wolverine backed by Akuma. Reacting to B-slash is only if you have options that will bet both sides like Viper/Dante, you can’t react to trying to get a hit to come out the right way consistently to my knowledge. The same can be said for teleport + EM disruptor but it can be set up from a zoning game.
It all comes back to Viper, hahahahaha. I just wish all this awesome didn’t only exist in theory fighter.
Thank god haggar’s lariat is getting nerfed. Freakin dante and wesker work so well with that assists. Hell everyone works well with haggar. That freakin assists just stays out there and hits 180. Allows for multiple mix ups because of duration. Only weakness is its hitbox.