I just sat down to wade through this thread on this dull, rainy monday and I’m honestly aghast at all the Dante/Wesker hate.
If you ask me, the A tier (Tasky, Dante, Wesker, Ammy, Maggy et al) are about as strong as the rest of the cast should be and don’t need any big nerfs. I’m sorry if your Hsien Ko, Chris, Arthur’s struggle with the A tier, but you should be asking for those guys to be buffed into A tier rather than fucking over the characters that can actually get shit done. The problem lies with Morrigan, Thor, and friends being mediocre, not with Dante and friends being good. In an OTT fighter like Marvel everyone should feel top, not mid like in Bore Fighter 4.
The only characters that needed big nerfs imo are Wolvie and Phoenix who were clearly on another level from the rest of the top tier. Wesker only needed minor health/airthrow nerfs, Dante more hit stun/less invul on hammer etc, but otherwise they’re a good example of how strong the average MVC3 character should be and by the sounds of things Capcom have done pretty much that.
I do, however, heavily disagree with Dante getting meter/ triple jump in DT. That’s is so damn unnecessary. I also feel really conflicted about lowering his style cancel execution. I feel his execution was a big factor in balancing him and making that easier not only makes him more solid than he needed to be. but takes away what was so satisfying in seeing those long ass combos pulled off under pressure.
Dr Doom, who was already borderline A tier/top of the mid tier, getting just about everything improved is also pretty bananas.
The suggestion that Wesker’s gun shot be rdp :s: makes a lot of sense to me as well.
You didn’t say anything I disagree with, but this is gonna be like the 4th time someone brought that issue back up, which doesn’t help shit regarding anyone’s opinion. That and it’s off topic. It’s ironic I would say this since I was directly involved the first time.
Edit: Should add something in on topic. Yay for slower disruptah, boo for Iron Man’s loss of Double Jump and boo for his weird messy air dash now.
To make an analogy for what I was saying before, I think the best solution for fighting game balance is basically letting everyone bring an actual gun to a gun fight, rather than a knife. Maybe even a few people with multiple guns.
The way Marvel is now 10 characters got a gun and the others just throw around big rocks.
You say this like it’s some self-evident truth. Would you really want to play a game where everyone is as good as Wolverine? I know that’s not quite what you’re suggesting, but making everyone “good” is a slippery slope. How good is good enough? How good is too good?
A character should have well defined shortcomings if they don’t fall into the jack of all trades archetype. Playing around a character’s weaknesses should be just as much a consideration as playing to his strengths. When there is nothing of the sort to worry about, the game becomes more shallow.
For all the people who can’t decide on shuma and Jill, shuma is probably slightly better than arthur and hsienko and jill is around C maybe B. Assists really need their own tier. It’s rly annoying how people put haggar at the bottom like he is played to be on point.
X-factor. I’ve lost so many times on a laggy connection to level 3 xfactor it’s not even funny. Then the messages I get afterwards like, LOL, or SCRUB because someone beats my entire team with x factor makes me want to blow up a kindergarten.
That’s a false dichotomy. It’s possible to make a game where every character feels strong without decreeing that NOTHING IS ALLOWED TO BE MADE WEAKER, EVER as some kind of divine law.
Well designed characters have strengths and weaknesses to which they play. Making a cast of 50 Magnetos who are godlike at everything removes the weight of your team choice, because triple random will be basically just as good at rushdown, zoning, or whatever you want to do.
I don’t think that is what he is aiming for though. And I sure know that isn’t what I am aiming for when I say buffs over nerfs.
Lets say we start with what was said earlier, everyone should be where the current A tier is now.
That isn’t saying everyone needs to be a jack of all trades with very few and very shallow weaknesses, though maybe one or two more of the cast could be (that would be the S-tier of the game resulting after doing ones best to even out the playing field). The idea is that no one is anywhere close to shit. You wouldn’t have any characters in Hsien Ko Tier, or characters like Haggar/Tron where they are basically used only for their assist (not saying that’s all they’re good for, but right now, and especially in ultimate, that basically is pretty close to the reality). Everyone would be a viable choice in a competitive enviorment, provided you’re willing to put in the work to get around their weaknesses.
The idea of buffing everyone to mid-tier/high-tier would just revolve around nixing the problems that make these characters unplayable competitively, or make them nothing more than an inferior copy of someone else. And, with the exceptions of Vanilla Phoenix, Wolverine, and Wesker, this can be accomplished for MvC3 without nerfing anyone significantly. Maybe you good do little things that go a long way like trimming Dante’s cr.L and s.H hitboxes (or actually, pretty much everything that isn’t s.L, haha), tone down Akuma’s Tastu, trade damage for health on Sentinel, things like that.
But we really, really don’t need to be nerfing characters down by tier(s). That’s just dumb. So I’ll say it again.
Some people would prefer that 8 characters get nerfed. I would prefer 30 get buffed and the next 12 are solid (not even close to worried with what I’ve seen of Firebrand, Strange, and Nemesis in this department). Neither group will probably get their wish, because… well because Capcom.
I think the real confusion here is thinking that Dante and Magneto are even close to A-tier.
But, again, “buffs over nerfs” is a mindset that results in an incohesive design, and besides that, is really unlikely to actually get you a balanced game.