i kinda wish they would go the all or nothing route with air throws, either everyone can combo after, or no one can (probably the former, albeit with massive damage/meter scaling or something) maybe im just bitter because i must land at least 5+airthrows per match with spidey and cant do jack after any of them.
yea but then Ryu would be behind bars on assault charges. Hes too noble to bust himself outta there either or disregard law enforcement.
hed just be all ‘This is what i need right now, it is the best for all of us.’
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I don’t know how you would figure that chicken guarding will suddenly become unstoppable with the changes I suggested. You would still be able to hit them low during prejump and air throws would still work whereas pushblocking would still be a viable option for the defender. What I’m not fond of is landing a 1 frame airthrow 1 inch off the ground into a full combo. It’s a lazy out, period.
I see no reason why 2 button throws couldn’t work either. I’ve mentioned before, but none of the :s: + :atk: moves have different variations depending on the button you press. Why not, for example, just relegate those to :s:+:h: (and :s:+:m:) and assign :s:+:l: to activate throws? You could also give them a couple of active frames so it would still be easy to catch someone with them while jumping away, the only difference would be that you’re committing to the throw attempt. Normally I’m 100% fine with 1 frame, no whiff throws (ST is my favorite game), but if they lead to 100% damage it becomes a bit much. You shouldn’t have it both ways. Either leave them as they are, but adjust the reward for landing them, or weaken them some other way.
And not that it should matter, but yes, my team does benefit immensely from this as well. Doesn’t change my opinion on it though. Starting with 1/2 a bar, Doom can kill anyone in the game off an airthrow with my team. Do I abuse it? Of course. Do I think it adds depth to the game? Not really, I think it’s actually quite stupid.
Big lol at all the characters you mentioned. I dabble in all of them (though most bore me to tears) and I think they all benefit far too much from it.
OS tri-jumps from Magneto into accidental throw into DHC glitch from anywhere on screen? stupid
OS gun from Wesker into air-throw into 50/50 mixup stupidity? stupid
OS sneakers from She-Hulk 1 inch of the ground? Slightly less stupid, but still stupid.
OS Ammy j:h:
OS divekick from Wolverine landed while you desperately try to get away from his stupid coin-flip left right Berserker Slash xx Berserker Rage => instant overhead into death stupidity is not what I consider cool or deep gameplay.
OS air :h: Sword from Zero, Task or box jumping Dante? Stupid…and you’re probably dead.
Couple these situations with the cover of invincible assists and shit gets dumb fast.
I’m not suggesting everyone should play shit tier characters. I’m suggesting the game would be better if you needed to use a modicum of discrimination in your approach. Some characters can just auto-pilot the same safe patterns over and over until they get one hit, or until they land an air throw.
Sure, some of these changes might make runaway a little stronger (not such a bad thing imo), so they may need to tweak things like the ability to build meter by whiffing (although an overall reduction to meter gain would be a welcome change), but I still maintain that rush down is only interesting if you need to think about it a little bit. That’s just not the case in MvC3 right now.
I mean, MvC3 is fun and all, and there’s potential for a decent game here, but they need to stop making stupid compromises to appeal to the casuals. As is, it’s a pretty freakin’ bad game and I couldn’t see it surviving another year if it wasn’t getting a much needed update. We’ll just have to wait and see what not-so-obvious issues they decide address.
I agree with you on all aspects on this but like I said, if the nerf is permanent, Ammy players will just have to avoid using the air-dash against anyone with a beam hyper. I’ve already found out ways to move in the air without air-dashing that are relatively safe (also: ways to bait Akuma and Dormammu into wasting meter). Also, at the cost of my win-rate, I don’t block when I air-dash now to practice for UMvC3. I’ve told people this when I play casually and surprisingly, I haven’t gotten blown up as much as I thought I would. Cancelling the dash with j.H still dominates. Ammy still counterpicks ~80% of the cast without air-dash guard.
And I’m surprised that you, a person with a Hsien-Ko avatar, say that Ammy’s air-dash is the most conspicuous in the game.
They only cut air-dash guarding. Last I checked, you can still cancel the dash with an attack.
I also got around to testing Ammy’s Solar Flare. Here are the non-hyper projectiles/beams that Solar Flare DOESN’T stop.
Spoiler
Expecting a list? Sorry to disappoint. It stops anything with a beam/projectile value, regardless of which direction you’re facing.
While I’m talking about counters, not sure if people know this or not but Wesker, Taskmaster and Deadpool can counter Lv.3 Hypers that use a physical hit to initiate the cinematic with their counter hypers. It’s the ultimate salt. I <3 counters.
I agree that I’m just gonna have to deal with it if they don’t reverse the nerf, but I’m just stating the reasons why I think it isn’t well thought out. You say you’ve figured out some ways to bait Akuma and Dorm and I’d like to know how myself because I’ve played hundreds of matches against those two and baiting without some sort of insanely fast assist(like Dark Harmonizer) usually doesn’t work against those two unless you are some sort of psychic beam blocking machine. What are these mystery baiting methods of yours?
Not being cheeky, I’m honestly curious.
Hsien-Ko’s dash is more of an air fart. Most people probably think she is just falling out of the sky than dashing. It is nothing compared to Ammy’s giant flowers and stage-length vines.
This post makes so much sense. Airthrows are just dumb in this game. 1 frame throws with I don’t know how small tech window is just silly, especially when it leads to a dead character.
Where’s Dante?
I don’t even understand what the first paragraph is trying to say. I don’t see how increasing the minimum height on air throws hurts any of the things you mentioned in the first paragraph. The only difference is now, you’ll have to space your airthrows well instead of grabbing people’s limbs from a mile away. Less derp, smarter thinking, better game.
Two buttons to get rid of the stupid air throw option selects. Now you won’t get a lucky airthrow when you did airdash forward J.H., or airdash downback J.H.
The importance of airthrows staying the way they are? Getting OS throws and random throws and getting a kill for that? I don’t think anyone wants airthrows to stay the way they are.
Also I don’t know why you guys think he’s salty. Just because someone wants a mechanic/character to be balanced doesn’t mean he’s salty, or lost to said character. Some people just want a, yknow, relatively balanced game. It sounds more like you guys just want your characters to stay overpowered and don’t care about the balance in this game.
Not really. In a game where left/right mixups are more important than high low and where a lot of characters have self gatling <5 frame C.Ls and jump start up frames are 5, chicken blocking is pretty risky.
Something like two button grabs across the board would kill those option selects and stuff like Ammy’s air dash/H throw wouldn’t be a big deal anymore. It’d also nerf zero appropriately. A lot of people would have to play their characters with some more thought. I’d also be completely for an increase to the minimum height.
I believe it would be better. Low tier might actually have a theoretical chance if high tier had to think about getting in rather than harass so much they eventually break their opponent and ToD them.
I propose that Weskers gunshot be a reverse fireball motion with S button and to teleport after be a reverse Dragon punch followed by a Spd motion and the appropriate button to link the two. Also think wolverines dive kick should be a reverse Dp motion mid air. After even more thought Berderper Slabsh should have a 100 frame start up and a 250 frame recovery. Lastly whenever you land a combo on Dante he should lose his sword until he picks it up. If you hit it with a projectile it should shatter leaving him defenseless. That is all.
No but seriously Duck Strong I really like the idea for throws in general. Thor and Haggar both have whiff animations on their command grabs can you imagine how broken they would be without said animations?
The nerf isn’t well thought out. Then again (correct me if I’m wrong), characters can’t block during an air-dash anyway, UMvC3 or otherwise. It’s just that other air-dashes are infinitely faster.
With the sword, you can do air charged df. H xx Head Charge L/M x 3. You can even cancel the air-dash into a Head Charge. It depends on the player as well. Dormammu’s Chaotic Flame is easier to bait because of Dormammu players are confident that the beam’s size will get you faster than you can react. Likewise, it’s harder to avoid due to the beam’s size. Akuma’s are usually last and will take any opportunity to peg you with XF3 beam. MarlinPie did this in a FT5 video where he had Ammy anchoring against 2 characters including an Akuma. Clockw0rk used this method of moving in his earlier WNF’s.
It takes some time to figure out when you should cancel the dive-kick/sword for a convincing fake but just doing the dive-kick can evoke a reaction. I don’t think I need to remind you but don’t do this against Ryu.
When he’s too low to rainstorm, he can OTG with twister(can’t really get a decent combo without meter or XF there though) . But situations he can’t rainstorm are extremely rare, to the point where i’m not even sure they exist.
Sounds fun. I wanna see a Agni and Rudra stance with a new moveset. Then when that breaks, a Nevan one. Then a Beowulf, and a Cerberus one. Oh wait, we just made him 100x better than he already is
That’s why I inquired about non normal jump status where he can’t summon assists, not the height issue as when it’s low it’s still functional, just about when in SJ state and thus unable to call out anyone to help him follow up rain storm. Magneto and Viper get to air to air throw in SJ state into their full damage situations and can also do so solo from every situation. Dante’s incredibly stupid in so many other ways though, like the fact that off of Zero’s level 3 buster he can hard tag in for a full combo, what an intelligently designed character!
Quit trying to nerf Wesker. It took me twenty whole seconds to get that gun teleport combo down and if all that hard work went down the drain I’d actually have to play to win. That’s freaking absurd!
On a serious note: I’d rather Wesker’s teleport involve a third input, a :l:, , and :h: version which can be equally punished if he guesses incorrectly. :l: would allow him to dash back to the ground with minor recovery frames that are cancelable for more technical play. would allow him to counter which could lead into a self-OTG combo. And :h: would perform a lovely 180 attack that spreads parallel to the ground (Comboable afterwards) with a long enough animation and hit stun to combo with after and short enough block stun for anyone with half a brain to react to.
My reason for that is… With more difficult execution, he’ll just be pistoling and teleporting less, that’s all. It doesn’t hurt his normals, it doesn’t damage his full screen potential, and it doesn’t open him up to punishment.
I still don’t like the height restriction on air throws. For the person asking how that nerfs rushdown, basically you’re giving the other guy more time to react to you jumping for the air-to-air throw.
The rest, I guess you’re right and I was dumb. I don’t dislike the throw system as it is, but not because of the throws properties per se, but because of how easy it is to follow them up with something after the hard knockdown. For example, Magneto MAYBE shouldn’t be getting mid screen combos into DHC glitch from air throws, just saying. Same thing for Wesker, same thing for Taskmaster and specially Wolverine. In the corner though, fair game.
One thing that’s really dumb is how Strange’s counter is some super simple input, and Wesker/Magneto have to RDP and DP… I mean, the time it takes you to input one of these kind of defeats the purpose of a counter. They’re relatively useless.
This is a solid idea that I used to apply in my earlier days, actually. I haven’t applied it much since then because I’ve gotten so good at killing with Ammy that I don’t need to play it safe. Baiting the supers has always been easy with Morrigan’s Dark Harmonizer which gave me plenty of time to do my thing.
May have to start practicing that again…
Welcome to my world, the world where you character doesn’t always have the best options. Hsien-Ko had to deal with a seven frame beam with crazy fast recovery while her gong had 12+ frames and 2xqcb motions. Sentinel’s button press beams were ass too.
Just joking with ya. A lot of people are going to feel the burn come November when their shortcuts are gone and they just can’t derp it up as well with their characters as they used to.
Edit: I just noticed your team, Kanta. I think my Blood Pressure just went up because of that alone lol!
Even with a qcb, the only time I can reliably counter anyone with Taskmaster is when I know they’re mashing 2L after Shield Skills. Other than that, you’d be lucky to land a counter against an air attack with an Akuma Tatsu’ing all over your face.
, and :h: version which can be equally punished if he guesses incorrectly. :l: would allow him to dash back to the ground with minor recovery frames that are cancelable for more technical play.