Double shame on you. She definitely needed to be nerfed but they just beat this bitch with the nerf bat then gave her a hysterectomy.
No they didn’t. DP will still be as stupid as she ever was if these are the only changes. DP is still plenty retarded even if she never leaves the ground because traps and feather teleport mixups are more than enough for her. What this did was make it so that normal Phoenix doesn’t have the ability to neutralize half the cast by SHOT SHOT fly SHOT SHOT and make the most ridiculously easy and effective keepaway game in the world. Considering how stupid DP is, normal Phoenix should never have been as ridiculously able as she is.
Sensible Phoenix Nerf. Remove tracking from H Shot. Maintains 3 air actions. Remove all feathers from DP attacks. Remove 20% damage bonus from DP mode. Leave her health where it was. What this would have created was a Good character that took a lot of skill to actually play who still died to any characters standard BnB combo. What we got was a character who went from Op to barely playable.
Air actions and health are still dumbest places to start with considering the goal is actually still to tone down Dark Phoenix, and not Phoenix. Starting with Dark Phoenix’s 20% damage boost makes the most sense. I honestly wonder if people realize the full benefits of that transformation:
20% Bonus Damage
"Feathers" on all normals but S and jS at 24k damage each, special move scaling used
Minimum damage scaling up to 30%/30%/50% from 10%/10%/35%
Doubled Fireballs on TK Shots
Larger hitbox on Phoenix Rage
Larger hitbox on TK Trap L, M and H
Larger “trigger” box on TK Trap L and M
Wall Bounce on TK Trap M and H
Knockdown on TK Trap L
Start up and active frames on s.L changed to 4 and 4 from 5 and 3 respectively, along with 5 more frames of hitstun and 3 more frames of block stun
Start up on Stand H down to 10 from 11, +4 frames of hit stun and +2 frames of block stun
Start up of c.L down to 3 from 4 +4 frames of hitstun and +2 frames of block stun
Start up of j.M down to 8 from 9
Start up of f+H down to 14 from 15, +4 frames of hitstun, +2 frames of blockstun
Start up of j.f+H down to 14 from 15
TK Shot L +4 frames of hitstun, +3 frames of block stun
TK Shot M +4 frames of hitstun, +3 frames of block stun
TK Shot H +4 frames of hitstun, +4 frames of block stun
X-factor bonus to 135%/170%/200% damage from 120%/135%/150%
And honestly, I think I still left a few things off.
Giving the excuse that TK shot x2 flight TK shot x2 needed toned down because ~80% of the cast couldn’t deal with it doesn’t fly when Trish and Morrigan can do much the same thing (they’re merely missing the teleport option, since they can easily cover angles Phoenix needs the tracking Shot to deal with) and are getting buffs, there’s quite a few other things not really being dealt with that “~80%” of the cast can’t deal with, and Strider’s Vajira assist is a direct 1 button counter to do that. Needing to switch your team up for some match ups is not a bad thing. Things on that giant list should be on the change block long before reducing air actions (which just forces her to rely on her slow flight mode) or further reducing her health.
My dream Dark Phoenix balancing:
- Reduce existance time for heavy TK shots
- Allow TK shots to be reflectable by Hsien-Ko’s gong (biased, sue me!)
- Jab attacks no longer produce feathers.
Despite how much I hate her, a single air action seems crippling and a health nerf just seems pointless since she already died to the most basic ABC combos.
Gong reflects way too little, in my opinion. With all of the keepaway/zoning buffs coming up, I’d be surprised if it doesn’t reflect much more. Would put some pressure on the offender and make them think twice about what to shoot and when to use it. I hate those damn things exploding on me, anyway.
Gong can’t even decide if it wants to reflect Trish’s low voltage attacks. It’ll bounce the jab version, but any other version is just negated, which is pointless since most Trish players use the heavy version. Argh! Why won’t you just work, stupid gong! Ultimate Salt indeed!
I actually kind of hope phoenix is bad, so I can see the team and mental adjustments by good phoenix players like filipino champ and clockwork. I’ve always wanted to see how players like clockwork would play without phoenix after watching clockwork at WNF using as much meter as he wanted. I feel like the players who actually really like playing phoenix, will continue to play her. I believe she can still do her teleport shenanigans by activating flight for an additional air action.
Then there’s Samurai Edge. And we all know what happens there.
Now, is anyone actually salty over Phoenix getting nerfed? Sure, we can agree or disagree whether the nerfs she’s getting are justified/fair, but is there anyone who is actually sad for her? I want to know, because she seems like the only character without any real loyalty or attachment, at least from what I’ve seen.
Why pick her anymore? I mean you can pick another character with every option she had and then some minus the transformation of course.
Not actually Sad as much as I am pissed off. My day one team was Thor/Phoenix/Dormammu then I found out how cheap phoenix could be online and I stopped picking her online until I found out how serious her rushdown was when aided by Two or more air teleports and a good assist. (No Salty ball spam here) I picked phoenix day 1 because she is one of my favorite marvel characters and I picked thor because he is my favorite marvel Hero period. I still main Thor currently, Even I said phoenix needed to be nerfed but not into obscurity. There were much better fixes than the route capcom took and nerfing her health is just … lol worthy.
Edited to add. Even if Nova is considered ass tier on Day one he will be captain of his team and I will make it work same as I did with Thor. Character loyalties are really bad for my win ratio.
A huge portion of us Phoenix players will simply switch to Strange if he hits retail in anything like his current form. Basically, trading an air dash and overpowered gimmick for a real character. I’m looking forward to it, Stephen finally making the Vs series is hype as fuck as it is.
Jean is one of my top 5 favorite Marvel characters (Magik, Havok, Jean, Dr Strange, Rachel Summers) and is voiced by my favorite voice actress, so yeah, I’ll be sad if/when she’s a bigger gamble than she’s worth. Dark Phoenix needed toned down hard, but it should have been done in ways that left Phoenix viable still.
Sometimes, we go full random around here just to get a feel for characters we don’t usually pick. Hsien-Ko is the “RNG hates me” character. There’s absolutely nothing you can do with her that you couldn’t do better with someone else.
I just think most phoenix players will start using all her abillities rather then just using spam slow fireballs with the action nerf, i think if people pick her up and change how they play she will at least be okay. The only characters im worried about are the low tier, hopefully they go up too, if all the mids get buffs too then were gonna have a very fun game here XD
Honestly considering how much of an afterthought Hsien-Ko appears to be, I wouldn’t be surprised if all of the new characters projectiles outright beat gong or at the very least turned out to be unreflectable.
Wrong sir. She gets bodied like no one else.
Getting bodied isn’t very active. You do not actively work at getting bodied. It is a natural process that occurs when you get touched with something in Marvel.
Why is it when you mention jean the automatic conclusion is that everyone who plays her spams Salty balls? Believe it or not a lot of people do not.
Personally, Hsien-Ko’s sloppy speed and air-dash is what shits out everything else that she has to be a potential character in MvC3.
It makes her a character whose health drops out fast, and her main moves and specials uneffective. I can’t believe the dev team of this game will be this ignorant to let that pass for the updated version, unless they don’t really give a shit for her character and just see her as “Nitsuma’s favorite girl”.
And let’s not forget poor Viewtiful Joe.
My only problem with Phoenix is that her orbs home in on you and don’t disappear when she gets hit. Dorm’s Stalker Flare is EXACTLY the same except it can only be done on the ground, costs 1 bar,…and disappears when he gets hit.:wtf: Too many times have I caught a spamming Phoenix with Air Trick -> :s: and then after I start my combo, one of her orbs hits me.
The health nerf is unneeded.
who is actually very good but nobody is playing with him because hes not as herp derp scrub friendly as Wolverine or Wesker he actually requires a good amount of patience and spacing not to mention he combo’s actually take practice. by the end of this games life span i would say the most underrated characters are (in no particular order) Thor,Joe,Zero,Trish,Jill,Deadpool,MODOK,Storm