Ultimate mvc3 iron man

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1001

Seeing how most of this disussion of Iron Man’s potential is talking about his point game…

There’s plenty of characters that can make top 32 in a major easy in this game that simply aren’t because of higher level player preferences for characters. All it takes to get any character in top 32 really is to build a team around then. It’s just people don’t want to play Iron Man is the issue more so than how good or bad he is. He’s just simply eclipsed by other characters like Morrigan and Doom were in Vanilla where people just don’t feel it’s necessary to really run those characters hard because of the others.** He’s just not a popular character even if people did think he was good. He’s too high maintenance on point for the average tourney player to put on point regardless of his tier. **

Even if Iron Man was surefire A to S tier…he would just be another character that’s sitting on the potential but no one wants to use it simply because the game is team based and therefore players follow trends. There really wasn’t much stopping Morrigan + Missiles from winning a local tournament in Vanilla and having players like Dieminion claim Morrigan is within top 5 in the game…it’s just because of what people knew was good it was just easier to run what was you knew was good as opposed to what could be good.

Flash Metroid was the only high level player that wanted to run Iron Man “on point” so he pretty much had to bring Iron Man up on his own which is really hard to do. When you have to basically push the character in tourneys yourself. Technically Viscant counts I guess also since he did use Iron Man’s repulsor blast assist to win some matches during Evo and was winning early tourneys with Iron Man in Vanilla.

Pretty much all of the characters that provide the really strong assists are somewhat gimped on point. Doom still really will never have the potential to be as good on point as Magneto and it’s done on purpose because they want Doom to be more so a support character than a character you put on point like Magneto. Iron Man is the same deal. You can play him on point but they designed him so the idea is to play the team around his assists (his assists are too good to not play the team around) and then just either have a good assist supporting him or make sure you cleaned up enough of the team so he only has to kill one or 2 characters at most as anchor.

Iron Man if and when he becomes good will be good for the same reasons as Doom. Support based character that’s ideal in the second or 3rd spot and preferably find a way to switch him into the second spot if he is your anchor. Either that or just have a character that can make so much use of his assist in the second spot that it’s worth having him anchor.

**It will work like Doom where only die hard Iron Man fans will play him on point but the majority of players consistent with him will have him in a second or 3rd spot. ** Doom’s movement issues just like Iron Man’s are too much of an issue to have him in the first spot and his assists are too strong to put him there any way. Which is why we’ve seen first spot Doom pretty much slowly go into extinction. Not to say that you won’t have your Joker’s that have definitely shown it can work…it’s just the majority of players if a situation as such were to happen with Iron Man also would likely have him second or 3rd as with Doom.

Which is not surprising considering the top online player in Japan IIRC also uses anchor Iron Man. I still think people are overstating the difficulty of Iron Man’s abilities on point with assists but, that’s just something that like Vanilla Doom…is a matter of if people want to work hard enough for it or just settle for what works.

The only thing I feel that’s legit out of reality for Iron Man is getting into A+ or S tier on point. No safe DHC or safe screen clearing super (on top of being tooled like Doom to be purposely capped in potential on point because of his assists) will pretty much always keep him out of there. With work I don’t see any reason for him to not be able to realistically reach A tier on point or at worst a solid B. The people who throw him into C tier or hopeless tier I feel are just too shellshocked by his changes to care and have become complacent. He is the most changed character in the game probably next to Tron “why go all changing up a character that wasn’t even top tier???” so that’s understandable but, I feel it’s hardly changes that really turn him into this dud of a character on point. Especially considering some of the changes helped his hit confirms and half of his hit boxes got buffs through the changes.

His normals I’ll just agree still that having normals that long on an 8 way air dash character with that fast of start up I think can have some nasty stuff with assists applied with it. As for the ADDF…nobody was trying to pretend he had a great ADDF. Everyone agrees that it’s bad (outside of situational super jump height use) and have already compensated for it. His ADDF shouldn’t even be mentioned IMO unless you’re talking about SJ height shenanigans. It’s just not a part of his character anymore when you are using a regular jump. Everytime I hear about his ADDF it just reminds me of like some shellshocked war veteran. LOL.

If it seems like I’m playing a different character then that’s what I would like. The only way for Iron Man to be good is to create new tools out of his new tools. It seems more like everyone in this thread wants to play the old Tony rather than make the new Tony work. You can’t know how good or bad the new Tony is if you don’t put the work in. He’s just the type of character that doesn’t really unlock just by going ABCS, BBCS on the stick. Of course some people think that’s a huge hindrance in a game like this but…there’s plenty of characters that are strong in this game that don’t work in that fashion. ** We just have to actually do things with the new Iron Man instead of just saying “this doesn’t work cuz I tried a little bit but he has nice combos”. He’s just not in that Hsien Ko, PW realm to be acting like that at all about him. **

1002

Shame that Japanese Iron Man player didn’t enter their tournament. They had every random low tier character but Tony Stark.

1003

i see what you are saying. but i only agree with one of your points which is that IM needs to come up wit some better shit and that the IM playrs are needed to figure it out. i dont particularly agree/disagree with whether or not he will actualy be able to come up with new tech. as far as trying shit out, i think your assuming that IM players HAVENT tried to make the new things he got, work. at least for myself i can say i have. i was also probably the first person that looked at the new IM and wrote “this could be really good” i knew how i wanted him to play and the style i came up with is effective against certain members of the cast… but wholly ineffective against the majority. i also mentioned way back in the day about his superjump ADD m… problem is that it just isnt that effective… or atleast not as effective as i would hope. its still a b or c tier tactic like most of IM’s tactics.

as far as using his addf, the reason why IM’s are mad about its removal is cause it was literally like 90% of his offense. well… it got taken away and the only thing we got in return is his boxjump S which doesnt have a cheap marvel throw OS on it, and is free to chicken block.

basically he just dies to chicken blocking now, and as if that wasnt enough its just one of his many problems. luckily he has the new drones repulsor tech which will help him out immensely. it may even solve all of his problems the biggest one being he didnt have a go to strategy at neutral to just waste time while being safe and active while also clearing ways in. (unlike zero/dante/wesker/mags/viper/dorm etc etc)

BUT, now that he has that tech he may be a whole nother character, i wouldnt know cause i currently have no one to play and work too much plus baby and wife etc etc bla bla bla.

however… thats new tech. whereas everything your talking about has been tried and seen as basically lacking in appropriate strength to really be considered at A-tier status.

i mean your talking about IM on point yet you use him at anchor right? what would you know about him at point to make the claims that you do about his normals being so good his ADD being legit etc etc. you generally have IM in the back (which is where i stated awhile ago that i thought was his best spot) so you have XF3 making it much easier for you to get in with his new speed. but that dont have much to do with him at first position ie on point.

also, IM lost his best homegirl which was tron which was by far his best assist in vanilla. so take it easy on IM players in general pls… dude lost his partner and his derp addf… and even with those he wasnt spectacular.

TLDR IM’s offense got completely changed and his “buffs” dont do jack squat for it plus he lost tron. bu hes gained new sent tech which may pull him out of the gutter. TRY USING HIM ON POINT FOR A WEEK OR 2 AGAINST A VARIETY OF OPPONENTS before you claim that he has great stuff on point, its really a different ballgame to him at anchor, the matchups are completely different.

-dime

1004

I just saw your video against your bro DevilJin. I like how you build your team the same way as me. Your games were very momentum based and you got a very mean X-23 (although your bro’s Zero is way meaner with those TOD Lightning Loops). You got a lot of mileage off IM’s assist, I wish I am as proficient as you with my characters, so my IM will never have to fight. I noticed whenever your IM is in, you are already in a very dire situation, so you have to force something to happen and he didn’t get to do much:(

I feel like the different position we put IM in the team made a huge impact in our style of play.

1005

Obviously I’m sure other Iron Man mains from Vanilla have tried different things it just seems like a lot of the other players here haven’t really put those things to use so I’m getting them out there off breaks so everyone knows that you don’t have to ADDF to mix someone up. Maybe it’s not Magneto effective but that’s the point…he’s Magneto and Iron Man is not.

If all it took was combining drones + a special move to not make him free to chicken block then obviously he isn’t free to chicken block. Team specific on point to create a scary mix up game that he can lead into…probably. This is of course assuming nobody ever comes up with anything to help him deal with chicken block without an assist.

I don’t really care what tier status he is at now based on what has been found…I’m just saying there’s stuff that can be done and not having normal jump ADDF and no Tron does not spell the end for Iron Man’s point abilities. Too much doom and gloom for a character that I feel even on point still has a lot of potential to them.

He is the anchor spot on my team but that doesn’t mean that’s always what I do with him. I’ve been messing around with tagging him in safely with Dante and extending his pressure and ranged game with jam session assist. Which is basically playing him like a point character in the second spot. It’s going to take a while before I get a real strategy for it down because it’s not necessarily as set and forget as drones assist is but I feel like it has potential. At the monthly tournament I was at this weekend I played around with it a bit during tournament matches and more so during casuals. Once I actually put it into the lab, figure out his hit confirms from air and ground better and see what the other tech people are finding I feel I can run things from there.

Another local X-23 player plays X-23 as anchor which in theory is like her worst spot but he basically uses her in a way where he just builds a ton of meter up front with Morrigan and Iron Fist in the middle. Then lands a combo with Iron Fist and DHC’s into X-23 and XF2’s you until he can build meter for dirt nap to kill 2 people. Which then places X-23 in the second spot with an assist again.

Just because you play a character as anchor doesn’t mean you’re in some sort of vacuum where all you do with the character is run them by themselves every match.

I’m not going to play Iron Man on point though because like Dr.Doom…I feel it’s not a very creative and somewhat claustrophobic spot for him considering his assists (I’d like to have access to unibeam or repulsor blast from round start) and how like Dr.Doom he prefers to have space first. If nobody plays Doom first anymore then I ESPECIALLY see no reason to put Iron Man first. He just isn’t going to be in prime position to space himself at the start of the round at the start of a round without very specific assists. Which even then another character with that same assist would be much better for starting the round up and building space for Iron Man to come in after a character is killed with an assist.

To me Iron Man in the first spot is the “I love meeeeee some Iron Man” spot. Which is fine. It can work…I just don’t think it’s ideal even when 1 frame DHC to whiff punish is his only safe DHC option.

Zero is meaner than everybody so can only do so much about that LOL. She has strong ground and aerial movement that surpasses his and Zero does have a lot of trouble dealing with her aerial specials without getting hit.

Yeah until I learn more about how to utilize him as anchor and utilize him 2nd with jam session assist I’ll just run him for the assist game between 23 and Dante and just get what I can off that. Then when I learn more about how to utilize him on anchor like I did with Doom either waiting for him to durp it out as anchor or have him run jam session assist then Dante anchor…I can go from there.

The most consistent teams I’ve seen consist of teams where the team can be flopped in almost any order throughout the match and you can still get something pretty dangerous out of it. That’s what I’m trying to accomplish with the team basically. I’ve noticed one of the things holding me back is that I always want my team to play just down the line but, can get a lot more mileage between different matchups by learning to get it to work in any order and have the team interchange placements and assists on the fly.

1006

I find IM can zone out Zero with the Jam Session to control some air space. You can stay in the air to avoid his mix-up (use normal jump and then ADU to get to super jump height so assists are available to use), while beaming and bombing the crap out of him. Just make sure you stay out of the Lightning xx Buster range and he won’t be able to touch you. Although on the floor IM lose bad to Zero like everyone else, but I find c.h xx Replusor or fly and come down with s quite effective against some of his more obivous mix-ups. C.h will hit the assist and Replusor and j.s will hit Zero if he teleport towards you, fly j.s auto correct as well and it control all the space in front and below IM. That said if Zero choose to Buster on the ground and Lightning you or attack from the top of you, there is nothing IM can do about it, other than stay in the sky to prevent it from happening.

I find Captain America can be difficult to deal with. Shield and Charging Star is pretty good at get though IM’s zoning and he hits like a truck. I guess its time to keep flying and bomb him to death as well.

I agree with Dime, you should give IM more time on point to understand his point game without xfactor better. I don’t think he will ever reach the expectation of being a good point character, but at least he can be frustrating to deal with and hit like tank when you land something.

After a lot of trial and error, I think I have come to the conclusion of an Dante(Jam Session), Iron Man(Uni-beam), Ammy(Cold Star) team.

I feel like this team can work in any order in terms of DHCs and assists. Both Ammy and Dante (this guy gets a lot out of anything lol) get a lot out of Uni-beam, while IM can get something out of Jam Session and Cold Star. The only problem is my Ammy is so bad, she makes my IM and Doom look good:( Honestly though, unless my team is down to one character, I rarely feel like I am out of it.

1007

I agree with Deviljin in saying that solid consistent teams can run in any order and have 3 useful assists, really something I try to look for in my teams.

I believe my new IM teams as of now are Sent/IM/Doom and IM/Doom/Ammy the first team is very defensive playing similar to DiosX’s team… I mostly start IM and I form IM/Sent/Doom or I can start doom and form Doom/IM/Sent. The second team with Ammy is less zoning oriented and very aggressive, seeming to rely more on doom. Also any time I have IM second I have full screen punishes sooo… Yeah. Tbh I need to put even more work in my teams but in theory I feel the first one especially is one of the best IM teams now tbh.

1008

Again…that’s considering I play in some vacuum where every match I’ve ever played with Iron Man involved just using him by himself. Which is not true. You can play him with assist even though he is in your anchor spot and I’ve already been slowly getting into practicing him with an assist since the day I picked him up.

I don’t feel like I’ll learn anything playing him on the very first spot though since again I feel it’s just the “I LOOOVE TONY” spot and you don’t need to play him in that spot to utilize him with an assist. Most character specific threads tend to be full of “I put the character in this thread FIRST on my team HAH!” kinda stuff that just gets my eyes rolling. There are very few people who are in character threads that place the character anywhere but the first spot so you all you see is redundant conversations about how well the character does at round 1 fight and general “my man’s gotta be up first” stuff. You can place him anywhere on the team and still get to use him with an assist if you choose to.

Putting Tony in claustrophobic situations like the start of the round is not not an ideal way to run Tony IMO. I stopped putting Dante at the front of teams towards the end of Vanilla also because certain characters just have perfect incentive to end Dante quickly from the start of the round. Mainly due to how you can’t get the space or the meter to put yourself at a distance at the start. Which Dante is pretty much still top tier at a range + meter.

Once you close the gap on Dante unless you’re like Nemesis or something he instantly no longer is the top tier threat he can be from most anywhere else on the screen.

That of course would apply more so to Iron Man with the only exception of Tony having a 5 frame rapid fire c.L (as opposed to 8 frame L’s all around). Even then Dante still is better at positioning himself in and out of frame trap range than Iron Man is at the start of the round.

Which even then I don’t even feel like taking the risk with Dante anymore because Dante is basically the strongest part of the team. It’s just not worth it taking the gamble of him receiving big hits or dying early. At this point I’m most comfortable having someone who can bully with fast normals and wave dash/aerial movement at the start who can basically just harvest meter for Dante (X-23). Which if X-23 ends up building enough meter she can then dirt nap incoming characters easily.

1009

Yeah, to work on point, you either have to have something incredibly threatening that will keep your opponent in check immediately (Bionic Arm, Stupid OS with st.:h:, or crazy fast normals, etc), excellent mobility or a means to completely avoid the start of round situation entirely (MODOK). Now with invincible assists really gimped it’s even more important. Iron Man has none of these things so point is probably a bad idea.

I used to put him first purely because I liked playing him, but too often I’d get wrecked right away by Wolverine or Mags because they simply work better in those spots. There’s no point in starting the round already at a disadvantage that way. Play to his strengths. You’re not really helping yourself if you have Iron Man on a team and don’t even get to use his assists once.

1010

I’ll offer a slightly different POV which is to say that playing him on point can minimize some of his issues.
[LIST]
[]IM has trouble approaching people because of how his tridash works. Unless he has an assist to hold them down for a while, it’s pretty easy to evade him. However on point, he can play a much more slow and patient distance game since he’s up first and not in a position where he has to make a comeback. If you play him at second or anchor, there’s always a chance he’s responsible for fixing a 2v3 or 1v3 situation, and he’s pretty bad at that even with resources.
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Assists help fix holes in his neutral game. A lot.
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]Assists also ramp his damage way more than they help the average character.A With 2 assists, he does TOD combos that build meter for the rest of the team in the process - in the top class of damage dealers in the game, IMO. He still does good damage with just 1 assist, and then he does alright/average damage alone.
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]If you see a bad match-up, you can bench him. You’ll still get good value out of his assists, and some other point characters can’t offer that kind of value if you rearrange your team as the match starts.
[/LIST]

I don’t really have an answer for his bad start-of-the-match options, though. That’s probably a deal breaker.

There was some stuff that was discussed earlier that I really liked - it’s the idea of playing him at second or anchor and using raw tag combos to benefit from his stupid combo extensions. Then you get the benefit of using his assist, his high damage, and his pretty good corner game on incoming characters.

I haven’t had a chance to figure out who all can raw tag him in mid combo just yet, but I plan on working on it soon (if FlyingVe doesn’t post a big video on it first!).

1011

Well,it depends on the characters, IM is always a workable Raw Tag partner because how fast is proton gun starts up. However, with specialized raw tags like with Nova (Javelin Tag) or RR (Hopper Tag), you can take advantage of how repulsar blast loops pretty much ignore hitstun deterioration.

A brief list of characters who can raw tag into him (I may forget some):
Rocket Raccoon
Nova/Spencer
Jill
Vergil
Thor
Strider
Firebrand
Hulk

Here’s the hopper tag vid I just put out. It’s relevant because, the team i’ve been using is RR/IM/Sent and it seems to work pretty well.
[media=youtube]HhIIYnN1y_A[/media]

1012

I’m guessing there’s no way nova can raw tag mid combo besides combining into his crumple? Could he use his centurion ground bounce or no?

1013

Nope, you pretty much need spencer, and then you do the Javelin tag I outlined in an older one of my videos. I haven’t really played with that composition much at all. Personally, I would try to set up the Javelin tag as late as possible so you could do some repulsar loops using Nova’s assist (Cent B or Cent A) to link the repulsars. It would add a decent amount of damage since IM’s minimum scaling is better than Nova’s/

1014

I see, well that’s kinda a shame but its still very cool tech…Nova/Spencer/IM actually sounds like a solid team too.

1015

Yeah…being able to stack him with assists and TOD is fun but it kinda limits you for assists in the neutral and stuff and plays the team too much around a character that has some of the game’s best assists and a solid full screen super DHC with 2 seperate angles. It also subjects Iron Man exactly where he doesn’t want to be at the start of the round so I just don’t see it in the long run working.

The highest level Iron Man player we have on footage right now is Joker and the fact that he puts Iron Man in second spot pretty much shows that that’s the way people should be following their Iron Man teams. Towards the second or anchor spot. Flying Ve’s raw tag technology helps for that also.

I don’t see any reason to put Iron Man first other than subjecting to him to trouble from the start of round simply because you really like him (which is how most character threads work any way). First spot Iron Man is just combo video Iron man to me. Especially when he brings such strong neutral tools to your team when he’s not in play.

1016

I’m guessing the best way to do it for Nova/Spencer would be to raw tag -> Repulsor Blast, Spread, Call Nova Cent B, Smart Bombs, Nova Hits & Ground Bounces, Repulsor Blast, Spread, Smart Bombs, Super.

That’s a pretty good chunk of damage really. I guess the question then is how good are Nova/Spencer with Unibeam assist?

Others to test:
[LIST]
[]Dante can probably raw tag to Iron Man off a Sky Dance that ends with the long knockdown. That sets you up nicely to have a Jam Session assist waiting for the extension.
[]Doctor Strange maybe off an Impact Palm? Eye of Agamotto can extend IM combos as well.
[]Dormammu off a spell maybe? Those have some serious knockdowns and hitstun involved. Dark Hole and Liberation both work as combo extenders for IM.
[]Iron Fist off his crumple strike probably, too. His Dragon Fang kick is also a good extender for IM.
[*]I’m sure She-Hulk could do it off her command throws for a nice damage bump. Not sure on her assists for extensions.
[/LIST]

1017

Bleh… I’ll just include them all in the IM vid I’m working on.

…It keeps getting longer…

1018

Kei has some very solid Spencer/Ironman tech outside of zip+unibeam. Might put some time into this team using flyingve’s hard tag tech…seems interesting. The only problem I have with the team is that he has no obvious ways to use slant shot/centurion to set up hard to block situations in the corner, also I doubt both of those help IMs neutral game at first glance.

1019

I think I was slightly misunderstood. I would be lying if I said I don’t think IM is mainly an assist character. But I am just trying to say you should experiment with team order a bit to see if he can offer something else in other spots.

1020

Well the only spot I could really experiment with is the second and that’s not really necessary since I can do the same thing with him in the anchor spot and more (play him as anchor or safely get him in and use him as a 2nd spot with Dante anchor). I could play him in 2nd spot to give X-23 a stronger DHC but I prefer just having a 3rd character to DHC into when I build enough meter. I play my X-23 mainly around resets any way.

1st spot is just Combo Video Man and too risky because you have to deal with his movement issues against a bunch of point blank ass rushdown characters when the round starts.