TvC: Tier List Speculation

Mixup · January 22, 2009, 12:39pm

yourmother:

Interesting list. I’m not going to shoot off my mouth about roll anymore but I will say a couple things about your list otherwise.

First, I feel like I agree with you about Ken. He seems like he could be good, like he as a really high ceiling for the stuff he could do, but I just haven’t seen it out of anybody yet. I think he could be good, but I’m holding off making him top tier until I see some really solid stuff out of some people.

However much I hate to say it because I play him, I’d have to put Casshern lower than that. His main damage comes from his combos, but it’s really hard to get in for them. His attacks aren’t particularly fast, he has nowhere near the range of, say, tekkaman, and he doesn’t really have any good approaches from the air. I really want to hit more of his combos, but I end up hitting most of my damage off of friender stuff > knockdown in one way or another> super.

Polymar is another one who seems to have some problems approaching, but I don’t really play him that much so I won’t judge.

Yatterman’s another one like Ken where I feel like he could do some good things but I haven’t really seen them yet, we’ll see I guess.

Tekkaman, this one’s solid, I really feel like he could even go up in the rankings. Here in Japan he’s pretty sick. You can play him with actually a pretty high degree of safety just jumping around and covering his laggy moves with an assist. One of the reasons he’s getting picked a lot too is because he is probably the best counterpick for Karas. He can take a lot of punishment from Karas before going down, he has range on him, and he stays in the air a lot with his j.C which messes up Karas players. I dunno why the US seems to be kind of down on him sometimes.

Doronjo is another one that’s huge in Japan and not in the US. The people over here can do some crazy stuff with her, not only weird looking combos, but some kinda traps with the henchmen that you don’t even realize. Also, they spam the hell out of that boulder super whenever you hit the ground. It’s probably one of the best supers in the game because it means a free combo unless you can block a high/low mixup while totally blind. Put it in a team-up super with a high damage character and you’ve got some serious hurt headed your way 9 times out of 10.

plz record some vids if possible sometime, especially the under used characters:sweat::lovin:

Jon_Slayton · January 22, 2009, 1:08pm

Honestly the biggest problem I saw in that vid was the karas had no patience, he seemed like he had it out to keep dashing in / IADing and getting owned by saki every time he tried. If he had just approached while blocking and jumped up to meet her whenever she went for grenade shenanigans, I think he would have done fine. He just made a lot of mistakes in that match really. I wouldn’t call it anti karas.

All he really had to do was get in her face, push block something and start an offense. Super jump j.C her when she goes air born and all that runaway stuff wouldn’t really do much.

You really can’t take risks with karas.

wolfox_okamicha · January 22, 2009, 4:42pm

I want to see some Doronjo lovin’. <3

The only Doronjo vid I have seen is her 100%.

yourmother · January 22, 2009, 4:43pm

Yeah sorry I’d love to but most of my experience comes from arcades here, so I can’t very well record it, especially if I’m there alone. I’ll see if I can do something sometime.

CFAY · January 22, 2009, 5:14pm

good to see some more people seeing ken’s potential.

yourmother: i’m surprised you play in japan and havent seen any good ken players.

yourmother · January 22, 2009, 5:23pm

Yeah idk maybe it’s a kansai thing but I haven’t seen hardly anyone even use him yet.

XSilvenX · January 22, 2009, 6:19pm

If you’re playing at arcades then have a friend do some off-screen recording.

frustratedsquirrel · January 22, 2009, 6:22pm

I think it’s funny that people consider Ken to be a great character, but nobody really plays him.

I just can’t get the hang of him at the moment. He’s not exactly an easy character to play. I always forget about his mobility and try to play him similar to Batsu.

Diveman · January 22, 2009, 6:40pm

hows the yatterman usage in japan? do people play him a lot? because ive been trying to find new stuff (not only combo related but also about his gameplay) and I think he has potential as you said, and his assist seems useful to support hars that get raped on pushblock (uh polymar comes to my mind right now) allowing them to make the opp stay on blockstun while you can approach again and hopefully with a good mixup. Yatter needs more love…

XSilvenX · January 22, 2009, 6:59pm

Well at a glance you can sorta tell a good character from a bad one. In general he seems like a good character, I’ll say that much. You’re right though, nobody really uses him to prove this.

I know one thing though, his level 3 is pretty dam beast, and from what I’ve seen it’s comboable.

frustratedsquirrel · January 22, 2009, 7:38pm

Yes, it is. But usually you need an assist though.

Polymar is so good as an assist for so much stuff. I think his assist has the most overall stun time of any in the game? I really like Polymar but I’m not very good at using him yet. Gotta learn those long combos.

Speaking of assists, does anyone else try to use Doronjo’s assist as a shield? The projectile stays out for a long time, and I usually try to pair Doronjo with Saki, Megaman or Roll. When she does the kiss, I stand just a bit behind it and set up a charge. Most of the time, the opponent isn’t going to try to approach you head on because the kiss is there. So you just have to watch out for any aerial attempts and go for a Megaman drill or whatever.

of course it isn’t so good if the opponent is always in your face, but I find that Roll knockdown + kiss assist + water bucket forces the opponent to advance aerially for a moment. In some cases it can buy Roll some time to heal, too.

Eph · January 23, 2009, 9:02am

XSilvenX:

Because 90% of the people who are posting here have no idea what they’re talking about. They think a few minutes in training mode with each character and watching a few videos is a good way to determine tiers. It took months for the Brawl tier list to come out after many many MANY tournaments and we’re still changing things. It’s been…about one month and suddenly everyone knows TvC like the back of their hand.

… There is some truth to what a lot of you guys are saying though, don’t get me wrong. But a lot of these “lower” characters that are being ignored will surprise the shit out of you when tournaments come around.

The next big tournament to look forward to is Winter Brawl in PA. I’ll be going to that one.

It’s laughable that you guys are discussing tiers without videos for reference really…it’s a MUST. You have to show what the character is capable of, you cannot fathom it in your own mind. The way you play with a certain character (as godly as you may think you are) might not be the best way to play them. So there’s simply a lot of empty claims being thrown around.

Still there’s no denying Karas is godly though. More Karas meatriding

My favorite anti-Karas vid…

[media=youtube]uojq1PMxOFo&feature=channel_page[/media]

Shows just how simple Karas can be sometimes. Don’t say the Karas sucks either (although he is kinda…sloppy) because you guys know you all do the same dam thing. Karas has no good IAD so everyone basically pokes with 2a and tries to “mix” it up until they get a clean hit to continue with.

Tier-lists are ever-evolving. The tier lists given so far can be taken as face value as it is. They are most definitely not for sure right now, but it gives everyone a starting off point. I’m sure the tier list will start to change as times goes on, but would it really hurt to start speculating early?

GHNeko · January 23, 2009, 9:37am

THEY CORRUPT THE MASSES AND BRING NOTHING BUT TIER-WHORE FAGGOTRY.

THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

Jk jk. There’s nothing wrong with talking about match ups, but tiers should just wait until we get solid ground on the whole cast. THEN let the tier speculation commence.

That’s just me though.

Keits · January 23, 2009, 10:30am

Alpha counter more vs Karas.

Souki is probably going to be the worst normal character.

GHNeko · January 23, 2009, 10:41am

how come?

frustratedsquirrel · January 23, 2009, 10:50am

Variable counter is actually pretty good vs Karas. usually better than a megacrash, and it costs less to perform.

GHNeko · January 23, 2009, 11:15am

Fixed.

V. Counter is like Mega Crash’s half sibling.

Jon_Slayton · January 23, 2009, 11:23am

Good until Karas spots it and counters you in the corner and then megacrashes back into another combo, lol.

I’ve hit people out of those alpha counters a couple of times. Dunno how but I’d like to know how to recreate it.

Also hmmm, Souki as the worst character? He’s not great but I think he plays tatsunoku better than Alex at the very least. Atleast souki can whiff punish pretty well and he does have really amazing range / anti air. He’s just…incredibly unsafe without an assist covering him. Also…he can’t hit roll with any combos. -_-

His assist is good good good though, it seems to track, unlike a lot of other assists that just go off on their own randomly. And as for like…my experience with the character, he just can’t fight karas. Everyone else is not really all that bad.

frustratedsquirrel · January 23, 2009, 11:25am

The main problem with Souki is that he doesn’t have much vs defensive players. His moveset is more suited to him being the defensive one.

Having said that, he’s really amazing with the damage he can do and combos. For such a slow character anyway. And he’s safer than Tekkaman.

XSilvenX · January 23, 2009, 12:20pm

By “normal” you mean…?