TvC: Tier List Speculation

Classic Fighting Games Tatsunoko VS Capcom
1

Hey, we all knew this thread was coming. I think the game’s been out for long enough for us to get a GENERAL feel about where the characters stand. Let’s get some discussion going!

Anyway my take at the tiers is this:

Top Tier:
Karas

Upper Tier:
Chun
Ryu
Polymar
Ken
Viewtiful Joe

Mid Tier:
Morrigan
Tekkaman
Batsu
Casshern
Doronjo
Jun
Ippatsuman
Saki
Yatterman
Daimao
Rock

Low Tier:
Souki
Roll
Alex

Bottom:
Gold Lightan
PTX

Basically, Karas is at top because of his amazing zoning abilities, rush down, and his infinite. His damage is just ok on characters he can’t infinite, but he still has incredible rush down potential and is all around a solid character. He also takes incredible advantage of push block, moreso than any other character. Overall, I feel like he stands a bit above the rest of the cast, so I put him in top by himself.

High tier obviously is the really solid other characters. Chun I feel like has the most potential out of all of them, but they’re all pretty good. Ryu of course, does everything well, and has a great assist. His damage is amazing, he has mix ups, and possibly one of the best jump ins in the game. Polymar has probably the best mix up[s in the game, as well as probably the best damage. With baroque he easily gets 100%'s, as well as having one of the best assists in the game. Ken overall just seems solid. His damage isn’t as good as Ryu’s, but he has awesome mobility and he has a lot more tricky setups than a straightforward character like ryu. Viewtiful Joe I was debating putting in upper mid, as I don’t feel he’s quite as good as those other characters, but he’s still a force and I imagine once someone can actually do his infinite, he’ll really be scary. As is though his range kind of hurts him. He does have possibly the best runaway in the game though.

Mid Tier is the characters I feel are good but don’t have an edge over the tiers above them. Some I wasn’t sure where to place and possibly in the right hands they could be higher, but as it stands for me now, that’s where I view them.

Low tier for me are the characters that don’t have much going for them. Souki could possibly be higher, but he’s incredibly unsafe and has to play pretty defensive to get by. I don’t feel like there’s a lot of room to improve on his part, and most of the stuff you can do that’s fancy with him is pretty risky, so you zoning and punishing seem to be his only real options. Roll gets destroyed by push block and her damage isn’t so hot outside of level 3. Alex has a lot of problems getting inside and has to take risks in order to be effective IMO. Simply zoning him / push blocking him out usually deals with anything he can do, although once inside, he can be scary. He just has a lot of trouble getting there. Possibly with the right assist he could be higher though.

Bottom of course, is the easily dispensed robots.

Anyway this is all speculation and I’m sure things will change when more shit is found and the game develops.

2

Roll should be mid or at least low-high. She makes a good assist, her overheads and aerial C are made of win (disjointed hitbox!) and her healing super make good DHC traps.

3

I’m really adamant that people are sleeping on Lightan. Kara Grab, and A. He’s mid or upper tier, but I’ll let you guys sleep on him.

4

eh, i would make chun li top tier. chun is a god in this game. karas takes damage like a bitch, and i wouldnt consider him top tier just because of that. if he took damage on average like the rest of the cast, then yes, he stands alone for that spot, but because one fucking slip up can lead to him bleeding from his stupid little beak, i wouldnt make him top tier, but definitely high, because of his good offense, and easy infinite.

its gonna be nice to see the more shit people end up doing with karas in the future, and or find ways to get around his shit and hurt him.

morrigan is fucking low tier. her dash sucks ass, and is only unique in the way she can cancel it. yes, maybe with days of practice, you can find a way to be semi efficient with her trash ass dash, but its a waste of your time. her infinite is simple to do though. her only super thats worth a damn is her level 3, which doesnt put the player in a good position. all other supers either need some type of assist setup, and i dont know if her missile super has a setup yet. have not kept up with her shit.

morrigan has a good rush down of sorts when she is in, and her launcher has nice range, but her dash makes her some what ineffective to me, and is her main downfall. if it was not for that, i would say she was a solid mid, even with her only having one super she can combo off of, which is a level 3.

doronjo is good, and once people start taking time to master spamming the shit out of her assist, then she will be a big problem in my opinion. her jump in heavy is good shit. she has an infinite on tekkaman, and another general infinite using her assist in the corner. i like doronjo.

jun is solid, and has good mind games she can perform in the corner for those wanting to hold d/b all day. she is fast as shit. all her jump ins are good. all her supers combo from her normals, and her level 3 combos on the ground and in the air. she has a possible infinite that we have yet to really test, and appears to be a bit technical. she plays keep away real good with her heavy yo yo, and will catch bammas trying to be slick and jump, or spam assist from mid to full screen.

jun, can play solid mind games with her yo yo’s, and her light yo yo has decent recovery. her only specials that are truly worthwhile though, are her yo yo’s, and her reverse d/p dive in kick move. the yo yo to flip kick thing can be used for corner pressure, and can be comboed off of without baroque, and her other move she does in the air, is really only solid for air combos, but may be able to be used for corner pressure too, and she can cancel that into her supers.

jun is pretty solid really. people should keep her in their thoughts, because i can see a expert jun posing plenty of problems. i still play with her, and i think she is good.

alex is right where he needs to be. the hype of his damage all goes away when you realize you cant do shit without taking risk, and dont have to many solid tools to compete with even an average characters rush down. let alone the shit ryu, chun, karas, etc… can do to you.

rock is probably a solid mid, judging from my little time of playing him, and observing him in vids.

if ken is upper tier, than i would put jun there. considering the fact that juns assist is okay, kens assist is trash. kens launcher has shit ass range also. he does have possible teleport shennanigans, but we have yet to see a good strategy against that. ken does healthy damage though. his level 3 needs a solid assist setup to my knowledge, and is not as easily comboable as juns supers.

yeah, if ken is upper tier, than so is jun. kens assist sucks, he needs a decent assist to combo his level 3, and his launcher has shit range, his jump in medium and fierce are kinda sucky. the fierce jump in with ken is good, but can wiff, and doesnt have the range and beastlieness of other characters jump in. thats ken, just to name a few off the top of my head.

ken in comparison to jun though. juns assist isnt god like, but is better, she doesnt need an assist to combo any of her supers, ALL her jump ins are good, and her launcher doesnt have massive range, but has better range then ken. so either ken is mid tier, or jun is also upper tier. i wont be bold enough to say she is upper, but i wouldnt put it pass her, coming from someone that plays her.

casshern is solid. dogs still come out even if your hit. level 3 needs a good assist though. level 1 supers do good damage, and are easily comboable. his armor knee is good shit to deal with rush downs. he does good damage, and has decent defense. his jump ins are kinda weak though, but you can work with the light and heavy versions, they arent that bad, im just comparing them to other characters. i would consider him upper mid. he has the ability to handle himself on his own pretty well, and his assist is good, but not good to combo with really.

fuck yatterman. bias opinion

batsu is solid. his launcher has shitty range, but he has an easy infinite in the corner, good damage, good combos involving his super, his flame kicks punish people holding d/b all day, and you can baroque it for full combo to launcher to super, he has decent defense, his jump in light and medium are very good, and if you jump in with medium that gets blocked, you can iad into jump in heavy, and can possibly cross people up for a nice combo. batsu is upper mid for sure, and his assist is decent.

polymar is a pain in the ass. his assist is stupid. i dont have much else to say, because im done thinking. when people start finding holes in karas offense that they might be able to exploit, he will drop quick, because he has such horrible defense. thats all presuming he has some terrible hole to exploit. right now, his offense alone keeps him up there, but his d is what does not make him top tier. either upper, or high mid. i cant emphasize enough how fast this dude can die

ugh, no one should play giants. they should not have even been in the game. i will skip all giant vids, and i would walk away from all giant matches. boring trash is what giants are. i dont care what they have. i just cant get with it. there has been no characters like them in any vs series, and they fucking suck

5

I agree about Karas potentially sucking if people find gaps in his shit. You have to have ROCK SOLID execution with him, because one dropped combo means you’re getting punished for a lot of the time 100% because your misquito bite combos left them with massive amounts of red life. Baroque really lets you turn a match around quick if you’re losing and get a lucky hit with a strong character like ryu or poly.

Jun, I haven’t seen a lot of. Her mobility isn’t like Ken’s and her damage is weaker. I was messing with her tonight, couldn’t really find anything BROKE with her, although maybe something’s there. Ken just feels better to me. More speed, more damage, he can use his boomerang to approach, etc etc. Yeah his assist isn’t so great but you can still use it in combos, just takes different timing. Jun, Although she can combo into supers, they don’t really hurt that much. On average, some of the better characters can spend no meter and do more damage.

I think a big thing in this game will be NOT comboing supers. Meter is much better saved for mega crash since for one, it keeps you alive longer in this high damage game, and two, it actually makes openings. Polymar can crash in the corner when he gets hit and combo into 50%. Karas can do it and infinite. I imagine high level play will have a lot of people just sitting in their meter since megacrash is so retardedly good. Also another reason Karas is so good is that he’s always rushing and thus building meter, so when they DO finally weezle a hit in, he just megacrashes and combos from 2B from like halfway across the screen from the corner.

Oh also if you can up cancel the dash ins with morrigan, she basically has instant overheads. Her damage is mediocre but man, that bitch can rush / mix up in the right hands. Otherwise yeah, she’d be shitty. But she has an infinite and cheesy instant overheads, so that makes up for her other weaknesses and puts her at mid for me. Not extremely threatening but could be annoying.

Also what’s the cheese with doronjo’s assist? Just the fact it sits there for like a year?

6

Well all opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. The evidence for tiers will be more developed with tourney results.

7

I think that the batsu/chun combo is amazing because of chun’s incrada-easy anti-air/airial rave finsihers, plus her super that goes into an arial rave. and batsu’s good, but he’s replacable with morrgain also imo. for the same purpose that they both have a ranged, and the same projective attack goes at a diag in the air. they both have some sort of directly above/near direct-above anti air (ala SRK-esque). and they both have some very applicable specials. however, for a level 1 special, the dude with the double edged sword, right under Casshern (i forget his name), the special where he throws that thing in the air and then shoots a lazer at it, mmmmhhmm, that’s some sweet stuff right there. takes care of air and ground targets. and the rope he has def. provides some combo opps.

I’d say those would be my top tier.

8

my list:

(no particular order)

A Tier:
Megaman
V-Joe
Ryu
Karas
Chun

B Tier:
Batsu
Casshern
Roll
Polymar
Ippatsuman
Tekkaman

C Tier:
Morrigan
Saki
Alex
Ken
Jun
Souki
Doronjo
Daimo
Yatterman

D Tier:
Giants

1st tourney in america results top 5:
1 Floe (Joe/Chun, Ryu/Chun)
2 Grego (Karas/Chun)
3 The Branton (Karas/Batsu)
4 j1n (Rock/Ryu/Casshern)
5 Random1234 (Karas/Ryu)
5 Keits (Polymar/Alex, Roll/Casshern, Gold Lightan)

my 2 cents on A tier: if you go by the results of FF, there were 3 Karas’ 2 Ryus, 2 Chuns and 2 Cassherns in the top 5. However I don’t think Casshern is top, hes high B tier at best, even though his unblockable setup is really good. So other than Casshern, by the numbers Karas,Chun,Ryu belong in A tier, for their ease to play low risk/high reward, combos into Lv3 Supers off of mixups etc. makes those 3 obvious tops. Karas’ only weakness is his lifebar. As for Megaman, I think people are highly underrating him, its not some fluke that I got 4th. His machine gun super is the fastest super in the game, even more so than shinku, so you can punish almost any move with 1 meter. Machinegun is horrible to get inside on. C blaster is retarded good, if you do get inside on him he has shield and drill arm to deal with you and can even rush you down with those arms. from shield and fist arm in the corner he can set up an infinite, which just builds meter for him to spam machinegun super. He has lack of mixups, but I don’t think he needs them. V-joe is also tops if anyone masters his voomerang infinite, which I feel I shoulda picked vjoe in the tourney now :frowning: but he also is hard to combo like megaman cause they are small, he also has an IAD infinite, and huge damage combos from, and can combo into lv3.

9

Is Ryu really that amazing? His j.C is amazing, he does good damage, and shinkuu is way good but…how does he land hits? His overhead is alright, but other than that…he’s not a hard guy to block. I feel like he’s VERY solid, but being such a basic and easy to play character makes him seem better than he is.

10

Having a good assist doesn’t hurt. His j.C can crossup and its just that he can combo into big damage from most if not all of his ground moves. So when fighting him the term “don’t get hit” is more important than other characters. He’s just really solid and plus his assist is straight up universal.

11

I’d say karas’ low defense plays to his advantage. I mean, sure he takes more damage from a bnb, but that also means he gets more red life from the same bnb. One baroque and you’re done unless you’re a giant!

Also, roll’s A LOT better than you guys think. She has healing super that you can safely combo into (and even DHC for good dmg), her j.C is WAY BEYOND gdlk, she builds up meter fast, her bnb deals about as much dmg powered up as a regular combo into lv1 super, and she can combo her BIG DMG lv3 off her overhead. Oh, and her retarded hitbox is a bitch to deal with.

I’d go with j1n’s list except with karas at s-tier, roll at bottom of a-tier, and ken at b-tier.

[EDIT] Oh wait, also tekkaman at a-tier. 40% meterless combos are GAY!

12

3 low attacks, an overhead, IAD C, best assist, best super, stupid damage, invincible shoryuken…

Several characters have only 1 low attack (sweeps), shitty IADs, and bad mobility…

Ryu is definitely top tier.

13

alone roll is fairly weak and with the wrong partner she probubly sucks. though i think she can do OK 1 on 1 just by healing a lot and being annoying. but with a casshern yatterman or tekkaman give her alot of potential. any swat down (this is unmegacrushable after 1 quick hit)with her can deal 2000 damage+ with yatta and casshern with 1p yatta she can easily deal 30000+ damage with no serious preparation other than them being within like a third of the screen of the corner. tekkaman just gives her a way to heal while dishing out major damage(punishable against fast projectile supers, though tekkaman can take it if necessary)

She is a bit meter dependent, but she can build it herself well, so i think unless conserving meter for MC becomes all important id say shes high tier.

14

Yeah, Roll can be a scary character if she’s not up against like, Karas. The endless super stuff with Casshern or Yatterman is hard enough to deal with, but the second she gets any distance she can heal, and unless you’ve got the right character, you can’t stop her. She’s a great character for just running the clock, I’ve noticed, but only so-so in terms of offense.

The Genie is also totally meter dependent, but he’s pretty good when it’s there since all his supers are braindead easy to land in their respective circumstances. If only his range didn’t suck beyond that…

15

Megaman as THE best? I mean I know he’s decent but I don’t see how he’s better than the other top characters. His damage and range are both pretty so-so outside of the infinite, and the infinite relies on the corner, so overall his damage is never gonna be very high. Maybe I just need to play a good megaman but I don’t see it just yet.

16

I agree, I mean, Ive seen first hand some great shit with Gold Lightan.

Besides, he is the closest we’ve come to Gold War Machine since his debut!

17

keyphrase

18

hahaha sorry, missed that part.

Messed around with mega in training mode for a bit. I think if he could do good damage he’d actually be in the top. TK 6B is too strong.

19

I kinda agree with your list. Doronjo is amazing with red life, so I think that she will settle in at upper-mid or higher. Pairing her with Polymar lets you do some very silly things and her assists let her combat all sorts of play styles.

I also feel that Souki is a bit better than you’re giving him credit for. His 5A has incredible range and push blocks don’t push him out of pressure range. His lvl 3 transformation super has got to be one of the best lvl 3’s in the game (super armor + the ability to block + plus health regen opportunities on hit) and his basic combos deal upwards of 15k. His down side is the lack of good lows (only his 2A leads to damaging non-baroque combos) and not having an overhead…but crushing Megaman’s trigger from half screen with 18k damage is pretty hot.

Alex is also probably higher on the tier list. 5A or 2A xx Power Bomb © is unavoidable on block and combos on hit, and he is the strongest character in the game (robots excluded). Lacking a double jump is what realy hurts him though as it takes some real work to get in on characters like Karas and Megaman.

Karas is not in a tier of his own. He is on the same level as Joe, Polymar, Ryu, Chun.

Polymar is quite possibly the most solid character in the game. He has 50% life combos and can deal 35%+ damage off of an air to air J.B.

I haven’t seen any good Ken stuff, so I’m finding it hard to believe that he is that high. But like I said, I haven’t seen his shit, so I may be wrong.

Ippatsuman is definitely in the upper tier. Good assist + good normals + awesome specials + an air grab for a super. He is very good.

20

nah, she is faster than ken. her yo yos can fuck you up from full screen, so she doesnt need to be in your face, and her level 1’s are only a tad bit weaker than kens, and her level 3 is slightly weaker than kens, but still deals good damage, and she can do it on the ground and in the air without setups. ive tested the damage on both characters, and they are not radically different, but i will say kens level 3 does very nice damage.

not saying ken isnt good, if anyone is doubting ken, just watch some of demon hyos videos, but just for the sake of argument, ken is not in any way drastically better than jun, if not better at all. ken has a slight nudge in the damage department, but jun makes up for that with other goodies. i play jun in my videos, if you want to check her out, and i have not even gotten started with her. my next batch of videos will showcase a lot more of what i have been working on overall.

eh, well i agree for the most part, but my take on it is, you will see more people trying to build at least 3 to 4 meters before actually doing supers, just so they kinda stay ahead most of the time. most people arent doing it as much now, because of lack of competition, and still just feeling out things in the game. i say lack of competition, because i can spam supers all i want if my opponent wont do anything about it, or has any ability to make me fear from wasting my supers.

i see that already in my gameplay now, as my roommate is steppin up, and im choosing to play more like i would if i was in a tourney situation. 3.5 super bar is a good safe medium to have, because even if you mega crash, at least you wont get infinite to death because you will build 2 bars pretty quickly. but all that is case by case, and varies. supers will always be a major part of the vs series, and i dont think megacrash has changed that. megacrash cost your life, and two bars, regardless of how good it is, its still not the most favored option, especially considering you can get megacrashed back to maintain the pressure, if thats something your willing to sacrifice. for infinite characters, its somewhat worth the sacrifice, but it depends on many factors within the match.

she can call two different assist out at the same time, and she has a grab assist also by the way that you can combo off of. i only played her for like half an hour, and in a few matches, havent gone back yet, but she is good. she has an assist where dude comes out and hits you a few times with some punches, and she can combo off that, she has a bomb assist, she has a grab assist, she has an assist that throws rocks at you, and she has an air assist that drops rocks on you. you would have to check out her thread to catch up on her. oh, and each assist varies in range of attack.

yeah, things will change in time a bit, but considering the level of play at these tourneys so far has not really been that high, i wouldnt say tourney results will be much evidence just yet.

huh, of course. is no one watching his videos or something. if your not watching videos because you dont like the characters, stop, im telling you, there is some funky stuff out there. steve h’s ryu was on another level back in late december, and word from my boy is, he is only getting better. im actually gonna try to interview him, and other maryland people soon, but thats something else. my ryu has been decent in my vids, considering i put little time into him, but he is on some other shit now, and i will showcase some stuff in the next week or two. im waiting to get my converters and start playing on stick. once i get warmed up, ill be dropping vids of ryu, batsu, chun, jun, and casshern, with some added newness.

no, having low defense is never an advantage. especially not as low as his is. baroque takes away your ability to regenerate, it is really not to be spammed, and considering his defense is already weak, the last thing you wanna do is a 30 percent baroque combo that might get megacrashed, and or will leave you unable to regenerate that lost life if you can still tag out.

karas doesnt do enormous offensive damage to say that him having red life is dangerous. he does good damage, but its not that huge as people seem to be implying. alex on the other hand, if he can baroque, its about to get real serious. alex is most dangerous when he has level 3, and can baroque.

you will find people more using their baroque for offensive options, to stay safe, and or mind game, rather than to extend combos, in the coming months. watch. im already doing it, because i realized that i can do more with baroque, then just waiting until i got a nice chunk of red life, so i can extend a combo, that probably isnt worth it. i havent really been doing big baroque combos for a couple weeks now, and im almost not even doing many level 3’s anymore. for some characters, i would rather just save the bars, unless its a sure kill, and im already at an advantage in general.

thats about it. i dont have an opinion on roll, but i dont think she sucks. someone else would have to bring her to the light, i would never play her. i agree with megaman just being b tier, because he also gets raped for free with his life, but he is probably a high b, he has some shit. there are no s tiers in the game, and if it were to be one, it would be chun over karas easy in my opinion. the casuals show this, and if you play her, you would know this. i think karas is getting overly hyped, but i have a slightly bias opinion on that. i wouldnt say he sucks by any means. im curious as to how people really start developing his offense, and taking it to the next level.

dont know anything about ippatsu. played him for like half an hour. he was solid though.