Turbo 4?! Widescreen off?! What the what?! You wanna just go all out and play on PS3 too while we’re at it?
Maybe it’s just me, but I thought we had a good thing goin’ with widescreen speed 3 on XBox…
Serious question to the people asking for change: Why? In what do you think these changes will make the competition better?
Turbo 3 is the perfect balance IMO, it’s faster than “so slow you can see everything coming a mile away” (champion edition) but it’s slower than “OMFG i never even saw that coming” (Hyper fighting on full speed).
I much prefer the pacing, execution speed, time for thought, etc of a game on speed 3, but HDR is a a viable game on either 3 or 4 in my oppinion. All the US big names seem happy with 3, and the japanese play Super turbo on closer to speed four, and they’re considered to be the best in the world. The one thing 3 has over 4 is that it’s the default out of the box speed, so more people will be used to playing it and it will require less people to adjust their timing for combos, links, etc in a tourney, which, overall, means that the quality of play will be more solid.
The more people you can get playing in their comfort zone, the better the play will be overall on any given day. Whether you like it or not, 80% of players play on the default speed for any game. What’s the point of changing the standard just to keep the other 20% happy, and diluting how well everybody else can play because they had to deal with a faster speed on tourney day.
Whatever about speeds, though, 16:9 versus 4:3 is a no contest IMO. The game is 16:9, deal with it and stop living in the past. It looks beautiful in widescreen, and i for one think the bigger sprites are fantastic. The amount of tiny niggles that widescreen stretching causes like characters briefly disappearing off screen on certain moves because of the decreased vertical depth happen so infrequently and are so inconsequential that it’s a non issue.
Turbo 3 and 16:9 all the way.
Hehe, I don’t know about the Widescreen off part…I think it was a typo by Cesar 
As for the whole speed issue. I’ve always been annoyed by the fact that Turbo 3 Online and in Training Mode is not the same as Offline Local Match Turbo 3. For the majority of people playing HDR, most of the time you play the game is done online or the moments you spend in training mode. So wouldn’t it be nice if the offline speed reflected that same speed? Having to “slowdown” the timing of wakeup reverals and links gets old. The real culprit is Backbone for not making sure the Local Match speed matched the training mode and online speed.
To those asking for Speed 3, since it was proven that HDR Offline Local Match Speed 3 is slower than Dreamcast ST Turbo 3…did all you guys feel that speed of the DC version on T3 was too fast? And to all those who used to play AE, did you feel that Turbo 3 was too fast as well?
Mackdaddi:
I agree with you on the comfort zone part. I would argue that most players’ comfort zone is the speed that they play on default, which “mostly” applies for T3 ONLINE and for Training Mode since that is when the majority of people play this game. Even in Socal, it’s not like there are daily offline HDR gatherings so in essence when you play online/in training mode, that is the default speed you are comfortable with. So wouldn’t you want that same feel and speed to apply to the moments you actually play offline? Ultimately the players wouldn’t have to “deal with faster speed on tourney day” as you stated, they would just be playing on the only speed they know. Thus, by using Speed 4 you would be playing on the speed your most comfortable/familiar with :china:
Ok, I think people are misunderstanding the whole proposal for Speed 4. The purpose of going to Speed 4 for ONLY Offline Local Matches is to create uniformity between the 3 distinctive modes of play for this game (online, training mode and offline). As it stands right now, offline T3 does** NOT MATCH** Training Mode T3 or Online T3. To me, this is the biggest issue with HDR for tourneys.
Here’s another analogy to further clarify this…imagine if the scene was still using DC ST and for some crazy reason the Versus Battle mode speed was different than the Game Start speed. Essentially, this difference of speed would mess up everyone who played this game on the versus battle mode when they would enter a tourney that only used Game Start Mode. Essentially this is the same issue at hand with HDR because Backbone didn’t make training mode and offline speed match.
Not only charge, fireballs and srk inputs are affected by game speed too, the same happens in Super Turbo.
Anyway, almost everybody is used to Speed 3 for HDR and Speed 2(american version) for Super Turbo.
Actually, almost nobody is used to US arcade T2 because that speed has never been used for any US tourney.
And what DGV is saying is that most folks aren’t used to offline HDR T3 because they’re practicing online all the time. It would be great if Rufus can provide the exact results. If not, it looks like I’ll have to perform another set of tests. It won’t happen anytime soon though.
I completely agree about how lame it is that speeds are different online vs offline. And not being able to change the speed in training mode is doubly frustrating. With that said, here’s my thoughts:
I’m the ONE guy that voted for speed 2. I did this because it’s the speed I would prefer we play the game at. HOWEVER, I don’t actually think we should switch to this, unless major tournaments did so first. Which brings me to #2.
I really, really, don’t think we should get too crazy in trying to come up with new rules for this game. The fact of the matter is that most people currently prefer playing on XBox, in widescreen, on speed 3. And yet, Evo was run on PS3 in 4:3 on speed 3. Devastation was run on PS3 in widescreen on PS3. Socal regionals was a mix of Xbox and PS3 and I think it was a mix of 16:9 and 4:3…but only because our HDTV got taken away. WCW was run on Xbox in widescreen on speed 3. And NCR was run on PS3 in 4:3(?) on speed 3. So only one out of the major tournaments in the past year on the west half of the US used the currently preferred US opinion. For this reason alone, I think it’s better to push for that standard then to introduce yet another variant. For the record, the Socal ranbats have always been Xbox, widescreen, 16:9…cause we know what’s good :wgrin:
I could be wrong. I haven’t done any tests. But I swear that training mode, which you can’t change the speed on(?!?!?), is slower than speed 3 online. Is the same as speed 3 offline? Is it somewhere in between the two? I don’t know. But I’m almost positive that it’s slower than online. I’ll do a test when I get a chance, but before that happens, try this: Go intro training mode and try Bisons 5 hit combo of j.RH, st.LK, cr.MK xx scissor. Practice that and then go online and play at speed 3 and try it. Tell me if that feels the same. Because to me that combo feels obviously slower in training mode. If my instinct is correct on this, then I don’t think that training mode speed is the same as online speed 3. So, I find that argument invalid for switching to speed 4 offline.
I do appreciate the argument that speed 3 online is faster than speed 3 offline and that’s what most people play. To me, that’s the only reasonable argument to use in wanting to switch to speed 4. HOWEVER, I strongly offer the counter argument that moving to speed 2 online is a better alternative to this solution. For starters, it removes the need for us to plead our case to the Evo, Devastation, MWC, SCR, NCR, WCW, etc. for them to change the speed. At the same time, I’d argue that it’d automatically make all the training online better. Back in ST’s heyday on GGPO the standard speed was US 2, but whenever you’d play Japanese people they often moved it down to speed 1. These speed choices minimized how much lag affected the game, even with GGPO’s superior net-code. On the flip side, I feel I’m very good at playing Sim vs Honda offline. But when I play HDR online at speed 3, with even minimal lag, the match becomes WAY more stupid. I eat all kinds of things I would never get bit by offline. So, in conclusion, I think slowing down the speed online will make people play more legit whereas speeding up the speed offline just encourages people to try nonsense.
So, in review, my suggestion is we do this:
Online: Speed 2.
Training: Can’t change it. But it feels closer Speed 3 offline than Speed 3 online to me.
Offline: Speed 3.
You can change the speed of training mode in the game settings menu that you get to from the start screen.
Online speed 3 is faster than offline speed 3, but in a way that isn’t really comparable to other turbo settings.
Online speed 2 and offline speed 3 would not be fast enough for me. Although that is a good case for not having to change major tourney settings. Offline speed 4 and online speed 3 is the way I prefer to do it. 4:3 display is the only way to play ST or HDR. I don’t mind HD graphics, but 16:9 messes up all the spacing and timing from years of playing ST. Changing the speed is one thing, we’re all used to it from fast CE to faster HF to slow Super to fast ST, but changing the aspect ratio of a 2-D game that hasn’t been changed in *decades *is not an option.
Personally I don’t mind speed 3 or 4. Generally the faster the better for me. However I tend to stick with speed 3 because it is the default, and I want to build my game around the speed that everyone else is using. Just check the player lobbies and the vast majority are speed 3.
Ya, Im with you guys 3 on the PS3 is just to slow, Every time i go to a tourney i just cant pull off anything with BISON but, at speed 4 im able to feel a lot more free and, able to move around and, not feel restricted because of the slow play of OFFLINE
That explains it. I haven’t played the PS3 version much because it’s rubbish, but when I have played it, I suck. I thought maybe it was because I was too used to the Xbox 360 pad. I assumed I’d be better on the PS3 because the pad is a bit more suited what with the D pad.
I might try it with turbo 4 later, but the lag is still going to kill it.
Except it is, because most people play on 16:9. Seriously, start playing in 16:9, you’ll get used to it in in 1-2 days tops, it’s not that big of a deal.
Also, SweetJV I get what you’re saying about trying to set a standard, but there’s plenty of time to do that before any major tournaments. So we really should be concentrating on just what that standard should be.
So I say we try Turbo 4 for this ranbat and see how people like it.
I completely agree with playing in 16:9. Enough of this corny 4:3 ratio.
As far as turbo 4, I wasn’t aware that offline’s speed is different than online. You guys are amazing for recognizing this. I didn’t vote because I’m not sure what’s best for the community. I hope this speed situation gets figured out.
16:9 isn’t a problem trying to get used to, but the problem is that not everyone can play in 16:9, as in not everyone’s TV supports it.
But my TV is old, so…
Speaking of the community, there are already a lot of OG ST fans that dislike HDR, and there are some that are sitting on the fence, waiting for just one more reason to completely reject HDR, and 16:9 ratio might be the reason. HDR needs all the players it can get to be successful, and it needs the ST OGs to increase the level of competition for the newcomers, so that everyone’s game is raised to a higher level. If you wanna talk about community, I believe that if every major tourney switched to 16:9 ratio, it will alienate even more OG players.
I’m not talking about those OGs that have already rejected HDR, I’m talking about those OGs that are still undecided, even after a year. If every major tourney sticks to 4:3 ratio, that will keep these OG fans around, and keep the community stronger IMO. Every poster in this forum is a HDR fan, no doubt, but we gotta be unselfish and think about how these decisions will affect the entire community, as well as those looking to get into or stay in the community.
That’s true. :wgrin:
Let’s try to keep the screen talk out of this thread as much as possible. Blitz, I hear what you’re saying, but the reality is that those guys/OG ST Loyalists have yet to even show up (for the most part) to tournies that are on 4:3. So, at this point, I’m think it’s highly unlikely that they will show up because the community made that “concession.” Which players are we specifically referring to? Then, what would be the timetable for said players coming around? Do we give them till MWC '10, or NEC '11 to finally come around before the community can move forward?
Anyway, those guys are primarily concerned with ST, some of us on the other hand are thinking about the bigger picture that is SF2. That being said, should they ever decide to join us, they will certainly be welcome.
Off to the Ranbat…
That’s why we have the polls IMO.
The majority of the players according to the polls prefer 16:9. We shouldn’t alienate the majority to cater to a few OG players who may not like HDR and probably plays it like 3 or 4 times throughout the year anyway.
If the OG’s REALLY cared about legacy ST, I think they should at least stay involved with HDR, since this will probably be the last version of ST to be in tournaments (At least in the US).
Didn’t Mr. Wizard already say if HDR is not accepted then no more ST?
If we care about tourney players, maybe we should restrict this poll to folks who actually go to tourneys (let’s say at least 2 since HDR’s release last year). I think that might show a different picture.
And I really don’t get why folks are trying to prevent others who don’t have lagless HDTVs from playing. For a long time before I got my Evo monitor, I had the choice between a laggy HDTV and lagless CRT. I eventually decided to exclusively use the CRT because I was getting killed by lag practicing on the HDTV (in addition to online lag).
So what are people who only have CRTs or only have laggy HDTVs to do? Adjust on the spot to the zoomed-in shaking screen? Doesn’t sound very fair to me to force 16:9 on everyone (something that’s hard to adjust to on the spot) just because you and me might be so privileged. Everyone can play on 4:3 and it’s been used in more tourneys because not every tourney can dedicate that many lagless 16:9 TVs to HDR.
I’ll be doing updates of the hdremix tourney here.
Hopefully my camcorder charges in time to record the final 3 matches.
–GCII