Played a decent gouken the other day and the matchup was closer then i thought, because of his demon flips (goukens demon flip throw apparently has incredible range, also helped by the fact you have to block his dive kick high so your head is always in the same spot) and his fireball is really quick, he can hold his own for long periods of time against sagat and nail his jumpins with air fb juggling with whatever he wants. When he pushed me to the corner it was tough, goukens ant air normal cr something the back hand move beats sagats jump ins clean and often unless you surprise him with a very early elbow and beat the startup. Also sagat can have some trouble with his block strings against goukens counter parry move as he can reversal through all your strings at any time because cr lk, cr lk is not a true string (?). Also gouken has a VERY good sweep, i found i had to fa and dash in throw or combo to punish it or st mk, or a st short but it seemed to beat out st short a lot. Match definitely didnt seem free to me, im not the greatest sagat player i admit but im capable i guess. Thoughts on the gouken matchup? Also if gouken gets you in the corner, its quite hard to to evade his fireball and palm pressure i found. Anyone else have thoughts on this matchup, maybe there’s somethign im missing that makes gouken easier to deal with, tiger knee pressure is also hard to maintain because if you mispace one you are gonna eat back throw ultra and he can counter hit your st short at random times.
6/4 Sagat. Gouken has to take serious risks to get in on Sagat and really has to try alot harder to read Sagat. Don’t misspace TK and you won’t get backthrown so easily. Simple stuff.
Gouken is most certainly not free though since he punishes mistakes hard and has some solid mix-ups. All blocked palms are free reversal TU’s unless spaced perfectly and all flips lose to jump back RH. If you don’t hit you are still safe. No reason not to do it everytime.
Palms and flips can be reacted to a full screen and it’s not even hard. Just pay attention. Gouken mostly does okl due to great damage on punishes and he has a vortex as well and Sagat has trouble with vortexes although Gouken’s is easier to deal with then most.
Oh i did not realise the palms were often reversible on block with tu. Yeh i found my play did evolve into jump back rh to deal with the flips, but dam his was nailing me with demon flip throws often lol, he must have been just really good at them or i was getting too predictable with tiger shots, prob a bit of both. Thanks for the tips.
One other thing, i got nailed by wakeup ex demon flip throw a lot by gouken as it has startup invincibilityand hes on your head really fast. Whats a good o/s for this thing, something like cr mp xx ts o/s st mp or jump back rh or even light tu?
pjj5001: you are right… i think EmblemLord and iloveb00ty are way wrong on this. some say dhalsim/vega has a good chance vs. sagat, but except for them, im quite sure akuma and chun would be on the list for the aboslute worse matchup for sagat.
i wouldnt say they’re wrong
sagat still has the advantage over chun due to his sheer damage output
but chun lis, when they get in or knock you down, are a handful and can srsly take advantage over sagat’s inferior close game (in comparsion to chuns)
her pokes >>>>>>>>> sagats pokes
Chun? The fuck? Gouki, Sim, Ryu are way harder. All Chun has is knockdown stuff and pokes and she needs to work for it. Ryu and Gouki can just link into a sweep for crying out loud.
gouki and ryu are harder matchups than chun i agree
i think chun and sim are about even in terms of difficulty tho
The first page is missing the most importamt thing in the Blanka matchup: you can punish EX upballs on block or hit with HK kara HP Tigger Uppercut. It IS possible to do the same with a regular blanka ball if blocked high, however it is exteremly difficult.
Blanka balls are punishable (lp,mp,hp,ex) with lk kara uppercut not hk(must be done at the max cancelables frames of the lk , and delayed a bit).Tiger knee crossup is easy vs blanka and safe vs wake up ultra.U can catch blanka rainbow ball , with fhk*2 the other way if u r fast enough , or catch him with close mp .
Sagat vs Chun is 6-4. I don’t understand how you’ve come to the conclusion that this match is even. I’d really like to hear why you think it’s 5-5 besides the fact she has good pokes. Sagat has ways to deal with Chuns pokes. Sagat is a beast with 1100, Chun has 900. Blocking 6 tigershots already takes 100 points away. Getting hit by an uppercut is damage she can’t afford to take. Also I don’t know where you got she bearly use fireballs vs Sagat. She needs those fireballs to stay alive and to put preasure.
Edit: Wow how clumsy. I only just read you saying you’d stick with 5-5 on the match up. But if you’re not sure why, I’ll let you know why it’s 6-4. :devil:
Slizzle: the only way chun would use a fireball vs. sagat is to neutralize a tiger-shot here and there, not to go in in a fireball WAR with him, and like u said, to pressure sometimes on his wakeup for example.
pokes, or should i say normals, having a solid good ground game is more than 50% of a game, so only having that isnt so little afterall, sure u have to do damage aswell… but if we’re talking sagat/chun specifics only, chun can also flipkick over tigershots on react, so he cant just spam tigers however he wants. sagat having 1100 health is not chun specific, sagat has 1100 health vs. everyone, and sagat is a beast no matter what and the strongest in the game, he bearly has any shitty matchups. but if u must mention his worse, id say chun is in that top5 list. no one cant afford taking damage from sagat.
im not really caring about the matchup number, he maybe only has 5-5 as worse (akuma) the rest 6-4 could still be argued who has better chance vs. him after akuma, and id say thats chun-li and ryu.
my god fighting against a good dhalsim can be a real test of patience often leading to infuriating nerd rage on my end.
sagat wins!!
what are your guys thoughts on the guile match up im really struggling with this matchup a fair bit. whats the key to this matchup isit rushing down or letting him come to you.
There are two deciding factors in how you should treat the Guile match-up.
A) If you know for a fact that the Guile player has a thorough understanding of Guiles normals and spacing then you want to shut him out. Keep him at the other end of the screen, where he has no way to do damage consistently apart from EX booms. You can obviously throw fireballs faster than he can charge his, but you have to be careful to not just throw them out without thinking. One mis-placed TS and Guile’s on your ass before you know it. Up close, this is where he wants to be. ([media=youtube]aE649y7mcHk&feature=PlayList&p=1484B1F53DBC0A57&index=44[/media])
B) If the Guile isn’t particularly sound with the normals and such, then by all means feel free to get in his face and cause him problems. ([media=youtube]lR8jJ79YJhI&feature=PlayList&p=1484B1F53DBC0A57&index=10[/media])
But in all honesty, this match is a bit of a weird one. It’s listed as 7-3, but it could go horribly south if you don’t know exactly what to do. As a rule of thumb my main objective in this match is to completely shut him out. TS all day. If he tries to get cheeky with a jump in, TU. Sounds easy, but it’s a match-up you have to play consistently to really get to grips with.
This match ain’t no 7-3. Guile can hang dudes. He really can. I call 6-4.
Yeah I’m really starting to agree man… a good Guile can be a problem at times.
It’s 6-4. Guile can fuck Sagat so hard. Especially without meter or if he gets you in the corner. This match up would easily be 5-5 if Sagat didn’t have EX tigers to push Guile back. Don’t throw high tigers up close - if they neutralize your high tiger with a boom then you’re eating a backfist or they can just simply crouch and backfist. Low tigers can be backfisted but they’re safer. Low tigers can only be hit if you neutralize the boom late but who would? lol. You can do shit like short low tiger kara knee and if they boomed it goes over. There’s just so much to talk about and tactics. You need to know your options and theirs if you block a boom. Guiles safest optons are either fierce, cr.MK, roundhouse, tick, b.MK - boom, b.MK bait your tiger reaction jump in toooooooo sick. How you can stop his normals there’s so much man.
Just send me a PM if you want more I don’t feel like typing it in here right now.
are there any asian sagat players who strolls these boards?
im a claw player looking for the matchup practice.please add me,my id is laxlight.
asians only please!
thanks.
laxlight wrong thread but ill add you anyway, praying its not going to be laggy.