Tiger Construction: Sagat Match-up Thread

System_1 · September 21, 2009, 4:38pm

Match-ups

Based on event hubs tier chart

Last updated: 11/30/09

Abel - 6/4

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Note: After reading the entry below, be sure to brush up on HAV’s counter points here: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7804441&postcount=41

From x Z 3 2 x:
I play against Abel the same way I play against Chun-Li. I am writing this, assuming that you have become proficient in performing your moves, techniques, strings, links, etc.

Keep the distance and spacing correct and try to make him pay for his little mistakes even if it’s for some chip damage. Another important thing is to knock Abel down. If you have a Tiger Option available, use TK or TU.

… Abel doesn’t have any good jump-in strikes besides his cross-up.
Just Tiger Uppercut him out of the skies, or use s.:hk:/:r:+:hk: to control the air.
After you make it clear that you control the air, he’s going to be forced to roll. Don’t be afraid to pressure him with Low Tiger Shots. The trick is to distance yourself properly so that if he rolls, you can hit him right at the edge of your s.:lk: (Tiger Option). This is also the distance where he cannot command throw you, or throw you. So even if he rolls past a Tiger Shot, you have the option and correct distance to TK him safely. If he rolls close to you, just throw him or get out of the way.

HAV counterpoint: Eh… As an Abel player, I gotta say, I’m not concerned at all with Tiger Shots. Abel jumps over or rolls through those easily. Either that, or I focus them. Having Abel focus or roll your Tiger Shots really isn’t good for you. As I focus or roll, I’m building one of my meters that will allow me to completely shut down your fireball game. EX Wheel Kick goes through fireballs, so I don’t have to wait until I get Ultra to punish you for throwing them. Obviously, allowing me to focus your Shots builds me meter for the Ultra, which shuts down a large part of your game. Throwing fireballs builds your meter, sure… but at the expense of building Abel’s, which, IMO, is more important in the match-up.

Your tricks to deal with Abel’s rolls won’t work on a good Abel. I’ll just roll through your Shot, and end at a range that doesn’t really benefit you at all. Too far to hit me… too close to attempt another Tiger Shot… a pretty good range for me, and you just… gave it to me… for nothing, really. This is not the range where you want to be against Abel. Too much can go wrong here for you.

Once he’s got his Ultra meter. It is a good idea to become aggressive and attack him. The reason why I say this is because Abel has the ability to play Rock, Paper, Scissors with you. If he has the option to Ultra through your Tiger Shots. This, gives him the ability to become VERY aggressive. Abel’s attack options consist of all three CQB (Close Quarter Battle) attacks.

…Strike, Throw, and Command throw. Yes, he is like a mini-gief, except not as predictable because he can FADC out of certain moves. This usually poses as a threat after his :mk: dash-in or cross-up. Abel has way too many options to hurt you if he engages you with EX meter. So keep your eyes on that.

HAV counterpoint: If you wait for Abel to get Ultra, and then get aggressive… you’ll lose to any decent Abel. By the time Abel gets Ultra, you either want to have a good lead to lame him out, or you wanna be already playing aggressively, and have Abel knocked down on his ass, so you can keep up okizeme pressure. Waiting for Abel to get meter, and then going in allows Abel to thwart your attempts to get in, and land his Ultra a lot easier.

… Your TU will beat out everything besides his… block.

**HAV counterpoint:**Yes, and no. Sure, it will beat any attack, but smart Abel’s know you wanna uppercut when the going gets tough. Smart Abel’s will sprinkle in their roll into the offense when they anticipate TU’s and will punish you HARD. Don’t rely on this move too much. Obviously, it’s good in a lot of scenarios, but it can also be your downfall.

STAY OUT OF THE CORNER!
Abel will mix you up all day with his cross-up, if you get caught in the corner. He can cross-up :mk: and CQB you to death. This is because his Tornado throw will throw you back in the corner. And since you cannot Quick Stand after a throw, he will be given the option to correctly time his cross-up every time he lands it on you.

Your main focus of this match is dependant on how well you can zone him (the obvious), and how well you can profit from hunting him down when he has his Ultra.

The reason why I say you should become more aggressive when he has his Ultra is because of your ability and ease to be more explosive/random with TU FADC. Unless he baits for it. Most Abel players land their Ultra through a poor Tiger Shot, or after c.:hp: to launch you.

Study it, and notice how most of the methods used to land his Ultra are from CQB FADC c.:hp:. While he can still c.:hp: you if you jump-in, it’s risky for Abel because Sagat’s j.:mp: is a good tool to stuff it out, possibly leading to TU FADC Ultra.

Last thoughts:

Find the areas that he uses to play Rock, Paper, Scissors. Stop or avoid it.
If he’s sitting comfortably in front of you, he’s in good rolling or cross-up distance.
If you get caught by his c.:hp: roll c.:hp: roll combo. After the second roll, it’s rock, paper, scissors.
Keep your rhythm, because it’s harder for Abel to keep his. Tiger Uppercut FADC is the best rhythm interrupter tool in the game. Use it wisely[/details]

Akuma - 5/5 [need data]

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Spoiler

Balrog (Boxer)- 6/4

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From m2dave:

Dash Straight (Charge b, f+P). The LP and EX versions are safe on block, especially when only the tip of Boxer’s glove is blocked. The Dash Straight is the most used special move for strings because the LP version is very safe when performed from the right distance.
Dash Upper (Charge b, f+K). The LP Dash Upper along with the EX version are safe on block. The rest are punishable by an HP Tiger Uppercut. This special move whiffs entirely if you are crouching.
Dash Low Smash (Charge b, df+K, armor break). When in range, all version (beside the EX version) are punishable by an HP Tiger Uppercut.
Dash Low Straight (Charge b, df+P). All variations of this move with the exception of the EX version are punishable by Sagat’s st.HK if Boxer is close enough. This attack must be blocked low.
Dash Swing Blow (Charge b, df+P (hold P), armor break). All versions of this move are punishable on block by an HP Tiger Uppercut. This attack must be blocked high since it is an overhead. Train yourself to block this move on reaction. When the EX Dash Swing Blow successfully hits Sagat, Boxer may not follow up with cr.LPs for a combo; however, cr.LKs and cr.HKs still connect.
Turn Around Punch (TAP) (Hold PPP/KKK then release, armor break). This attack has invincibility frames on start up, which may be used to go through fireballs. The first release is safe at -2 on block against Sagat. All other releases can be punished by an HP Tiger Uppercut.
Be careful when punishing. Boxer can FADC all of his special moves with the exception of the Buffallo Headbutt (Charge d, u+P).
While blocking his ultra combo, you can interrupt him before the last hit ever comes out using your own ultra combo or even a regular Tiger Uppercut. This does not seem to work with his super combo, though.
Boxer can be thrown out of any EX rush attacks. Sagat’s st.HK can stuff them as well when timed properly. Beware of EX Dash Straight (Charge b, f+PP). If only the tip of this attack is to hit, you will get punished if you try to throw or stuff him with a st.HK.
Respect his ultra combo. He can buffer it from a forward dash and punish you if you throw Tiger Shots carelessly. Fake Tiger Shots using QCB+P to make it harder on him.
Boxer’s offense is annoying to say the least. Expect a barrage of cr.LPs into tick throws. His footsie game is also one of the best in the game because his movement is very fast. Boxer players like to dance around at mid range and throw out cr.HKs, st.HKs, st.HPs, and st.LPs. He has no cross up attacks from the air. However, Boxer players still like to “fake” cross ups and throw you or use cr.LPs upon landing on the other side. One thing to note is that a Buffallo Headbutt may be used to create cross up scenarios in corners. Also, you NEVER want to be cornered by Boxer. It can be really hard to get out.
Too bad that Boxer’s defense is not as scary as his offense! He is kind of “free on wake up”, as EmblemLord would say. If you time a meaty cr.LK correctly (which should recover in 6 frames), there is nothing Boxer can do to hurt you. All of his Headbutt special moves are 11 frames. They are too slow to hit Sagat. EX Headbutt is also 11 frames. Too slow. Boxer’s super combo is 10 frames. Too slow. Boxer’s ultra combo is 11 frames. Again, too slow. Good Boxer players will most likely start backdashing then. Use that opportunity to punish them with a jump in attack or a kara LK Tiger Knee (f+HK version). Kara HP Tiger Uppecut (f+HK version) probably works as well.
Because Sagat is no match for Boxer’s superior up close and footsie game, you must zone him. Stick to throwing a lot of LP and LK Tiger Shots at Boxer. The reason for this is to hopefully recover in time when he does an EX rush attack or a TAP. Do not be afraid to use Tiger Uppercuts on reaction. If Boxer absorbs a LP Tiger Shot and you recover in time, use an HP Tiger Uppercut to punish him. Same thing with the TAPs, which are particularly slow at 30 frames. Bait him by throwing LP or LK Tiger Shots. Then when he goes for the TAP, react to it and counter him with an HP Tiger Uppercut.
Boxer is one of those characters whom f+HK will miss a lot on after Tiger Uppercut -> FADC. This even happens a lot to Mago. If in doubt, just do the ultra combo immediately after FADC’ing.

**Addendum (Anotak): **This is because he falls slower, so keep this in mind that if you want it to hit, you have to put it in later.
Coincidentally, because he falls slower, in the corner you can EX Tiger Knee -> Ultra him (dhalsim too, nobody else afaik). Works the same as EX tiger shot ultra, does more damage though. Great way to finish the match if they’re at low life. You don’t get the full ultra because it’s the corner though, just like with EX shot -> ultra.

Focus attacks are good against Boxer because he likes to stick out heavy attacks at mid range, such as cr.HKs and st.HKs.
This is a match up in which kara LK and MK Tiger Knees (f+HK versions) are useful because Boxer players like to hold d/b at certain distances waiting for you to make the first move, so they can react to it and punish you. Kara Tiger Knees will give them something to think about, and they also allow you to create some space. Be careful with too many Tiger Knee strings, though. While a regular Buffallo Headbutt may trade with the Tiger Knee in strings, an EX version will surely out-prioritize you leading to a possible ultra combo leading to the corner, which is not where you want to be against this character.
Speaking of corners, do not panic. Do not spam Tiger Uppercuts. Stay solid on defense. Stay patient. Understand that getting out will not be easy. It will take some time before a chance arises to escape.
Recent Videos:

Mago (Sagat) vs. R-Chan (Boxer)

[media=youtube]3rFrVNPWtf4[/media]

Mago (Sagat) vs. Marn (Boxer)

[media=youtube]mGnFh_duj78[/media]

Mago (Sagat) vs. Belbeljin (Boxer)

[media=youtube]KydzzIlk9as[/media]

Tough match up for Sagat because Boxer will definitely test your defense. However, Sagat has the advantage due to his excellent zoning tools and his higher damage output. 6:4 match up favoring Sagat.

From Thegame4ever: This match is about keeping rog away, and if he comes close to make him wish he hadn’t. If a bit farther than midscreen throw low tiger shots and high to catch him when he tries to advance with headbutt, and if around midscreen throw slow and fast tigershots to mess his timing on his turnpunch. Watch out for his EX, you can either s.RH (doesn’t work on all his ex punches for two hits), medium kick tigerknee (breaks focus and hits ground), or my personal favourite backwards grab. Throw them to the other side to get your fireball pressure restarted, and make him work to close in again.

Up-close tigerknee pressure can be used to great effect against rog, his hitbox seems to be perfect, just standing far jab, tigerknee light, repeat. The standing far jab catches them if they try to jump (as opposed to standing light kick), hits them when crouching or standing, and is the correct distance for safe tiger knee. However if he blocks your tigerknee standing i believe you can be punished, so be cautious. In the corner he can be trapped with tiger knees, after each tiger knee or before you perform one, look out for ex headbutt and act accordingly. And don’t forget your TU deep, since it beats any jump-ins rog tends to use. Also word of advice, do not focus, if he is jabbing it will beat you, and many of his attacks break focus. Also when knocked down do not go for a cross, he can headbutt away safely. Simply attack him head on with an overhead, low lightkick, or grab, and watch out for his headbutt reversal.

Rog can also catch you with a dash ultra if you throw a tigershot and he anticipates it, so if he has an ultra do not be predictable with tigershots and throw them sparsely.

From Thegame4ever: When you’re zoning and he TAPs at a distance, you can TK medium kick. If he’s still in recovery he’ll get hit, if not and blocks you’re safe. Up close be careful and throw high shots, and change the speeds. If he manages to TAP hopefully through your high shot TU immediately, dash cancel shenanigans.

From Creazn:
I’ve tested the cr. HP against Boxer and it’s very effective. It’s safer than the st.HK. It’s because ur crouching. You can easily punish his dash attacks. If I’m not mistaken almost all his dash attacks. [/details]

Blanka - 6/4

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Spoiler

From theplaygroundlegend:
I’ll keep this short and sweet, because honestly, I have no idea why this was ever considered a bad match for sagat.

Like every character, find out of your opponent has a 3 frame move… Blanka does not. That means up close you can spam crouching lp into ts to push him back and there’s nothing he can do about it.

At the start of the match I dash backwards. This is the best way to start the match. Most blanka’s will do a lp blanka ball into grab, or start with a slide. If you back dash he can’t do either and he’s open for punishment. He also can’t jump in on you or do anything really. The reason why you don’t jump back is because on the way down you can be hit by a fierce blanka ball. Dash back is your best option.

During the match spam low ts’s, all day. Make blanka want to jump in - tiger uppercut him. That alone… is enough advice to never lose to blanka.

Punish his blanka balls with tu’s on reaction, the damage adds up. If you see an EX blanka ball coming, block high, punish with low EX ts.

If he does rainbow ball (comes at you in an arc motion) you can focus, dash up and combo him - or block, then raw ultra him. Depending on the distance, the rainbow ball can be a cross up - but can be punished the same. Just block accordingly.

if your tiger uppercut reaction timing is weak, you can focus attack jump ins because blanka jumps high, and his roundhouse puts his long feet out first. By the time you absorb the hit, and he lands, you have already released focus and he’s crumpled.

Like most matches, do not jump. Especially in this matchup.

Do not cross him up on wakeup, the noob will spam punch and shock you or blanka ball with up + kick for a hit.

All you have to do is zone, and when he’s in slide distance, fake tiger shots. As much as you can focus attack and punish a slide, I wouldn’t hold focus at slide distance, too many of blanka’s moves do armor break and he also has that dash move where he hops in your face and can grab you before you can release focus (fwd + 3 punch). Also, depending on the distance of the slide, it’s safe on focus. Only a deep slide can be punished with a focus attack. It’s just not worth focusing in this matchup really when you have so many better options to choose from.

Blanka’s ultra is a joke unless your opponent can do the ambigous cross up ultra on your wakeup. But, then again, I only met 1 person who could do this right. This is how you block the normal ultra.

startup: block low because the ground is shocked - you don’t take damage at this point, but you get stunned and can’t move.
2nd phase: block high, this is when the blanka ball ultra leaves the ground. If you block low you will get hit.
3rd phase: block low again
Punish with your ultra right back.

Also - a lot of people get chipped to death from blanka’s ultra. If you have ultra, you can ultra him back for free. Do your ultra so you can hit him when the blanka ball is in the air, go to training mode and practice this. You will never lose to him again.

From Remixnzza:
Blankas love to do River Run (that slide move) so when you’re in that range, use focus to absorb -> free ultra. Smart Blankas will use ball to break your focus, so be prepared to cancel out of it. To land the focus, wait till he hits you with the slide, then wait an extra second before releasing. If you release too early, you will whiff.

Also, Blankas love to do full screen EX-ball hoping to catch you in the middle of a TS. If you block high, then do reversal EX-TS, it is a guarantee hit. The timing is strict, and you MUST block high. Blocking low doesn’t work because you will still be in hit stun. This has something to do with the fact that when you block high your hit box size changes, and Blanka’s ball hits at a different active frame, thus giving you enough time to get the EX-TS off before he recovers.

Also, if Blanka does Ultra at point-blank range, you can use EX-TU to get over it and not take the chip damage. Sometimes you can even trade, but the timing for trading is difficult.

From TheGame4Ever:
For ambiguous cross-up, there’s a Blanka player here that does it nearly every time. After a forward throw, walks up a bit and unleashes ultra. It’s a 50/50 mixup, you can’t tell where it’s going really, you can try guessing, but sometimes what was a cross before at the same distance isn’t now. I was in training with this Blanka trying it out and I couldn’t guess correctly each time no matter how many times we did it, it truly is 50/50. If you’re in that situation and you have an EX bar try ex shoryuken to get out since you don’t want to get caught in guessing, but sometimes the ex shoryuken goes out the direction the ultra was going, and you’ll be hit by his ultra on the way down.

Also for a blocked ultra, to punish with most damage, after you’ve blocked low then high, block low again, and as soon as his last hits finish with the ultra and you’re in a crouching poisition, f+rh twice immediately then ultra for maximum punish. You have to be in a crouching position at the end of his ultra or your f+rh won’t connect. And if no ultra, just f+rh twice ex hado etc.

From Creazn:
Against Blanka, like PlaygroundLegen said, I spam the crap out of Blanka with low TS, but I also use many short jabs (cr. and st.) between the shots. When they do their horizontal roll I just jab them out of their roll, even EX rolls! (but it’s better to block and do the low EX TS). Most Blanka players will fall for it, because they rely very much on their rolls. Normally I turtle a lot in slide range: when they roll I jab them out of it, when they jump in I TU them, when they slide I punish them with a combo or just TU/TK/Throw. In mid range or close range it’s difficult to time the TU right, a short jab is much safer. You can also roundhouse (fw.HK) and Ultra the rainbow roll (backwards roll).

Learn the BL players habits. Most players use different routines to attack. A good blanka I’ve played crosses up really nasty and is hoppin left and right making you guessing wether he will throw, cr. HK or smthin else. Even he had a pattern and many times I could TU him or just throw him when he was doing it.

Cammy - 6/4

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From r00ster: if she cannon drills from far away do a focus attack and just tiger uppercut her aerials. That should about do it if you get a trade or a focus crumple you can take 30%+ from poor old cammy. Be careful about using to many tiger shots if she focuses one and then does her ultra and catches you it can hurt
From PGL:
HOLD BLOCK

You are probably getting fucked up by jab jab short spiral arrow cannon spike, cancel, cannon spike nonsense. just fucking block!

Throw low tiger shots all day, make her jump, DP her.
Don’t jump in at her, she has a DP move.
Hooligan throw: HOLD DOWN BACK, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN TO YOU. PROMISE!!!
Bait random cannon spikes.
“The only consistent thing I’ve seen is punishing her Cannon Drill with a tiger uppercut.” no shit, your TU is an anti-air. her cannon drill comes from the sky (might have the terms mixed up, but i think spiral arrow is low, cannon spike is a dp, and cannon drill is that aerial looking spiral arrow).
I assume you’re playing on xbox live and getting whooped up on… That being the case, don’t try to throw her, the kid on the other end of the interwebs is mashing DP whenever you’re close and you keep getting hit… block!
When you block her super and ultra, block low.

From Neemo6: Kara tu (hk version) connects after blocked cannon spike. [/details]

System_1 · September 21, 2009, 4:40pm

Chun Li - 6/4

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From Thegame4ever:
You win the fireball war hands down, and ChunLi has a nice high jump giving you plenty of time to react to a TU. Up close chuns after throwing a fireball or seeing you throw one like to do flip kick over hadouken and hit you. If a Chun is up close I keep focusing and backdashing. If they happen to flip kick you can give em your focus combo of choice, even if it’s EX. Just keep zoning for the first part of the match. The second part is when they have ultra, meaning you can’t zone as well as you like. An important thing to pay attention to when they have ultra is if they walk forward. This means they have lost the charge to perform an ultra, so in this case throw your hadouken, most chuns relish the fact the opponents dont throw any hadoukens at all when they have ultra, but show them you know exactly when to throw it and they’ll start to just camp and not walk, meaning it’s time for you to attack. On knockdown if Chun has no meter it’s free pressure, but if she has meter try to bait her EX spinning kick by doing an early empty jump as a cross, jumping neutral MK, or doing a short, then blocking. You can either sweep to continue okizeme pressure, or tiger uppercut.[/details]

Crimson Viper - 5/5

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From PlayGroundLegend: I start each round off with a jumping fierce punch in her direction. Now, I never start off with a move in a match unless it’s:

I normally just walk back casually and assess the situation.

In this match up it makes sense. I like to stay close to her. If you’re far away she has more options, sorta like Akuma. You can try to fireball her when she seismo’s full screen, but it could be a fake seismo feint into mahvel jump flame kick. So I take the guessing out of the match, and rush her down.

So, if my jumping fierce punch meets her in the air, I’m close and I already did damage, sweet. If she’s on the ground and blocks, it’s st.lk into knee / ts. Or if hits her on the ground, combo her. 99% of vipers walk back off the start or jump in the air trying to get a quick knock down. They usually don’t expect a sagat jump in.

I always approach each match as follows. Does the player have a 3 frame move? http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/...)#Frame_Data no she does not that means, up close I have the advantage.

Her advantage up close is that she has hella safe block strings and you can’t focus attack her up close for fear of thunder knuckle. Sorta like how you can’t charge focus in front of sagat because you will eat a fat tiger knee to your dome piece. The viper cop out up close is an ex seismo that leaves you invincible - and most scrubs want to punish it, throw out a limb, get caught, get ultra’d.

Her best options are when you are on the ground. This starts the “ambiguous cross-up” flame kick bullshit. Basically, if she does the head shock, and stands still, then flame kicks, it will hit in front of you, block normally. If she takes a step back, or forward, it’s a cross up flame kick. It’s hard to judge it if you try to look at the move because the fire effect makes seeing anything fucking impossible, so you have to study the character in order to know how to beat her, like fuerte, shit is stupid. That’s why when people say I’m lame for playing sagat I tell them to eat a dick because I had to learn matchups, so I know how to play 8 other characters proficiently. There are some things match videos and forum posts won’t teach you. Spacing.

[Addendum]
Lost Fragment: You can do both a front and back flame kick without moving. But you still need to watch how she moves when you re knocked down all the same because of her j.rh. If she takes a slight step forward before jumping, the rh will cross up. If she stays still or steps back, it’ll hit in the front. But yeah, her movement isn’t that good an indicator on where the flame kick will hit. You’re better off using focus if you’re certain she’s gonna do a flame kick.

You need to learn her block strings, and you can’t mash DP during them, just don’t do it. If there was ever a match where you don’t want to get caught mashing DP it’s this one, and seth, both characters are stun machines. It’s not worth it. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=175007 read this thread.

I know you really want to, but you can’t use tiger uppercut in this match, unless it’s a kara dp with meter or a random dp with meter trying to land your ultra. If she jumps in, she can always spam flame kick and move out of the way, you basically have to guess if a DP would work or not, and if you guess wrong you eat a combo for stun damage, and then you’re on the ground, leading to more combos and more stun till you see birdies.

The majority of her combos start low, but viper has an overhead attack, so you can’t just crouch block all day. Thing is, the overhead is slow as shit and you see it coming from a mile away. The match up ends up being sorta like a cammy match where you are crouch blocking strings, and guessing when to tech a throw, guess wrong get combo’d, block wrong get thrown on the floor. So the best bet is to be putting the pressure on yourself, and not letting the skinny skank put pressure on you.

Also, F.rh is amazing in this match, because the hoe always wants to jump, but you can’t DP her - and she knows it. She has properties like rufus, gief, honda that make double f.rh almost a 100% constant if you land the first f.rh. You can just throw out random f.rh and be safe with it, because if you throw out f.rh and you end up close enough to her, you can TU on recovery and cancel to safety or cancel into ultra. I would also avoid laggy normals in this matchup. I prefer cr.mp > cr.mk in this match because it comes out as quickly as standing lk and faster than cr.mk. Normally Im a cr.mk kinda guy.

Her best ultra setup is in the corner. I think it’s ex seismo, flame kick, land, ultra. That’s her version of TU fadc ultra. Always be on the look out for that. Also, if you jump in at her, and she uppercuts you, she can uppercut you clean - then ultra you, or trade - dash up and ultra you - or just DP you 2x in a row. So when you get in the corner people always get caught with an ultra one way or the other. Guys get scared, and want to jump out - DP’d ultra. Others try to TS her back or throw out a mk etc. - ex seismo flame kick ultra. Others hold crouch block all day, get cross up flame kicked into ultra too. Just block, perhaps EX knee out of there and grab her - put her in the corner, then reset the match.

I also like to play like an asshole at full screen. I spam fake kicks, jump around back and forth, hold focus, dash out, hold focus release it. Spam crouch. Just do a bunch of stupid shit with my buttons. Basically, I mimic my opponent who’s spamming seismo feints as if to say “You aren’t fooling me, this is how dumb you look - now come fight me pussy.” Also, I never really TS in this match. If I’m really “feeling myself” against a viper player in a tourney, I’ll stop my pressure and throw 3 tiger shots in a row, the kinda that once your first is finished, the 2nd one comes out. The predictable kind. Once I throw the third, I never throw another for the rest of the match. Also, at full screen, they are used to me doing my stupid shit and not tossing fireballs, sometimes it’s not bad if you have the health lead to throw a low EX ts. If she seismo’s you trade, and the trade is in your favor damage wise - and health wise because she has 900 and you have 1200. It’s a win from both perspectives.

If your opponent keeps doing cr.mk into thunder knuckle, just wait it out, it recovers really quick, and does a shit ton of stun. They can do this 3-4x in a row if they feel like it, just block, don’t mash dp, you will get caught.[/details]

**Dan - 7/3 **

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From theplaygroundlegend:

Dan isn’t as bad as people make him out to be, he actually owns dhalsim free, whereas it’s a bit harder for sagat haha; but against sagat the battle is hopelessly in sagat’s favor. There are some things you need to know though.

To beat him, just zone him. Nothing else. Dan’s silly looking fireball can’t compete with sagat at all. Punish jump ins with s.rh or tiger uppercut. Do not focus in his face as his hurricane kick breaks focus. Do not jump in at him because he has a DP.

Dan can land ultra from a combo, cr. forward into ex fireball links his ultra. Watch out for that. His ultra goes through fireballs as well. His ultra CAN BE FOCUS ATTACKED which is hilarious! Also, he can ultra cancel his super taunt. That’s when he has full super bar, uses it for a taunt, then goes right into ultra whenever he feels like it because you wanted to punish him.

basically, if he gets in on you, you did something wrong. This match comes down to basics. Fireball, uppercut. If you can fireball and uppercut you will never lose. Just watch out for those unknown ultra tricks I just showed you.

Kinda pointless to mention in a sagat thread as he should never be able to do this on you… but he can do lk hurricane kick, hit you safely with 1 hit from it on block, then go for a grab.[/details]

Dhalsim - 5/5

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From Thegame4ever:
Ahh this can be a very annoying match. You have to use all your concentration and play very carefully. I tend to turtle and use EX tiger shot when I see a yoga flame for my damage. If he yoga flames only time you should throw tiger shot is with EX. If he jumps do not use TU since he will most likely try to bait and teleport. Your goto anti-air with dhalsim is f+hk. He’ll most likely teleport back to avoid your roundhouse, simply standing roundhouse on his way down, or just block, since at that range his attacks will beat out your f+rh but not s.rh. If he teleports behind you when you f+rh, just standing rh should hit him. Throw dumb uppercuts sometime, but the dhalsim player if good won’t just randomly throw his limbs. S.rh can beat his air-to-ground attack with his limbs clean, but the dhalsim player can catch on and use his air kick later to beat your s.rh clean, so you have to be careful. Also for tigerkneed teleports, standing mp will beat him clean, and allow you to pressure. If he does ultra just jump away and don’t take that shit, and if he teleports behind you jump over that ultra, you do not need to block it. If you block his super at close range you can punish with TU, if not close it’s safe on block for him, so be careful. His ultra has nearly instant recovery, so don’t jump at him when he does it, simply away, wait it out. If he does it close range and you have no option but to block, he’ll go for low high mixup, his high being jumping arms, or low being his low distance arm attack, or simply pressure you upclose. He can’t grab you if you’re blocking ultra don’t forget, so just pay attention to sim and the mixups he’ll do. Also annoying thing is when he throws a yoga fire on your okizeme, then teleports. He can either teleport behind you, or teleport in a way that’s makes you block as if it’s a cross, but the yoga flame pushes you BEHIND dhalsim’s teleport area, making it something you have to block normal again. Be very careful of this move, it can be very annoying to block correctly, but if you start playing the match you’ll adapt to which is the cross or his fake cross.

If you manage to score a knockdown all you need is standing light kick, hard kick hadouken. Dhalsim loves to teleport to escape from pressure, if he teleports he gets hit by hadouken on recovery, if not he gets hadouken chip damage, and more pressure afterwards. Win-Win for you, and mix this up with jump-ins. Dhalsim will tend to stop teleporting on wakeup after you hit him with hadoukens from this setup. And never jump on dhalsim if he’s open, and if you do do it sparsely with jumping fierce. All his anti-air options can beat you clean, and his slide can be really annoying making you whiff entirely then punishing you. And do not do tigerknee pressure a lot, only once then another blockstring ending with low hadouken, since he can escape the pressure and punish you with one of his moves (not exactly sure what it is called, but compare it to ryu’s low middle kick). Play very patiently, hit the combos where it matters most, and EX tiger shot him for every yoga flame he does.[/details]

E. Honda - 7/3

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From jewelman: Honda’s ex buttslam beats all versions of tiger knee and uppercut

From PlayGroundLegend:

Some Honda’s will turtle at the opposite side of the screen, keep their charge, and wait for you to do something, when you do that “something” they just hit 1 button, countered lol. You have to be patient to play Honda. I noticed he would stand in the corner and whif oicho throw, not until the 5th time I played him did I notice that it gives him super meter (yeah I’m slow). When I’d throw a TS, he would focus it, and dash back. And continue to build meter. So basically in 25 seconds he has ultra and close to super. Then he starts to approach me. DANGEROUS!!

1a. Honda’s ultra goes through tiger shots from 3/4 screen. Don’t throw TS from that distance.

1b. Honda’s super goes through tiger shots from 3/4 screen. Don’t throw TS from that distance,

Disclaimer: It could be my imagination but I think either his super or ultra goes farther than the other, again I am saving my write up for after tuesday (have a big test I gotta take) and I’ll do my own research, in the mean time, u guys check that out.

Solution: Oicho throw whiffs have a long recovery. So what I did was this. Go to the other corner of the screen, crouching like I’m gonna throw TS. Instead of throwing TS’s all day and playing into his strategy I did this. I ONLY threw a ts when I saw him whiff oicho for meter, otherwise he just focus absorbed my TS and gains meter and he’s too far away for me to hit him and get that life down.

Honda’s jumping neutral fierce punch looks like he moves a bit forward in the air while doing it. Sorta like gief’s crouching medium kick, or sagats crouching medium kick. He can perform a move, and move at the same time, allowing him to close in safely.

Solution: Although I lost my match in the 3on3 tourney, I did do 1 smart thing so I couldn’t look completely embarrassed. When you throw a low TS, honda can neutral jump fierce punch, when you throw a high tiger shot he will duck. I trained weaksauce to jump everytime I threw a low tiger shot. So I did the following. Low tiger shot, FADC, forward round house, forward round house BUT unfortunantely I couldn’t land the ultra because honda fell in such a way that he was too far away for the ultra to connect so I didn’t execute the ultra combo, I never got another chance to use it and I lost the round and the match but I still got a chance to do 1 smart thing at least.

Tip: FADC’ing low ts’s is crucial in this matchup, if you were looking for an excuse to use this trick for a practical purpose outside of mind games, you now have it.

Honda’s jump in fierce punch seems to beat standing Hark kick, sorta like how giefs jump in fierce beats standing hard kick, however, I am not sure if this is distance specific. Also, a good honda will jump in fierce punch at a safe distance, this is trouble. What do I mean? He jumps in from close enough that F. RH can’t hit him, and standing RH will get stuffed BUT it’s too far away to do a tiger uppercut (if you do you’ll wiff it), honda’s jumping fierce has a long reach. When he lands, he’s in your face, now you have to do the hard battle. You are in range for all of his charge attacks, standing round house (that low far reaching kick) or if you’re in the corner, prepare for slap spam or a take down.

Possible solution?: Tiger knee? someone check that.

When you are knocked down, you have a few things you need to consider:

4a. Will I be grabbed?

Standard counters apply, just tech or TU if you know he is gonna do it for sure. Best bet is option select… BUT! read below.

4b. Will I be jabbed then combo’d with hundred hand slap FADC oicho/hundred hand slap. Or jabbed, blocked, then oicho thrown?

You try to option select but you get hit with his jab since he didn’t go for the throw, after the hit you get oicho thrown. back to the floor again Or you get jabbed, hundred hand slapped, FADC more hundred hand slaps / oicho.

You try to ride it out and not do anything, he jabs, you block it, you get oicho thrown after the blocked jab.

4c. Will I be head butted?

If you try to option select tech, your crouching short comes out, and you eat a safe EX head butt from up close. Back to the floor again.

4d. Will I be butt smashed on wake up?

You try to option select tech, your crouching short comes out, you eat butt smash first hit on the way up, then get hit again on the way down. Back to the floor… again

4e. Will I be butt smashed with the 2nd hit coming down as I wake up?

He does the butt smash while you are still on the floor, so as you wake up you have to judge if the 2nd hit coming down is going to be a forward hit or a cross up.

Solution: Didn’t test this 100% but you can just focus and dash out. BUT there’s a problem with that, see the next point I make.

4f. You wake up - and try to back dash so you can’t be thrown, jabbed, oicho’d BUT you now eat an EX head butt (possible standard head butt) for free

Back to the point I made in 4e. If you focus the 2nd hit of the butt slam, and dash forward or back - we have found out that dashing is not safe and you will eat a head butt (again, not sure if it’s only ex or any head butt that will hit you).

4g. Ok, you’re pissed off, you think to yourself “ok, if I neutral jump I can’t get head butted, grabbed, combo’d, oicho’d, tick thrown… I’m gonna do it!” Guess what? You just got butt slammed. Honda’s butt slam goes up and out at a 45 degree angle, then it comes down for the 2nd hit. The first hit of the butt slam will knock you out of the air.

Solution: I got so frustrated that I took my hands off of the arcade stick, turned my chair so I was facing Kevin, and basically (while the game was still going) ranted on the stuff you just read, but then it hit me. If you want to get away from Honda, you need to jump TOWARDS Honda, weird huh? Kevin smiled as if to say now you get it. What I mean is this, if he is close to you on wake up, cross him up. Not 100 percent safe but it’s the most effective. If you jump over him, he can’t butt slam you, he can’t anti air LP head butt you, he can’t grab you, tick throw you, oicho throw you AND best of ALL, he loses his charge.

4h. You decide to just sit there and block. You then get tossed, oicho tossed, cross up splash, over head. etc.

Solution: Don’t just sit there, do something. I don’t condone doing things for no reason, but turtling when Honda is in your face is gonna get you hurt.

These above problems make the matchup similar to gief, if you get knocked on the ground you gotta ride it out and analyze your opponents tendencies.

Do not jump in at Honda unless you plan on crossing him up. His light punch head butt acts like a DP, it’s great anti air.
You are in a bad spot. You have room behind you to get clear of Honda’s up close game. You decide to jump back. GUESS WHAT? You just ate a head butt.

Solution: If you do decide to jump back, I found that jump back medium kick would safely (with proper timing) stuff the head butt for free, except there is still a problem. Head butt moves Honda forward, so you are still in the same scenario you were in a second ago - except now there is less room to retreat back to AND you are about to get skull fucked by Honda’s corner game (for those who don’t know Honda’s corner game is the equivalent of Sagat’s long range game, you get what I’m saying?).

Tiger knee is your friend from medium range.
Standing light kick into low tiger shot is your friend from closer than medium range, but further than up close footsies game. (Saw mago spamming the above whenever in that situation).
Honda is one of the easiest players to land a forward round house on, if not the easiest. If your opponent decides to jump towards you after a low TS, instead of jumping neutral and fierce punching, do your forward round house (of course he has to be at the right distance).

Tip: Honda, for some reason, once he eats a forward round house you have a 99.9% chance of landing a 2nd forward round house for free, this can follow up into an ultra combo, low EX ts, EX knee.

Honda does a medium punch or fierce punch head butt - you block it. He is not safe! A kara canceled Forward hard kick into TU will hit him, you need to do the kara version because it makes the range of the uppercut bigger. You cannot punish EX head butt - that is safe on block, this does not work for lp head butt either (judge the punch based on the speed that Honda is moving at). Here is a video of Mago doing this.

Video:

Tip: f.lk kara is not the same as f.hk kara TU, you need to use the f.hk kara tu for this to work properly.

#10 is taken from the “punishing Honda’s blocked head butt” thread seen here:

Thread: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=197885

From Deviljin01:
Honda’s neutral/vertical j.HP can also move him backward or just keep him stationary.

Honda has always had a “controllable vertical/neutral j.HP”. He’s had it since all the way back during the old days. It’s basically his trademark ability for maneuvering around fireballs. You can hold forward or back during the j.HP to control where Honda lands as he is doing the neutral air fierce. This makes it very good for spacing him around the fireballs as he closes in. Just wanted to make sure nubs and scrubs don’t go “WTFOMG?!!!” when he starts moving in all kinds of directions during his neutral j.HP.[/details]

System_1 · September 21, 2009, 4:44pm

El Fuerte - 6/4

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[details=Spoiler]
From PlayGroundLegend: You want to be close to him, and corner him. he needs space to start his run into splash / grab. If you constantly walk forward, he’s kinda fucked. Then you get him in the corner. You wanna corner him like you corner seth, control the space and keep him contained, but don’t let him jump off the wall to safety.

Your options on wake up are as follows:

Focus attack - if he does splash you can back dash out. if he does grab you’re fucked.
Block, if you block properly you can punish a splash with TU fadc f.rh ultra. If he does grab you’re fucked. I have the most luck with this if it’s a cross up splash and I see it coming, it depends on how close he is to you on wake up, if he’s very close his splash will cross you up, block appropriately, and punish.
Jump back - if he does splash you take less damage because you’re airborne. That, and when you get hit, you get knocked to the other side of the screen, so you can wake up in a proper fashion.

Fuerte is either gonna do a running slide, run up to you and grab you, run up to you and do the infinite, run up and splash, run up and tortilla splash grab or run up to you and mix you up with jabs and shorts - possibly overhead.

If fuerte has ultra. DO NOT:

Throw a fireball close to him
Jump in at him
Press focus for any reason
No fireballs on wake up for chip damage either [/details]

Fei Long - 6/4

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From PlayGroundLegend: Fei long is another easy matchup. Zone him because he does not have fireballs, make sure to block the chicken wing high, do not try to grab after chicken wing as most players do the flame kick after chicken wing… block it and punish with b&b ultra. crouching FP and MP are your best friends. They stuff his rekka combo. standing round house isn’t godlke in this match up (OH NO lol). tiger knee his ass for free. Fei long gets his level 2 focus extremely fast, and he has more range than your focus attack. use your own focus attack sparingly. DO not mash TU during the rekka combo as some players are smart enough to stop the rekka, block your TU, and land an ultra or some other combo. Know your frame data! Sagat’s crouching LP comes out in 3 frames, crouching lk comes out in 4 frames. Start your footsies with crouching lp, then cancel into low tiger shot. This will push him away from you (what you want). You can follow up with standing round house, then tiger knee to push him back even further, then jump back and start fireballing him again. I try not to footsie fei long much because of his frame data. Fei has no reliable way to land an ultra, so when you see he has revenge meter, do not be concerned with it. His only viable way to land it is through focus attack or a combo in the corner (and he’s lucky if he gets to land every hit of the ultra at that!).[/details]

Gen - 6/4 [need data]

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Gouken - 6/4

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From Thegame4ever:
Gouken is not to be messed with. His hadoukens can keep pace with your Hard Punch tiger shots, he has great speed and recovery. His downfall in that case however, is that he can only throw one hadouken at you at a time and not EX, so take advantage of that to EX him for damage or chip. Imo I’ve won the match when I have a lead and I’m throwing hadoukens full screen. Most likely they’ll EX demon flip, watch out for it and TU, if trade hit F+RH ultra etc. Be careful when crossing him up since Gouken’s like to parry. Try to cross over with an attack that won’t hit cross (like Sagat’s j.mk) and when Gouken parries and whiffs go for a short short combo or TU that whiff. Watch out for that throw Gouken players always go for, you do not want to eat that damage. And if he does Shoryuken punch or shoryuken EX punch and it hits close, you can punish with TU each time. Most Goukens use this to go through your tigershots, so if he’s kind of close pay attention and throw them sparsely. Also if you performed a shoruyken close (say in a focus combo) and dash cancel forward+rh it will whiff, so simply dash cancel ultra.

From EmblemLord:He can’t keep up with High shots at all. Sagat throws them faster AND recovers faster. TK absolutely wrecks his Demon flip as well. On knockdown you can dominate if you play smart. Meaty TK will wreck counter and empty cross-ups really mess with his game. Also F+hk has a different timing vs every character. Gouken is one of the harder characters to hit with it, but it can be done.

Guile - 7/3

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From PlayGroundLegend: Tiger shots all day. Way quicker than guile’s sonic boom.

Guile has to charge to fire, sagat doesn’t GG SCRUB hehe.

Anyway. If you’re losing it’s probably because he’s jumping over your fireballs. which means you need to work on your BASICS.

There is a safe distance to throw a TS, and an unsafe distance where an opponent can jump in for free. Throw tiger shots from a safe distance. Also, standing tiger shots recover faster than crouching tiger shots, throw high shots when you’re in a fireball war - with any character. So if he’s tossing sonic booms - use fierce punch tiger shots, your next tiger shot should be a round house (hard kick) tiger shot aka low tiger shot. This is because guile’s will charge while holding down, and in order for guile to sonic boom he will need time to charge, if you throw a high tiger shot at this point it won’t hit him because he’s ducking and charging.
Guile’s crouching fierce (anti air where he punches up while crouching) is one of the best moves in the game, it stuffs everything. Do not jump in at him. Also, he can air grab you. stay on the ground.
Guile’s ultra blows kak - do not fear it. ever. for any reason. it’s awful.
Guile will throw slow booms, walk behind them, expect you to focus attack his boom - and then do that backhand swing punch. i think it’s F. Fierce but im not sure - doesn’t matter, it’s the punch where he pivots his foot and swings his torso - arm at you - long range punch. Do not focus his slow booms, it’s like the chun-li matchup. They want you to do that.
keep your eye on his super meter. EX booms are decent. Don’t get caught in a fireball fight predictably throwing shot after shot if he has 2 meters, you will get caught. When you see he has 2 meters “feint” fireballs. which means fake out like you’re gonna throw a tiger shot. You can do this by crouching or throwing out random normals like jab or crouching short etc. When sagat throws a low TS he crouches first. So if you just crouch and hit short or jab it can fake out your opponent, and you can just block the boom. Now, he can obviously ex boom off of 1 meter, but I say two because if he has an extra to burn, and one in the bank - for sure he’s gonna throw one out.
Guile, like most of the cast has no answer for tiger knee. if he’s at close distance, and there’s no sonic boom in front of him, just knee the shit out of him.
Guile’s flash kick blows - you can cross him up all day if you’re up close and tic throw him.
Guile’s crouching round house is the worsttttttttttt moveeeeeeeeeeee in the game. It’s the one where he spins around on the ground and hits you twice. If you see a guile do this move - and you DO NOT have ultra, just focus attack the first hit and release / dash back. OR If your reaction is slow, block the first kick, Focus attack the 2nd kick, release, dash back. IF YOU HAVE ULTRA, just ultra his stupid ass. either before / during the first kick or if you block the first kick, do it while his slow ass is going for the 2nd kick.

ADDED BY NEMSYS_SYNDROME:
Guile’s crouching HK is the worst move. When he pulls that first kick out, you have almost endless possibilities as to what you can do before he connects with the second kick. You can…

Tiger Upper out.
lk. Tiger Knee
Special
Ultra
Focus Attack (Not more than Level 2)
FA > Backdash to keep safe

System_1 · September 21, 2009, 4:46pm

Ken - 6/4 [need data]

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Spoiler

M. Bison (Dictator) - 6/4

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[details=Spoiler]
From Playgroundlegend:
This matchup is in sagat’s favor as Bison has few means to get in on a good zoning Sagat and tiger knees are devastating. I will go into detail as we progress.

The first thing we do is see if Bison has a move that comes out in three frames as Sagat has a crouching light punch that comes out in 3 frames. Yes Bison does, crouching light kick. http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/...)#Frame_Data

This makes fighting up close a bit more difficult. Fortunately for us, Bison does not have a projectile, although he has ways of getting in on a projectile happy Sagat player, I will cover what those tricks are so you can be on the lookout for them.

Basic Overview:

It is difficult to do a write up on bison as there are two schools of thought on the character. One is top play, the likes of Andre Lambert, fortunately he’s a good friend of mine and we travel to events together so I have had my fair share of games vs him so I can describe his style to you. Unfortunately, most Bisons do not play this aggressive style as it’s hard to apply pressure while maintaining charge, they play a different style. I will cover both.

Basically, you guessed it, you want to zone Bison from a distance. Preferring low tiger shots over high tiger shots. Bison has advanced tactics to get past tiger shots, but lets cover the basics first. Bison either has to focus, neutral jump, jump forward or crouch block (which pushes him to the other corner of the screen). 3-4 blocked TS’s push bison from in your face, to the other side of the stage. Standard Sagat anti air’s apply, TU RH F.RH etc the list goes on. Now that we have the basics covered, let’s review tricks that bison uses to get in that are character specific.

Devil Reverse:

This is the move where bison flies into the air, and then falls to the floor with his fist outwards while changing direction mid flight. Performing this move also gives Bison super meter. There are a few counters to this, my favorite being forward roundhouse. If you connect f.rh during devil reverse you have a 99% chance of connecting a 2nd one for free with the option of ultra.

If the Bison player is full screen, and you have 2 super bars, you can Tiger shot, FADC, dash forward, and double forward round house into ultra… everytime. Distance does not matter at this point, you have him. This is why: When you do a devil reverse, you fly towards Sagat and hover around the middle to back end of the stage. The thing is, the stage does not move with Bison. Meaning, once he leaves the ground for the devil reverse, the visible screen is locked, and won’t move, trapping him. TS FADC DASH UP moves you to at least 3/4 screen from the corner, now you can meet bison at the peak of his devil reverse AT MID SCREEN. It doesn’t matter if he devil reverses forwards or backwards. Forwards… f.rh might trade but you get an ultra or low ex ts / knee etc. he most likely will get scared and move back, only to eat the tip of you f.rh … into another f.rh… into ultra. OUCH.

If Bison devil reverses in anticipation of a fireball, and you do not throw one, you have a few options. If the devil reverse is about to land on your head, you can neutral jump medium punch, no trade, clean, perfect and awesome. You can also Jump back and hit fierce punch for a nasty hit as well. If you have ultra, but no meter, you can light punch tiger uppercut for a trade into f.rh ultra. Typically, you won’t see such aggressive use of the devil reverse. It’s mainly used to build up meter while moving in a little bit at a time by spamming the move. If that’s the case, spamming F.RH is safe or at worse it will trade in your favor, or you can hit him with a tiger shot on the way down. I prefer a high tiger shot to do that with the speed based on the distance, the further away, the faster the tiger shot.

You can focus attack the move, BUT if Bison does the ex version, it hits twice on the way down, breaking your super armor from the focus attack.

Head Stomp

This is the move where Bison flies into the air, and stomps on your head. After the stomp Bison can fly back to safety, or follow up with a fierce punch from the air. If you jump and do not hit him, you will get hit out of the air as well. If you are crouch blocking, you will get hit, If you are standing blocking, you will be fine and only take chip dmg.

This move can be counter in a variety of ways as well. Jump back fierce punch, is your best bet. Beats it clean, I love it, I wouldn’t use anything else. Even neutral jump fierce works well, but I just prefer the jump back version, this lets me reset the match. If I want to move back up to him, I can kara tiger knee to close the gap, or if I want to stay away I already did that by jumping back. With neutral jump fierce punch you do not have that luxury. Remember, if you are in the corner you can still perform a jump back fierce punch move even though your character is not actually jumping back at all because he is at the corner of the stage.

If you time it properly, you can LP TU a head stomp for a trade into F.RH ultra.

If you decide to block the head stomp, things get tricky. This goes back to good bisons vs average bisons. An average bison will either retreat to safety after the blocked hit, or he will follow up with the fierce punch move. If he retreats to safety, no biggie. If he follows up with a hit you can tiger uppercut him on the way down (LP TU trades into F.RH Ultra whereas fierce punch tiger uppercut will beat it clean), or charge focus after the blocked head stomp and release on impact of the bison fist follow up.

What gets tricky is that a good Bison player will move back and forth in the air after the head stomp, making you guess which way he’s gonna land - in front of you or behind you. If you charge focus at this point, he will land behind you and there’s nothing you can do about it but get hit. If you try to TU him, he can move to the other side and your TU will come out the wrong way ---- although I’ve had times where the CPU auto corrects for me, it’s still risky. A knockdown is exactly what Bison wants. This is why I advocate a jumping punch anti air as it removes the guessing from the match. Yeah, lp tu trade into f.rh ultra is sweet, but if you don’t land it, you’re on the floor eating mix ups — no good.

Empty Devil Reverse:

This is when bison does the devil reverse, but does not hit a punch button to divert his flight path. He simply lands at your feet and a throw will follow. If you see this, tech the throw.

How To Tell Them Apart

Off the start the three look identical. Bison is crouching, then he goes up into the air. What’s important to note is the height that he travels.

A head stomp goes a long distance but at a fairly flat - arc / approach, whereas a devil reverse pushes him to the top of the screen basically, with a short trajectory, but a higher arc.

The empty devil reverse looks like he is about to land at your feet. Very long approach, good distance, but no arc whatsoever.

Other Methods Of Getting In

If you throw a high tiger shot, Bison can do a crouching round house which will slide him across the floor, and if close enough, trip you for a knock down. At the right distance, he hits you with the tip of his foot, it is safe on block, otherwise punish as you see fit. This is why I advocate low tiger shots over high tiger shots when zoning. Make him jump, then tiger uppercut him. Or make him block, and push him back further.

If Bison has a super bar he can EX scissor kick through fireballs and hit you for a knock down at around half screen or possibly close to 3/4 screen. So, if you see a Bison without meter, in the corner, whiffing devil reverses, know that he is building meter to do exactly this.

There is a way around this though. If you throw slow low tiger shots, at the right distance, you can interrupt a scissor kick. Just like how if Balrog does a turn punch, which is made to go through projectiles, you can stuff him with a slow low tiger shot.

Alternate slow / fast low tiger shots for zoning. If he devil reverses and uses it to retreat, and you are not in range for f.rh, do a high tiger shot where speed is determined by distance from Bison.

Crap, He’s In, Now What?

This is where your match up experience will make or break you. If Bison got in, you did something wrong. But it’s OK, not all is lost.

You need to play it safe, and not fall on the floor. If you do, Bison has a bag of tricks for you that I will cover later.

A Bison up close is exactly where he wants to be, he is dangerous. His standing RH kick is a great anti air, great zoning tool, and is safe of block, regardless of distance. Do not try to mash TU after a blocked RH as you will whiff and be punished.

I do not advise using focus attack in this match up at this distance. You can, but it’s risky. If you hold focus from up close, you forget that Bison has an INSANELY FAST dash. He can dash up and grab you - putting you on the floor - in an instant. Bison can also scissor kick you, any version will hit twice. Even if you absorb a standing RH it’s so fast (5 frames) that he can follow up with another, or dash back (insanely fast) wait for you to release, dash up and toss you / combo you. Also, psycho crusher has armor break properties.

Also, if you focus attack in his face, a good bison is holding a charge, he can head stomp you for free for massive damage - or if he’s feeling himself, he can raw ultra you ouch.

Tiger knee is your friend (There will be a section dedicated to this one move coming up later).

Bison at this point wants to get in close and mix you up, hoping for a knock down, and hoping to bait tiger uppercuts. Do not give him the match. No matter the health deficit, you do insane damage and Bison doesn’t have the most health. Landing on ultra on him is devastating.

Beware of his focus attack. Not only does it charge to level 2 and have good range but the startup consists of Bison leaning BACK - charging - the releasing for a forward hit. This means that at the right range what looked like a nice standing RH opportunity for 2 hits won’t work because Bison’s focus puts him out of range, but when he releases, he hits further than he was originally standing, one of the best focus attacks in the game.

Shit, I’m Stuck In The Corner And I’m Scared:

Bison has you exactly where he wants you. This part of the match requires patienceeeeeeeeee. I cannot stress that enough. Getting antsy and holding focus will lead to you on the floor. Mashing DP will lead to a free combo and you on the floor. Jumping neutral, back, or forward will result in a standing round house clean. You need to ride it out.

This is where you need to know a bit about Bison’s combo game. Here is a link to Bison’s combos from the Bison forum of SRK.

Remember we talked about 3 frame moves? Get ready for them. Bison will hit you with a slew of mixups that start with cr. lk. whether it’s cr. lk x3 into lk scissor or something else, it doesn’t matter really. It comes down to you NOT PRESSING BUTTONS, BLOCKING, BEING PATIENT, TAKING THE CHIP DAMAGE. I know it sucks, but you have to deal with it. If you so much as hit 1 cr. lp during a block string you’re done. You need to learn Bisons combos so you know when they end. Also, do not mash DP during his block strings, they are tight 1 frame links, but if he doesn’t mess up the button press will tell Sagat to stop blocking and that is what we want to avoid.

CROUCH BLOCK THE WHOLE TIME. Bison, like cammy, DOES NOT HAVE AN OVERHEAD. All you need to worry about are block strings and grabs. If you know Bison’s combo’s you can’t be grabbed as easily. Once you hear it end earlier than it should get ready, this where it gets REALLY tough.

Mind Games… I Think I Pooped My Pants:

Bison’s bread and butter is 3 cr.lk’s into light scissor. safe on block. This can be followed up with a cr.mk into scissor, or just another scissor, or he can end the combo early and grab you, or he can finish the combo, dash up and grab you, or he can finish the combo dash up YOU THINK he will grab you… and he starts it all over again. This comes down to patience, luck, and guessing right. My favorite way to get out of the corner is to have a super meter handy at all times. Do an EX Knee, if you hit him, he’s knocked to the other side of the stage. If it blocks, you’re safe and can potentially grab or start a block string of your own. If your frantically mash ex knee you will got rocked and lose your meter at the same time. I wish there was something I could write here to help you, but it comes down to experience and knowledge of the character, for this reason, I picked up Bison as an alt when the game came out, I needed to learn his tricks. I know this sounds like a cop out but seriously, if you have strong defense you will be OK. Block low, tech when needed, and get out of there.

The worst part about this stage is that even if you do get out, all those cr. lks have given Bison an ample amount of super meter to get in on you again once you create some space.

I Messed Up The Mind Games. I’ve Fallen And I Can’t Get Up:

You’re on the floor. Uh oh, spagettio’s. I’ll say it again, do not mash dp. Do not mash grab, do not mash cr. lp. Don’t mash anything. The odds of you guessing right are not in your favor.

Bison does have a cross up, with jumping medium kick. I have had great success with cross up TU in this match up. To perform one, do 2 half circle motions. Starting with the stick pointing in the direction Bison started in. Ending in the direction Bison is going to be. Then hit LP. You have a great chance of a lp TU coming out, which is your way out.

If Bison is grab happy, and you have meter, throw out a dp, maybe you can luck out and escape that way.

This is similar to the Gief matchup in that you cannot back dash or hold up back to jump away, you will get combo’d all over again and end up back on the floor.

You’ve Mentioned All Of The Problems, How About A Solution Asshole?

Once you understand Bison’s combo’s and frames a bit you can tell when there’s a gap, a place for you to throw out something safely. Throw out a cr. LP into low tiger shot, this will give you some space. Now, you can take the fight to him as this is ample room for a tiger knee. But little does Bison know… that he’s a TOTAL SUCKER FOR KNEE TRAPS HAHAHAHAHAH.

Giving Bison A Taste Of His Own Medicine

Well, seems like you’ve had enough of Bison’s cr.lk scissor frame traps. Give him a taste of his own medicine. What’s unique in this matchup is that A CLOSE STANDING LP ON A CROUCHING DICTATOR WILL HIT. And unlike Bison, Sagat has an overhead of his own too that you can mix in, making your mix up deadlier. There are a million different options for a knee frame trap but basically it works like this.

You want to hit Bison with the tip of the tiger knee, otherwise it is unsafe.
You want to start the frame trap with moves that space your properly. For example 3 cr. lk into cr. mp into medium tk.

But there’s a problem, bison has a 3 frame crouching light kick, Sagat’s crouching lk comes out in 4 frames can’t use it. Use crouching LP instead. Depending on the distance you can do cr.lp - standing lp - st. lk - light tiger knee and repeat all day. Sometimes you will be pushed back, and either the st. lp or cr.lp won’t connect right, judge this based on distance. but you can trap him. There is nothing he can do.

Bison Is In The Corner, Now What?

If he has EX meter… he won’t be in the corner for long. Contain him when he’s in the corner, but do not try to land a meaty cr.lk or overhead etc. He can EX Psycho crusher out of the corner, through focus attacks, and out to safety. Just contain him with knee traps. You could back up to safe TK range, wait for psycho crusher and punish it, or if he does it from an unsafe distance, punish him, or if he has no meter, feel free to rock his face off with knees, cross ups, frame traps, Canceled dp’s overheads, go to town on his ass.

How Does Bison Land Ultra and super?:
Focus attack crumple into ultra.
Anti air jumping medium punch (hits you twice you fall in a juggled state) into ultra. DON’T JUMP WHEN HE HAS ULTRA.
As a regular anti air. DON’T JUMP WHEN HE HAS ULTRA.

Super:

After any combo that ends in scissor kick, you can get super’d.

Honestly, don’t worry about super in this match up. He will be burning Ex’s for cancels for his combos, and as a means of escaping from you and getting past the tiger shot obstacle course.

That’s it! Not a whole lot of options there for an ultra and definitely not as many options as Sagat.

Last Minute Tips And Tricks To Be Aware Of:

Psycho crusher is unsafe as shit… except an EX psycho crusher that hits you with just the tip of his hands. He can go into a grab, or a cr.lk block string / combo.

All of the scissor kicks are safe if done from the right distance. The hardest being EX scissor. That is always punishable EXCEPT if it hits… you guessed it… with the tip of Bison’s foot.

I use Kara EX Knee like craaaaazy in this match. If I’m not on the floor, and I am about to be crossed up. Instead of dealing with the mixup you can safely EX Kara knee to the other side of the stage. Meter well spent imho.

Why zoning is not to be underrated: Every tiger shot chips. You will be chipping Bison a lot in this match. Every chip not only does damage, but gives you EX meter, that you can use to get out of the corner or land an ultra. Every blocked tiger shot also pushes Bison back… so he can eat more tiger shots. You also force him to jump if he gets antsy, that’s a free 150 dmg fierce DP. Let’s say you chip Bison 10x and land 4 ts’s on him. That’s a substantial health lead that you have, not to mention Sagat’s base health is higher than Bison’s to begin with. Now you have 2 ex meters or so (guessing here but you get the idea) and now when and if Bison does get in, he has to be VERY cautious since you can DP safely. This shifts the odds in your favor as he will more cognizant of the fact that you can destroy him with ultra, or if you don’t have ultra, TU xx Tiger knee… which sends him back to the other side of the stage, with less health, and back to the obstacle course.

Useful tip, but godlike for my xbox live friends:
At the start of the match you have a safe opener every time. Typically, I just walk backwards to start a match, I don’t always do this vs. Bison as I have a safe opener. I Neutral Jump. Put one finger on fierce punch, and one finger on medium kick. When the match starts, neutral jump. If Bison does a head stomp off the start, press fierce punch. You hit him clean and you get space. Proceed to zone. If he does a scissor off the start, hit medium kick on the way down and follow up into the combo of your choosing. Dash back, hit him with a tiger shot on wake up and proceed to zone. Or, bison might just back up… in that case you got what you wanted anyway if you didn’t neutral jump and just decided to walk back at the start instead.

Your ultra absolutely devastates Bison. Remember, Cr.lk comes out in 4 frames. There’s 60 frames in a second. In 1/15th of a second you can land a cr.lk into bread and butter ultra which can change the match completely. Be patient and never give up.[/details]

Rose - 6/4

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Spoiler

From Tiberious:
If she’s a slide-happy player (alot online are, since they think it’s free blockstring into cr.MP xx Soul Spiral), turn punishing badly-placed slides into a religion. cr.MP xx LTS will either hit if they tried to follow up, or make them block low and push them back. Tiger Knee will not hit fully on the slide, so this isn’t an option.

When she has Ultra, stay grounded, and don’t throw any naked fireballs without having the ability to FADC. A competent Rose will Shamwow you every time.

If they jump in with FP (the circular scarf motion in the air), TU that for the trade. It will hurt her alot more than it will you, especially if it gave you Ultra or have it stored. Rose’s funky hitboxes strike again, and in the corner, you will not be able to get the full Ultra juggle, so factor that into consideration.

Most Roses I run into won’t try to reflect or absorb fireballs, and for good reason. Your Tiger Shot game > her Soul Reflect game. She not only has to time hers to your strength, but also your height.

From Emblemlord:She loses badly from far away and if you have your spacing down you can double f+hk her jump ins on pure reaction, making her take a huge chunk of damage and stun. She has better footsies though thanks to st. forward, f+ hk, cr. strong and st. hk. Slide is used to get in but dies to FA. Don’t whore FA’s though because she can fish for them and then Spiral you. Well spaced slides will give her frame advantage on block or let her combo if they hit. So don’t do anything dumb if you block a well spaced slide like try to jump because more then likely you will just eat cr. strong into spiral.

Spirals themselves are pretty unsafe, but hard to punish when well spaced. Usually if they are mis spaced just go for cr. jab into fierce TU or low shot if you just wanna be safe. If they did it really really close then you can do cr. strong > fierce TU FADC > w/e.

Rose has good grab range and that’s where she gets about 90% of her damage so make sure you have mastered your option select techs.

BTW Rose is damn near free on her wake-up.

Rufus - 6/4

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Spoiler

From Death By Nines:
Sagat has a very easy time against Rufus, provided he shuts him out and is always aware of Rufus’ dive-kick range. As a Sagat player, you want Rufus full screen away from you the whole match, where most of his shenanigans are completely ineffective. When zoned, a good Rufus will try the following options to get in your grill:

Evade your TS with well spaced dive-kicks. This is pretty much all he can do at full screen range to close the distance. Mix up HP and HK TS with LP and LK TS to keep him on his toes. Also, you can kara TK (with f.HK of course) when he does neutral jump dive-kicks.

-At mid-screen range, he’ll most likely try to A) use cr.HP to interrupt your TS’ sequence, B) use HP Galactic Tornado to absorb your fireball and hopefully get some damage in, or get close enough to start his dive-kick mix-ups, C) jump over your fireball and land with j.HP.

-In response to A) just block. His recovery on cr.HP (dunno frames) is too much for you to worry about him trying an immediate follow-up. As for B) If you notice he absorbs your fireball with Galactic Tornado, block immediately. After you block successfully, jump back HP. It stops the dive-kick mix-up attempt, evades random ultra, and puts you in a relatively safe position. Do NOT try to TU him after a blocked Galactic Tornado… his recovery is almost instant and he can just block it and have you at his mercy when you land. In response to C) TU or st.HK. Knock him out of the air clean. TU is much safer, because even if it trades it’s in your favour. Trading with st.HK is more beneficial for him.

At mid-screen, well timed TKs can effectively crush his ground game as well. It stuffs his Galactic Tornado, as well as his d/f.MK.

If Rufus manages to get a knockdown on you, things can get a bit trickier… ESPECIALLY if it’s in the corner. He has a wealth of options here and if he’s got EX meter and Ultra, he’s even more dangerous. It’s all about keeping a level head when he’s trying to rush your shit down. What you wanna do is block. Block block block block, and block some more till you find an opening to exploit. Escaping Rufus’ rushdown is a case of playing a reactionary game, the second you see a gap in the attack, you have to punish.

[media=youtube]Bvh7ReU9-pQ[/media] vid is a very good example of how to shut Rufus down. Mago does an exemplary job here.

From PlayGroundLegend:

did this at a tournament. If you are raping some fool with ts’s all day, they will get impatient and guess with galactic tornado to close the gap.

no ultra: tiger uppercut him - or knee him to get him on the other side of the stage whereas TU is raw damage.
you have ultra… raw ultra his stupid ass.

From Creazn:
His messiah kick can easily be punished with st.HK.

Ryu - 5/5 [need data]

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Spoiler

System_1 · September 21, 2009, 4:49pm

Sagat - 5/5

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[details=Spoiler]
From djKun:
Sagat vs. Sagat

There’s 2 kinds of fight you’ll end up having in here. The full screen range fights and the medium-close screen fights as compared to the other fireball character mirror matches, Sagat mirror match fire ball wars is litterally its own dynamic game.


Full Screen range fights:

Ideally you want to gain the life lead (even if its chip damage) and match the other Sagat's fireball with yours to negate the fireballs thus leaving no harm to both sides (while you still have the life lead of course). You'll need the stradegy, mindtricks (to some extent) plus ultimately, the patients.

Consider 2 things: the speed of the fireball and whether its a HTS or a LTS.

Most people usually do Fierce/Roundhouse fireballs as its fast and stuff. However once you start changing the speed of the fireballs (that isn't fierce/roundhouse) it actually changes the flow and pace of the game.

== With a fixed speed (using 1 set of fireballs with roundhouse and fierce only) ==

-Point 1: HTS usually beats out LTS. HTS has faster recovery (making it the best fireball actually) then LTs thus you can recover fast enough to block and take a small chip damage.

-Point 2: LTS doesn't have as fast of a recovery like HTS (same recovery speed of a hadouken actually) and your hitbox increases during your recovery frame so you will eat a fireball.

Point 1 and 2 is true ONLY if both Sagats are throwing fireballs at the same time.

Depending on the frame difference, when you throw it etc, both Sagats may throw a fireball at the same time and they will both eat the fireballs regardless of which fireball you pick.

However

LTS can beat HTS if it is done correctly. not a hard thing to do really, you just need good timing. You can LTS against a HTS and completely avoid eating a HTS but you may or may not hit the other person.

To do this, you must wait for the HTS to come to you for a little bit then do a LTS when it is somewhat close to you. The reason being is when you do an LTS, the hitbox during the startup and active frames of the LTS is actually small enough to completely avoid the HTS while shooting out a LTS. Its only when you do a LTS too early you'll eat a fireball due to the hitbox during the recovery frames (see point 2).

== With a mixed speed (any speed) ==

This is where things gets interesting.

You can throw Sagat off just for a bit by changing up speeds. however usually in fullscreen fights, changing speed is usually used to keep Sagat in check (do a slow HTS and Sagat may just crouch all the time.

A jab HTS can't be avoid by a timed LTS so that basically kills that method (I'll test this further but I'm pretty sure you can't). A strong HTS may throw off Sagat in terms of judgement of speed and distance thus making Sagat misjudge and does a LTS too early.

The closer you are to Sagat makes slower TS slightly stronger. If your actually up close a slow HTS can keep Sagat in check.

There isn't much to talk here but changing speeds can change the fireball war.

Medium-close screen fights:

Your not going to be doing fireball wars here. This part is almost rock paper scissors but with Jumpins, Uppercuts, tiger knees, fireballs and throws.

Actually when your up close, one Sagat is the defensive one throwing fireballs, uppercuts, Hk and tech throws while the other is the aggressive one throwing physic DP, TK pressure, jump ins and throws.

=Aggressive Sagat=

Let’s discuss some viable options.

Fireball:

This is your pressure and zoning tool. You can apply pressure by doing LTs and occasional HTS (don’t get caught by a uppercut though when doing HTS) This will keep Sagat in check by negating your fireball with his or take chip damage. Beware not to do this up close as they can uppercut you clean if they see another predictable TS coming in. Becareful not to get jumped when you do a LTS at the same time cause its a free combo for them and that’ll hurt. Plus its back to zoning you back.

Tiger uppercut:

Usually when they try to jump in on you or against a close predictable TS. You can also use it to interrupt a blockstring.

Tiger knee:

TK is actually a very useful tool against jump ins, pressure tool (s.lk~short tk) and close in distance very quickly. Usually you want to sort of spam TK up close to apply ALOT of pressure so they don’t do any mistake and since TK is a really strong special, it can actually beat out some things. Don’t spam so much though or you’ll get tiger knee’d to the face as a counter (this happened once) or uppercut to the face.

Overhead:

Use this out of the blue up close when they’re going to block. Not great but useful.

Jumping in:

Be EXTRA careful with this. You want to jump in at them the moment they TS you back so you can grab a free combo. Also if they don’t TS, they can react with an uppercut (it hurts) or at a good distance, a s.hk or a f.hk will beat your ass out.

Blockstrings:

For obvious reasons although…I don’t know how to explain this in my head.

Throws:

Becareful not to walk up and get uppercutted or something while doing a throw attempt. Sagat IS slow so they might see this coming. Walk up throw very randomly. The best tick throw you can do is j.lk into throw but its so common they will see it coming. Just be careful.

Pokes:

they can be beaten out with TS at the right time and if you get hit, its hard to do another poke after when they can just do another TS to beat you out. This is better off more as a pressure tool.

Focus attack:

good pressure tool and as a counter-parry attack. Sort of. Like absorb a TS and let the attack hit them. Dash in for more offense or dash back for safety. This is so universal so use it as you wish.

Remember, your goal is to get in close and do some damage.

–

=Defensive Sagat=

You have the natural advantage since your more built as a defensive fortress shooting cannons (litterally) and keeping them out of your area.

Fireball:

Used mostly to deal some chip damage and to negate fireballs to prevent any sort of damage. Careful not to get caught doing a TS while they jumped.

Tiger Uppercut:

your anti-air. Deals good damage of course and its more against predictable fireballs, jump ins and blockstrings (interrupt).

S.hk/F.hk:

Depending on distance, THIS is your answer if you can’t TU in time or if they are far. Great range, priority, damage… I mean this kick is fucking awesome. Good to keep people out and at close range, can beat out focus attacks and some other stuff.

Tiger knee:

I once saw someone being defensive and used this on me. It just took me by surprised and I tried to react to it with whatever but I got caught. Good move to move out just a bit while being offensive.

Overhead:

Ideally you don’t want them to be standing next to you. But if they are, overhead can do the trick otherwise block string to move them out.

Block string:

To basically apply pressure so they cant do shit upclose and move them further away.

c.hp:

You know, this is actually a good move. Good range, nice damage, pushes back considerably, not bad at all. Don’t abuse it though.

Throw:

only when they are up close to kick them back out.

Ideally, you want to keep them away with the life lead.


=Generic info=

-Have alot of patience. Get the life lead and try to win by time out.

-You don't have any good crossovers or any defense against crossovers really.

-Your either fighting a fireball war or a close game. There's not...in between.

-Usually its good to have a wall behind your back. You just feel safer.[/details]

**Sakura - 7/3**

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[details=Spoiler]
From Creazn:
Sakura can be a pretty damn annoying and difficult matchup for Sagat if you don't know how to encounter her. I've seen many good sagats being stuffed by a good Sakura.

Far range:
- Shoot tigershots at far range all day long when she doesn't have her EX
- When she's got meter don't shoot predictable! Jab between the shots and make her guess, because she has a really good move to stuff our TS form far, her EX jump-n into 3 punches (don't know its name)

Mid range:
- Don't shoot predictable your TS. A EX whirlwind will punish into a combo or Ultra. She can also EX DP you.
- Don't jump in too much. She has a good AA for that, her cr. HP.
- If she jumps in TU/HK/fw HK her

Close range
- Don't make mistakes close range especially When your recovering she just cr.HP, EX whirlwind and further combo you.
- Zone your TK distance well. Use your jabs and cr.lk.
- A combo of Sakura: crHP - EX whirlwindkick - st. jab (you will 'juggle' a bit) - crosses up by dashing - (jab) - crHp and EX whirlwind kick you again into Ultra or jumping punches. When she tries to do that block it the opposite direction or TU her.

Video:
Sabre vs Danimitsu
[media=youtube]yAT7h...layer_embedded[/media]

Match 1
Round 1: Sagat
Round 2: Sakura
Round 3: Sakura

Match 2
(starts at 3:51)
Round 1: Sakura
Round 2: Sagat
Round 3: Sakura

Match 3
(starts at 6:38)
Round 1: Sakura
Round 2: Sakura
Match 4
(starts at 8:35)
Round 1: Sagat
Round 2: Sagat [/details]

**Seth - 5/5**

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[details=Spoiler]
From PlayGroundLegend: Seth is an even match up. You have the health advantage, and remember THE GAME TIMER IS YOUR FRIEND :) ... Seth's advantage is his amazing speed, teleport and the ability to negate your TS with his ultra. If you are playing against a long limb happy seth player (standing fierce punch, jumping fierce punch) TIGER UPPER THAT ISH! TU does 150 dmg, seth has like what? 750-850 health... max? Jumping MP also beats seth's jumping fierce. If you get seth into a corner, don't crowd him. Treat him like akuma. When a seth gets in the corner they want to wall jump out of there, so stand at a distance that prevents him from jumping out. Contain him.

When seth gets his ultra, he will go to the opposite end of the screen and throw a crap load of sonic booms. If you jump over his sonic boom, you eat the ultra (and still get hit by the sonic boom during the ultra animation because it pushes you back). your best bet is a neutral jump, and purposely land ontop of the sonic boom. If the seth player is antsy, they will toss out the ultra, and since you got hit by the boom, you will not get sucked into the ultra - and seth will lose meter. Also, do not throw tiger shots while he has ultra, basic but it needed to be said.

FEAR HIS ULTRA. most people brush it off because it's weak. The best part of the ultra, is not the ultra itself, but how it makes you eat any sonic booms he threw before the ultra animation, and on wake up seth can throw a sonic boom, teleport behind you, cr. lk cr.lp cr. mp mk lightning legs kick you, and if that's in a corner, thats followed up with 3 head stomp and a dive kick.... FREEEEEEEEEEEE. That's an insane amount of stun, once you're stunned he can lvl 3 focus, dash up, cr. fierce punch HK machine gun kick, 3 head stomps and dive kick and start the wake up game.

HE GETS LEVEL 2 FOCUS INSANELY FAST. Do not get into stupid focus battles with him. The only time you should focus against seth is when he jumps up for a fierce punch or crouching fierce punch. Dash up to him. If you focus a jumping fierce punch while hes high in the air, treat him like dhalsim. dash up - upper cut him on the way down, FADC forward round house ultra.

If seth loves to throw sonic booms, wall jump into a round house dive kick. He will do 1 of two things (if he's skilled). 1. hit you with the wall dive and combo your ass (do not try to option select to prevent a grab, this is covered later) . 2. go for a free command grab spd because you are blocking (this is why you don't option select). If you see the wall dive just jump back with hard kick or if you can time it, tiger upper him. get some space away from him after that, or if he's timid he will jump back and go back to long arms and sonic booms.

DON'T JUMP IN ON SETH. YOU'RE SAGAT. NEVER JUMP. You're slow and half blind. Seth can catch you with a free LP upper into 3 head stomps and a dive kick at the end. This stun damage adds up. if you need to close the gap for whatever reason, tiger knee or kara tiger knee. Also, seth's in air jumping MP hits you twice, you fall in a juggled state, he lands first, and can follow up with 3 head stomps and a dive kick.


So, to sum it up. Play the game timer, turtle, tiger shot the crap out of him when he doesn't have ultra, focus his limbs or TU if he's being predictable. neutral jump his sonic booms, don't try to cross him up in the corner, just keep him contained. if he wall dives, jump back and create space or TU if you can on reaction.
[/details]

**Vega (Claw) - 7/3**

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[details=Spoiler]
From m2dave:
Sagat Vs. Vega (Claw). Here are a few tips and tricks.

- if you throw a HK Tiger Shot followed by a HP Tiger Shot, the latter stuffs any wall dive attempts with the exceptions of the EX Sky High Claw (charge d,u+PP) and Claw's ultra combo. Generally speaking, if the Claw player is foolish enough to wall dive a lot, you may use j.HPs, j.MPs, and j.MKs to take him down. Personally, I like j.HPs since they deal a lot of damage. You may also use focus attacks, which will absorb Claw's wall dive attack no matter which side it hit from. Be aware of Izuna Drops, however.

- Claw's EX Sky High Claw and his ultra combo have projectile invulnerabilities. You should only be concerned about the latter since the former does pathetic damage. So, if Claw has built up his ultra gauge, do not throw any Tiger Shots unless you want to be punished. Both of these moves can usually be punished by an EX Tiger Shot or a kara Tiger Uppercut performed out of f+HK when you block them. If Claw lands really close to you, Sagat's ultra combo can connect as well.

- Know that Claw's EX Sky High Claw can be sometimes tricky to block since it is kind of fast and it can either hit from the left or right side depending which wall Claw jumped from. Sagat's j.MP can stuff it, though, if you anticipate the move.

- Claw's slide (d+HK) evades high Tiger Shots but not low Tiger Shots. The move is only safe when performed at max range (kind of like Blanka's d/f+HP). It is cr.MK -&gt; Tiger Uppercut / Tiger Shot punishable otherwise. Note that the move CROSSES UP Sagat when he is grounded. After the cross up, watch out for a throw, cr.MK into a combo (i.e., cr.MK -&gt; EX Flying Barcelona Attack -&gt; Izuna Drop) or an instant overhead performed via jump back HP. The instant overhead may be punishable by a kara Tiger Uppercut done out of f+HK I think if you ever happen to anticipate it and block it.

- Claw has a decent footsie game, so expect to see a lot of st.MKs, st.HKs, and cr.MPs. His walking speed and dashes are fast. Be prepared to tech throws, especially when d/f+HK gets blocked. When you are grounded, be aware of walk up throws, sweep / d/f+HK cross ups into follow ups, and instant overheads. Claw's offensive game is by no means strong, but be familiar with the options he has.

- The Backflips (PPP and KKK) kind of function like "mini-teleports". They have no start up frames and Claw is completely invulnerable while he backflips. However, as soon as his feet touch the ground, he is vulnerable and there is a slight recovery to them. KKK Backflips cover less ground than PPP dackflips do. If Claw players abuse any Backflips, you can freely jump at them without any consequences. You can also use f+HKs, MK Tiger Knees, or kara Tiger Knees performed out of f+HKs to close the gap. If they keep pushing themselves into the corner using Backflips, let them. That is where you want Claw to be.

- When Claw is grounded, meaty cr.LKs beat all of his options I believe except Backflips and backdashes.

Vega's reversal game is miserable. The basic strategy is to throw constant Tiger Shots at him until he gets to a point where Sagat's Tiger Knee strings may be initiated, again taking advantage of Claw's poor reversal game. You can absolutely murder him if your Tiger Knee strings are on point. The easy st.LP -&gt; LK Tiger Knee trap works on him as well. Corner him and apply constant pressure. Do not let him escape. When his mask falls off, I think his stamina becomes Seth-like.

There is a reason that this match up is considered by many to be 7:3 favoring Sagat. Sagat's options are just so much better than Claw's. The only advantage Claw has is in the speed department, but that will certainly not going to stop Sagat from bashing the pretty boy's face.

Video:

Mago (Sagat) Vs. Genius (Claw)
[media=youtube]GsN1cC7XrZw[/media][/details]

**Zangief -  7/3**

vs
[details=Spoiler]
**Pro tip: **Zone the cyclone, keep him away with s.HK and proper tiger shot zoning. 

From MYK jamgi:With Gief's short jump and regular jump options crossup are really ambiguous on Sagat, especially since he's really tall too. After you block the jump in correctly you're still going to have to guess. If you tried to jump right away c.lk will stuff you, since he has soo much block stun after jump-in d+hp. So it's another mixup, jump and get c.lk xx lariat or stay down and get 360ed, though I think cuz he's at soo much block stun after jump-in d+hp, he has to tick into 360, otherwise he'll just whiff his throw right through you (don't quote me on this last one, I'm not 100% sure on it.)

And there's always pray-to-God uppercut, though it could be extremely risky. Save your meter, block correctly, and if he crossed you up after blocking uppercut~fadc backdash outta there. He might(? not 100% sure) be able to catch you with green hand, though keep in mind you still get a free throw or c.lp, TU even if green hand hits. Ex green hand, of course not you'll be knocked down again X(.

-------
From PlayGroundLegend:
Gief's want to be closing the gap on you, in range for a ex green hand. Basically means if I twitch or hit anything I get green handed, on the floor, wake up trouble. I get stuck where they are in that safe zone so I can't throw out normals, knee's, TS's etc. So, naturally I want to back up. Gief just keeps coming. After I got more experience with tournament level giefs I learned to just chill out and hit nothing if need be. Then I was getting caught with standing hard kick into SPD.

I decided to play as gief for a week, learn him inside and out. 99% of his combos (you'll see them on wake up) start low. I used to try to dash back or jump out on wake up but you can't. You just need to ride it out - most likely leading to an spd, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I learned that you can cross up TU his jumping down fierce splash with 2 half circle motions into HP TU. That helped a lot. I learned not to hard kick his jumping fierce punch as it stuffs it. I used to try to TU his anti airs - it's not worth it, TK became my best bet as it knocks him to the other side of the screen and he can't safe jump like that. When I get in the corner I just used to try to jump back or panic etc and get hit by lariat. Now I just chill, and if he doesn't have EX meter I will EX knee into a grab as EX green hand beats EX knee or basically anything you try to do. Once I'm out of the corner I do a kara TK to get further from the corner and pressure him on wake up. Most gief's aren't used to getting thrown. Try it sometime. They all expect an up close DP or some shit. It's risky, but it's a good mind fuck in that the rest of the match they know you aren't afraid of him.

I found a good video of Ojisan boy playing a gief player. He advocates staying up close and baiting laggy gief moves that he can punish. I agree with him to an extent. If you are far away - you have the advantage, but you lose the element of surprise in that your options are TK TS s.RH f.RH kara knee kara ts etc. By being up close you make gief have to gues more. At a distance if you throw a high TS, gief does a cr. mk that moves him forward a bit. green hands help him move quickly as well, low ts he will jump over and fierce punch. etc. As much as you have the range advantage you lose the mind game war. I don't have mago execution or j wong reflexes or diago psychic abilities, I rely on being a smarter human being than the other guy, even if he's better than me, to win.

Video:

[media=youtube]qa1Xe...layer_embedded[/media][/details]

System_1 · September 21, 2009, 4:51pm

Reserved 4 playgroundlegend’s future novels

DevilJin_01 · September 21, 2009, 6:37pm

Just to add in something since I’m going to secondary Sagat…(take care of C.Viper’s dumb matches) I noticed something not so super important but funny about the Honda description. Playground mentioned that Honda’s neutral/vertical j.HP moves him forward. That’s true but it can also move him backward or just keep him stationary.

That’s because Honda has always had a “controllable vertical/neutral j.HP”. He’s had it since all the way back during the old days. It’s basically his trademark ability for maneuvering around fireballs. You can hold forward or back during the j.HP to control where Honda lands as he is doing the neutral air fierce. This makes it very good for spacing him around the fireballs as he closes in. Just wanted to make sure nubs and scrubs don’t go “WTFOMG?!!!” when he starts moving in all kinds of directions during his neutral j.HP.

System_1 · September 21, 2009, 9:14pm

Good to know, added :tup:

djKun · September 22, 2009, 1:52am

What’s the next novel?

System_1 · September 22, 2009, 1:56am

lol, not sure…perhaps one of the characters needing data?

I’m jk, I appreciate the hell out of his write ups… very thorough and provides help for all the possible situations you may find yourself in. PGL=tourney

Anotak · September 22, 2009, 4:56am

yeah good shit playground

i’m eventually going to get around to that gief writeup I promise guys just been swamped with engineering homeworks

thegame4ever · September 22, 2009, 8:51am

Something to add to Boxer. When you’re zoning and he TAPs at a distance, you can TK medium kick. If he’s still in recovery he’ll get hit, if not and blocks you’re safe. Up close be careful and throw high shots, and change the speeds. If he manages to TAP hopefully through your high shot TU immediately, dash cancel shenanigans.

jewelman · September 22, 2009, 3:05pm

honda’s ex buttslam beats all versions of tiger knee and uppercut

m2dave · September 23, 2009, 5:16pm

I think we can add a few more basic things for the Boxer match up.

Dash Straight (Charge b, f+P). The LP and EX versions are safe on block, especially when only the tip of Boxer’s glove is blocked. The Dash Straight is the most used special move for strings because the LP version is very safe when performed from the right distance.
Dash Upper (Charge b, f+K). The LP Dash Upper along with the EX version are safe on block. The rest are punishable by an HP Tiger Uppercut. This special move whiffs entirely if you are crouching.
Dash Low Smash (Charge b, df+K, armor break). When in range, all version (beside the EX version) are punishable by an HP Tiger Uppercut.
Dash Low Straight (Charge b, df+P). All variations of this move with the exception of the EX version are punishable by Sagat’s st.HK if Boxer is close enough. This attack must be blocked low.
Dash Swing Blow (Charge b, df+P (hold P), armor break). All versions of this move are punishable on block by an HP Tiger Uppercut. This attack must be blocked high since it is an overhead. Train yourself to block this move on reaction. When the EX Dash Swing Blow successfully hits Sagat, Boxer may not follow up with cr.LPs for a combo; however, cr.LKs and cr.HKs still connect.
Turn Around Punch (TAP) (Hold PPP/KKK then release, armor break). This attack has invincibility frames on start up, which may be used to go through fireballs. The first release is safe at -2 on block against Sagat. All other releases can be punished by an HP Tiger Uppercut.
Be careful when punishing. Boxer can FADC all of his special moves with the exception of the Buffallo Headbutt (Charge d, u+P).
While blocking his ultra combo, you can interrupt him before the last hit ever comes out using your own ultra combo or even a regular Tiger Uppercut. This does not seem to work with his super combo, though.
Boxer can be thrown out of any EX rush attacks. Sagat’s st.HK can stuff them as well when timed properly. Beware of EX Dash Straight (Charge b, f+PP). If only the tip of this attack is to hit, you will get punished if you try to throw or stuff him with a st.HK.
Respect his ultra combo. He can buffer it from a forward dash and punish you if you throw Tiger Shots carelessly. Fake Tiger Shots using QCB+P to make it harder on him.
Boxer’s offense is annoying to say the least. Expect a barrage of cr.LPs into tick throws. His footsie game is also one of the best in the game because his movement is very fast. Boxer players like to dance around at mid range and throw out cr.HKs, st.HKs, st.HPs, and st.LPs. He has no cross up attacks from the air. However, Boxer players still like to “fake” cross ups and throw you or use cr.LPs upon landing on the other side. One thing to note is that a Buffallo Headbutt may be used to create cross up scenarios in corners. Also, you NEVER want to be cornered by Boxer. It can be really hard to get out.
Too bad that Boxer’s defense is not as scary as his offense! He is kind of “free on wake up”, as EmblemLord would say. If you time a meaty cr.LK correctly (which should recover in 6 frames), there is nothing Boxer can do to hurt you. All of his Headbutt special moves are 11 frames. They are too slow to hit Sagat. EX Headbutt is also 11 frames. Too slow. Boxer’s super combo is 10 frames. Too slow. Boxer’s ultra combo is 11 frames. Again, too slow. Good Boxer players will most likely start backdashing then. Use that opportunity to punish them with a jump in attack or a kara LK Tiger Knee (f+HK version). Kara HP Tiger Uppecut (f+HK version) probably works as well.
Because Sagat is no match for Boxer’s superior up close and footsie game, you must zone him. Stick to throwing a lot of LP and LK Tiger Shots at Boxer. The reason for this is to hopefully recover in time when he does an EX rush attack or a TAP. Do not be afraid to use Tiger Uppercuts on reaction. If Boxer absorbs a LP Tiger Shot and you recover in time, use an HP Tiger Uppercut to punish him. Same thing with the TAPs, which are particularly slow at 30 frames. Bait him by throwing LP or LK Tiger Shots. Then when he goes for the TAP, react to it and counter him with an HP Tiger Uppercut.
Boxer is one of those characters whom f+HK will miss a lot on after Tiger Uppercut -> FADC. This even happens a lot to Mago. If in doubt, just do the ultra combo immediately after FADC’ing.
Focus attacks are good against Boxer because he likes to stick out heavy attacks at mid range, such as cr.HKs and st.HKs.
This is a match up in which kara LK and MK Tiger Knees (f+HK versions) are useful because Boxer players like to hold d/b at certain distances waiting for you to make the first move, so they can react to it and punish you. Kara Tiger Knees will give them something to think about, and they also allow you to create some space. Be careful with too many Tiger Knee strings, though. While a regular Buffallo Headbutt may trade with the Tiger Knee in strings, an EX version will surely out-prioritize you leading to a possible ultra combo leading to the corner, which is not where you want to be against this character.
Speaking of corners, do not panic. Do not spam Tiger Uppercuts. Stay solid on defense. Stay patient. Understand that getting out will not be easy. It will take some time before a chance arises to escape.
Recent Videos:

Mago (Sagat) vs. R-Chan (Boxer)

[media=youtube]3rFrVNPWtf4[/media]

Mago (Sagat) vs. Marn (Boxer)

[media=youtube]mGnFh_duj78[/media]

Mago (Sagat) vs. Belbeljin (Boxer)

[media=youtube]KydzzIlk9as[/media]

Tough match up for Sagat because Boxer will definitely test your defense. However, Sagat has the advantage due to his excellent zoning tools and his higher damage output. 6:4 match up favoring Sagat.

Anotak · September 23, 2009, 6:26pm

This is because he falls slower, so keep this in mind that if you want it to hit, you have to put it in later.
Coincidentally, because he falls slower, in the corner you can EX Tiger Knee -> Ultra him (dhalsim too, nobody else afaik). Works the same as EX tiger shot ultra, does more damage though. Great way to finish the match if they’re at low life. You don’t get the full ultra because it’s the corner though, just like with EX shot -> ultra.

djKun · September 24, 2009, 12:03am

because Sagat doesn’t have bike money.

Other then that, I always do fadc, f.hk a bit too late on boxer, I think he falls a bit faster then slower.

Creazn · September 24, 2009, 4:30pm

Additional info:

BOXER
I’ve tested the cr. HP against Boxer and it’s very effective. It’s safer than the st.HK. It’s because ur crouching. You can easily punish his dash attacks. If I’m not mistaken almost all his dash attacks.

BLANKA
Against Blanka, like PlaygroundLegen said, I spam the crap out of Blanka with low TS, but I also use many short jabs (cr. and st.) between the shots. When they do their horizontal roll I just jab them out of their roll, even EX rolls! (but it’s better to block and do the low EX TS). Most Blanka players will fall for it, because they rely very much on their rolls. Normally I turtle a lot in slide range: when they roll I jab them out of it, when they jump in I TU them, when they slide I punish them with a combo or just TU/TK/Throw. In mid range or close range it’s difficult to time the TU right, a short jab is much safer. You can also roundhouse (fw.HK) and Ultra the rainbow roll (backwards roll).

Learn the BL players habits. Most players use different routines to attack. A good blanka I’ve played crosses up really nasty and is hoppin left and right making you guessing wether he will throw, cr. HK or smthin else. Even he had a pattern and many times I could TU him or just throw him when he was doing it.

RUFUS
Add that his messiah kick can easily be punished with st.HK.

CAMMY
When you are about to win and want to finish Cammy with a (chip damage) LTS, NEVER do this at close or midrange!! In the past I got stuffed a couple of times like that. You don’t want to lose like that. Just bait the ultra or finish it at a safe distance.

SAKURA
Sakura can be a pretty damn annoying and difficult matchup for Sagat if you don’t know how to encounter her. I’ve seen many good sagats being stuffed by a good Sakura.

Far range:

Shoot tigershots at far range all day long when she doesn’t have her EX
When she’s got meter don’t shoot predictable! Jab between the shots and make her guess, because she has a really good move to stuff our TS form far, her EX jump-n into 3 punches (don’t know its name)

Mid range:

Don’t shoot predictable your TS. A EX whirlwind will punish into a combo or Ultra. She can also EX DP you.
Don’t jump in too much. She has a good AA for that, her cr. HP.
If she jumps in TU/HK/fw HK her

Close range

Don’t make mistakes close range especially When your recovering she just cr.HP, EX whirlwind and further combo you.
Zone your TK distance well. Use your jabs and cr.lk.
A combo of Sakura: crHP - EX whirlwindkick - st. jab (you will ‘juggle’ a bit) - crosses up by dashing - (jab) - crHp and EX whirlwind kick you again into Ultra or jumping punches. When she tries to do that block it the opposite direction or TU her.

Video:
Sabre vs Danimitsu
[media=youtube]yAT7hrJM98o&feature=player_embedded[/media]

Match 1
Round 1: Sagat
Round 2: Sakura
Round 3: Sakura

Match 2
(starts at 3:51)
Round 1: Sakura
Round 2: Sagat
Round 3: Sakura

Match 3
(starts at 6:38)
Round 1: Sakura
Round 2: Sakura
Match 4
(starts at 8:35)
Round 1: Sagat
Round 2: Sagat

EmblemLord · September 24, 2009, 9:59pm

I think this would be incorrect.

All versions of buttslam are vulnerable on the way down. And EX actually has the least amount of invincibility.

jewelman · September 25, 2009, 4:03pm

then test it out

EmblemLord · September 25, 2009, 5:34pm

Ok, when you say tk you gotta clarify. We talked about it last night.

TK strings aren’t tight. If you know TK is coming everyone in the game has something to beat it. I saw talking about raw TK or if you just happened to do a random ex sumo smash then I responded with knee.

I assume you are talking about a TK that you expected from a block string in which case I would just say duh everyone can shut that shit down lol.