Up close Chun is devastating, but whenever you have break and she’s kinda close, c.lp>LTS. the c.lp has good range and comes out in 3 frames so it’d stuff anymove she’d try to do up close, and the LTS to push her farther to zone again. Chun is dangerous up close, but in some instances just be patient and BLOCK accordingly until you see an opening.
This match is pure zone on both ends. Remember that Sagat has Kara-shots, these ontop of a good sense of zoning is the key to this match. Kara-shotting for pressure and re-pushing him out really sets his mind straight. You can also punish in places where you normally can’t.
Ex:
Full screen Sagat throws HP HTS, Ryu ducks, Ryu fireballs after, Sagat kara-EX shots and gets a 2 hit shot juggle.
Remember, you win fireball wars. If they’re simply jumping over your fireballs, figure out when and where they are jumping and mix up the speeds. It will catch them more often then not. If they jump over a shot full screen, and you kara-LTS, it will push them back and they’re forced to block it and be at mid-range (outside low forward range) where Sagat poses more of a threat then Ryu does. Kara-uppercuts also catch from this range, where st. hk is normally the jump punisher. Use st. lk to zone him and just straight zone him, keep him where he has to guess between jumping or getting pushed back. If the Ryu is anywhere decent he should be fireballing right back.
This is one of the more fun matches to play.
Also try to master Jumping H.p to Kara uppercut. When Ryu does his fireball his hitbox extends horizontally , jumping H.p to kara uppercut can be comboed from ridicolous range .This is one of the best tools to have against Ryu.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jijichamploo#p/f/2/WWu3xQGu4cU first 15 seconds in.
Heres a compiled list of some great vegas to fight against…let them know u added them from VEGAS LIST
http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=220046
i also seem to have a hard time frame trapping chun li
during a string or any kind of frame trap attempt her c.lk beats out almost everything i do
am i just doing it too slow?
i also seem to have a hard time frame trapping chun li
during a string or any kind of frame trap attempt her c.lk beats out almost everything i do
am i just doing it too slow?
Apologies for the extended hiatus, but I’m back and I’ll update this thread.
i dont main sagat… i did main him the first half year of sfiv tho, and i were thinking about sagats 5 “worst” matchups today… what characters are that? correct me if im wrong, but i listed these characters that give him more trouble than the rest imo(random order);
Akuma, Chun-Li, Vega, Blanka(?), Dhalsim, Cammy(?)
so yeah…correct me if im wrong, i could be major wrong with cammy and maybe blanka… but the rest 3 then…?
Akuma is definitely one of his hardest matchups, but is still a 5-5
Chun has a lot of tools, and good pokes, that can definitely be hard if I don’t figure out the player’s patterns. Good thing that most chuns get really predictable with easy to bait and punish moves
Vega can be completely awkward to fight. I do fine if I can score a knockdown or get him in a corner, but not many people play him that often so getting good in the match up is harder for a sagat than for a vega. But I guess that is the ONLY advantage he has against sagat.
Blanka isn’t a very hard match up IMO
Dhalsim sin’t that bad either, but it’s kind of the same thing as vega, they have way more practice against sagat that sagat has against dhalsim
Cammy has nothing that should give sagat too much trouble. She has good hit confirmations, but that is about it. I’d hardly but her as a harder match up than ryu, balrog or bison.
il0veb00ty: i totally agree with you on dhalsim actually and lets put cammy and blanka aside… there are also personall thoughts involved in all of this, but these are my thoughts for the 3 characters thats left;
Akuma: I know this is sagats hardest matchup, but i kinda think Akuma has a slight advantage and therefore 6-4 Akumas favour. he has sick mixups and can do alot of stuff on opponents wakeup, esp. on sagat which is so big, so stuff gets easier there, the HK is very good, which you can loop, and sure, even tho its quite of a damage scaling, it gives you stun so… its like Akumas can do alot of stuff on sagat on his wakeup but not vice verse, akumas wins fireballs, the HK for combo/damage/stun
Vega: Ive always thought that Vega actually has a good chance in this matchup, and just yesterday i saw some american video where the commentator said (i dont know if this is true) but something like “actually many ppl think that vega has the advantage in this matchup…” id say its 5-5 here
Chun-Li: i think she’s slightly better than vega in this matchup, so id say 5-5 here.
Gouki vs Sagat is certainly not 5/5. There is nothing indicating this would be so. Gouki outclasses Sagat in all areas in this fight other then maximum damage output thanks to Ultra combos. Other then that though Gouki takes it. 6/4 Gouki’s advantage.
Claw Vs Sagat is not 5/5. Bring up any points and I will counter them. The only legit advantage Claw has is the Izuna loop which Sagat can still get out of.
Chun-li just loses in the fb war and is forced to move. 6/4 Sagat here.
Unless the only Akuma you play is Momochi or Tokido then i dont think Akuma can be said to be 6/4 v Sagat. Definiately 5/5
I was under the impression that match-up discussion is high level play only. If Momochi and Tokido are the pinnacle then that’s what we go by. You don’t say well the ratio changes depending on your comp. That’s a slippery slope. Why not write different match-ups for every single skill level?
Match-ups are really just a comparison of the two chars based on their tools and how they interact. Gouki’s tools allow him to do well in this particular match.
Someone like Alioune should write up a matchup advice thread so the OP isn’t mid level junk. If you need a decent abel player to stumble into your thread and educate you on your own matchup advice you’re obviously sourcing your info from the wrong sagat players.
i feel like i have the most trouble w/ viper (5/5), but i don’t have a local viper player at all (not even a scrubby) so i can’t get a whole lot of experience in the matchup. in my experience sagat vs. akuma is 5/5, but we don’t have a good akuma here that is equal to my skill level or better. Emblem, I’m curious, what in particular do you think it makes it in Akuma’s favor?
its gonna have garbage in it no matter who writes it
you just gotta read it and then use your head in applying it instead of taking it at face value
Why wouldn’t it be.
What does Sagat have to hurt Gouki’s game? Sagat can’t pressure Gouki on wake-up and Gouki laughs at tk pressure thanks to tele. Mid screen teles are basically free. You can try to predict a tele, but if he didn’t do one then guess what? Gouki gets up for free. On knockdown Sagat is Gouki’s bitch. Ever been looped for 35% life and a knockdown? Shit isn’t fun. Then he can kill yo tall ching chong ass off one knockdown. Honestly this match would be worse then 6/4 if not for silly good options that Sagat has like TU FADC and his ultra set-ups. But one mistake on Gat’s part means he loses a good chunk of health, takes alot of stun and he’s on the ground and has to deal with vortex.
Fun fucking times.
…just, what? she loses fireball war? you know chun’s fireball is charge right? u bearly use fireballs vs. sagat if you’re chun-li, she got POKES, which is way over 50% of the gameplay, zoning/spacing and pokes, MAYBE sagat/vega is 6-4, im not to sure, but i will totally stick with 5-5 on sagat/chun…
i totally agree with you on the akuma matchup, 6-4 akumas favour, hell, even mago says its 6-4! :rock:
What does Chun have that would allow her to go even with Sagat? She doesn’t have the tools. Plain and simple. That’s all match-ups are. The comparison and interaction of the tools each char possesses. Not to mention Chun is one of the chars that Sagat can totally sodomize on wake-up. No no. This fight is not even. Chun has pokes.
That’s it.
Sagat has…everything else.
Chun has her pokes for sure… she also has some of the best tick throws, but that doesn’t make it CLOSE to even when that is ALL she has. Every one of her moves loses to TU, and once you have 2 bars, and have their poking pattern figured out, it is over.
i currently have a lot of trouble agianst chun
i played smoothcat’s chun and he completely rapes and spits on me after knockdown
chunli has a safe jump in on sagat that makes all TUs whiff and she’ll end up behind you
i have to work on knowing how to block the jumping fp/fp fp mix up of hers
and since TU is taken away during wake up, she can do empty jump in wake ups all day as well
shes pretty scary up close