You’re not considering max level when making tiers for an RPG? :3 Shoot, I would put Shaman at top tier for WoW then because they’re absolute beasts at level 30-60.
WoW and most MMOs have a very heavy focus on max level endgame content. PSO really doesn’t. I’d say late-Very Hard and early Ultimate runs are where the tier differences matter the most. At the very least, it’s where RAcaseal starts to fall, RAmarl begins to own hard, and FOmar overtakes the FOney.
Max level in PSO is a different beast. You’re talking literally thousands of hours to hit a goal at which there is pretty much nothing more to do with that character except hunt for the same gear you’ve been hunting for the last 70 levels. It’s an endgame so far away (the grind from 190-200 is as long as the grind from 1-190) and, frankly, so pointless (Everything wrecks shop at 200) that tiring the characters by their 200 ranking alone is a fairly asinine endeavor. The Forces would drop to being Upper and Mid as they start to fall behind on the damage curve, the HUCast would probably take the top tier by himself, and the RAmar, HUmar, RAcaseal, and HUcaseal would have a noticeable gap between themselves and everyone else (But still capable of pretty much butchering most of the game’s content by themselves.)
Ah, makes sense. So the leveling tapers off at around 150, and from there endgame begins?
I stopped playing PSO after the first one, so level 200 is pretty ridiculously above where PSO1 was at. :3
Priests are not low tier, are you serious bro? Neither are shamans. How would you like to raid without VE, CoH, PRoM, Windfury, Mana Tide, and Bloodlust?
My response list, split up into roles (healing/dps/tanking) rather than specs. It’s based mostly on how viable the class is in PvP and how much they bring to a raid in PvE, spread out over the history of WoW dating back to when I started playing in December 2005. I’ll try to keep it unbiased; I have played a Rogue since 2005, and a Resto Shaman from mid-2007 to WOTLK launch, and Elemental in WOTLK. I quit in May and kind of kept up to date with what has gone on, but I haven’t really looked at the 3.2 notes at all.
Here it is:
God tier:
**Resto Druid: **When have these guys NOT been good? PvE they have the 2nd best raid healing, as well as innervate and battle rez, pretty good mana management skills due to the ability to stay out of 5SR a lot, and great itemization in that they can use their set items, casting leather and any offset priest cloth. In PvP? By far the best PvP healer in all seasons except 5, and even then there were a few really successful Druids.
Rogue: Always one of the strongest PvE DPS classes since the very beginning, as well as having Mage/Rogue and PMR as reliable arena teams every season. Seasons 3 and 4 also had Rogues in a number of powerful comps, such as 2v2 with Druids, Warlocks, Ret Paladins and Priests of any spec, and 3v3 with Lock/Druid, Lock/Shaman, etc. The only downside is we never had any raid buffs until Tricks in WOTLK, but sometimes we could do some tricky shit like tanking Reliquary phase 1, supplying mind-numbing/anesthetic poisons, and even kiting some stuff.
***A tier: ***
Holy Paladin: Best single target healer, and now in WOTLK can do pretty good group healing while keeping a tank alive thanks to Bacon. Yes, BACON. Salv was amazing until it was changed in 3.0, but it’s still good. Also the best healer in S5 when burst was stupidly high.
DPS Warrior: Warriors have always had their place since the end of vanilla WoW. In BC, Fury and Arms were both viable at times, and in early WOTLK as well. Battle Shout and Blood Frenzy are great (de)buffs. Also, they can supply TClap and Demo Shout so the tank doesn’t have to do it. PvP they’ve always been a contender.
Holy/Discipline Priest: I considered listing them separately since Holy tends towards group healing in PvE, and Disc leans toward tank and PvP healing, but I decided to group them since they’re both healers and any decent priest would be able to do either. Anyway, for their respective roles both types of healing Priests have been solid for a long time, bringing a variety of healing methods (group casted, group instant, shields, prayer of mending, HoTs, binding heal, healing after death with spirit of redemption, and OH SHIT buttons in the form of wings and pain suppression).
Mage: Mages also have consistently been a solid class in PvE, supplying food/water/AI and being a competitor on DPS meters since the beginning (just ignore Sunwell…). In PvP they provide great burst as well as the best interrupt (and imp CS too!), and sheeps/roots. They’re also a pain in the ass to kill, especially as melee :looney:
Warlock: I really wasn’t sure where to put them, but I think here will work. Not that great pre-BC (many guilds brought only one, just to SS and make healthstones), but towards the end of BC they were the top DPS and they only had to press 1 button to do it! Demonology has been a solid spec for PvP also.
DPS Death Knight: Solid raid buffs (blood/unholy aura, talons, etc.), solid debuffs (ebon plague), and good DPS. And Paladin/DK was stupid in S5. Most DPS DKs could also offtank without switching specs, provided they had gear up to par with the content.
***B tier: ***
Hunter: When they’re good, they’re great. When they have a bad patch they’re really bad. Blessed with never having to download a threat meter, and back at the end of BC they could compete on the damage meters by spamming a macro, most hunters I know just sat watching TV and spammed their SS/KC macro and still did 2000+ DPS in BT/Sunwell. Some hunter comps in S4 were real pains, such as Hunter/Priest, and Hunter/Lock/Druid.
Elemental/Enhance Shaman: Never topped the meters, but DPS shamans have always been highly sought-after by their respective groups that they buff. GIEV WINDFURRY+BUTTLUST. Only problem is totems aren’t mobile, and easily killed by totemstomp macros in PvP. I think if they revamped the totem system to something closer to paladin auras, shamans will be much more viable in PvP.
Resto Shaman: In the words of one of my old guildmates, a haiku on the usefulness of LWing Shamans in Sunwell:
“DRUMS SHAMAN DRUMS DRUMS
SHAMAN SHAMAN DRUMS SHAMAN
DRUMS DRUMS SHAMAN DRUMS”
Also, there were some fun comps with them. I played Rogue/Frost Mage/Afflic Lock/Shadow Priest/Resto Shaman back in S3 and almost made Gladiator with it, but we didn’t play very often :bluu: Also, the problems with totems I listed above hurt resto shamans as well.
C tier:
Retribution Paladin: Horrible for years, these guys got the last laugh midway through TBC when they were buffed up to powerhouse status, supplying solid PvE DPS, great raid buffs, and hilarious burst damage in PvP.
Shadow Priest: Once 2.0 hit every raid needed one. Also, they have been a long-time friend of Rogues in 2v2.
Feral DPS/Boomkin Druid: Always kind of a niche class. Some guilds have been using DPS Druids since pre-BC, but they are few and far between. In BC they really became viable to bring one of each spec, but still they were a one-max class and had very few viable arena comps.
D tier:
Protection Paladin: Slightly above the other tanks due to blessings, BoP, DI, and supplying JOL/JOW.
Feral Tank Druid: Leader of the Pack is great as always, and they have the best DPS while tank spec/geared.
Tanking Death Knight: Can still supply some raid buffs such as Icy Talons if specced for it, but pretty meh.
Shit tier:
Protection Warrior: Alright, you might be wondering about this one. Frankly, prot warriors are good for tanking and that’s just about it. Main tanking, that is. If it’s a one-tank boss fight, they’re nothing more than a Demo/TClap/Shattering bot. Few raid buffs/boss debuffs to speak of that can’t be filled by a DPS warrior, and almost no PvP viability at all.
If you’re wondering, I’m having a slow day at work and needed something to pass the time :looney:
Your tier system is based off mostly BC stuff, and not representative of arena or raid representation. Sure Enhance are sought after, maybe one of them, per raid… maybe even per guild. The same go for Shadow Priests. Very minimal need for them compared to any other caster. Slap on them the PvP detriments of their DPS specs, and you’re left with a very bad choice in class.
Even then, a DK brings similar buffs to an Enhance Shaman, while the buffs an Elemental can give are limited, and can be brought by a Druid. A Druid also has THREE very viable arena specs, while the Shaman is left to healing as his only top representative spec, yet he’s also the worst healer.
So how can you possibly rate them higher when their best spec, healing, is one of the worst represented and successful specs, and their dps are nonexistent, and compose the least required spec in any raid? (Not to mention, Resto Shaman, CAN provide the same totem buffs and Bloodlust of their DPS counterparts.)
Also, Priests as healers are highly sought after in Arena, with their DPS and one on one capability being rather dismal. Even their leveling process and soloability is pretty lame in comparison to other casters. They bring interesting buffs in PvP in Shadow, but nothing you wouldn’t want a Mage or even a Warlock over. You have to look at everything in a more all encompassing way. Healing is too different a playstyle to look at when you address hybrids. It’s a completely different spec.
It’s like switching Ryu to a charge character without fireballs in Street Fighter. You can’t even look at him the same way.
If a new player were to look at my tier list, he could reasonably assume what his experience in WoW would be vs other classes. Other raiders and arena players would concur (CURRENT players), as in every tier list, the bottom doesn’t necessarily mean useless. It doesn’t mean they don’t have redeeming features WHICH you listed, but it doesn’t make them better than the other classes for the roles they were given.
My system works like this:
“Man, I want to play WoW. I want to be able to PvP, Raid, Solo in the world, but also work in groups, be the best at what I do, and be able to do many things. I want to do Arena… but I also want to be great at Battlegrounds, maybe even World PVP! I don’t want to be the only one in the raid, I want to be useful. I want to be able to switch my playstyle, without having to abandon why I chose the class. I want to be successful, competetive in as many facets as I can. I want to win, not just be fun… but that wouldn’t hurt either.”
Now look at the tier list again.
My deal with DPS Shamans/Priests are that you will have one. You’re right, probably one maximum, but definitely one. I challenge you to find a guild that completed Sunwell pre-3.0 without at least one enhance shaman (some even had a second one for the hunter group). And Shadow Priests were never really a horrible class in PvP.
I’m a little confused on what you’re saying about healers. Are you saying that because Elemental/Enhance Shamans have buffs that can be brought by other classes, they should be ranked based on their Resto spec, and that’s the lowest? I put Resto Shaman as the lowest of the four healers (Druid is S, Paladin/Priest are A, Shaman is B). You’re probably right that I should drop Shaman DPS specs to C tier, but overall I think they’re the healing class that is most balanced (no spec really lags behind the others by a huge amount).
Shadow Priests in PvP: Sure, they supply worse DPS than Mages or Warlocks, but Mages can’t fear bomb and neither Mages nor Warlocks can pop out and heal if the going gets rough. Never underestimate the strength of a quick shield or GHeal.
“Healing is too different a playstyle to look at when you address hybrids. It’s a completely different spec.”
I did list hybrids’ healing and DPS specs separately, what are you talking about?
And here’s another (shorter) tier list, since I still have an hour at the office and I’m bored.
Final Fantasy 8 GFs, ranked by damage, boostability, and abilities.
God tier: Eden, is this even up for debate?
High tier: Doomtrain, Bahamut, Cerberus, Diablos
Mid tier: Ifrit, Alexander, Shiva, Leviathan, Brothers, Quezacotl
Low tier: Pandemona, Siren, Tonberry, Cactaur
Shit tier: Carbuncle
Looks right, not even played the game that much but the names make sense. Though I would think Alexander should be higher, is he just “ok” compared to the top?
Edit: Do you even currently play the game? I’m curious.
I guess he ranked Alexander as Mid because the attack was Holy Elemental, where as Bahamut is nonelemental, so it doesn’t really have resistances.
-Eden is God Tier because it broke damage limit
-Doomtrain caused all sorts of status problems, and it did that thing that reduces the enemy’s defense to 0.
-Diablos did % damage according to his level (level 100 Diablos did 100% damage to enemies).
-He ranked Elemental GFs as Mid due to enemies’ various weaknesses/resistances
The list is pretty good.
He has decent damage at best, holy element has its uses but if you’re just going for damage you might as well use Bahamut or Eden. He has good side abilities though, like Med Level Up and Med Data, Elem Defx4, and High Magic Refine.
The ideal strategy late in the game is to start a boss fight by throwing up Double/Triple using Cerberus, summon Doomtrain to lower the boss’s defense and maybe blind/poison/silence them, then get Aura and Haste on everyone and start spamming limit breaks. So honestly I don’t use GFs much for their summoned attack, just the support stuff.
Diablos is high tier because early in the game and against non-bosses he fucks shit up, and he has some cool abilities like Enc-None, Time Magic Refine, Abilityx3, and Mug. Ifrit, Leviathan, Quezacotl, Shiva, Brothers are all mid tier because they have some useful junctions and abilities, but nothing really stands out.
Low tier is pretty much gimmicky shit that you can go past in the game without bothering to get and you would never miss having it.
Carbuncle is fucking Carbuncle. I can’t think of a single time when I’d want to put reflect on my whole party, thus negating my ability to heal them :looney: It would be good if there was a boss that did ONLY magic attacks, but there isn’t.
Diablos gets my vote as the best GF in the game. Mug, Ability x3, and the Encounter-Half/None abilities put him way above any other GF considering how early you get him. He helps prevent you from accidentally overleveling, which is generally bad in FF8. That being said, there could be an argument for bumping Quezacoatl a notch or two because Carding enemies prevents EXP gain and gets you cards for modding (weak argument, I know, but it’s something to consider).
Eden is a monster, but on a scale of utility over time, I’d say Diablos wins. At the very least, he should be top of High.
I’m also tempted to bump Siren up; she’s crappy as a summon, but the Status attack and defense junctions along with refines plus Move-Find means she’s got a good set of abilities. She should be bumped up to the bottom of Mid, and Brothers should be below Pandemona. Brothers has crap for abilities; at least Pandemona has Speed junction.
Looks good on the whole, though. I’m just a goddamned nitpicker.
I haven’t played ff8 in a while but I remember I was trying to get no exp at all until I got gf that had stat bonuses so you can get higher stat gains on level up. I know that Bahamut had the str bonus. I forgot what gf had the other bonuses. Though if you junction ultima to anything it basically maxes out and after ultima I think Aura is the next best junctioned magic.
Tonberry could be higher if you needed his shop but in reality you probably have more than you need at the final dungeon.
Cactaur has all 5 bonuses at once when you get him.
Tonberry really sucks. I never junctioned anything he gave me, nor did I use the shop because it’s so easy to have anything you could ever want by card modding.
Quezacotl does have Card and Mod, but I don’t use Card much since I got every single card in the game starting with just the 5 or so they give you at the beginning. And I never needed to get more from monsters because I’m a Tetra Master whore and I play a lot, so I had plenty of spares :looney:
Brothers has HP+20/40/80%. Baller.
So yeah, I could see switching Brothers and Siren, but other than that nothing else.
Well, after Arcane and Divine Power, and the July errata, I thought I’d revisit this one and take a crack at a 4e tier list:
S+
Wizard - Orb of Imposition is broken. Even discounting that, though, this class still has a lot the best control powers in the game. With the Fighter’s most abusive tricks being toned down heavily, the Wizard stands alone at the top. But fear not, it’s not like previous editions where he makes everyone obsolete at their jobs.
S
Ranger - Also helped by the Fighter’s recent power check, this class once again is the undisputed king of damage per round.
Fighter - Just because this class’ old bullshit (i.e. Battlerager Vigor, Marked Scourge, Dual Strike, Rain of Blows) got knocked back to Earth doesn’t mean this class still doesn’t rock. Zweihander Fighters can still do damage competitive with all Strikers in the game except for Rangers, and it is still arguably the best Defender (albeit by a much smaller gap than before).
Paladin - The big mover of all the classes. Went from rather underwhelming before Divine Power’s release to pretty damn powerful after. Credit for that upward mobility goes to MUCH improved utility powers at Heroic Tier, powers that impose the new Divine Sanction mark (which rocks), and some very fine feats at all Tiers of play, some of which make them a lot more indestructible than before. Strength-based Paladins got steered more toward a secondary Striker role and do it pretty well (better than the actual Divine Striker, in fact), and Charisma-based Paladins also improved their secondary Leader and healing capabilities with more powers and feats. Excellent paragon paths, too, some of which now may be overpowered with the base class having caught up.
A
Warlord - Still arguably the best Leader in the game (although not the best healer). Tactical Warlords can easily put the party in terrific situations, and other Warlords are the best at buffing the party.
Cleric - Divine Power has upped his healing ability big time, to the point where he’s the best healer in the game, hands down. Not as good at buffing or positioning as the Warlord, though.
Barbarian - Second-best Striker in the game. Actually can nova better than the Ranger, but sustained DPR is less. Also gets killed more easily. Still, the Barbarian does a lot of damage.
Bard - Sort of straddled between the Warlord’s and Cleric’s tendencies. Heals better than the Warlord but not as good as the Cleric, buffs and maximizes tactics better than the Cleric but not as good as the Warlord. Multiclass versatility is really awesome, though, and he also has some good enemy debuffs and secondary Controller spells.
B
Invoker - Solid Controller. Doesn’t have anything broken like the Wizard does. But you can’t complain about this one. Decent secondary leader qualities, too.
Warden - Solid and durable Defender class. Doesn’t handle shift + charge as well as the Fighter does, or even the Paladin for that matter. Utility powers aren’t too impressive at the moment, but the daily guardian forms are quite awesome.
Sorcerer - Good Striker with some solid area-of-effect potential as well.
Swordmage - Up here because of Aegis of Shielding (the only Aegis worth a damn). Aegis of Shielding can more or less nullify one attack per round against an ally. Not higher because a Paladin with the Hospitaler paragon path currently makes him cry.
C
Rogue - His bonus Striker damage is harder to get than some of the other Strikers’, and he doesn’t do as much damage in most cases as the Ranger or Barbarian.
Shaman - The weakest of the Leader classes, easily (note Primal Power isn’t out yet, though). Heals fairly well but just doesn’t do the overall job as well as the other Leaders.
D
Druid - Pretty underwhelming as a Controller.
Avenger - They have a great feature in Oath of Enmity and precisely no powers at all that help them take advantage of it. Easily the most poorly designed class in 4e. It’s still hard to tell exactly what they’re supposed to do. Heavy multiclassing is needed to get the most out of this one. Divine Power’s release did little to help it.
Warlock - Just plain weak, even after the release of Arcane Power. For a Striker, he sure doesn’t deal a whole lot of damage. Does inflict a lot of status effects, but than again, so do Wizards and Paladins.
Considering that you say your tier includes PvP and PvE, why is Hunter B+? Good Hunters should be consistently topping damage charts in most raid scenarios and their threat control options are amazing. Granted MD has a lost a little due to Rogue’s Tricks of the Trade, but it’s still a very useful tool. Hunters are also one of the best kiting classes in the game and skillful use of traps can help keep healers safe from unwanted aggro in a bad situation, as well as simply provide CC in general should the need arise.
IDK so much about their PvP viability, but PvE at least they are certainly better than B tier.
I was doing 2500 DPS in T5 gear as deep Survival / light Marks.
Looks pretty good to me. Thought Invokers would be higher, though; they did get some ridiculous stuff in DP.
Now I’m kind of interested in what a Challenge tierlist would look like. Unfortunately I only had one challenge character, but if you’ve played a bunch of them would you mind throwing one together? All I remember is that my main character (huney) sucked in challenge so I had to make a hucast for it.
Castlevania: SOTN tiers (done already, but w/e, PSX version)
S: Alucard
A: Richter
Alucard just has way too much shit over Richter’s Hydro Storm and power. Richter can move fast with the slide and all, but Alucard’s bat smash and dash-canceling just make him better. Also, Crissaegarm, Shield Rod + Alucard Shield, and all of Alucard’s batshit insane stuff.
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I think that should answer your question.
I have a simple one.
Final Fantasy Tactics.
S Tier - Any female character.
A Tier - Orlandu, Beowulf
Bottom - Everything else.
smb2
top luigi
high princess
mid mario
bottom toad