Tiers for non-fighting games?

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
1801

TMNT Classic Arcade:

  • Don - Best range, which puts him at an advantage, especially againist spear foots.

  • Leo - 2nd best range, good melee attacks

  • Raph - He has the worse range, but his rolling kick move is good for rushing into mobs and it give him more mobility over the other turtles. Melee is fast too.

  • Mike - His range is only slighty better then Raph, but he still has to get in close to whack foes. He’s doesn’t have inconsistent melee attacks (One of his melee swings will whiff sometimes or trade) and knockdown attack doesn’t have as much range as Leo and Don, so it’s not as useful but still good. IMO, he’s only slighty lower then raph.

1802

This week’s special tier list:

Tetris Piece Tier Listing

God tier: Straight line, "T"
Top Tier: Left and Right "L"s
Mid Tier: Box
Crap Tier: Left and Right "Z"s.

1803

this list is lopsided…

first of all, aside from the MC and Rise, who can’t be tiered for obvious reasons, the top tier consists of Yosuke and Chie
then next are Kanji, Yukiko, Teddie
then Naoto

reasoning:
Yosuke’s just good at everything at endgame. Wind boost + amp, brave blade is all you need to rape, he’s quick (almost always goes first), and dekaja is sort of nice (although you really should be using your MC to support your team members)
Early on, he’s great, Sonic Punch crits like a mofo, midgame, he’s good. Good all around.

Chie: the only bad points she has are the fact that she has no team buff and during mid game she doesn’t have great physical skills. Her magic is only there for knockdowns. If you want ice magic, use Teddie. She should be doing physical damage every turn, and that’s what she’s great at. God’s Hand is godly, especially with power charge. Plus she gets good counter skills. She’s a little more balanced than Kanji throughout the game (her magic is okay early to mid), and that’s why I put her above Kanji. It’s really debatable.
Also, her Galatic Punt can IK some bosses, so that’s a plus.

Kanji: really misunderstood (even out of battle lol), but his effectiveness late game is phenomenal, ESPECIALLY against bosses. Gets matarukaja, which is awesome, and his strength and defense are through the roof. By late game, he does much more damage through his physicals than Yukiko can do with her magic (even though her magic is still beastly). His follow up skill borders on broke, too. I’ll admit that he totally sucks when you first get him, but he only gets better. also: his high strength helps in AOA.

Yukiko: good (amazing) magic, has the best healing in Salvation, but damage output is inferior to the characters above her by endgame. She’s very useful though, don’t get me wrong. Very balanced. The weakness thing sucks, but bufu weak isn’t so bad, since not too many enemies have it (just don’t bring her to the Shadow Teddie fight).

Teddie: decent magic, and definitely the best support character. Traesto is nice, if you don’t have any Gohomes.
2 glaring problems: 1 - weakness to the ever common zio magic, and 2 - defense worse than Yukiko (wtf, Kuma). He’s soft. I can’t argue with maraku and mataru, but like I said earlier, your MC can (and should) do this job better than he can.

Naoto: hope you find the Chakra ring, or you’ll be filling the Fox’s coffers every few floors in a dungeon. Good against normal mobs, sucky against bosses (basically the opposite of Kanji). Having no weaknesses and balanced stats is nice, but the fact that her skills are so expensive kills it, plus I find her physical (Vorpal Blade is NOT the same as it was in P3) and Megido skills to be weak. Hama/Mudo is nice, but why waste a party slot on her when you could be using some persona like Alice or Daisojou (for Die For Me and Samsara respectively)? Like Teddie, another character that the MC could do much better than with the same skillset should you so choose.

1804

“CrystalLight Tower Defense” on the Android platform

Good Tier: Red/Yellow (red is much better early game, yellow is much better late game)
Bad Tier: Blue
Completely Awful Tier: Green

“Retro TD” for Android

Ultimate Domination Tier: Blue
Worthless Tier: Non-blue

1805

Phantasy Star Online

Top tier: RAcast, HUcast, FOnewm, FOnewearl
High tier:HUmar, HUcaseal, FOmar, RAmar
Low tier: FOmarl, HUnewearl
Shit tier: RAmarl, RAcaseal

1806

Wow. This tier list would have Lex Luthor screaming at the top of his lungs. I’m assuming this is for Blue Burst, right? (Not that this tier list changes much from Ep 1 and 2 and Ep 1 and 2 Plus)

FOnewearl is probably the worst Force, by a huge margin. Boost to basic techs is handy at the levels where all the forces suck, but having the highest MST in the game isn’t really made up for by her terrible everything-else and the only useful boosted tech she has is Resta. FOmar and FOnewm completely outdamage her in all but a handful of scenarios, and FOmarl trades a little less in the damage catagory for a lot more utility and staying power.

RAcast was ok, but all other Rangers were completely outstripped by the RAmarl- having access to lv 20 buff AND debuff spells, which generally ment she had the highest damage output AND best defenses of all the rangers, with only the loss of traps (I’d rather have the buffs/debuffs) to cover for it. This comes up again with the HUnewearl, who’d probably be the best Hunter if the ATP gap between her and the HUcast was anywhere near as close as it was between the RAcast and RAmarl- as it is, she’s better then the HUcaseal and HUmar.

The RAcast and RAcaseal are easially the worst two classes in the game. Slower ATA growth (especially on the RAcast) kept their equips levels behind their meatbag counterparts instead of ahead like the Hunter robots, and the lack of support techs kept their damage/defenses from keeping up in the later levels, since the gap between RAcast and RAmarl’s stats is much smaller then that of the HUcast and HUnewearl.

Hunters are where the greatest stat disparity shows up (The gap between the HUcast and the HUnewearl in ATP, HP, and DFP is huge) which is why the big bad robot gets the nod. He’s probably THE best non-Force, especially when teamed WITH someone else capable of throwing down the supports. Bad ATA hurts a bit, which probably keep him from reaching the level of the better Forces. (It also doesn’t hurt that HUcast has easily the best trap progression of all the robot classes- better then RAcast and absurdly superior to RAcaseal and HUcaseal)

As for forces, they pretty much start getting good once you get into Very Hard, and rule the game once you hit Ultimate. Spells were generally the only things doing good damage anywhere before the early 100s without super-rare gear, and Lv 30 support techs let everyone else not RAmarl/HUnewearl feel useful again even without omni-equipment. Each of the non-FOnewearl got a number of useful buffs to their techs- FOmarl got 2x range on her support techs and could actually take a hit or two, FOmar got boosts to the Gi-level spells and Grants on top of bigger Shifta/Deband, and FOnewm traded in utility for raw power with amped-up Gi- and Ra-level techs. FOnewearl got the short end of the stick with her boosted techs and awful stats, but she’s probably still better then most of the Hunters and all of the Rangers.

It probably looks more like:

Top: FOmar, FOnewm
High: FOmarl, HUcast
Mid: FOnewearl, RAmarl, HUnewearl
Low: HUmar, HUcaseal, RAmar
Bottom: RAcast
RAcaseal: RAcaseal

1807

Soloing? Yeah, RAcaseal is the worst, but how is the RAcast inferior to HUcaseal? RAcast wins in ATP and ATA and has better traps.

Other than RAcast’s placement, I agree with this list as a solo tier list. As far as grouping goes, HUmar and RAmar are bottom because they really offer nothing in groups; they’re far better solo-characters. Even RAcaseal is superior in groups because traps and trapsight > anything RAmar has to offer (unless you somehow don’t have a force or HUney/RAmarl in your group, which is very unlikely).

1808

more like george with a double beat

1809

I was mostly looking at a combination of soloing and grouping- in raw soloing I’d probably swap FOmarl and FOnewearl (boost to support techs doesn’t matter much for solo Forcing), dump HUcaseal down and probably put HUcast and HUmar somewhere in a median between where the two is now (Resta, even lv 15 resta, is a huge deal when soloing) On a pure teaming placement, FOmarl and FOnewm switch places, the robo-rangers move up, and the RAmar takes a nosedive. (I’m hesitant to dump HUmar down as far due to being the best tank that doesn’t have nearly as hard a limit on emergency healing as the robots, but honestly I can’t think of a reason beyond that to keep him up.)

HUcaseal got the nod over RAcast due to better equips- Hunter-only equipment and Female-only equipment that is actually worthwhile. Without gear in mind, I’d put RAcast over HUcaseal in a heartbeat, as I would in a scenario where both are in the absolute end-game sets. Plus, as said, RAcast ATA is terrible for a ranger- he lags far, far behind in weapons compared to the other rangers, which hurts because weapons are the only thing that make Rangers worth using over anything else.

1810

Ah, I see where you’re coming from. Hard to do a tier list that includes all variables (ease at soloing, team utility, early game vs. late game viability, etc) in my opinion, but on a second glance, yours is pretty damned spot on.

Poor RAcaseal though. She should’ve been right behind RAmar in ATA; would’ve made her a lot better.

Good point. I’m still thinking ranged > melee, and that only really applies on the higher levels.

1811

Meh, I figure they’re neck to neck in the arms race for most of the game. Hunters, even the low ATP hunters, are going to out-DPS Rangers in most situations for their entire life, but I dare say, especially on Ultimate, the ability to pick at something from well outside melee range with something better then a pistol or slicer makes up for it.

I was mostly talking about Armor and the fact that the RAcast tends to lag in the gun department. Having bad ATA as a ranger is a slippery slope- it means he doesn’t equip as nice a gun as his counterparts can at the same level, which means that a) His higher ATP is mostly there making up the difference, and b) he’s hitting a lot less anyways because of the deficit on both his crummier natural ATA and his weaker gun. Once he gets to the point where he can equip most anything, he starts catching back up, but for some of the best weapons (The Yaskamov family comes to mind) that goes up to 190- which the RAcast doesn’t naturally reach until around level 185- which means he’s frequently using ATA boosting gear where the other rangers move on to either utility or damage-boosting equips.

1812

I beg to differ.

God Tier: Terran, Zerg, Protoss… although probably in that order, just barely though.
Low Tier: Neutral units.

1813

Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1.

God Tier: Rune Glifberg (720 Christ Air just dominates all)
A Tier: Tony Hawk, Bob Burnquist
B Tier: Everyone else.

1814

World of Warcraft - PvP/PvE Combat Tiers (As of 3.1)

Tiers are based on a combination of Arena + Individual performances. PvE is taken into account for possible full rounded gameplay, with the assumption player has no alts. Tanking specs are ignored.

Group and one on one combat is taken into account.

All talent specs are rounded together with the assumption that all DPS specs are available.

S+ Tier
Deathknight
Rogue

A+ Tier
*Mage
Paladin

  • Druid

B+ Tier*
Warrior
Warlock
Hunters*

C+ Tier
*Shaman
Priest

Edit: forgot Hunters, lol.
*

1815

Justification for Shaman being bottom tier? I could see in regards to 1 on 1 PvP but elsewise it doesn’t add up. Are you pulling from actual statistics in Arena or just personal experience?

1816

Both, it’s possible they can enter B tier, but right now Shaman have no reason to be in any arena team in lieu of another class.

The only reason I would bring them to B tier is if I put put the healing specs into aggregated scores, and I’m not currently, since for hybrids, healing specs change the class dramatically. It’d have to almost be considered another class entirely.

Currently, the roles of an Enhance Shaman and an Elemental Shaman are filled in by other classes, when put into equal situations they will fare worse. You pretty much would bring an Enhance Shaman for pressure, high dps and maybe peeling enemies off of team mates. A Deathknight, Rogue and Ret Paladin can do that far better currently, and that’s just looking at other melee classes.

Couple in the fact they have lower survivability than any of the classes in the example you begin to see why. Add to this a poor showing in one on one combat, and a middle of the pack representation in PvE and if it was your choice for one class on a deserted island, you would be picking one of the worst for overall play.

Doesn’t mean they aren’t fun, or that they can’t perform, but currently I see no reason why they should even exist right now. They fill no niche. Elemental are similarly represented in both PvE and PvP, with zero control, and dependent completely on one shot burst to succeed.

Tiers aren’t meant to say oh this guy sucks don’t play him, it’s a direct comparison of one class for another. If you were to describe an Enhance Shaman, I would call him an “Assault” archtype, and DK’s, Ret Paladins and Warriors all fall in that category. How does he fare with that kind of competition?

— As for Priests (Shadow/Disc), I expect them to go up to B or A tier pretty soon. This is all 3.1 data. Enhance might go up as well, thanks to totem changes and Hex being attached to Maelstrom Weapon. Who knows? No changes to survivability kind of keeps them down pretty hard.

1817

Hm, I’ve not played in some months now so maybe there’ve been more changes than I’ve heard about from my friends who’re still in. Either way, as of last time I played Shamans were amazing in raid groups for their CC and versatility.

I guess if your looking purely at being aggressive in combat that the list makes sense. Discluding tanks and heals seems kinda weird though with the claim of taking into account full rounded gameplay.

:shrug: I’m no expert, just random observations. Carry on.

Edit: WTB shrug emote, PST.

1818

Well healing and tanking is fairly balanced gameplay, and isn’t really competative. I think Tiers work in fighting games because they involve a “X” vs “Y” approach to their reasoning. So tanking and healing become arbitrary.

So I try to look at it from that perspective in this thread. If X went against Y in DPS, PvP ability and raid contribution.

In the end, sure I think a lot of classes would be brought up a little and some would drop, but there is enough detriment or bonuses to certain classes in my tier that force them in certain spots. For example, Shadow Priests are beyond useful in a raid, but they’re so pitiful in PvP I wouldn’t reccomend them in any combat situation over any other caster unless in a Disc Healing role. At that point, how can I put them side by side with Mages?

I try to look at from a King of Fighters perspective. I guarantee if you go by my tier list, your three fighters would be pretty damn dangerous at the top, while like any tier system you CAN win with low tier characters, you’ll be working much, much harder.

1819

…

1820

snip quote in quote

FOnewearl: The same comes true of any force, except the FOmarl is doing it better as a support-oriented force and can actually take a risk or two to try and stop a team wipe, while the FOnewm/FOmar are doing much better damage on top of being decent healers. The FOnewearl offers the least of any force when on a team except some boss encounters that are best delt with by the basic techs (where she’s also the most at risk with awful HP and Def)

FOmarl: It’s as much the boost to Jellen/Zalure as it is Shifta/Deband. S/D are the two most important spells in the game, but Z/J are the next in line- yes, moreso then Resta. It’s literally half the reason why Forces enable the non-Force classes to walk into Ultimate pre-100 sans supergear and not instagib in Caves 1. Just having a boosted Z/J is enough to make her more useful then FOnewearl, and everything else is just gravy. MP stops being an issue early enough with a decent item stock that having less MP then a FOnewearl is more of a quality of life issue then a balance factor.

RAcast: Shifta/Deband isn’t the RAcast’s biggest issue. Being the ranger with gimp ATA is the primary issue. Yes, he’s durable but that doesn’t matter for a ranger unless he’s solo. A Ranger needs to be able to a) Hit Things b) Hard, and the RAcast fails at both due to bad comparative natural accuracy and the lag in equipment that he suffers due to it. To put things in perspective, the same rifle the RAcast can’t use until level 185, the RAmar can use early in the 130’s. FIFTY levels. The RAMarl, who gets all the important techs at levels high enough to at least get the job done, can use it around 150. It’s an extreme example, but it’s what happens to the RAcast it’s whole damn life. THAT is what is wrong with the RAcast, and THAT is why he’s sitting at the bottom of the pile. At 200, yes, the RAcast can be mean. At that point, he’s probably the best Ranger in teams, and only gets outsolo’d by the RAmarl. But for the rest of the damn game he’s third fiddle in what’s probably the weakest class, and that’s why I dumped his sorry metal hide to bottom.

The fact that he’s not able to cast Shifta/Deband isn’t going to give him any points in his favor either because S/D and Z/J are bloody important. If you’re someone with them, you’re free to team with whoever. If you’re someone without them, you’re really, really wanting to make sure someone shows up with 'em. Saying “someone else can cast them” is just basically admitting that they need someone else around to function at capacity whereas everyone in the top three tiers except maybe the HUcast don’t have that restriction. (And if you’re about to argue that RAcast is anywhere near on the level of the HUcast in terms of usefulness when buffed to the gills, I am pre-preemptively inserting a round of cruel, spiteful laughter at your expense here) Having access to those skills is a Huge Deal™ should you ever try to solo anything once you hit Ultimate, as well.

HUnewearl/RAmarl- When a Force doesn’t show up, these girls suddenly start looking a lot more valuable. Even if a Force DOES show up, these two can pick up on debuff-duty and act as emergency healers while still filling the role of Smacker/Shooter. They’re also the top soloists of their respective classes, by a healthy amount. I already put the HUnewearl below the HUcast for the raw stats issue, and I see absolutely no reason to put the RAmarl below any of the other rangers, because she’s comparable/better to the RAcast/RAcaseal WITHOUT techs, and… well, she has all the important techs at level 20. That’s pretty much a free pass to the top of the Ranger pile.

RAmar and HUmar- I probably should move the RAmar and HUmar up or the HUcaseal down- I put them mostly in the same place because they’re definitely not as good as the three above them, but they’re not as bad as the RAcast/RAcaseal. Getting too picky means I got to start doing things in direct order and that starts to get messy in PSO.