Tiers for non-fighting games?

I got some more lists. Help me out if you can…

Tales of Symphonia:

Top?: Lloyd, Zelos/Kratos
Upper?: Raine, Genis, Sheena
Mid?: Presea, Regal, Colette

I’m not too sure about those…

Golden Sun The Lost Age:

Top?: Jenna, Isaac (as Masters, they can be the most uber characters in the game)
Upper?: Felix, Garet (tanks. Uber powerful and awesome with the best weapons. Best classes can give good healing as well)
Mid?: Ivan (super fast and can use light blades, but not as uber as the above)
Low?: Sheba, Piers, Mia (weak, sucky class possibilities, dies easily, etc.)

Need to think of more. Also, why is the FF1 Black Mage bottom tier? He is a staply in most players terams, as well as the Fighter and the White Mage. Bottom tier IMO is probably Red Mage/Wizard and Thief/Ninja. Masters also suck for 90% of the game.

NES FF1 Tiers:

Top: Fighter
Second: Red Mage
Middle: Black Belt; Black Mage
Bottom: Thief; White Mage

Fighters are undisputedly the best class in the game. The general rule is: the more Fighters you have in your party, the better your party is. Being an offensive and defensive monster; Fighters can dish it out without having to constantly run away from battles like most other classes would force you to do (White/Black mages). And even better, they take an incredible amount of abuse, truly the only class that can even be considered a tank. The myth is that Fighters are expensive to maintain. This is absolutely false, and they are practically one of the cheapest characters to have in your party if you just realize 2 things: Silver Swords (4000 G) and Steel Armor (35k G) are ripoffs. Don’t buy those 2 things for your Fighters, and then you’ll realize all of their equipment is findable (i.e. FREE).

Red Mages get a bum rap when it is totally not deserved. It’s just, people fail to realize that physical power is so much more effective and important in this game than magic is. Magic has it’s uses for sure; but the way the magic system works, your pure magicians get far too little charges per magic level in comparision to the MANY MANY random battles you encounter. Thus a Red Mage, who has very competent attack power and defense (2nd best DEF behind the Fighter for most of the game), can actually contribute some worthwhile damage in battle where the pure mages are either defending or hitting back for 1 damage. Since a spell is cast the same regardless of the class casting it (their is no INT stat modifier that makes Black mages cast black magic better than Red mages; or White mages casting white magic better than Red mages); the RM has the best versatility of being able to cast all of the pure mages’ important spells, and still having the offensive and defensive capabilities to contribute something in battle.

Black Belts/Monks are overrated. Why? Well everyone loves their high damage and cheap affordability, but they all neglected on very important factor: those players who praise Black Belts probably overleveled a ton. Black Belts are like the FF1 equivalent of FF6 Locke. Overlevel unnecessarily to the point where you can plow through everything with any class; and the overleveled Masters will provide more damage than your Knights. But don’t forget all those levels beforehand where the Black Belt was being smacked around like a red-headed stepchild because his defense was mage-level shit, and his offense (even barehanded) wasn’t matching the Fighter’s swords.

Black Mage. You either get the players who just love BMs no matter what and rate them too high; or you get the ones who realized magic in general in FF1 isn’t as strong as it will be in future FF games, and thus rate the BM too low because they are disappointed with the display of offensive magic available. Truth is, yes, magic is not that powerful in this FF game as in others, but FF1 offensive magic > FF1 healing magic. The problem is mainly around the whole magic level charge system. You fight way too many random battles in this game in contrast to how many spell charges the game gives you. So what happens is, the pure mages end up having to save their charges for bosses, making their participation in the many, MANY random battles practically non-existent. How the BM gets a nod over the WM is again because offensive magic can actually do good damage; and healing magic is essentially unnecessary. But like WMs; the high level spells (level 7 and higher) are essentially worthless. They’re expensive; you get only 1-2 charges of it; and by the time you actually have 3+ charges of it, your characters are already gods (this is for all those praising “NUKE”)

Thief. What’s to say? A second-rate Fighter with much less (and very noticable) attack and less defense. After class change, the Ninja is still second-rate to the Knight in everyway except now he can use low level black magic (which had become obsolete hours ago anyway). Due to the fact “speed” isn’t factored in the NES version of FF1; you can’t even say the Thief has the best chance of running away since all characters have an equal chance of it. Truly bottom tier, do to everything a Thief can do, a Fighter does multiple times better.

White mage. Ah, probably THE most overrated class in the game. Why? Because years of playing many RPGs has conditioned people into believing that healing = essential; and thus any dedicated healing character must be useful. While generally true, it is very much the opposite in NES FF1. Magic in this game is simply too weak; and healing magic at that is especially unnessary do to the fact that most healing is done outside of battle through heal potions rather than Cure spells. The sad fact is, the White mage creates his own demand for healing. Put a white mage in your party, and I can pretty much gurantee you that he will be the one who needs the most healing. Harm is good against undead; but a BM’s fire spells do the same thing except it’s not undead specific; and it’s not competing with Cure spells for charge usage. I challenge anyone to take your favorite party that includes a WM (usually the typical Fi/BB/WM/BM party… which itself is funny because it’s usually recommended to beginners when in fact it’s one of the most difficult parties to play through with); replace the WM with a Fighter, and you’ll have SUCH an easier time with the game. I know people will disagree that a WM is still useful in FF1, but I think it’s because they’re just too conditioned in believing healers are always a benefit, without realizing that in this game, WMs are definitely a handicap to your party.

So would the #1 top tier team consist of Fighter/Fighter/Red Mage/Red Mage, from what you say? Expensive as hell, yes, but CRAZY power for most of the game, healing and offensive magic for squads of weaklings, and good defense. Plus, doesn’t the Peninsula trick give you tons of money? I don’t really remember. And o the tiers change for FF Origins/Dawn of Souls? Just curious.

I’d say that’s the 3rd best party. IMO…

  1. Fi/Fi/Fi/RM
  2. Fi/Fi/Fi/Fi
  3. Fi/Fi/RM/RM
  4. Fi/Fi/RM/BB

One RM provides all the magic you’ll ever need in FF1. And actually, Fighters are really cheap and not expensive (pure mages are the most expensive characters to keep because magic keeps getting ridiculously pricier as the game goes on). Just remember 2 rules:

  1. Don’t EVER buy the Silver Sword (Elfland, 4000 G)
  2. Don’t EVER buy the Steel Armor (some town before you fight Lich, 35000 G)

These 2 items alone are why people say that Fighters are expensive to keep. If they just use the stuff found in treasure chests (Were Sword, Rune Sword, Ice Sword, Fire Sword, Coral Sword, etc.); and all the armor found in treasure chests (Iron Armor, Ice Armor, Fire Armor, Opal Armor, Dragon Armor, etc)… then they’d realize that pretty much ALL of the Fighter’s/Knight’s equipment is free.

As for Dawn of Souls; yeah, the tiers change A LOT. I’ve played a bit, but from what I heard, Thieves got a major major boost. They critical hit very often, and Ninjas at the end of the game critical hit so often that they are doing more damage than Knights or Monks. Red Mages became shit. The magic system in Dawn of Souls is the traditional MP-based one (instead of spell level charges in FF1); and INT is factored. Meaning Red Mages not only cast spells worse than pure mages, but pure mages in turn get to cast their spells more often due to MP usage rather than spell charges. Plus I heard there were tons of pure mage specific items that were really broken. Fighters got weakened, as a result of better items available for the other classes. Monks were still pretty much the same (crap defense, better offense the higher you level up).

My Favorite Tiers of my games

Halo (weapons)
God Tier- Rocket Launcher (if u can aim it correctly=its death.), Sniper Rifle
High Tier-Pistol (The deadly 3-shot kill), Shotgun
Mid Tier (in Order)- Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Assault Rifle
Low-Tier-Needler, everything else

Elemental Gearbolt-
God-Phoenix Blaze (killed everything but bosses in 1 hit.
High-Thunder Tiger
Mid/Low-Water Snake

X-Men (SNES)-
God-Beast (high damage potential, and invincibility frames in attacks), Wolverine (Dive attack has mad priority. Tornado Claw is very powerful in a combo)
High-Cyclops has so-so normal attacks. Optic Blast is the strongest special in the game. But has terrible startup.
Mid-Gambit (balanced) nothing special Kinetic cards are good against bosses. Enemis tend to overwhelm Gambit.
Low_ Psylocke has speed…thats it. too bad it aint MVC2.

Seiken Densetsu 3
God-Kevin (Werewolf form is teh truth.) Dark werewolf form beats u shitless.)
High-everyone else

DMC3
All u need is Beowulf, Rebellion, Royal Guard, Kalina Ann, and whatever else u feel.

Strike, in FF1 NES (and the FF1 part on PS1 FF Origins Normal difficulty), there are Agility and Intellegence modifiers. Even with that, though, I’ve realized that Red Mages are STILL better than White and Black Mages. The whole magic charges system is why. Oh, and isn’t the SIlver Sword more powerful than the Were, Rune, and Coral swords? Doesn’t matter, as those weapons suffice. I am now trying to play through as the “best” team (Fi/Fi/Fi/RM). Oh, and laugh at this pathetic FF6 tier list that I got on RPGclassics.com

  1. Locke
  2. Sabin
  3. Celes
  4. Terra
  5. Gogo/Umaro???
  6. Shadow
  7. Egdar
  8. Gogo/Umaro???
  9. Relm
  10. Setzer
  11. Strago
  12. Mog
  13. Gau
  14. Cyan

Sucks, right? Why is Sabin top in this list? Why is Gau low? Whoever did this list (some guy named Zeppelin from RPGClassics.com) is an idiot.

EDIT: Wait a sec. INT doesn’t do anything? That’s weird. Stat’s are like this…

Str: Increases as your Damage increases.
Agi: determines your Evade
Int: ???
Vit: Determines your HP
Luck: Run rate

Other stats are obviouis.

Yeah, INT does nothing (as far as I know) in NES FF1. So there’s no such thing as a Black Mage casting spells black magic “better” than a Red Mage; or the same thing about White Mages and white magic. What the pure mages do have over the Red Mage is more spell charges per level. But take the overall bigger picture that even with 1-2 more charges, it’s still not enough to be used liberally in the high number of random battles you’ll encounter. Therefore, most of the time, pure mages are just standing there in battle doing nothing (because they need to save their charge; essentially being dead weight). Or they force the party to run away from more than 50% of the battles you face to save their HP and spell charges for bosses.

So luck effects running? Then I guess the Thief would be the best runner, but not by much. I just remembered that agility did not affect running, and most people who don’t know how the game works will think that because the Thief has the most agility, he’s the best runner. Truthfully, I never really noticed any class being a better “runner” than another. But I guess if it’s luck based, then Thieves would win in that category (they still suck at everything else though).

The Silver Sword is stonger than those listed, but the difference is really unnoticable, and definitely not worth your effort marching around killing Ogres at 200G a pop in order to save that much for a sword that isn’t much stronger than the free findable ones, and will soon be replaced by Ice/Fire Sword and beyond. A Fighter with a Were Sword is still mauling everything in sight just as well as if he were equipped with a Silver Sword, only you didn’t waste time, effort, and money going with the former option.

Yeah, those FF6 tiers are just totally wrong. While I can agree on some level of Locke being placed high (I do admit to him being the only character in the game to reliably do 9999 x8; it’s just at that point it’s… okay, we’re done with this issue); there’s A LOT on that list that is fundamentally wrong. Which includes:

  • Umaro not being ranked last
  • Edgar getting middle tier rank; when Tools practically own the WoB and he’s capable of 128% MBlock
  • Sabin at #2; Blitzes are essentially spells (since they’re Magic Power based); and Sabin does not have a good MPower stat; Blitzes essentially only shine twice in the game (at the very beginning with Aura Bolt, and just when you get BumRush ASAP before you get all the other broken stuff in WoR)
  • Gau ranked second to last?! Rages are probably your biggest damage dealers in WoB; giving you essentially free level 2 and 3 spells before you even have access to anything remotely that close in spell power; need I mention Cat Scratch + Tempest/Wind God Gau; Nightshade’s Charm cheapness; Intangir near invincibility

You can’t possibly believe that Duran is as good as Hawk. Frankly, it’s even harder to tier this game because some classes are much better than others for individual characters and parties. I will agree that Kevin owns though.

That’s not why that person ranked Locke as #1. I just don’t really understand why Locke is ranked #1. Oh, and the guy doesn’t know that Sabin’s blitzes are magical (as by saying that you should raise his Vigor, which is extremely off and wrong), and that Edgar is really good in that he can equip the best stuff along with Terra and Celes. He also does not know about Fixed Dice+Offering+Dice+Genji Glove (I hope I got that right), and ranks Setzer low because his slots supposedly “suck.” Fool.

What would the tiers of FF1 Dawn of Souls be. Something like this:

Top: Thief/Ninja
Upper: Fighter/Knight, Black Mage/Black Wizard
Mid: White Mage/White Wizard, Black Belt/Master
Low: Red Mage/Red Wizard

I hope this is it. What could be the #1 team. Would it actually be the traditional Fi/Th/WM/BM or something else?

To be fair, hardly anyone actually found a Spread Needle, at least in the DC version of PSO v.1. I agree it was beyond broken though if you throw all the weapons into the mix.

If playing a “legit” game, a good mech gun was the best weapon in the game for Hunters, they had high enough ATA (or whatever the accucary category was called) so they don’t miss that much and that high ATP (attack power) puts everyone to shame. Rapes any boss in seconds even on high levels if using one of the better mech guns + enemy bonuses (i.e. Dark 55%), there was a type that drains your health for more damage. IIRC it was easy to find in the shop. The human type hunters could just spam the special to do sick damage and use Resta to heal back their life (or just sit back and have the Force(s) type characters in your party heal you as you repeadedly use the special).

Thought it’d be interesting to compare the changes for Halo 2 with some tiers:

GOD tier:
energy sword
fuel rod cannon
rocket launcher
high to mid:
sniper rifle
particle beam rifle
shotgun
battle rifle
brute plasma rifle
covenant carbine
needler
plasma rifle
mid to low:
plasma pistol
SMG
low tier:
sentinel beam
brute shot ( before the update, it was shitty…haven’t heard about after )
magnum

IMO, best weapon combo for dual-wielding: drop their shields with about three plasma shots w/ plasma rifle ( or a charged plasma pistol shot ) and use an SMG burst in chest to head area to kill them ( or switch to shotgun and own them Ash-style :tup: ).

Final Fantasy Tactics Tiers (all generic Classes)

These tiers are based off of my experience playing versus with my friends using pro-action replay and the debug code. No rare equips or power leveling. Jobs are ranked based off of their individual merits. Obviously Calculator sucks without having spells to pool so basically I’m rating each job based on their abilities being used to their full potential. Also basing this off af characters who do not have uber high Brave or faith.

God Tier
Calculator: Math Skill is easily abusable especially if you use the infinite turns trick with the quick spell. Even without it they own everything.

Top Tier:
Summoner: Huge damage that can not hurt your own team.
Ninja: Huge range and speed that is only defeated by Golem.
Mediator: The onoly way to resist their attacks is with finger guard, and you have to give up your passive skill for it. Otherwise, there is no way to resist it.
Dancer: Nameless Dance is only defeated by Ribbon. Without a ribbon you are finished.

High Tier
Monk: Versitile and unblockable. They lack in power though
Samurai: Huge damage an buff potential
Bard: Great buffer and really good when given a skill that complements them like draw out.

High-Mid Tier
Knight: Great defense and attack but must rely on other classes to be really good.

Mid Tier
Black Mage: Good damage, but not as good as Summoner
Time Mage: Good overall but not as good as other buff classes
Chemist: Items are good and so are guns. They lack anything to put them over the top.
Lancer: Jump is too unreliable, attacking from two spaces away is good.
Oracle: Spell chances are too low.
Geomancer: Doesn’t do enough damage and status chances are too low.

Mid-Low Tier
Thief: Steal heart is good.
Archer: Outclassed by guns and magic. Charge Sucks.
Mime: Good for the infinite turns trick. That’s it.
White Mage: White Magic is less reliable than items or calculating.

Low Tier:
Squire: Nothing to help in combat. Accumulate is their only saving grace.

I couldnt even read all of the FF6 discussion, but if allowed to use glitch CYAN is pretty much Alpha and Omega tier, Terra Celes Edgar Locke is the pretty standard big 4 tt after that, because they can be in a party together and all have 128 Mblock(or maybe one only has 123 or so, I forget) Which makes you invincible. Plus steal is HUGE in LLGs for econos and such. The difficult thing about tiering FF6 is everyone pretty much evens out with decent high levels and good equips, thats why usually LLG is a better way to judge.

EDIT: I think I still have the old Tier thread saved if someone wants it. That thread was classic:)

I almost flamed you for putting spider there, but then I saw drache and prometheus at the top of your list. sorry, but you don’t know shit about MW

Depends on how you play it (ie what lvl you promote) but

top = Master Monk Karna by far

right after = Peter, Tyrin

Clockw***0***rk

for FFVI…even though a lot of the talk was way back, i just thought i’d go through the tier list myself…

(in order KIND OF, not sure about numbers 4-7 since they’re really close)

top tier

1 - terra: best equips, female equips, 2nd highest magic, MORPH, reaches 128 m block pretty easily
2 - celes: best equips, female equips, good magic, doesn’t have to waste a relic slot for white cape (like terra does) since she starts off with 9%
3 - edgar: best equips, tools are good for a big part of the wob
4 - gau: rages > wob and a lot of wor, good speed, high starting m block, wind god gau
5 - mog: maxes out defense EASILY, owns the illumina guy for free, jump, dances > wob
6 - shadow: good speed, throw is really good (and cheap, money wise) damage, interceptor
7 - relm: highest mother fucking magic (with a base of over 40, and +6 from what terra is), and 128 mblock easily, female equips

mid tier

8 - strago: lores are good for no magic games…
9 - locke: speed isn’t that great…steal is good for LLGs, and being able to equips swords is alright, but that’s about it. can’t really do decent damage through out the whole game
10 - gogo: he’d be a lot better if it weren’t for his shitty equips and not being able to raise stats
11 - setzer: slots are really random. dice are really random. he’s a good tank though (imp status, imp armor + fixed dice + offering)

low tier -

12 - sabin: he’s a mage. his best damage is magic powered, and his magic is shitty. and he got shitty equips.
13 - cyan: swordtechs take too long, shitty equips

umaro tier -
14 - umaro

If you don’t mind could send it to me, through PM or email, somehow? It was one of my favorite srk threads.

solid chrono, you forgot uber squire (which would proly be high mid)

and i think ninja is top…speed growth is fucking humongous

Yeah lemmee find that joint and Ill probably put it up tomorrow

Can’t even stand Halo other than about 5 weapons and no double equips. FPS are crap. They don’t have enough strategy or depth at all. Of course you also get unbalanced weapons.