Tiers for non-fighting games?

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
101

You can get to the WoR with characters at Level 6. I have. I don’t see what your point is about level 16 characters. All Locke has in a low-level game is that he is one of the characters who can equip with 128% Magic Block. Damage-wise, at that low level, he isn’t causing much, at least compared to the other 128% Magic Block characters (Terra, Celes, Edgar, Relm).

You talk about double-standards, but I haven’t really applied any, since I have neither tiered the game at extreme max-levels; at extreme low-levels; nor on a natural magic game. I don’t quite fully understand your comparsion because you’ve seem to have done all three. I’m assuming you’re judging a high level Locke to:

  1. A level 20 Terra casting Ultima not hitting 9999 (actually, a Morphed level 20 Terra properly equipped WILL hit 9999)
  2. A natural magic game Terra getting Ultima at level 80

You’re analogies don’t exactly make sense because I don’t equate the Illumina to being a machine gun, while everything else in the game are empty fists. I further don’t equate Locke to being Cable, making everyone else a scrub character like Ryu (or 5 times worse).

So what standard exactly are you applying to the game when you tier? I’ve stated mine; just a regular playthrough of the game, learning magic through Espers, not ever taking time out to gain levels, not abusing Vanish/Doom. I also take into account the WoB, not just how a character can operate in the final portions of the game, since that would be ignoring more than half of the game itself. I’d figure that wouldd be the most fair and sensible way of tier the game because:

  1. Most people don’t play the game with restrictions (low-level; natural magic, so a tier based on them would be rather narrow viewed)
  2. Tiering the game when everyone is at max level and max-Esper altered stats is pretty pointless because everyone at that point is just overkilling enemies

I figure a good endgame level playing the game that way would probably be around level 40s or so.

As such, let’s just compare everyone at Level 40. That way, none of them are too low-leveled; none of them are obscenely overleveled where the game doesn’t matter anymore. Would you agree this is a fair level to compare everyone to?

What does a level 40 Locke have that trumps him over everyone else?

The Illumina? Okay, it’s the best weapon in the game. Locke has good vigor, so he should be fighting with it. And it gives him stat boosts, ignores defense, and allows him to attack in the back row. So how much damage exactly will a Level 40 Locke do with Illumina equipped?

Locke’s Equipment:
Illumina (+7 Vigor, Speed, Staminia, Magic Power; 50% MBlock)
Aegis Shield (40% MBlock)
Bard’s Hat (10% MBlock)
Force Armor (30% MBlock)
Relics: Hero Ring; Offering

Locke’s Stats:
Vigor: 37 (44)
Speed: 40 (47)
Stamina: 31 (38)
Magic Power: 28 (35)
Battle Power: 14 (255; maxed due to Illumina)
MBlock: 2% (132%)

With this setup, Locke has over 128% MBlock, making him virtually untouchable by anything other than unblockable attacks. I’m assuming that you’re stressing the importance of 128% MBlock because you’re touting the Force Armor, which is basically only good because of the MBlock it gives. For this reason, I did not set Locke up with the Genji Glove (not that a level 40 Locke even with Genji Glove/Offering combined can do anything even close to the damage a Level 40 Setzer can with Offering/Fixed Dice alone).

Vigor*2 = 88
Battle Power = 255
Attack = 88 + 255 = 343
Offering Penalty = (-1/2 Damage)
Hero Ring Bonus = (+5/4 Damage)
Illumina Critical hit multiplier = null (because of Offering)

Damage = Battle Power + [(Level * Level * Attack) / 256] * (3/2)

Raw Damage = 255 + [(40 * 40 * 343) / 256] * (3/2) = 3598
Damage (Offering Penalty; Hero Ring Bonus) 3598 * (1/2) * (5/4) = 2249

A Level 40 Locke with Offering with that setup above will hit for around 2249 x4 = 8996 total damage.

Now let’s compare him to another Illumina holder, a Level 40 Celes, who most here considered the least useful of the so-called “Big 4”:

Celes’ Equipment:
Illumina (+7 Vigor, Speed, Staminia, Magic Power; 50% MBlock; 255 Battle Power)
Force Shield (+50% MBlock)
Mystery Veil (+1 Speed; +3 Magic Power; +10 MBlock)
Minerva (+1 Vigor; +2 Speed; +1 Stamina; +4 Magic Power; 10% MBlock; +25% Max MP)
Relics: Gem Box; Hero Ring

Celes’ Stats:
Vigor: 34 (42)
Speed: 34 (44)
Stamina: 31 (39)
Magic Power: 36 (50)
Battle Power: 16 (255; maxed due to Illumina)
MBlock: 9% (129%)

With this setup, Celes also has over 128% MBlock like Locke, meaning she’s basically untouchable. The key differences are, she gets a +25% max MP boost thanks to Minerva, and her Magic Power is boosted way high thanks to the rest of her equips.

Ultima Spell Power: 150
Hero Ring Bonus: (+5/4 Damage)

Damage = Spell Power * 4 + [(Level * Magic Power * Spell Power) / 32)]

Raw Damage = 150 * 4 + [(40 * 50 * 150) / 32] = 9975
Hero Ring Bonus = 9975 * (5/4) = 12469 = 9999

A Level 40 Celes with Gem Box equipped will be hitting for 9999 x2 damage casting Ultima twice. If you wanted to get really cheap; replace the Hero Ring with the Economizer, and she’ll still hit for around 9975 x2 for only 2 MP.

Even physically attacking with the Illumina; Celes won’t be far off of Locke’s damage.

Vigor*2 = 84
Battle Power = 255
Attack = 84 + 255 = 339
Hero Ring Bonus = (+5/4 Damage)
Illumina Critical Hit multiplier = 2

Damage = Battle Power + [(Level * Level * Attack) / 256] * (3/2)

Raw Damage = 255 + [(40 * 40 * 339) / 256] * (3/2) = 3433

Hero Ring Bonus = 3433 * (5/4) = 4291

Critical Hit multiplier = 4291 * 2 = 8582

So a Level 40 Celes hits for around 400 points less than a Level 40 Locke with thier opitimal setups; only Celes has a much more damage magic power attack in Ultima x2 that Locke doesn’t; plus has better MP thanks to Minerva’s +25% Max MP.

If you want, I can compare a level 40 Relm:

Relm’s Equipment:
Magus Rod (Magic Power +7; 30% MBlock)
Force Shield (+50% MBlock)
Cat Hood (Magic Power +4; 10% MBlock)
Tao Robe (10% MBlock)
Relics: Gem Box; White Cape

Relm’s Stats:
Vigor: 26
Speed: 34
Stamina: 22
Magic Power: 44 (55)
MBlock: 9% (119%)

Relm doesn’t quite reach 128% MBlock with this setup (she could if you replace the Gem Box with another White Cape); but this setup is clearly more advantageous to her damage dealing and 119% MBlock will be blocking nearly anything that comes her way anyway.

Ultima Spell Power: 150

Damage = Spell Power * 4 + [(Level * Magic Power * Spell Power) / 32)]

Raw Damage = 150 * 4 + [(40 * 55 * 150) / 32] = 10913 = 9999

A Level 40 Relm with Gem Box equipped casting Ultima twice will hit for 9999 x2 damage. If you want to sacrifice 10% MBlock safety, you could replace the White Cape with an Econimizer and she would be able to do the combo for 2 MP.

The facts are simple: Locke is only “top tier” if you over level everyone to level 99; and even then, “top tier” just means that he provides the most overkill at 9999 x8. His equipment is nothing that special. Out of his armors, 7/14 people can equip his Genji Armor; 6/14 people can equip with his Force Armor; and the rest who couldn’t use either have their own respectable armor selections. Locke can use the Illumina, but the other 3 who can also equip it, do a much better job in other areas, and didn’t lag behind in the WoB like Locke did. And finally, his speed is extremely overrated due to how the ATB system actually functions; meaning at best, Locke will get to strike first (only practical purpose this would have is in a Brachosaur fight or if you wanted to run away), but he will not be getting extra turns because of his “great speed.”

Locke is not trash, but he’s not top tier either. Unless you like to power level and break the game, there are definitely other more viable and useful characters than him.

102

You should look at characters when they are fully powered up. Why? Because it shows what they can potentially do. That’s what it’s all about. A characters potential.

103

It’s situational how you should look at characters for each game. In a game like FF6, if you tier them when they are all level 99 god-characters, all you’re tiering is who provides the most overkill. At that point, a tier like that wouldn’t give any practical analysis on the character himself/herself.

But no one’s stopping you from doing it that way if you wanted to. I just think it’s rather pointless to determine who can do 9999 x8 versus who can do 9999 x4; or decide who has the best defense when all attacks are being blocked or do 1 damage.

104

my $0.02:

if you are gonna tier it by usefulness throughout the game, then edgar comes out on top with gau not far behind. sabin should be up there since hes superior than most characters throughout the game. seriously, whats keeping sabin down besides the fact he cant equip some of the best equipments. but by the time you got everyones best equips, you are on your way of being godlike. terra and celes are like clones but they have above average stats and has good equips.

mog is nothing really spectacular in the first half of the game but shines in the 2nd half due to moogle charm. relm is good from the start since her magic and speed is extremely high. locke sucks for majority of the game (shitty magic, shitty attack power) but since he can steal another pair of genji gloves, he still have some use. setzer is semi-useful. he doesnt really shine until you get his fixed dice and his slots are decent despite the fact that sometimes its rigged and can cost you your game.

shadow isnt too useful since hes on and off your team and you wont get him till the very end. same with gogo but even worse since s/he wont have any esper bonuses (even if you arent trying to make your characters like demi-gods, the bonuses does add up over time).

so imo

top: edgar, gau, sabin, terra, celes
2nd: relm, mog
3rd: setzer, shadow, locke,
bottom: cyan, gogo, strago, umaru

105

tier espers man =D

106

Shining in the Darkness
Top tier: Forbidden box and making DarkSoul Dance.
Mid tier: Blaze 4,Black bone and The Orb of truth
Low Tier: Milo… the guy was just a pussy.

Shining Force 3 sen1
Top Tier: Dentaris (Prepare to Die)Nuff said best crits in the game.
Mid Tier: Symbios he was too strong
Low Tier: The Ending

FoTNS
Top Tier: Roah had a really nice style for being a bad guy, Ken-Fucking-Shiro this guy would use a move just for the fuck of it. (yeah we cant forget SHHHHAAWAAAAAA you know him Rei) :smiley:
Mid Tier: Shin this guy got the most shitty end of the stick in the story.
Low Tier: Lieing little Bitch Jagi god damn cock sucker.

Wu-Tang Shaolin Style
Top Tier: ODB nuff said…RZA and Method man
Mid Tier: Ghost Face Killah
Low Tier:Masta Killah

Kemco Puzzle point n click games.
Top Tier: Deja Vu
Mid Tier: Shadow Gate
Low Tier: Uninvited

107

If you’re going to tier by usefulness, you need to bump Locke up again, considering you need him to get: best sword (unless you consider Atma to be superior to Illumina), best shield and best spell (except Terra who gets Ultima naturally).

108

It’s true that Ultima is a good spell but that doesn’t mean that it’s better than an Atma + Illumina combo. There is no way that

9999x2 > 9999x4 or 9999x8

Celes is a good character I haven’t that she sucks, or Terra for that matter but Locke is still a member of the top tier, or the better characters. He’s better than Relm or Anyone else below him on that list.

Technically everyone can get Ultima. Ok, but so can Locke, yes Relm has more magic attack than Locke, but so what. Equipping Illumina makes a character that much better. And if you still don’t think that Locke is all that great:

He gets the best items in the game, not only for himself but for other characters. You need Locke to get Ultima.

Locke can steal Megalixirs and other good items for creatures.

Even if you have 99 Megalixirs that’s overkill alright.

It’s true that other characters can 128% Mblock, but that doesn’t change the fact that Locke is better.

Locke with Atma or Illumina and Offering. Compared to Relm with Gembox and Economizer or what not. Locke is still the better character.

It’s good to have high Mblock, but if you have that high of an Mblock don’t you think it’s overkill? Basically it comes down to this:

Locke
Celes
Terra
Edgar
Shadow
Gau

mostly all can do the Genji Combo. Shadow is included because he has interceptor, throw ignores defenses, he already has high magic power, and high Mblock.

Even at level 40, if you raise the Vigor on a character he or she will still do considerable amounts of damage with the Offering or Genji combo. Simply by Equipping Bismarck when you get him gives a Vigor +2 bonus in the WoB. Meaning that the characters can still achieve damage levels equal to or more than Ultima. The thing is that they won’t have to waste to relic spots which are always needs for the Gembox and Economizer combo.

Economizer by itself reduces everything to one Mp. While Gembox casts two spells at once. Offering takes up 1 relic slot permitting a character to do whatever the fuck they want.

Dude, just let it go. Locke is top tier. Best items. Good speed in the beggining which let’s him attack quick. But doesn’t help in the end to the long attacks.

And if you didn’t read my post, I validated the pros and cons of speed. So read my goddamn post this time. I’m not gonna reply to FF6 tiers anymore after this, it’s like teaching a Christian about Zoroastrianism, or Asclepius, Osiris and comparing them to Jesus.

109

Double Dragon II:
Top Tier: Knee attak
High Mid: Uppercut, hurricane kick
Mid: Back kick
Low: punches, jump kick

River City Ransom:
God Tier: Chain (the only weapon you should really use)

110

All man I can’t believe I haven’t seen this thread sooner but I guess that serves me right for not looking at the Other Games board at a while. Before the forum crash there was a similar thread to this on the FG board with wide variety of games being tiered, it very interesting to srk peeps breaking down/sharing knowledge of non-fighting games.

This seems like a joke but if not I gotta know the reasons behind that list, actually mostly why would Roo be above Skate.

IMO…(I haven’t played SOR3 in ages though…)
God tier: Super Axel/Super Skate
Top tier: Shiva/Blaze/Skate
Rest/don’t matter enough to divide further: Axel/Zan/Roo

  • Normal Axel was already a decent character but the crazy new special of the Super version owns the game by itself. Super Skate is the same way, he had one of the game’s better Blitz attacks that you repeatedly spam on crowds of people even on U.S. Hard, giving him an overpowered normal combo is too much.

  • Shiva couldn’t pick up weapons IIRC but had a powerful infinite. Blaze, like Skate, had one of the game’s better Blitz attacks. Beside drop kicks, Blitz attacks own this game.

  • Axel/Zan/Roo isn’t really bad (well maybe Roo), I can still beat the game easily with them but I would just put a little bit more effort than special spamming with Super Axel or Blitz spamming with Blaze or (Super)Skate.

About RE4, I don’t think levels matter. The character that can easily handle any level and break high 6 digits is the overall better character IMO. For that I think Wesker and Krauser are top, Ada is middle is middle and HUNK/Leon struggles for whatever is left.

Don’t know what suggestions to list that hasn’t be listed already so I’ll just throw some random ninja action games of this gen.

Shinobi
Top: Joe/Hotsuma
Bottom: Moritsune

  • Joe can rip the game away old school style just by shuriken spamming and while his sword doesn’t have as much power of Hotsuma or Moritsune you don’t have to worry about health drain. Hotsuma doesn’t hit hard as Moritsune but his power is enough, especially with the Charge Attack.

  • Moritsune is the strongest character in the game but his health drain is much worse on the trade off. On Super Mode, if a Tate doesn’t go your way perfectly you’ll be hurting looking for health. This is usually the case when fighting Super mode Hiruko. The health drain/power advantage is much more balance with Hotsuma.

Nightshade
Top: Hotsuma
Middle: Joe
Bottom: Hisui then Hibana below her.

  • Hotsuma’s sword bypasses the “have to kick enemies armor off to damage them” rule so that’s makes levels MUCH easier to go through and his sword gets crazy power boosts through Tates. Combined with the Charge Attack he makes short work of bosses. He’s the only character who can beat the last boss in about 25 seconds. The health drain isn’t even a problem with all the ownage he serves up.

  • Joe can still spam shurikens, which now have tracking abilities in this game, and his shuriken burst breaks armor. His only downfall is that he gets served up bad by Stage 12 boss.

  • The girls don’t suck but since Hotsuma and Joe can bypass the annoying kicking armor off enemies rule they don’t have to worry about unnesscary counter-attacks when trying to air Tate. Their Shadow Attack makes it easier to Tate bosses than the guys but that’s about it and not enough to put them over IMO. Also Hisui is better than Hibana simply because she is the exact same as her except Hisui runs faster and has more range on her attacks.

111

I think you meant: 9999 x2 < 9999 x4 < 9999 x8.

Duh?

The whole point I was trying to make is: when you’re tiering all the characters at the point where each one has become a god-character; what’s the point? Have you ever thought about it that way? Is a tier about what character can provide the most overkill really that useful when the game has become a complete joke? I get what everyone is saying about potential. Maybe you guys just take the fighting game tier ideology that since fighting game characters are tiered at a theorhetical “full potential,” RPG characters should be as well. I don’t think it quite translates that easily. Apparently you guys do.

All you keep saying is: Locke is a member of the top tier, with absolutely nothing to back it up other than your resolve. At least I’ve shown how Locke is not the god character you guys keep proclaiming him to be with actual numbers, damage forumulas, and stats. But I guess it’s not enough for you.

The “so what” is that Relm is causing much more damage with Ultima than Locke ever will with anything else if you played the game WITHOUT over-leveling to the point where nothing matters. Equipping the Illumina when you’re not a god-character doesn’t automatically make you good. Perhaps you’re too spoiled by immediately powering your characters to ridiculous heights that you’ve forgotten what it’s like to actually play the game without first turning every battle into a joke.

If you want to take into consideration that Locke is a “requirement” in order to get the best equipment in the game, you can. I’d rather tier a character based on their ability in battle, rather than tier them based on what they can provide outside of battle. For instance, I didn’t take into consideration Mog’s Moogle Charm. To me, character tier lists are reflective of battle performance.

When do you ever need Mega Elixers when Cure 3 does the job just fine? So Locke can steal a recovery item that is rarely (if ever) needed. Not that great of a point. And what exactly are these “other good items” that you spoke of? The only noteworthy thing I can think of that Locke can steal in the WoB are Gaia Gears and Genji Gloves. Genji Gloves being a rare steal from a rare enemy on the Floating Continent (when the WoB is practically over); and Genji Gloves being only really useful for Locke which you should’ve already have one already. In the WoR, the only noteworthy thing Locke can steal are Economizers, which he himself can’t make as good a use for compared to the other dedicated magic users with much better Magic Power stats.

One Megalixer is overkill. 99 is just silly. So if you admit to them being overkill, why bring it up as a valid point?

WTF? That doesn’t make any sense. It’s basically, you just repeating that Locke is better because you said so. If other characters can reach 128% MBlock, which itself is the whole point of Locke’s so-called “excellent equipment,” then that means that Locke’s equipment isn’t all that special in the first place.

Atma Weapon + Illumina combo is only better than Ultima when you’ve whored EXP and raised your characters levels to the point where the game and the battles that take place have become nothing more than a nuisance. Besides, Atma Weapon + Illumina isn’t even that great of a combination in general. In order for Atma Weapon to be obscenely powerful, you’d again have to be at an higher level than necessary. If you’re at level 99, most any weapon is already hitting for 9999 damage. Genji Gloved, Atma + Illumina is still only going to hit for 9999 x2. Illumina itself is actually a horrible weapon to pair up with the Offering, because it loses its MP Critical Hit multiplier. Either way, the point is that in order for Atma Weapon + Illumina to be better than Ultima, you’d have to have gotten to a point where the game doesn’t matter anymore. If you wish to tier a joke game at a point when pretty much all the characters are clones of one another, then you can. It’s just to me, a tier like that is pointless. How one character can crush all enemies with 9999 x8, when another character can easily crush the same enemies with 9999 x4; there really isn’t any practical difference between the two.

128% MBlock ensures you are able to block every single blockable attack that is thrown your way. And if you took time to read my setups, I did not overkill MBlock, as I made sure with the equipment that it reached the 128% with the fewest points being left over (as in Celes’ 129% case). No, I don’t think high MBlock is overkill; in fact it’s the opposite. High MBlock will likely save your life more than being able to do 79992 damage overkill on a 5000 HP enemy.

If you think high MBlock is overkill, and thus not an important stat, then that just makes Locke that much worse, as one of the few things I give him credit for is his ability to reach the 128% MBlock mark while other characters can’t. If you’re satisfied with just even 100% MBlock; then other characters like Setzer, Shadow, and Mog truly start dominating Locke. Again, the only way Locke “beats these guys” is at god-level; a point where tiering the game becomes a joke itself.

Genji combo is not good if you’re not a godcharacter. And ALL god-characters (which seems to be your standard) can Genji combo for 9999 x2 anyway, so what’s your point?

Which is why it’s kind of stupid to consider Esper bonuses because you can alter the stats of any characters to be practically anything you want. Basically making clones of each other stat-wise; which is precisely the reason why I didn’t take Esper stat altering into consideration.

Hell, why don’t we include the Merit Award into dicussion? With it, anyone can equip the Illumina. Raise a level 6 Relm with 30 levels of Odin, 30 more levels of Bismarck, give her the Merit Award and Illumina, and guess what? You have another character with obscene speed, can hit for 9999 damage, and can use the Illumina? Why do you consider taking Esper stat bonuses into consideration, which changes characters to basically anything you want; but neglect Merit Award setups? You’re applying a double-standard.

Why don’t you let it go? Locke is top tier because you said so? Locke’s speed makes him attack first, but he’s not doing anything noteworthy in that first strike that another character can’t do better. The only “good item” he has over anyone else is the Illumina, which the other 3 wielders do a better job at it and excel in other areas, and didn’t completey suck in the WoB. Why don’t you read my “goddamn” posts about how speed actually works, rather than relying on your rather misguided notion that Locke’s 37-44 speed stat is going to start making him have more turns than other characters, or make him start doing double damage, or any other completely false assumption. You didn’t validate any of your posts other than mostly saying something along the lines of, ‘Locke is top tier because I said so; just accept it.’

Again, Locke is only “top tier” in the fact that if you overlevel everyone to 99, to a point where the game doesn’t matter anymore, Locke provides the most overkill. His high speed does not mean he’ll be attacking more times in battle. Out of his equipment, the only thing noteworthy he has are the Illumina and Valiant Knife; the former being better suited for one of the other 3 users, and the latter only good when Locke is either practically dead or walking god-character. I guess people just don’t like being proven wrong.

112

Drop the fucking subject already, Gogo > all.

Us normal folk play the game to have fun, besides who wants to level or cheat everyone to 99 anyhow 65 is high enough.

Genji Glove is pointless in the WoR anyway, its like Sprint Shoes or Float ring.

113

Read it again. The statement said this.

Duh?

I believe characters should be ranked on their full potential. Level 99 is within the limits of the game. If Squaresoft didn’t want players to attain that high of a level, they would have implemented a limit.

I guess it depends on whether or not you want to set a limit for yourself. You could level yourself completely to level 99 and explore the full potentials and possibilities of each character that Squaresoft designed. Or you could limit yourself to under level 50 because of Strike’s subjective viewpoint that anything higher is not fair for the CPU.

114

The point is the same in that you guys are trying to justify your tiers as who can provide the most overkill at a point where that much damage is completely unnecessary.

And how is my viewpoint any more or less subjective than your insistance on comparing characters at level 99? Sure, you can level yourself completely to the point where nothing will stand in your way. It’s like tiering which weapon: Nuclear Bomb; Tank; Machine Gun; or Bomber Jet is best for killing ants. You’re characters are so far beyond powerful that tiering them at that point is a joke itself.

I didn’t mention anything about fairness to the CPU. I don’t understand why you guys think the concept of tiering the game when there is still challege left in it and when all the characters haven’t become clones of one another is such a foreign and strange concept.

115

Because by doing so, you are tiering the characters at a limit that you yourself are imposing on the characters. You aren’t taking into account the full-potential of these characters. Who defines what limit should be placed on characters? You… or Squaresoft?

116

Can’t you two just have two different tierings?

One at level 99, and one at level 40.

117

Sure. Except I think the Locke-supporters have a misguided belief that he’s still somehow superior even at lower levels.

118

This will be my last argument for Locke vs Relm, but Relm is not all that more powerful a mage than Locke is. If you consider the following setups (optimized for MBlock):

Relm:
Magus Rod
Tao Robe
Cat Hood
Force Shield
Gem Box
White Cape

Relm will do 19998 damage at level 40 with Ultima (9999 x 2)

Locke:
Illumina
Force Armor
Circlet
Force Shield
Gem Box
Hero Ring or Earrings

Locke will do 19782 damage at level 40 with Ultima (9891 x 2)

Locke will have the full 128% magic block, while Relm will be around 120, plus Locke still has his speed advantage. Factor in Locke’s better skill (steal/capture) and versatility, and I can’t see how Relm is better than he is.

119

I can’t believe I’m going to come out of lurking to post about old school Pokemon.

Mewtwo is God yes, but after that, the only Pokemon I’d think of using out of the ones you listed is Gyarados (and even that is shaky, considering Thunderbolt is usually on many Pokemon). Aerodactyl, Snorlax, Dragonite (beware Ice Beam), Chansey, Starmie, and Slowbro are all better than those, off the top of my head.

120

Mainly because prior to level 40; Relm is already capable of hitting the damage threashold of 9999 much earlier than Locke can.

Optimized for damage:

Magus Rod
Force Shield
Cat Hood
Behemoth Suit
Gem Box
Earring

Relm will do 19998 damage at level 26; a good 14 levels before you reach endgame (assuming a level 40 endgame level). Relm is thus capable of destroying more powerful enemies earlier on, at levels where your party is still capable of being wiped out.

That Illumina/Force Armor/Force Shield combo is a good one; no doubt; but having to use all 3 on one character is a bit of a waste on all 3 items, which could’ve been spread a bit more throughout the party. Again, Locke’s “speed advantage” isn’t much of one when speed doesn’t count for much in this game due to ATB. Locke will get his turn first, but unless he’s at a high level, what is he doing that’s so damaging or so crucial in that first turn that someone else couldn’t do one turn later?