81

Star Wars KOTOR 2 Classes

S rank:

Jedi Consular/Sith Lord

A Rank:

Jedi Guardian/Jedi Weaponmaster
Jedi Guardian/Sith Marauder

B, C, D rank:

Every other combination

Jade Empire styles:

S Rank:

Jade Golem
Mirabelle

A Rank:

Spirit Thief
Hidden Fist
Paralyzing Palm

B Rank:

Tempest
Stone Immortal

C Rank:

Heavenly Wave
Dragon Storm
Dire Flame
Ice Shard

? Rank:

Everything else other than martial styles in that you need them.

Fable:

Enflame and Physical Shield are the god magics. Don’t know about anything else.

Halo 2:

Sword and RL are top. Needlers suck.

Can’t think of any more.

82

just go to the slot command, keep pausing and unpausing the game until the desired slot to show up at the top row, then unpause the game, and press X. your desired slot will land on the bottom row. repeat on the other two columns. congrats, you just broke the game.

i dont like berserker that much since they get raped by magic attacks and they dont have any magical attacks. samurai is sorta good since it has better stats, damage and speed than warrior but overall, not that great in the end.

83

FInal Fantasy Tactics: ONly tier worth mentiuoning Math Skill / Ninja everything else is bunk and should be avoided. FFT was possibly the worst SRPG I ever played because of this.

Actually in Fable the Gob Spell would be Multi Arrow. With Max Skill Skorm’s Bow and a max level Multi Shot AT MOST you have to fire 1 shot at any normal enemy except that rock elemental, they take 1 full and then any other multishot(even weak ass power) hell even the Final Boss can only take 3 or 4 Shots from it. Plus you can easily have Skorm’s bow by 2 1/2 hours in. by 3 you have racked up quite enough experiece on infinately spawning gaurds and now can own the game for free.

Jade Empire: Of course we have to divide things up but really I am lazy and there is only 1 class worth mentioning in each category

Martial Arts: Tiger Strike is the best. PERIOD it has the second best speed slightly above average Damage and the best unblockable martial arts attack

Weapons: Dual swords / Mirabelle. The Dual swords are fast, allthough their single attack damage is lower one full combo from them does the second most(second only to dual axes which are horribly slow) the best speed and second best damage. . . its a no brainer. Mirabelle can drop things in one fairly fast explosive attack. its not that great all the time but there are certain large things its great for(Jade golems)

Transforming: Jade Golem: The end. its literally better in every single way imaginable then the other transformations.

Support.
High: Dragon Storm Spirit theif
Good enough: The stupid one you start with!
Worthless and outclassed: Everything else.

Dragon storm constantly saps HP and stuns, a quick Flciker into focus mode for a hit in, and adept style changing and harmonic combos and anything is going down.

Spirit theif steals Chi HOT DAMN its kinda clunky but it STEALS CHI its free healing, free spells, free everything.

Magics: Are mostly useless so dont bother. However if you really gotta know Tempest is the best while Fire is the worst

Pokemon
god: mewtwo
top: Articuno Alakazzam
High: Garados Charizard Jolteon
everything else: Not Worth mentioning

FF8 junctions
God: Ultima
top: Triple Life Curagga
usefull: Reflect Double Haste

Oh and Star ocean two lets clear some thing up

broke ass godly: Chisato and Bowman. For two simple reasons Tear Gas and Explosion Pills. SPAM away
Top: Rena, the ONLY healer in the game. Ashtom; best normal attack in the game abuse the double demon swords berzerk and slayer/meteor rings
Not worth your time: Everyone else
Why he in this game? Ernestl hes hard to get(near impossible if your not Trying like a madman) his attacks are garbage his weapons are worse and he denies you that last slot for Chisato. . . what a dueche

MGS3
The Joy >>> All

Life
Me > you > noobs > Somethign awful

84

A lot of this is very off. You clearly haven’t played this game too in depth. First of all, let me give you some better rankings of the primary abilities.

God Tier:
Math Skill (You got this right.)

Top Tier:
Summon, Time Magic, Draw Out

Mid-Tier:
Punch Art, Yin-Yang Magic, White Magic, Item, Steal, Jump

Low-Tier:
Black Magic, Talk Skill, Dance, Sing, Geomancy, Throw

Bottom-Tier:
Basic Skill, Charge, Battle Skill

Explanations:

Math Skill = Completely broken.

Summon = I can’t believe you didn’t put this tops. Huge AOE spells, huge AOE healing, Lich, and Golem. What more do you need? Oh, and with the exception of Lich, the spells NEVER miss, meaning they’re completely reliable. And forget that AT preparation shit. If you’re a good player, you won’t have any problems with AT.

Time Magic = Ok, first of all, you have Haste, which is very useful because you can Haste multiple allies in one casting. Now, you have Demi, which is a boss killer. Gravity spells destroy bosses in this game. Oh, and there’s also Meteor, the most powerful regular spell in the game. It’s slow, but it’s cool, because Time Mages also come with Short Charge, so no big deal there. And really, that’s all you’ll need because Short Charge/Meteor/Demi beats the game for you on its own.

Draw Out = Again, very versatile and very strong. It doesn’t even matter that the swords break as long as you keep a good stock. You had this one right.

Punch Art = Beginners always tend to think this is one of the best movesets in the game. It is very good, but it’s not THAT good. Why? Because first of all, the damage isn’t as high compared to the top movesets for damage, and it also isn’t as high as a few of the lower movesets. And what else is special about it? Oh yeah, healing and reviving. Unfortunately, they aren’t 100% chances, and they also have 0 vertical tolerance. This can be a big problem when you need it in the clutch. I would rather stick with the Summoner’s huge AOE, 100%, Faith boosted Moogle for a good heal.

Yin-Yang Magic = Heavily underrated. You’ve obviously never tried this moveset out to its fullest. First of all, you have Life-Drain, the best boss killer in the game. Then, you also have Pray Faith, which makes all magic users stronger. Oh, and then you can also disable the enemies in a billion different ways. Want to paralyze the enemy while you focus on another stronger one? Use Sleep. Want to finish one off quickly? Use Pray Faith/Petrify. This set is versatile. Oh, and did I mention Life Drain? It makes all bosses in the game a joke.

White Magic = Healing and Holy. The only reason its not higher is because the healing CAN miss. But for offense, Holy is all you’ll need.

Item = The best healing in the game. Bottom-line. If this were a rating of classes instead of just the abilities, then Chemists would be god-tier because of Auto Potion.

Steal = Forget about the useless shit you can steal. Steal Heart is ALL that matters. Charm is unbelievably powerful. Unbelievably powerful.

Jump = It’s pretty obvious why this thing is so good.

Black Magic = First of all, this is the worst magic set by far. All of its spells can miss due to magic evasion, including its big spell, Flare. And… Flare sucks. You know why? Because Holy is better in every single way imaginable. It’s stronger, faster, less MP, and cheaper to learn.

Talk Skill = Generally useless, but you can lower/raise Br/Fa, which is very important. Otherwise, it’s got some neat weapons, but none that are too reliable. However, it’s better than the bottom-tier.

Dance = Heavily underrated. Imagine this situation. A Dancer hiding in the far back using Nameless Dance over and over again, while your melee units rush up and fight. Not too fair for the enemies huh? Still, it’s a bit too inconsistent and slow at times.

Sing = Same basic thing, except its on your allies. And oh, Dance is better because crippling enemies is better than boosting allies.

Geomancy = Good in every way, except that its very weak. True, it can be boosted to do a good deal, but so can just about everything else. Status-effects are very useful, however, but its not as reliable.

Basic Skill = How is this above Charge? All you have is Accumulate, really. You can finish off a weakened enemy with Dash if you think you’ll miss, but really, it sucks. And yes, you can knock people off ledges, but these are very specific situations.

Charge = Pretty useless, but you can get in some Charges usually, boosting your damage, which can’t be that bad.

Battle Skill = The ONLY time this is useful is if the character with this equipped also has a gun. Otherwise, it’s pointless. And, even with a gun, its unreliable. I mean, what would you rather do, break an enemy’s weapon? Or throw a huge summon on him, killing him, and probably anyone else near him?

Now, for the special characters.

I’ll start off by saying no character in this game is bad.

God Tier:
Orlandu = He’s in this category alone. Nothing else but an Assassin is as good as this guy. He can beat the game by himself without any serious trouble and without changing classes. Can Reis do that?

Top Tier:
Reis = Unbelievable stat growth, and very good abilities. Dragoner as a class is pretty good, but she really shines when you level her up with that insane growth and make her into some other kind of killing machine.

Beowulf = Stupidly good abilities. You got this one right.

Mid Tier:
Ramza = Really good stats and abilities, but just not as good as Beowulf’s brokage or Reis’s insane versatility.

Agrias = You just don’t beat Holy Sword.

Worker 8 = This thing wrecks because its the best tank in the game. It also has huge range and power. Seriously, very, very few things can bring this down.

Byblos = Shock and Parasite. Unfair.

Low Tier:
Rafa = Random? Yes. Low damage? Hell no! Again, you clearly haven’t tried her out enough. Plus, did you know that Heaven Knights can equip sticks and have near Ninja level speed? Betcha didn’t.

Cloud = Needs Materia Blade, and even then, only Finishing Touch is worthwhile.

Meliadoul = Her inability to use her skills on bosses really does drop her an entire tier.

Mustadio = Can use guns and immobilizes enemies. Unfortunately, its not for the longest time, and can’t do damage worth squat unless you have those elemental guns.

Bottom Tier:
Malak = Even he doesn’t suck. It’s basically Rafa with lower damage on everything and lower speed also. However, he can still use sticks and do quality damage if you lower his faith enough.

There. I think that list works a little better.

85

Drache: Landing a power dive in a high-level match is not too common of an occurance, but the threat of it still helps. It is downright impossible to land a power dive against Ballistic. But he’s still good for the other reasons you mentioned. His problem being that he relies on items for real muscle, but because of his speed it’s not a problem at all. Which is why i ranked him highly, but definitely not #1 because he loses to Ballistic without getting to say shit about it. IMO a character who has a 1:9 match cannot be #1, when their are other characters with no huge weakness.

Prometheus: You say he beats all the bots at close range. This is true. Only a fool fights him at close range unless they’re properly equipped though. Anyone with rockets can kill him for free using either a glitch with rockets. Without rockets, most bots can hit and run him to death on most levels. He’s seriously not reliable. I’ve played many very very good players, and many of them don’t even bother with Prometheus - if they scramble to him, they abandon him immediately and switch to a new mech. He is ok on some levels though.

Nitro: His meele weapon is th strongest weapon in the game aside from a glitched rocket and power dive. It can kill Prometheus in just 3-4 swings. However, it’s still one of the worst melee weapons. Havoc can EASILY dodge it. Drache will never get hit by it. Ballistic can’t relaly be hit cleanly with it. It’s ok against Spider. You won’t get close enough to another Nitro. So fact is, it’s very situational, and really onyl relevant against Spider and Prometheus. He is versatile, you are right about that. But he has too many bad matches. He is COMPLETELY outclassed by a Drache with ANY sort of weapon. He’s not good against Ballistic, and Spider webs will kill him if hes caught. so in the end, hes just average.

Havoc: Hit and run, hit and run, hit and run, with good power. Wher you have him ranked is about right. No arguments.

Spider: There is no argument in the world to put him at #5. It’s just not even imaginable, you must not have seen him played to his greatest potential. He’s in fact not fragiel like you say. Drache and Prometheus are more fragile than he is, he has equal vitality to nitro and Havoc and Ballistic (sort of… Ballistic effectively has the most vitality because most attacks dont connect cleanly against him). His web trap CAN BE an infinite against almost every character if you do it right. A webbed Havoc, Spider, or Nitro is usually dead against a good Spider player. Drache can often escape. Ballistic can always escape if hes grounded. Prometheus can always escape. Anyone with rockets can always escape on the ground. So you’re just flat out wrong about Spider’s web trap, which explains why you ranked him so low. Oh yeah, Spider can use the rocket glitch more effectively than anyone else in the game.

Ballistic: Ballistic does not NEEd to move and shoot. Ballistic’s main weapon is his ball attack. There’s not much relaly to explain here- its the most complicated weapon in the game, and if used right will outpower ANY OTHER MECH besidse Prometheus. So basically, EVERYONE except Prometheus is forced to fight an uphill battle against Ballistic. Prometheus is good because balling Prometheus is just foolish. Spider has a chance because he can run away with webs and stall. Nitro has a chance because he can stall with hlaser shields. Noone else can stop Ballistic from pounding them over, and over, and over until theyre dead. That’s why hes top. The best Metal Warrior player in the world can’t beat my Ballistic when hes Havoc or Drache.

We can always play on ZSNES and i can show ya what i mean about Ballistic and Spider though. Really those are the only grossly inaccurate descriptions in your post. You’re obviously a good player, you just haven’t seen the two hardest to use bots used to their potential. Once you see how dangerous they can be you’ll be on the right track =D. Playing good Spiders has made a great many players swear off the game forever

86

DaBoss… First, don’t try to assume I don’t know anything about the game b/c my opinions are different than yours.

You went into that whole spiel, but our opinions are different on only a couple of issues.

Reis vs Orlandu= Honestly, It all comes down to Reis being the best female character, and she can equip Chantage and Ribbon. She can’t die, and is immune to all status effects. So, yes, she can beat the game by herself. Innate two swords is amazing. Her innate MA and MP are better than Orlandu’s, so if you choose to use other skill sets (Math/Draw/Punch), she is amazing at them. Orlandu has better range (better move, more reach on skills and can use Move +3), and a VASTLY better skill set. But I give a slight edge to Reis due to being able to equip Chantage/Ribbon. I’ve seen Orlandu humbled plenty of times by Celia and Lede.

Anyway… On Rafa/Malak. I tried so hard to make them work. Yes, I know they have sticks. Only thing I liked about them, really. I tried to make Malak into a 0 faith/97 brave blade grasping Hell Knight… and he still didn’t pull his weight.

PHYSICAL SKILLS*
Punch Art- Sheer Versatility. decent damage, some range, and some healing properties. Sure, the vert range sucks. Gotta gameplan for that. But the versatility makes the set. And you can regain MP with Chakra. Which is very useful.

Basic Skill vs Charge… at least I can use accumulate. Charge is “free” damage, I guess… but so is accumulate. Accumulate is also the best JP builder in the game. Adv= basic skill.

Battle Skill- I can see where a lotta people say this skill set isn’t good… but time and time again I go back to it. I don’t use it w/ guns… I use Ninja’s and/or 2 swords. Ninja’s work best since they move far and fast. Two swipes of Power Break cripples any enemy in the game, and you can do whatever you want (build JP, steal, item find, whatever)

MAGICAL SKILLS
Magic in General= I think you overrate. Charge times are the suck, when there are so many skills (even with AOE) that do damage NOW, when you need to kill enemies, as opposed to when enemies can move, you mage get attacked, etc. Also, with few exceptions… classes with good MA can’t take a damn hit, and if you want high faith to cast magic well, you take MORE damage from the magic. Lose/Lose situation, IMO.

Time Mage= I will grant you I haven’t messed around w/ Demi much. But most of the bosses die really quickly regardless. Haste is good. Meteor takes too much damn time. So, IMO, only thing this SkillSet has (i guess outside of boss battles) is haste and a really slow super spell. Wheee.

Yin Yang= Best thing about this set is that it doesn’t rely on MA. So fighters and such can use it with good effeciancy. Unfortunately, you’d rather attack with those guys and KILL the enemy, not put them to sleep or some such. While I guess they can be useful, the presence of Beowulf makes this skill set obsolete.

Black Magic- Flare and Frog are the only Decent abilities, IMO since it locks on, and won’t hurt your party. The Charge times suck, IMO

White- Cure and Holy, You’re right. But they have charge times… zzzz…

Summon Magic= Honestly, I like it better than black or white. And you can’t Math it either, so that makes it unique. But… the MP costs and AT are VERY prohibitive. Can’t do both Short Charge AND Half of MP. Golem is by far the best skill. Almost worth having someone with the skill set alone. But I always find myself either planning 2 minutes for AT times, or having a Summon only hit one person. The Ifrit/Shiva/Titan trio are fast, but do crap for damage. Anything more than that, you’re using two turns to do one spell. I hate that. And having Short Charge as ESSENTIAL to use skills (Limit… cough…) does not a good skill set make.

But yeah. Thanks for engaging in the discussion. That’s just how I see things. Don’t assume i’m a beginner though. I’ve master filed this game a number of times. I just have different opinions on usefulness.

87

Double Dragon 3
Chin > all

88

I experimented with short charge + move mp up for the whole “half mp” problem. Priest seems to suck but I never got holy. Raise sucks and Raise 2 is really slow and has a chance to fail aswell.
The defensive bonuses are pretty crummy IMO and really almost everything he can do has a decent chance of missing at least when I played him (i restarted just so i could try to make a good priest but I don’t have wall, reraise, or holy yet)

89

Diablo 2 LOD (from best to worst, all IMO)

sorc (fire spell damage is pure ownage thx to synergies)
barb/amazon
pala/necro
assasin
druid (only 2 builds are effective)

90

Hey, sorry if I sounded like I was offending. I wasn’t trying to. Now, first of all, I wanna start off by saying that FFT is my favorite game. I’ve spent tons and tons of time on the game itself and have gone through countless of challenges and all that other jazz. So, some of the stuff I’m saying isn’t even opinion. I’ve tested it so many times that it’s basically fact. Now, you bring up some good points, so I’ll address those issues.

Orlandu vs. Reis: Honestly, the only serious advantage Reis has on Orlandu is Chantage/Ribbon. Everything else is seriously moot because Orlandu is such an unbelievable killing machine that everything else pales in comparison. And you also stated her innate MP and MA are better and then listed other skillsets that she could use, those being Punch Art/Draw Out/Math Skill. Draw Out is good, but All Swordskill is better. Punch Art is based off of PA, so Orlandu would be the better Monk. And Math Skill is completely moot because its so broken that ANYONE can be good with Math Skill. Trust me, a Math Skill’ing Rafa is a GOD. Also, Orlandu getting fucked up by the Assassins doesn’t really mean anything because if you know what you’re doing, not even your Squire should get screwed by those two. Their patterns are completely predictable. And finally, when I said Orlandu was able to beat the game by himself, I meant without switching classes. Reis can’t do that. But still, that’s a moot point either way.

Rafa/Malak: Well, all I can say is that they’re not completely worthless. But if you just don’t like them, then there’s nothing much I can do about that.

Punch Art: I agree and basically said all that anyways.

Basic Skill: I can agree with that, but Basic Skill is definitely not a whole tier higher “:^)”

Battle Skill: Using it with two swords is just a bad strat, sorry. Wouldn’t you much rather attack the enemy instead? And if you wanna cripple them to do stuff with them, use Sleep, Paralyze, etc. Also, Speed Break is a better crippler anyways.

Magic in General: All wrong man. Charge times are bad, but not bad to the point where the magic themselves are bad. Charge times can be gotten around with good play skill. And yes, there are abilities that work instantly, but generally, those abilities are not as good. And again, with good playing, it shouldn’t matter if you have high faith. It all comes down to how good you are at the game.

Time Mage = Short Charge/Meteor is faster than Holy. I kid you not. So you have a boss killer, Haste, and pretty darn fast super spell.

Yin Yang = Your argument works, but in that case, Battle Skill is even stupider because this set is MUCH better at crippling than Battle Skill is. And yes, Beowulf does make this set obsolete, but there is only one Beowulf. You can have multiple Oracles. And you can use this set for Life Drain, if nothing else. Life Drain is tied for the fastest spell in the game, does 25% of max hp, and absorbs the damage back. It MURDERS bosses. I kill Altima2 with this thing before she MOVES.

Black Magic = Yeah, it’s not too good.

White Magic = Charge times don’t matter when you’re good.

Summon = COMPLETELY wrong here. First of all, you don’t need Short Charge here. The summons aren’t that slow. And I don’t know what you mean when you say Ifrit/Shiva/Ramuh do low damage. You can boost your character till they do really, really good damage for their speed and MP cost. Plus, they NEVER miss and can hit a SHITload of enemies in one casting. Plus, there is Golem and Moogle. Don’t forget, MA can be boosted. You really never need to use anything above Titan and this set is still TOO good.

I’m not assuming you’re a beginner, but I can tell you haven’t tried everything out to its fullest. I can’t blame you; there’s a LOT of shit to experiment with.

And honestly, master filing really isn’t anything. This game is easy to begin with, so taking on a challenge is better. Such as beating the game without switching classes, etc.

And yes, it’s fun to talk about this kind of stuff “:^)”

91

Back on the DW topic…

I’ve played DW 2-5, and I gotta tell ya…
no matter HOW many times you guys talk smack about the lack of speed on the Wei side…

I will STILL own you with Xu Zhu. That’s right. The fat guy.
Reason being, I can parry. Reason being, I don’t NEED to be fast. You guys can run to me…I’ll be waiting and block ya…or better yet, parry your attack. Plus, charge in the air is just awesomely good with him – I call it the Pogo-Ball. So, go ahead…you can have your spear characters, and flashy quick happy characters – but unless you’re a Musou Token charged-up Lu-Bu…

I’m not worried one bit. :wink:

92

DW tiers should go like this…

God: Lu bu

And then comes these factors:

Crowd clearing supers
Spears
Good Triangle move

If you don’t have a good crowd clearing super you, such as Zhou Tai then you pretty much suck. Spears have huge range and attack random fools. A good triangle move that can dizzy people or crowd clear is good.

This game is pretty much decided by beating gate captains, which is pretty easy to do. Broken game, but one of my favorites.

93

Yes or No buddy, do the skills of the individual mean jack crap in the end? I believe the answer is yes, and just because I use the vanish/x-zone I’m not “playing” it normally…wtf are you talking about, mind telling me in a game where people “will” not use anything to there advantage…yes, I thought so. Vanish/X-Zone is still part of the game and thus should be considered into the factor, excluding this would be comparable to excluding Magneto’s infinite saying it’s not “normal” because it is a glitch is it not and thus shouldn’t be considered normal… :lame: .

I have played it straight through to the end, however maxing the characters of an rpg has usually always been a priority. Character’s worth are only decent from WoB to what…slightly after into WoR because everyone starts to do insane damage, in the end, it’s who deals the most damage and the fastest. However my saying is this, can you say that a character is not good until you have completely showed their full potential? Which is the very reason why I lvled them up to lvl 99…and wow…not everyone is as shitty as you thought they would be, everyone can be good, this is where speed comes into play…wow, everyone can be Top Tier :encore: , so to put, in FFVI, at their full potential, everyone can beat ass, period, because character individuality means jack in the end, at their Full Potential.

Locke is set at the top, because he’s the quickest in the end, wether you love it or hate it, with the equips, he can own, while everyone else can just sit and watch :clap: .

94

If you take a few hours of your time to purposely overlevel your characters to level 99, then yes, each character’s unique abilities will disappear. Hence the whole point of NOT tiering FF6 characters at level 99 when everything has become a joke.

Vanish/Doom; Vanish/X-Zone is broken. Everyone knows that it is. In a tier about how good a CHARACTER is in FF6, Vanish/Doom speaks nothing about the user. Vanish/Doom is not comparable Magneto’s infinites because infinities are actually part of normal MvC2 play. When you can Vanish/Doom your way through any enemy AND boss in the game, that should tell you how broken it is. Vanish/Doom is more comparable to MvC2’s Gambit glitch and winning with Time Over than anything else.

Again, you’ve maxed your characters to the point where their indivuality doesn’t matter, where the enemies don’t matter, and where you’re only ranking who provides the most overkill. How a character operates at Level 99 means jack shit because what kind of tier list based on overleveled characters would it prove? Just that Locke can do 9999 x8 instead of another character doing 9999 x4? When either is enough to kill just about anything. At that point, tiering them becomes moot; a tier of godcharacters has no practical importance or relevance. The game is a joke then.

You obviously didn’t read or understand how I showed that Locke’s speed isn’t much of a benefit. Unless you purposely take the time out to level him up with Odin and gain around +30 or more speed through Esper bonuses to the point where Locke can act his turn, and fill his ATB bar a second time before the other character’s are finished filling their first bar, all Locke’s high speed ensures is that he’ll get to attack first. His normal speed is not fast enough that he’ll be getting double turns for your other character’s one turn simply due to how FF6’s ATB system works. Once Locke is finished attacking, he has to wait for all the animation of the other characters and enemies to finish, even if he has a full bar, before he can attack again.

Locke’s often misplaced at the top only because people either:

  1. overrate his speed stat, thinking that high speed = more attacks in battle
  2. people overlevel him to the point where the game doesn’t matter anymore and show that Locke can provide the most overkill
  3. people think that equipping the Illumina is the only factor for determining top tier

Or some combination of the three above. So basically, your tier list is this:

Top tier: Level 99 characters who can do the most overkill
Middle tier: Vanish/Doom; other Level 99 characters
Bottom: nothing

Ain’t really much of a tier list. But hey, if you like to tier the game when your characters are all basically the same, and the only difference is based on their equips, go right ahead. It’s just that kind of tier list ultimately doesn’t give any information about each individual character, and therefore is kinda worthless.

95

for FFT:

why did no one mention teleport and blade grasp? Teleport is awesome in Deep Dungeon since there is no height restriction and you can walk through walls. As long as you stay within 4 panels, teleport pretty much never fails, 5 gets iffy, but still relatively consistent.

Blade Grasp makes you immune to 90% of all enemies in the game.

female black mage with math skill is by far the best class/skill combo. I would rank them (with the right equipment) above any special characters, even TG Cid. reasoning? ribbon makes things broken, faith rod makes her magic never miss. She doesn’t need to move to kill people, meaning she recovers AT faster. Add in some haste, and she’ll clear the board long before TG Cid can.

I was never a fan of Worker 8. you can’t haste him/heal him without someone using the Item skill, which is a waste of a slot. he doesn’t move very fast/far, can’t learn anything useful, and stats were mediocore compared to broken items that you can equip onto other characters.

For chrono trigger:

Marle + Lucca combo is awesome. Antipode team spell is awesome.
Basically Crono attacking/lumminare all day, and just antipode away and you win.

FF6: I dunno, i cheated with game genie to dup items :stuck_out_tongue:

Disgaea: Majin > * You only need majin’s, and yoshi tsuna is the most broken weapon ever.

96

Well, we were comparing primary skillsets. And TG Cid is god among all the special characters, but anything with Math Skill is better.

97

except TG Cid with Math skill hahaha

98

Maybe one on one. Considering that the games (especially DW5) are based more on beating lots of little shits than one on one fights, speed and range are very important. Granted, he is a lot beefier in DW5 than in previous incarnations due to ultimate weapon being light, but the Wei kingdom still pales in comparison to the others (except the other group).

In DW5, btw, Zuo Ci is the ultimate broken character (think Ma Chao charge on Shadow Harness, but mobile), puts Lu Bu to shame. Lu Bu is still second best however.

For FF6, Locke’s speed does come into play because the majority of the time, he attacks first, regardless of what you’re fighting. Fight a Chaos Dragon or a Brachosaur, and you want that first attack. Locke is fast enough that he almost always has first attack in battle, which a lot of characters can’t do. Locke has (as do all of the big four) an incredibly good equipment set. He is one of the few characters with defense piercing weapons (two, Atma and Valiant), has access to heavy armor (Force and Genji being among the best armors), and is one of the few characters who can still be effective in the back row (due to boomerangs, yeah, they kinda suck). The only time he is not all that great is in the WoB, but so are most of the cast. Once you get him in WoR, he is definitely one of the best.

99

Exclude leveling up to 99 (or ever taking the time to excessively over-level); and exclude Vanish/Doom, and then ask yourself, “What can Locke do striking first that makes him so good?” IMO, not much that someone else can’t do better. I don’t think Chaos Dragons are that bad of a fight where one would need a first-strike in order to win. Brachosaur, I would agree that having the first strike would be a major advantage because “Diaster” can wipe out an entire party if not properly prepared. But then again, how often do you fight Brachosaurs? The fight itself is limited to the Dragon Forest, which is primarily only used for power-leveling anyway, and even then isn’t it a 1-in-8 chance to even fight one as the Tyranosaurs are much more prevalent?

Locke’s good equipment set speaks more about the equipment than it does him. Yes, he can use Illumina, Force Armor, Force Shield… but Terra, Celes, and Edgar can also, and outdo Locke in other areas and in the entire WoB. Not to mention by the time most people do get the Illumina, the game is nearly over.

I wouldn’t say most of the cast suck in the WoB; that would imply the enemies have the upper hand over the majority of your party for over half the game. Edgar’s tools; Gau’s Rages (Templar, Rhodox, Marshal, StrayCat, Pterdon, Aspik, Behemoth… not to mention all the free level 2 spells before you even get close to getting Espers); Shadow’s Throw (99 Shirukens costs only 3000 GP) and Interceptor; Terra and Celes’ Magic + Earrings; Mog’s Dances… all these things completely own the WoB enemies. Locke’s really got nothing in WoB over these characters, and in WoR, it’s not until you get the Offering that he’ll start to be more useful.

Access to heavy armor is kind of a moot point too when 7 people out of 14 can use the Genji Armor (half the cast); and 6 people out of 14 can use the Force Armor (almost half the cast). And of the people who can’t use these armors, their selection isn’t in any way a crappier selection. Mog and Gau (and Umaro, but he’s worthless) can equip with Snow Mufflers. Relm gets Tao Robe (plus Magus Rod, plus CatHood) to equal Force Armor’s +30% Magic Block. Again, saying that Locke can use Illumina, or wear Force Armor, or wear the Force Shield isn’t really speaking much about him, but more about how powerful those equipment pieces are. And like I said before, Terra, Celes, and Edgar can all equip them, and have other things going for them above what Locke has.

As for being effective in the back row. In the entire WoB, Edgar, Shadow, Gau, Terra, Celes, Sabin, Setzer, and Mog can all function to their fullest in the back row. Edgar with Tools; Shadow with Throw; Gau with Rages; Terra and Celes with Magic; Sabin with Blitz; Setzer with Slots; Mog with Dance. In the WoR; it’s not much different. Pretty much anyone is still very viable and functional in the rear:

Terra, Celes, Relm, and Strago can should still use Magic in the back row
Edgar should still use Tools to use in the back row
Gau should still use his Rages in the back row
Shadow should still use Throw in the back row
Mog can now Dragoon Boots/Dragoon Horn jump safely from the back row
Setzer can Fixed Dice/Offering from the back row
Sabin should still use Blitz from the back row
Gogo should be Mimicing others from the back row

So that leaves Locke, Cyan, and Umaro. Out of these, Umaro is pretty much crap, and only Cyan should ever really stay in the front do to his SwdTechs being effected by row damage.

All in all; I’ll admit that if you raise Locke to level 99, he has the best potential for overkill (Atma Weapon, Valiant Knife, Offering, Genji Glove). But I have to reiterate again that, tiering characters at that point seems kinda pointless.

100 
 You can get to the WoR without leveling up past level 16 in some cases. Compare Locke to all the other characters on level 16, give him Illumina and give other characters their best weapons. The Weapons a character can equip makes a considerable amount of difference, even if they were all on level one, the weapon gives somebody an unfair advantage that the other characters don't have. The same thing could be said about Ultima, it doesn't do 9999 damage if the caster is at level 20 and by the time Terra would get it she would be overleveled as well (around level 80), which is a double standard. But if you compare the damage that a level 10 Sabin would do with Ultima then compared with a level 10 Relm then of course the proper deduction would be that Relm is the better character. 
 It's true that most characters can deal 9999 damage at level 99, but even if you don't level them up, just being able to use Illumina makes one character better than the rest. An example of this would be seen in Foucalt's description of mechanistical power which is somewhat like this:

A Modern Artist (the use of firearms) vs. Martial Artist

 The weapon that a person uses can give them a substantial increase of power, now a person with a gun can obviously kill a person armed with his fists or any non-projecticle weapon. Compare the mechanistical power to Illumina and there you have it. And in MvC2 terms it would be like comparing:

Cable vs. Ryu

 It is the same dilemma all over again. Cable has a big laser beam that is quicker than Ryu's. Cable has a gun and range, while Ryu just has his fists, considering the fact that Cable can also use Ahvb which makes him 5x better than Ryu.

 The Point is without the best relics in the game, Locke is still better than rest of the characters. His overall stats are better than the rest of them, the weapons and armor he can equip is better, better speed (considering if the rest of the characters do or don't use the Genji or Economizer combos), and in general better stats. Even though he isn't nearly as good as the rest of the characters in WoB, in the WoR all the equipment he gets makes him shine.