Tiers for non-fighting games?

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
61

Atma Weapon is the only weapon that can do 9999 with the offering without having to raise specific stats. Illumina alone makes the top 4 the top 4, due to the massive amount of stat boosts you get, which can barely be matched by any full equipment set in the game.

Locke is good because he starts with the highest natural speed, which is by far the most important stat in this game (and is also the hardest to build up). He also has access to unique equipment that is very powerful that the other big 4 canā€™t use, like the Valiant Knife.

Psycho Cyan is not hard to use, and can be pulled off in one round, two at most. For the most part, the heavy armor users have the best equipment which makes Cyan a lot better than most other characters. He is also one of the few characters that can do 9999x4 damage WITHOUT the offering or quick (although I never screwed around with imps).

Dances are only ok in WoB (partially due to high failure rate on different terrain, plus randomness factor). Arguably, his best dance in WoB (Water Rondo) isnā€™t all that great because there is almost always a chance for failure (how often are you fighting in water). Shadow is a lot better than Mog because Throw is a hell of a lot better (NOT random), plus he also gets the benefit of having a random shield in Interceptor. Mogā€™s only redeeming factors are: natural Dragoon, snow muffler. His worth as a character drops a lot once you reach the WoR

62

I agree that the Big 4 are the best, seriously, Offering + Genji Glove is ownage, period, enough said about that. Also, how can Locke not have high vigor, Iā€™ve gotten to the world of Ruin on lvl 14, lvl 14, and yes, w/out using cheating devices, there is a way to beat all of them tough baddies if you get the right magic combinations. Because the best Espers as we know it, appear when the world of ruin has happened, seriously, donā€™t lvl up your characters until after the world of ruin. Locke may seem like he sucks at the beginning but in the end, heā€™s one of the best, again the Big 4 have an advantage imo because they can equip more special items then the rest.

Seriously, if you lvl up Locke right, Offering + Genji Glove and Heā€™s a monster, period, infact, lvl up the Big 4, and offering/genjiglove combo is Top Tier, but Locke imo is the best, because heā€™s the fastest in the end.

63

Ok, Iā€™m now attempting Raiden Fighters Jet tiersā€¦

God Tier:
Slaves/Fairy - They have unbelievable damage potential, have the lowest hitboxes, and can also use Slaves themselves. Thatā€™s just not right. When you use a Slave, the game becomes ridiculously easy (well, at least everything but the bosses) because you kill all the enemies on screen before they even release a bullet. Seriously, even the worst Slave is better than the best regular jet.

Now, for the tiering of the jets. First of all, Iā€™ll list whether theyā€™re better with laser or missile, and then Iā€™ll go into a brief description of its tiering. Also, the planes in the tiers themselves have no ranking.

Top Tier:
Ixion: This planeā€™s laser and missile attacks are both really good, but I would stick with the laser because it is a bit less random. Now, this thing is just superb in every category. First of all, it is the second fastest jet in the game, and itā€™s laser attack is really, really strong. In fact, it is probably the third strongest attack in the game. Itā€™s laser charge is also really strong, and with the Ixionā€™s high speed, youā€™ll be able to clear the enemies with ease as you sweep from side to side. Oh, and its primary shot is a nice, damaging, focused spread shot. This jet is just amazing in every category.

Miclus: This plane only has a primary shot. Why is this thing top tier? It only has a primary shot, and a bomb that doesnā€™t even block enemy bullets? Wellā€¦ first of all, its primary shot is VERY VERY strong. In fact, its by far the strongest primary shot in the game, putting the Miclusā€™s total power up in the top five of all the jets. Next, its bomb, though not being able to block enemy bullets, is BY FAR the strongest bomb in the game. It just wrecks everything. And, now the most important aspect of the Miclus. It is TINY! Itā€™s hitbox is about the size of a Slave. This means if you know what youā€™re doing, youā€™ll almost never get it.

Hell Diver: Best with Laser. This plane, like the Ixion, is just very, very balanced overall. It is also very fast (probably third fastest in the game) and also has great attacks. Itā€™s laser attack throws boomerangs that cover most of the screen, allowing you to hit most enemies. Now, the big part about this jet is its laser charge attack: It shoots those boomerangs out like mad. They do heavy damage, and basically cover the whole screen! Oh, and it charges very, very fast for something that powerful. That charge attack alone warrants its inclusion in the top tier, IMO.

Judge Spear: This jet powers up its laser and missile attacks separately. This jet has nice attacks that do decent damage. Its bomb creates a chain napalm effect, where one explosion leads into more explosions with each explosion doing separate damage. Its primary shot is also pretty decent. So whyā€™s this seemingly average jet in the top tier? Itā€™s in here because it is BY FAR the fastest jet in the game, and its probably the fastest jet in any shmup game that has ever been made. This jet is SO fast that if you donā€™t have very good control, accidentally running into enemy bullets will become your main form of death very soon. However, if you do control your plane well, it is very hard for the Judge Spear to get hit because its speed is just too great. However, this jet does have a drawback: it does not have an instant bomb. This means no panic bombing to save your ass if youā€™re in trouble.

Mid Tier:
Chaser 2000: Laser is definitely better. This plane is really fast (probably tied with Hell Diver), has a great, unique homing laser, and has a very nice laser charge also. Itā€™s not in the top tier because it is a bit too weak, but its speed and crowd clearing definitely save it from being bottom tier.

Beast Wing: Laser definitely. This thing is really, really slow, but its also really, really powerful. It can be the strongest jet in the game, almost being as strong as the untouchable Slaves. Its primary shot is also a natural spread shot, meaning the closer you are to an enemy, the more damage you do. Oh, and its ultra strong flamethrower is controllable, meaning you can wave it from left to right, allowing you to clear crowds easier.

Aegis IV: Laser definitely. This jet is pretty average in everything. However, it stands out due to its laser homing shot. Its one of the more effective homing shots Iā€™ve used in any shmup, and the charged up version is even better. Not only does no enemy survive, but those lasers are actually very strong. And again, because its average in everything, that also means its not bad in anything either: meaning it has good speed, evasion, and strength.

Flying Ray: Both missile and laser are useful in their own ways. This jet has pretty good speed, and two unique weapons that can be taken advantage of. First of all, its laser as a regular attack is not too useful and very awkward to use. However, as a charge attack, it becomes one of the strongest charge attacks in the game, as long as all the lasers hit. Therefore, if you can time that well, most enemies go down real quick. Itā€™s missile attack is average, like the laser. But, again like the laser, the charged up version is a lot better. MANY, MANY cruise missiles get shot out, covering the entire screen. Now this is a screen clearer, if there ever was one. Itā€™s like the Hell Diverā€™s laser charge, minus the damage. Oh, and the trails of smoke in the cruise missiles can hinder your vision a bit, but overall, its not too big a deal.

Death Header: DEFINITELY missile. Itā€™s laser attack is just about useless. Fortunately, it has the best missile attack of any jet in the game. Not only is it strong, but it homes very, very well. Oh, and the charge attack is unbelievably strong for the speed at which it charges. Other than that its superb missile attack, this jet is fairly average.

Griffin: Laser and missile can both work. Statswise, this jet is average, but it does have two very unique weapons. Its laser attack is the third best homing weapon in the game, shooting out little pods that track down and shoot down all enemies in its path. Its a bit weak, unfortunately, and it takes a while getting to everybody, but it still gets the job done nicely. Itā€™s laser charge is the exact same as the Ixionā€™s, but for some reason, itā€™s much, much weaker. I guess that just makes the Ixion that much more scarier. Its missile attack shoots out little mines whose explosions have the unique ability of absorbing enemy bullets. Needless to say, this can be very effective if you use it wisely. However, the rate of fire of those things is very slow, so one has to watch for that. And another problem, the Griffin is really slow, which is never good.

Blue Javelin: This jet powers up laser and missile separately. Itā€™s very fast and has very nice weapons. Theyā€™re all very bland and simple, though so there isnā€™t much description needed. It shoots nice spread lasers as its primary weapon, and its missiles shoot outā€¦ regular missiles. It does good damage, though, so thereā€™s nothing to complain about. Oh, and did I mention this thing is pretty darn fast?

Bottom Tier:
Now, first of all, no jet in this game sucks. These just happen to be not as good. Proof? Many of highest top scores are acquired with the Raiden MK-II, which is in my bottom tier.

Raiden mk-II: This jet powers up missile and laser separately. First of all, this jet has the coolest weapon of any shmup ever, IMO. It is the infamous purple laser from Raiden II, the snake like laser that you have complete control over. And its missile secondary is regular homing missiles. So, why is it bottom tier? First of all, it is VERY slow. And I mean probably the slowest jet of any game EVER. That slow. This actually isnā€™t that big a problem with regular enemies because your laser of doom is attacking everything on screen at the same time, but it is a major problem for bosses. If youā€™re not too skilled, and sometimes even if you are, your slow speed makes it very hard to dodge bossesā€™ attacks. Oh, and that mega laserā€¦ itā€™s a bit on the weak side, which is only fair, since it is so good in every other category, but that puts this jet in the bottom tier.

Raiden mk-II beta: This jet powers up laser and missile separately. This jet has decent speed, but its weaponry isnā€™t the best. Its weapons are designed for coverage, meaning it sacrifices strength. However, its coverage isnā€™t a homing weapon. Rather, itā€™s a massive spread shot. Itā€™s missile is also a spread of small missiles. The problem with spread shots, is that unless you are very close to an enemy, allowing all hits to connect, they do very low damage, and in this game, you donā€™t have that many opportunities to be that close to enemies.

Eraser: Laser. This jet is very slow, but it might be the strongest in the game (itā€™s either this or the Beast Wing). However, the Beast Wingā€™s flamethrower is controllable, whereas the Eraserā€™s super lasers are not and can only shoot straight. This makes clearing crowds a lot harder. Plus, it has no spread shot like the Beast Wing, so thatā€™s also a problem. But, its charge shot is cooler ā€œ:^)ā€ Itā€™s one big super laser that crushes anything in its path!

Well, thatā€™s it. Any people that agree, disagree?

64

By the time Atma Weapon is striking for 9999 damage (meaning your HP and level are supremely high for that to happen); all your characters are ridiculously powerful already. No one is questioning that Illumina is the best sword; but since Terra, Edgar, and Celes offer a lot more than just being able to equip the Illumina; the ā€œBig 4ā€ (if there was one), definitely does not include Locke in it.

Speed is overrated and far from the ā€œmost important stat in the game.ā€ At best, a fast character will get to act ahead of one of your other characters, and that doesnā€™t account for much. Itā€™s being faster than the enemy that matters; and Lockeā€™s speed isnā€™t so lightning fast that he will lap the enemies in turn. The way FF6ā€™s battle system is designed, speed is generally not an important factor. If I had to choose a ā€œmost important stat in the game,ā€ Iā€™d vote for Magic Power above anything else.

Valiant Knife is okay; but for it to get any real good use, Locke has to be:
a) near death, or
b) so ridiculously overleveled that a fully HP swing will still do high damage because of how the game factorā€™s a characterā€™s level into dealing damage

Psycho Cyan may not be tough to setup; but it still takes time to set up. You still have to:

  1. Wait for Cyan to charge up for ā€˜Retortā€™
  2. Cast Imp on him
  3. Kill him
  4. Revive him
    After all this, Cyan will revive only to keep attacking until everything is dead. Okay, thatā€™s nice, but all this time you couldā€™ve probably already finished the battle instead of setting this up. And furthermore, it is a glitch. Itā€™s like saying, anyone with ā€œVanish/Doomā€ is top tier. Besides all this, Cyan really is a bad character. How can Cyan do 9999x4 damage without either again, overleveling? And still, Iā€™m assuming you mean through his QuadraSlice (Level 7 ignore-defense tech) move he accomplishes this (or again a ridiculously overleveled Level 4 QuadraSlam). Youā€™re still ignoring that all this time youā€™re waiting for his bar to charge, the rest of your party probably couldā€™ve cleaned up the battle altogether themselves. Not to mention you have no control over what exactly Cyan hits; he might be hitting the same enemy for overkill when he should be spreading out his hits.

As for Cyanā€™s armor, itā€™s nothing special. Cyan can equip with Genji Armor; but then again, so can 6 other people. And actually, Genji Armor isnā€™t really that special at all. Raw defense does not make up the best armor. Mog and Gau get Snow Mufflers; already a better equip than Cyan. Relm, Strago, and Gogo get Magus Rods and TaoRobes (+30% and +10% MagicBlock respectively). Relm gets CatHood (another +10% MagicBlock, plus a whole bunch of other stat boosts). Terra/Celes get Mystery Veil (+3 Magic and +10% MagicBlock) and Minerva (+25% MP; + various stats; +10% MagicBlock; various elemental defenses). Cyanā€™s armor equips are definitely nothing stellar; arguably the worst in the game.

Mogā€™s worth of a character doesnā€™t drop from WoB to WoR, it changes. His dances are overpowered in WoB, despite their somewhat noticeable failure rate, they are still more damaging than the spells fired off by Terra or Celes at the time. And, he joins at a good few levels above your party at the time with better equips too. Shadow was put too low on your list. With 99 Shurikens (which costs only around 3000), you have a Throw attack that is consistently stronger than any physical attack your party is capable of at that time. Setzer is also too low on your list. If there was ever a canidate for the Offering, itā€™s Setzer with his Fixed Dice since that weapon isnā€™t effected by Offeringā€™s attack penalty.

Offering/Genji Glove is not that great of a combo. Sure, itā€™s damage potential is probably the best on a Level 99 Locke with Atma Weapon/Valiant Knife doing 9999 x8 damageā€¦ but youā€™re missing the point of leveling up that much breaks the game anyway. A tier list of level 99 characters wouldnā€™t say anything really about the character. Locke sucks in the WoB and gets somewhat redeemable in WoR; but heā€™s nowhere near as exploitable as other characters like Terra, Edgar, or Gau who are viable throughout the gameā€¦ unless you overlevel the crap out of your party.

65

If we where not to conclude max lvl then that means many characters within an rpg would be rank severely differently. Ayla is not even that great until into the later parts of her game when she recieves Iron Fist, sheā€™s pretty good before hand, but not enough where I would take out Lucca for her.

Even in FFX, if that was the case, Yuna isnā€™t even that great until later into the game, where her more powerful summons come into place, other than the OD of the Summons, they do mediocre damage until you recieve Bahamut which is late into the game and the summons after him. Lulu would be extremely good because she will deal good damage portionally throughout the entire game, and pyshically Auron would rock. However we all know that in the end, the listing is very differently when maxed because Wakka has the potential to deal the most 99999 when compared to everyone else.

I will admit, Locke sucks at the WoB, but after, if you donā€™t lvl up any of the characters until the WoR, thatā€™s when you notice the potential of many of them. Locke in the end, is one of the best, because I feel you underestimate speed, because heā€™s almost usually the first character to strike, and when maxed, yes, everyone will do ridiculous damage, but it will come down to who will do the most in a succession and the fastest. Magic is great, however later on, itā€™s nothing compared to the genjiglove/offering combo. The most you can do with Ultima is twice with the option of gem box, however, why do that, when thereā€™s another combination thatā€™s even far better and can kill them even far faster, many monsters would require more than 2 Ultima attacks to kill. Not to mention the offering/genji glove combo will wipe out any boss period, even Kefka who has 64k will die from from the 8x 9999 damage.

In the end, it comes down to speed, and how much damage you can deal within the time frame that will start to seperate the characters, if we where to say throughout the game, then Locke isnā€™t that good, however that would show the same for many rpgā€™s, but Iā€™m saying if you where to pump to lvl 99 and with the right stats build, also, magic damage isnā€™t all that, because with the other magic combination itā€™s even more powerful against bosses or singled enemies then what Ultima could ever bring and plus you can do this before ever getting Ultima.

66

Morphed Terra is stronger than Mog in WoB. Sure, Relm has a good equipment set, but how is she going to damage the enemy? She isnā€™t even the best magic user due to the fact that Terra can effectively double her magic power by morphing.

All Mog can do to damage are random dances and the ability to use the Dragoon Boots + Dragon Horn combo. Dances in WoR do not cut it. Why bother with them when so many other characters have guaranteed damage? Mogā€™s worth in WoR is as a Dragoon, not a Dancer.

Of the Big 4, Celes is arguably the worst. Her natural magic set is worse than Terraā€™s, she is weaker than Terra (due to morph), and she has by far the worst unique ability of the 4. Her only redeeming factor is her equipment set, but I view Lockeā€™s speed and Edgarā€™s tools as better.

You shouldnā€™t tout Relmā€™s Mag. Block, considering that Locke gets 120% with 3 items only: Illumina, Force Armor, and Force Shield. Give him a White Cape and the Offering, and he now has max mag. block and can do good damage by attacking.

Shadow is low due to how good the top 4 are. Arguably, he is better than Sabin, but at best that puts him at 6th. I donā€™t think he sucks, but he isnā€™t as good as those above him.

67

Anyone wanna do the FFX-2 dressphere tiers??? Mascot and trainer as well as the special ones are different for each character so Iā€™ll leave those alone.

God: Gunner

Top: Darknight, Alchemist, Berserker

Upper Mid: Gun Mage, Samurai, Warrior

Low Mid: Thief, White Mage, Lady Luck

Low: Black mage, Songstress

68

The most important stats in FF6 are in order Mblock (the best :clap: ), Magic Power, Speed, Vigor, and Stamina. Evade :tdown: is made useless due to Mblock.

Speed is a wildcard of a status. It isnā€™t the best, but it can be made redundant by the use of Gembox and Quick, unlimited turns, yay.

Mblock is basically how characters can evade magic attacks and physically based attacks, if anyone analyzes the algorithms of the game then youā€™ll see what Iā€™m talking about. Basically a character that has good Mblock can withstand almost all magical attacks, and physical attacks that have status induced ailments. So all the people that discard the Force Armors for the Genji Equipment are in for a treat.

In FF6 most characters attack with magic based attacks and characters like Sabin, specifically, depend on magic. For most of Sabinā€™s blitzā€™s especially the Bum Rush, his best one, depend on his magic power and not his vigor. Only the Pummel, the useless Suplex, and one other blitz depend on his physical attack.

Itā€™s ridiculous that Gogo makes it in the top tier of some peopleā€™s lists with his awfully low Vigor, Magic, and other stats.

As stated previously most characters can do 9999 damage with the Genji and Offering. However, the tiers are based on the weapons that the characters can use (merit award is bullshit :tdown: seeing that it takes a spot on the relic equipment that can be used for Marvel Shoes which inflict all positive magical effects such as protect, shell, haste, on a character:karate: or Ribbon etcā€¦) and their stats. Speed is good for a magical party, because two spells are quicker than 8 attacks in a row. If one character has the Genji combo then speed is redundant due to the 8 successive attacks, which by the time they are done fill the ATB gauges of all the enemies and characters in battle. Psycho Cyan is also bullshit, because it should be counted as a cracked out imp glitch instead of Cyan. The general consensus is:

Top tier:
Terra (Morph doubles her attack power, magic power, etcā€¦ making her as good as two characters combined)

The rest of the top tier:
Celes
Locke (Speed)
Shadow (M block second highest, throwing penetrates defenses and he has Interceptor)
Gau (Snow Muffler = Mblock)

High Mid tier:
Edgar
Relm
Setzer (Fixed Dice and Dice x Genji x Offering = more damage than what Sabin can do with Bum Rush)

Low Mid tier:
Sabin
Cyan
Mog

Low tier:
Umaro

?tier:
Gogo good/bad. A little bit of everything depending on ability set-up, but his stats suck.

Evaluating characters in single player games without the use of espers deviates from the whole leveling up system of the game.

the Crono Trigger stats should go like this.

To measure them in battle would have to be done against Lavos and Nu Spekkio. Healing isnā€™t that much of a factor, if it was then Marle would be the best there is. Every character has the option of using one of those 99 possible elixirs from New Game+'s. Basically the best would be these 3 due to the high magic damage, physical damage, in their placements.

Top tier:
Crono=Luminaire=ownage

Ayla is good at the end really top, but still not as good as Crono. Best Physical attack hands down.

Magus has great magic. He can Dark Matter everything. Raven Armor better than every other armor.

Mid Tier:
Robo
Frog
Lucca

Low tier:
Marle

Knights of the Round:
From best to worst
Lancelot
Arthur
Percival

Xenogears:
Fei is top, I forgot though.

69

Locke doesnā€™t suck that much in WoB, he gets Thief Knife which also increases his speed, Air Lancets and other goodies combined with at least a Hyper Wrist, Atlas Armlet, or Genji Glove which make him pretty dangerous. No one can actually exploit these relics as much as him, because he is the character that uses The Fight command more than anyone else in the game. Edgar has tools, Terra has Magic, etc, etcā€¦but When he gets Full Moonsā€™ and Hawkeyesā€™ he deals up to 2,000 damage onto a single enemy.

What really sucks about Locke is that in the WOB he doesnā€™t get to multi-target enemies, but that is kinda whack considering single-targetting is the most effective way of eradicating a boss.

Another thing about Locke is that he gets to use Wing Edgeā€™s which raise almost every fucking stat he has and not by 1+ point, but by 7+.

Anyways Castlevania Symphony of the Night

Shield Rod and Alucard Shield equals total ownage. Drains energy, you become partially invulnerable, kills everything, the combination of the gods.

70

Somebody with real knowledge of Final Fantasy Tactics (unlike me) should tier that gameā€¦

I havenā€™t played that game in years, and thereā€™s a lotta different combos you can makeā€¦ Probably have to tier main characters (Ramza, Orlandu, the chick with the ā€˜breakā€™ skills) and the generic jobs seperate.

Iā€™d assume out of the main characters, Orlandu is tops? Since heā€™s got all the sword skills of the other characters, but even strongerā€¦

For jobs, I have no ideaā€¦ maybe Lancers for their reach and mobility, plus high attack, and their ability wear heavy armorā€¦? Also, if say an enmey starts a summon, you can jump the turn prior to the summon and avoid any damage IIRC.

71

The point of not ranking specifically FF6 at max levels (or over-leveled characters) is because all characters at that point become so ridiculously overpowered that it doesnā€™t matter anymore. A Level 99 Relm will strike for 9999 damage; Morph will effectively do nothing as Terraā€™s damage will already cap at 9999 per hit. Thatā€™s why ranking FF6 when your characters are so overpowered thatā€™ Kefka dies in one strike of 9999 x8ā€™ would be silly at that point.

Again, the only way Genji Glove/Offering combo > Ultima x2 with Gem Box is if your characters are really overleveled. If youā€™re thinking that Genji Glove/Offering = 9999 x4; re-evaluate what levels your characters are when that is happening.

Speed is an overrated stat, especially concerning Locke. Unless you raise it up in a huge bulk (with Odin), Lockeā€™s high speed just means he probably gets his turn first or lap one of your own really slow characters a turn. Heā€™ll never be blazing fast enough where he will be attacking twice for another characterā€™s one turn (again, unless you stat boost like crazy with Odin). And again, the way FF6ā€™s ATB battle system takes into account attack animation; as long as your bar is filled you get a turn. Lockeā€™s high speed just gets him his turn first.

I never said anything about Morphed Terra being bad; and I donā€™t know what youā€™re trying to say to compare Morphed Terra (best mage) with Relm. Relm does have the highest magic stat in the game, but of course Terraā€™s Morph ability doubles her power (but for a fixed amount of time). Does that mean Relmā€™s magic casting abilities all of a sudden suck because Morphed Terra exists? Thatā€™s silly. Unless youā€™re going around purposely taking time to raise your levels and thus accumulate a large supply of Magic Points; Morph will not be viable in the long run because Terraā€™s charge will run out. Youā€™ve neglected the strength of Mogā€™s Dances in WoB and Relmā€™s extemely good role as a mage solely because of Terraā€™s Morphing ability, without considering that Morph will not be that commonly used in the many random battles your party will have to fight through.

And I never claimed that Dances were useful in WoR. Theyā€™re not. By the time you hit WoR, yes, Mog switches from being a mage Danger into a physical attacking Dragoon. But WoR Mog with Snow Muffler, is just a plain bitch to kill due to his ridiculously high DEF, add in Dragoon Boots/Dragoon Horn/Aura Lance combo; and Mog is not bad at all. In the WoB however, Mogā€™s Dances are really more impressive than you give him credit for.

I didnā€™t ā€œtoutā€ Relmā€™s MBlock equips over Locke. It was more like I was pointing out that she has really good equips that you seemingly ignored. About Lockeā€™s Illumina/Force Shield/Force Armor combo. Yes, Locke is one of the 4 who can equip the Illumina, but consider the other 3 (Terra, Celes, Edgar) are generally considered more and effective for reasons other than just solely being able to equip with the Illumina/Force Shield/Force Armor combo; and you can see why that point isnā€™t really that impressive for Locke.

Celes is a weaker Terra, but is that a bad thing? Compare her to the rest of the cast, and you still have a character who has better equips, a better magic stat, and a better MBlock stat than more than half the cast. Why would her natural spell list matter unless youā€™re playing a Natural Magic only game? Most people wouldnā€™t consider that kind of playing style standard, so I assumed a good FF6 tier list wouldnā€™t be based on that.

You said Shadow is arguably better than Sabin (which I donā€™t think itā€™s very ā€œarguable,ā€ as itā€™s generally out and out true: Shadow has better equips, better stats, 50% Physical Evade/Counter attack with Interceptor, Throw damage potentialā€¦ all this over Sabin); yet you placed Sabin over him (and CYAN over both of them). Cyan definitely deserves his bottom tier status for having a very wasteful and ineffective skillset, low magic power, and generic equips.

When ā€œmost characters [are] doing 9999 damage with Genji Glove/Offering,ā€ thatā€™s because these characters are overleveled. If you choose to tier FF6 with everyone at Level 99, then the tier list wouldnā€™t really say much about the characterā€™s potential, but rather itā€™d just be about a who-can-equip-what list.

72

I guess I can rank FFT since thatā€™s the game Iā€™m probably most knowledgeable on. And yes, out of the special characters, Orlandu is definitely tops.

73

I would contradict everything by maxing lvls, why wouldnā€™t it be so. Also, why ā€œcanā€™tā€ equips come into play, because they are also a part of what makes a character good, to say that maxing the characters lvlā€™s to find out who is the best being ā€œmuteā€ is pretty bogus. Also, in FF games Iā€™ve noticed from FFVI, that the characterā€™s potential will usually mean jack in the end, isnā€™t this also a trend that is shown in fighting games as well? Most abusable? Fastest? Deals the most damage in a short window frame?

The same can also be said about rpgā€™s as well, Cloud is obviously Top Tier because he can unleash OmniSlash, which can deal even more damage than Knights of Round Table when focused upon a single enemy, plus heā€™s naturally quick. Wakka is Top Tier because in the end Attack Reels has the potential to deal the most damage in a single session. Ayla is one of the best, because she has the ability to reach 9999 and she canā€™t even do that until sheā€™s like whatā€¦lvl 97 which gives her Iron Fist. Many characters donā€™t show their true potential until fully lvled, thus the reason why I would rank them upon lvl as well.

Locke is still for me, one of the best, because in the end, being capable of usually being the first character to strike, he comboed with genjiglove/offering will make him extremely powerful. I feel itā€™s pratically no different from comparing characters in a rpg to a fighting game, the most abusable and most exploitable tatic will always make certain characters rise above the rest.

Btw, against singled enemies or boss characters, Ultima is NOT the way, if you want it to be easier, Iā€™ll give a secret, maybe some of you may already know, but for those who dont. Easiest way to kill single enemy bosses is by using Vanish on them, and then X-Zoneā€¦the Ultimate Killer for it kills them instantly w/out having to resort to damaging them, thatā€™s the reason why I found magic to be pretty useless because this tatic made me skim through WoB and WoR with ease.

74

actually its more like

top:
Lady Luck - double items, double exp, double $$, bribe and theres a way to get the slots to whatever you want makes this the most broken dressphere ever. mighty guard +, auto life, ultima, flare, megalixer+, and CONGRATS broke the game.

Mascot - high defense and high offense and high support

Gunner - catnip + lv3 trigger happy kills anything in its path.

Gun Mage - annihilator blue bullet + invincible does crazy damage. not as much as catnip + lv3 trigger, but this is a more versatile dressphere.

2nd tier:

Theif - First Strike, Flee, Initiative helps a lot in the 100 floor dungeon. and since its attack hits twice, it compliments well with the catnip

Dark Knight - good defense, good damage but anything it can do, the other dresspheres can do better

Alchemist - good for recovery but lady luck can do that better

Samurai - fairly fast and powerful. you can reach max damage with momentum skill but it takes forever

3rd tier:
anything i didnt list

Bottom:
black mage - no flare, no ultima = no use
songstress - useless for 98% of the game

FF10 tiers:

top:
Wakka - Attack reels, can fight under water, only character with a long range weapon
Yuna - Magus sister Mindy rushes that shit down with Passado, great celestial weapon
Tidus - the only other character with a good overdrive and he can fight underwater

mid:
Rikku - just because she can fight underwater and her attack is quick
Lulu - her overdrive is not too great and it takes her the longest to attack when spamming on quick hit but her celestial weapon is a lot like yunas.
Auron - masamune with max hp doesnt do full damage really sucks

low:
the blue ape - just boring, even his celestial weapon is boring

75

I donā€™t think tiering fighting games is the same as tiering an RPG. They share some aspects, but fighting games also have a bunch of things that simply donā€™t translate well when applied to an RPG. What standards do you judge FF6 by?

If you think leveling all 14 characters up to Level 99 and then comparing their damage potential in battle, well then thatā€™s your choice. Personally, I do think an FF6 tier based on maxing out your characterā€™s levels and stats is essentially moot. At that point, all your characters are doing 9999 per hit and essentially all of them are pretty much untouchable. Is anything really standing in your way then? I donā€™t think so; and I donā€™t think you can really judge how good a character is in FF6 if you decide to break the game and max everyone out.

I didnā€™t say equipment doesnā€™t matter; but itā€™s not all that matters. Lockeā€™s ability to equip the Illumina is indeed a plus on his side, but when characters like Terra (Morph, superior magic, superior other equips); Edgar (owning the WoB with Tools, superior other equips); Gau (Rages completely dominate WoB and are still overpowering in WoR)ā€¦ equipment isnā€™t everything.

Again, with Locke, Iā€™ll agree that if you level him up to 99, give him the Atma Weapon, Valiant Knife, Offering, and Genji Glove, he is capable of the most damage at 9999 x8. But youā€™re missing the very obvious point that itā€™s not Locke that makes that combo goodā€¦ itā€™s the Level 99 part. At that point, the game is a joke and all the characters are basically god-like compared to the enemies. If you want to find the differences in these god-like characters in order to tier them, then go ahead, but ultimately that tier list doesnā€™t mean much in general at that point.

The same thing with Vanish/Doom; Vanish/X-Zone. That strategy speaks nothing of the character who uses it, and therefore most people ignore it when making a tier list (similar reasoning why people would probably ignore applying Esper stat-raising or Merit Award setups).

76

Thanks Ouro. I didnā€™t realize Lady Luck was that powerful. How could you get the slots to do anything you want? I basically just stuck with Gunner + catnip and didnā€™t really explore anything else. Is Samurai really that good? I always believed BErserker was better. Samurai didnā€™t seem to get the damage in fast enough I found.

77

Reasons for my tierings:

  1. Drache - Top because of his speed and his drop attack. He can play run away with his ability to fire one way and move the other, or he can play aggressively and go for his drop attack (which will kill any other mech in one hit). Also, by tapping block you can clear bridges, thus slowing down all of the other mechs.

  2. Prometheus - High because of his strength at long and short range. Prometheus is the only mech that has bullets which travel all of the way across the screen, this means that all other mechs will probably take a few hits before they get close. Also his long range shots do the damage of 8 regular shots. His melee weapon will kill any mech if they are caught in it for more than a second which eliminates hth as an effective way of defeting him. His floating mines do enough damage to prevent enemys from trying to drop from above (except for Drache who can survive enough mines to destroy Prometheus unless Drache is dropping in a very high chasm). The best way to fight him is at midrange, where all other mechs will still take a lot of hits (and a whole lot of hits if Prometheus has seekers or bouncy bullets). His only real weakness is that he has to take elevators which leave him very vunerable. But you can win most matches on the bottom of the stage (since his slugs travel all of the way across the stage, then go eight ways when they explode). Also fighting Drache is a problem since Prometheus is so slow, hiding in a narrow corridor is the best way to fight him, and this isnā€™t even all that effective since Drache can move quickly and strafe Prometheus.

  3. Nitro - Mid-High because of his versitility. He is quick, he can fly and his melee weapon has good range and damage. Because of his ability to fly he can rush the enemy mech down and melee them to death, this is especially effective when combined with a grenade launcher. He can also use his X button shield to mount a safe mid rang attack or he can use it to do damage to an enemy which is chasing him. The only mechs he really has a problem with are Prometheus because his fire kills Nitro quick, and Drache because his drop is always a risk.

  4. Havoc - Mid. Havocā€™s melee weapon is ok, better range than Nitroā€™s but less damage. His bullets are stronger than the other mechā€™s (and they look cooler too). He canā€™t fly which doesnā€™t enable him to chase other mechs. But his X button dash lets him move very fast and jump really far. Also when using his dash bullets he fires during it will queue up in front of him, this enables him to make a great hit and run mech.

  5. Spider - Mid-Low because he is too fragile. Spider is very fast, very manuverable, has great damage potential, his block makes him invisible, but his is just too fragile to be ranked higher. A direct attack against anything (except Ballistic) will get you killed. His best tactic is the super deadly web trap (I assume this is what you mean by infinite). The real problem with this is that it is only a true infinite versus Ballistic (in ball form) and Prometheus (in the air). The other mechs can either shoot their way out in the air, or melee out on the ground. Granted it does massive damage, but if the other player escapes spider is dead.

  6. Ballistic - Low because he canā€™t move and shoot. His melee weapon is his only means of doing damage on the move, but it is so weak that it is better used as a means of moving around. The only time it is really effective is in narrow corridors and even then the other mechā€™s melee weapon will probably kill Ballistic first. Charging his X button attack for a big shot then tapping it for a bunch of medium sized shots is his best tactic. However, this takes so long to charge that the other player has plenty of time to move in and melee you, unless they are Prometheus (but Prometheus wins if a fire fight so that really doesnā€™t matter). Also, hit and run tactics donā€™t work since it takes Ballistic so long to ā€œunpackā€ before he can shoot.

Feel free to argue with me, but it is going to take a lot of convincing for me to believe that Ballistic is top.

78

If we where to judge it by your standards then Ayla is garbage as Iā€™ve stated. She is NOT Top Tier then, because it would be Chrono/Robo/lucca, with Ayla in middle tier, because her potential is not realized until sheā€™s in the later part of the game where she can deal 9999, that is one of the reasons why sheā€™s considered Top Tierā€¦which is pratically maxed lvl. Because in the earlier parts of the game.

I would even go as far as say that Magus is better than her, because Dark Matter has more damage potential then what she can deal in the earlier to mid lvls even almost until the end, it is the near the end of lvling up with Ayla that she truly shines, if we follow your theory, then Ayla isnā€™t so good at all, charm would be one of her only real reasons to use her and her overall speed other than that, Lucca or Magus is a better character at the beginning then her because of their superior magic properties. My comparison of the fighting game status to an rpg has the same universal ideaā€¦abusable/fast/powerful. Donā€™t the Top Tierā€™s in fighting games share similar qualities as well as Rpgā€™s to a certain extent?..isnā€™t Chrono one of the fastest characters in the game, can deal exeptionally good pyshical damage, and has very powerful single special attacks and his skills only continue to grow all the way through to lvl **, I do believe so. Yes, they are two completely different games, they may not share 100% similarities but they share the same abusable/fast/high damage ideal purpose for stating a tier listing.

As Iā€™ve stated before, if maxing the lvls is NOT a considerment for tiering a list than thatā€™s pretty lame indeed. Maxed Lvl is Part of the game, and should be taken into affect, to say that it isnā€™t is rather absurd, if you remember correctly, I ranked Locke as Top Dog because of his natural speed in the end, that coupled with the combo makes him one of the best, if not the best because he will always attack firstā€¦it is because he is naturally so fast and equipped with this combo that will make him better than the restā€¦thus the reason why I felt that speed was underrated when it shouldnā€™t be at all. Try equipping the combo to Edgar, although he can deal the 8x 9999 damage, Locke will almost always attack before him, meaning that if Locke had the combo, he would be a far better character than having Edgar use the combo. The Big 4 are definetly above the rest, because they can equip things that the rest canā€™t, which for me does indeed seperate them from the rest.

ā€œSpecificsā€ of a character starts to mean jack towards the end of the lvls in FFVI, you are right, everyone will do ridiculous damage, however itā€™s who does it the most and the fastest, and why shouldnā€™t it be considered, it is indeed the character showing their ā€œfullā€ potential, thatā€™s the very reason why character specifics go out the window for FFVI imo.

I stated the vanish/x-zone tatic is because it makes Magic pretty pathetic, another reason why Magic Power isnā€™t a ā€œhugeā€ thing and should not be considered a huge factor for ranking a character, unless your attacking multiple enemies, however, against bosses, with the majority of them being solitary, the vanish/x-zone tatic will wipe them out far faster than using Ultima. If I can skim through the WoB with using this tatic and I got to the WoR with the vanish/x-zone tatic on lvl 14, it goes to show itā€™s superiority over Magic Attacking because there is no way I can get to the WoR on lvl 14 by using magic attacks or pyshical damage, I feel that magic power shouldnā€™t be considered so highly within this game when you have a powerful tool such as vanish/x-zone, in which everyone can use and exploit, and can be a far more effective tool, especially up against bosses.

79

Basic Character Classes/Skill Sets

Best Skill Sets=
God Tier= Math Skill
Top Tier= Martial Arts, Draw Out
Mid Tier= Throw, Geomancy, Battle Skill, Item, Steal, Jump,
Low Tier= Black Magic, Summon, White Magic,
Really Low Tier= Time Magic, Yin Yang Magic, Talk Skill, Dance, Basic Skill, Sing,
Worthless=Charge

Quick Explanation=
Math skill is god. Instant, Full Screen, No MP Spells with a selection of 90% of the spells in the game.

Martial Arts and Draw Out are great for their versatility, Healing, Support, Attack.
Battle Skill is great w/ Two Swords to lower stats, thus cripping opponents (to perhaps steal). Item is instant healing/revive/cure status. Steal is essential to get good items. Jump takes too long at first and canā€™t easy AT plan (have to do calculations). But with high speed/ Jav2, itā€™s good.
Throw and Geomancy are ok. Nothing special. Throw is nice with top tier swordsā€¦ but thatā€™s alotta work (or alotta dupe) to get them.
Magic Skill Sets are crap. Take too damn long. And without proper AT planning, you can really screw up. Only useful spells: BM= Flare WM=Holy and area affect cures. Summons take too long, and are weak, but Golem is hella good.

Time/Yin Yang/Talk are all craptastic. Dance is worthless, no damage.

Charge is the worst skill set ever. ITā€™s the skillset that makes archers the worst class in the game by far. Anything over charge 4 youā€™re not going to hit on anyone, and it doesnā€™t do that much more damage.

Best Special Characters

God Tier= 1.Reis 2.Orlandu

Orlandu because heā€™s orlandu and can Night sword all day. Reis because she has two swords and train built in, gets huge stat bonuses, and can use Ribbon/Chantage to make her indestructible. Just put Martial Arts as her secondary skill. Watch the pain.

Top Tier=Beowulf/Ramza

Beowulf because Chicken, Shock, and Break are awesome and instant. Ramzaā€™s Scream, Yell, And Ultima are pretty good, but his equipment selection is what makes him awesome. He can wear knight swords and stat boosting robes and clothes naturally, the only character who can do so. His magic stat is great in this class, making him a no brainer choice to have math skill.

Mid Tier= Agrias, Mustadio
Both of these characters will do a TON of gruntwork in Chapters 2 and 3ā€¦ but fall off in chapter 4. Agrias is Orlandu Lite (but can use ribbon/chantage). And Mustadioā€™s Snipe skills work WAY more than they should at 8 squares away.

Low Tier= Meliadoul, Worker 8, Cloud

Meliadoulā€™s Skills only work on humans, but on those, theyā€™re great. You may want to steal instead of break though. Worker 8 is immune to magic, but hurts himself when he attacks. Good range and power though. Cloud pretty much sucks except for Finishing Touch, which is an auto kill on any enemy. Materia Blade is a crappy weapon too.

Worthless Tier= Rafa, Malak

So seriously beyond shitty. Random area effect Low Damage skills? You have to be joking. Only good thing about them is Rafa is good at item finding.

80

Youā€™re right, I wouldnā€™t rate Ayla as a top tier. She gets Bronze Fist at level 96; before that she gets Iron Fist at level 72; and for the rest of the time, she was stuck with just a regular Fist. By the time sheā€™s hitting for 9999 damage, you wouldā€™ve been lightyears passed where the game actually presented any sort of challenge to you. If I were to tier RPGs, I would generally base them around a ā€œstandardā€ or ā€œnormalā€ playthrough conditions. When youā€™ve gone out of your way to break the game by leveling everyone to the max to the point where everything has become a joke, then a tier based on that wouldnā€™t really give anything informative other than: who can cause the most overkill.

Again, you keep bringing up 9999 x8 with Locke while ignoring the very obvious fact that you overleveled your characters to a point where nothing poses a threat to any of them. At that point, itā€™s not the character himself/herself that is good; itā€™s the ā€œLevel 99ā€ part that is making you do the damage. If you want to tier FF6 as ā€œthe person who can provide the most overkill when max leveled,ā€ yes, Locke will be #1. If you play through the game without maxing everyone out, and without abusing crap like Vanish/Doom, youā€™d actually see the worth of each character, and your opinion might change then.

Lockeā€™s speed is constantly overrated. The way FF6ā€™s ATB system works is, as long as a characterā€™s ATB bar is full, he/she gets a turn. This takes into account all the attack animation as well. Lockeā€™s bar will probably fill up first because of his high speed, but battles will generally play out like this:

  1. Lockeā€™s ATB bar fills up first, Locke attacks (animates)
  2. Character 2ā€™s ATB bar fills up next, Character 2 attacks (animates)
  3. Characters 3-4; Enemiesā€™ ATB bars fill up, they attack in turn (animates)
  4. Locke, who probably had a full bar sometime during step 3 STILL has to wait for his turn because he has to wait for all the attack animation of step 3 to finish
  5. Repeat from step 1

All Lockeā€™s speed does is probably ensure that he gets to attack first and that his bar fills up faster. On paper, it sounds really good; but in practice, itā€™s really not as spectacular as everyone makes his speed out to be. Locke is still forced to wait until everyone who got a full ATB bar after him finishes their animation, at which point heā€™ll go again and the cycle repeats.

ā€œBig 4ā€ meaning those who can equip Illuminaā€¦ thatā€™s a pretty shoddy top tier requirement. Especially because:

  1. You donā€™t get the Illumina until over half the game is over, essentially ignoring the whole WoB and decent chunk of WoR.
  2. The way youā€™re judging things is by maxing everyoneā€™s level to 99, which Iā€™ve stated why that type of ranking really means jack about how the character plays.

Vanish/Doom; Vanish/X-Zone is broken. I think if a person was serious about making a character tier list in FF6, theyā€™d disregard that. Iā€™ve gone through the game with most characters at Level 6 and never having to use Vanish/Doom; so donā€™t think that it is impossible to beat the game without it. You underestimate magic because you used a broken glitch. You might as well just make your tier list:

Top tier: Level 99 characters, Vanish/Doom
Bottom tier: anything else

But then again, what good is that tier list going to be?

Magic is very good if you play through the game ā€œnormally,ā€ and that Magic Power stat affects a lot more attacks than just spells.