Tiers for non-fighting games?

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
1121

Need for Speed 3 Hot Pursuit Tiers

God Tier

El Nino: El Nino is hands down the best car. It’s good at everything it does: Acc, Spd, Brk, Hnd, everything. It will out speed any car in the game during a long stretch, the highest I ever got with it was 222 (although people claim they got 226)

In Vs. Mode it’s almost unmatched not unless your running with another El Nino. The Mercedes CLK could give it a run for it’s money, but don’t expect it to very long.

Mercedes CLK GTR: This is a very solid car. It’s powerful, and it almost has max stats in just about everything. The highest I got with it was 200, which is pretty good because it’s a very solid racing car. The CLK should beat out every other car in the game not named El Nino, and even then it could potentially upset El Nino if the driver is very good on the track being raced in.

Top Tier

Jaguar XJR-15: The XJR is VERY good at handling. On courses like “The Summit” this car will rape and test the gods. The only thing keeping from god tier is its mediocre speed toward the god tier cars…I only got 180 with it I believe (but that’s still very good though)

Lamborghini Diablo SV: This Lamborghini has deadly top speeds. It can run with any car during a long stretch, seriously. The problem is that it has some very weak handling problems, and this car doesn’t brake very well. “The Summit” or the “Lost Canyons” tracks will fuck this car up, the highest I got with it is 212/215.

Middle Tier

Ferrari 550 Maranello: The idea choice if you wanna unlock shit. It’s got terrible acceleration, but it should keep up with any other car that’s not listed above and outpace them.

Italdesign Nazca C2: This C2 has almost mimic stats as the Maranello. I got a LITTLE bit more speed outta of it, and it brakes ok. But damn does it got some nasty handling…shit just spins and spins on some levels.

Low Tier

Ferrari 355 F1: A good starters choice. Doesn’t excel in anything but pretty well-balanced to get you some of the other shit up there.

Lamborghini Countach: Nothing like that other Lamborghini up there. Speed is excellent for a car waaay at the beginning, but everything else is pretty terrible. Poor handling, braking, everything but speed - the other Lamborghini is waaaaaay better.

Shit Tier

Chevy Corvette: Unfortunately this game has a shit tier, and it’s the Corvette. It’s got really impressive braking, but then it just becomes a joke. It gets out-ran, outmatched, outclassed by every other car. You’ll have to race your ass off to win a race with this car…

1122

By that same token, Haschel should be lower. Hex Hammer and Omni-sweep aren’t much easier.

But yeah, if you absolutely can’t do Albert’s additions, then you should drop him for someone else not named Kongol.

Grandia II, where boobs are top tier.

S: Millenia
A: Elena, Tio
B+: Ryudo, Roan
B-: Mareg

Millenia has Spellbinding Eye. 'Nuff said.

Elena, not Millenia, has the strongest magic attack in the game: White Apocalypse. She also has Droplets of Life for uber-healing/resurrection/status-restoring madness. Tio’s the only character with a Cancel attack that can hit multiple enemies, plus she gets a good party-wide buff in Whisper to Stars. She’s really fast, too.

Ryudo and Roan are pretty much even, having about the same strength and agility. Ryudo’s got the Sky Dragon Slash and has fast regular and critical attacks, whereas Roan is better with magic.

Mareg’s problem is his relatively low agility and his poor magic abilities. Still mid-tier, though.

Shining Force II tiers have been posted many times, but I don’t see why I can’t throw in mine:

Greater Deity:
Karna

Lesser Deities:
Frayja, Sheela

High tier:
Peter, Bowie, Wizard Tyrin

Upper-Middle tier:
Gerhalt, Sorcerer Kazin, Sarah, Pegasus Knight (Rick > Eric and Chester), Baron (Jaha or Randolf)

Middle tier:
May, Slade, Paladin (Eric > Rick and Chester), Gladiator (Jaha or Randolf), Elric, Janet

Lower-Middle:
Chaz, Taya, Luke

Low tier:
Higgins, Rhode, Gyan, Lemon

Almost Trash:
Jaro

Trash:
Zynk, Screech, Claude, Kiwi

For the knights, Rick has the highest defense, and I think Eric has the highest attack, with Chester being inferior to both of them. I don’t know the differences between Jaha and Randolf so I put them as even.

1123

Super Mario RPG tiers

Top

  • Geno- Geno Whirl rapes every normal enemy in the game (9999 damage) and it even works on some bosses. Geno is also the fastest character, but his defense is ass
  • Toadstool- Crap offense, but her healing magic is necessary to win in this game, she’s also moderately quick

Mid

  • Mario- Average all-around, he has the best weapon in the game but his techs become useless later

Low

  • Bowser- Slow, crappy techs, and Bowser’s gear is spread out pretty far throughout the game to the point where his physical stat advantage is stanched. Geno outclasses him completely
  • Mallow- His talent is being useless. Toadstool has better healing and the other 3 characters can easily do more damage than Mallow, even with his techs. He’s also slow and dies easily on top of his gear being some of the worst in the game

I was talking about the general sentiment amongst many that played LoD to death, myself included. Albert’s Additions are stupidly hard to do all-around, every single one (except maybe the first one), which is compounded by his tortoise-like speed. Just about every character with Additions has at least one hard one, but they went way too far with Albert’s.

If someone messes up with Albert, then it’ll hurt a lot more than a whiffed Addition from Meru or Haschel for example. Most enemies will get at least 2 turns per Albert’s one, so mistakes are nearly catastrophic with Albert.

As far as Kongol goes, he does have 1 real saving grace: Only 4 Additions.

1124

Hmmm. I guess I’m crazy, since Gust of Wind Dance and Blossom Storm came easily to me, yet I had a hell of a time with Hex Hammer and Omni Sweep. The costs of messing up with Albert are greater, true. Fortunately, he gets his stuff early so you don’t have to worry about wasting time mastering it for the later parts of the game.

And Kongol actually has only three additions. But you’re right – you don’t have to waste much time with him to get him to his full potential.

For the SMRPG tiers, Geno also has the awesome Geno Boost, which pretty much solidifies his position. Personally, I’d switch Mallow and Bowser, since Thunderbolt does have its uses (budget attack for the win). Otherwise, the tier-list looks fine to me.

1125

… What little he has :lol:

1126

Dibiase belongs in GOD tier (for normal mode). he has the best wakeup (the most important aspect of the game that no one knows about) in the game because both of his running attacks (which alternate and are NOT based on enemy health) both hit crouching opponents. It’s simply impossible to one-coin this game (BOTH LOOPS) without dibiase in your team. with dibiase/warrior team i can one-coin both loops easily. trust me , wakeups are the most important thing in tag team mode. the rest is secondary (and won’t help you against the LoD)

simply put, one of the following characters are NECESSARY if you want to one-coin (the first loop at least) because their weak running grapples can hit crouched enemeies

jake
dibiase
warrior

1127

oops. meant running ATTACKS not running grapples

1128

What does Magical Drop’s ??? tiers look like? I’m curious… Young Strength seems to be very high at least in 3.

Also about the SoR stuff, I play Blaze in 2, she’s WAY lower then Axel/Max. Not sure where she is in relation to Sammy because I’ve never seen a good Sammy player, but definetly there’s a huge gap between her and the Ax-Max God tier.

1129

Nifty LoD list you have there Musourenka :slight_smile:

Personally -

Godlike/S
Haschel
Meru/Miranda

Top/A

Miranda/Meru
Rose w/th the "ultimate sword"
Albert

I know some people prefer Miranda’s slightly better magic stat and superior healing spells over Meru’s versatility. I like Meru’s verstality myself.

Mid/B
Dart, Rose w/o the “ultimate sword”

*Sliced Bread

  • Air conditioning

.
.
.
.
Bottom/E
Kongol

It’s probably obvious but I like my characters w/th speed. I’d probably use Rose over Dart for that albeit it’s only a piddly five point different between them >_> Kind of a magic girl too and Rose is pretty good at that early on.

This is some interesting info though (thanks to pika from GFAQa, credits/kudos to him) -

"Well, I made a list of each 7 warriors, damage points towards Melbu Frahma. No power-ups or interferences here. From strong to weak, here are the damage points made by completed final Additions. Ah yes. They’re all LV 60, max EXP.

-Haschel: 1978 (3956 by Destroyer Mace’s effect)
-Rose: 1966
-Albert: 1908
-Meru: 1823
-Kongol: 1667
-Dart: 1645
-Miranda: 250"

Rose was equipped with the ultimate sword. So w/o it the gap between her and Meru’s attack power isn’t as big as I thought o_o Seems like Meru can hold her own at physical attack in the end on top of her awesme speed and magic power that she brings to the table to start with.

Peppita can kill Freya in around five minutes on any mode. Now that’s what I call insane

S03

Godlike -

SS - Maria/Peppita/Fayt
S- Cliff

Top -
A+ - Nel
A - Albel

Mid -
B+ - Sophia
B - Mirage

Bottom
C - Roger
C minus - Adray

Recently just finished Dragon Quest VIII myself

*Jessica - Accelerate hax. If Jess died, then the boss used disruptive energy and Jess wasn’t around to use Accelerate the boss would use multi turn hax on the other three, going so fast Angelo wouldn’t have time to revive/heal. Jess also casts Oomph so Yangus/Guv do hardcore damage.

*Angelo - Mmmm many multiple shots of healing and extended reviving power. Seriously in game where potent multi target healing items are rare and you can only buy one reviving item from a shop per time until you’ve had to use the one you bought you really appreciate your healer/support/buff characters. If Angelo died boss battles tended to go to pot for me. So I prioritised tender loving care for him.

*Yangus/Guv - Yangus has reaped great EXP rewards for my team by destroying metal king slimes w/th Hatchet Man/Executioner and lowering boss DEF w/th Helm Splitter so later he and his allies did more damage but on the other hand Guv’s healing was always nice, more healing is also nice. Also does some nifty damage w/th Falcon Slash + Uber Miracle Sword/Liquid Metal Sword. Guv just got Omniheal as well, so I’ll probably have to re-evaluate my ranking soon.

1130

@Maiden: Personally, I do think Miranda’s ranking is up for debate. The main thing I’m ranking on is overall usefulness, and to me, it looks like this:

S: Best characters for later half of the game (Haschel, Meru).
A: Best characters for first half of the game, though they can hold their own late-game (Albert, Rose).
B: Characters who are decent, but either don’t shine as much as the above characters (Dart), or their moments of awesomeness don’t last as long as the others (Miranda).

Kongol is in his own tier, of course.

Now, I don’t use Miranda much, but if it’s reasonably possible to get her to awesome status fairly early, then I’ll bump her up.

And more tiers! This time, for Etrian Odyssey. These are really up for debate, though, more so than my other tiers.

S: Medic
A: Protector, Troubador
B: Survivalist, Landschneckt
C: Alchemist, Hexer, Ronin
D: Dark Hunter

MEDIC - Full party healing, and IMMUNIZE. It’s a really stupidly good damage-reduction buff. Hell, they can even fight in the front line later in the game. Almost necessary for the main game and required for the end stratum.

PROTECTOR - Their offense is low, but their defensive skills are top-notch. Defender ups the party’s defense significantly (combine with Immunize, and your party is practically invincible), and their anti-element skills protect against really nasty elemental attacks. Highly recommended for post-game.

TROUBADOR - Buffs, buffs, and more buffs. Beyond that, they have the super-awesome Relaxing, which regenerates everyone’s TP over time. Highly recommended for post-game.

SURVIVALIST - Can you say “Utility”? These guys have all three gathering skills (yay for Gathering-whore Survivalists!), can fight in front or back (they have long-range weapons but have the stamina for the front line), give increased pre-emptive attack for your party and lower the enemy’s chance of ambushes (getting ambushed late in the game can be fatal), are fast as hell, have speed buffs and can allow any party member to go first (even those slow-ass Alchemists), have a handful of decent debuffs (Trickery is good if you run Medic-less, like I did), have a strong multi-target attack in Multishot, AND get the strongest piercing attack in the game - Apollon. The only flaw with them is that they lack anything absolutely vital like the above three classes.

LANDSCHNECKT - Excellent front-line fighter. Sword-Scneckts are better since they get Allslash, which is the most useful multi-target attack in the game. Sword specialty also gives elemental “chaser” attacks, which follow an elemental attack from another party member, making them a good pairing with an Alchemist. They’ve got the second-highest defense in the game, too. Reliable all around.

ALCHEMIST - Kind of in a limbo between B and C tiers, honestly. Poison is the FOE killer early in the game, though you don’t want it later on. Their elemental attacks get through those physical-resistant monsters the rest of the party may struggle against. Their overall single-target damage is quite high, especially if you nail an elemental weakness. In addition to being extremely frail and slow (their formulas almost always go last), they don’t always pull their own weight against most mobs; they’re a bit too specialized, and thus, not as overall reliable as a Survivalist or Landschneckt.

HEXER - Their status afflictions have the highest base accuracy and last longer than anyone else’s. Still, a bit too specialized, much like the Alchemist, and outside of Revenge, they’re lacking in damage.

RONIN - Highest single-target damage in the game, but a lot of their attacks require stances, and that takes a turn to use (thus, they’re slow). Most characters are capable of dishing out high damage to a single target. Plus, they’ve got fairly low defense for a front-line basher.

DARK HUNTER - Whip hunters require a Hexer to be useful; Ecstacy’s not going to work unless you get all those binds on your target. Sword hunters fair a bit better; They’ve got fast specials in Nerve and Hypnos, and they can steal HP with Drain. Still, outside of Bait (which is situational), their damage output is less than most. They have some nifty abilities, but they simply don’t bring enough to the party to warrant a spot in your party most of the time.

After a few weeks, I’ll be posting EO2 tiers.

1131

Ah I see.

Well I can’t believe I’m trying to help out Miranda’s status (I don’t like her character xD) but early on I tend to toss out magic attack items with Meru and Shana to utilise their magic stat potential. Magic tends to deal more damage than additions, at least early on anyway since they can be used off the bat whereas additions have to be built up first.

1132

You deserve a medal for slogging through that piece of crap. That game totally sucked from the non-plot to the frustrating difficulty (that damn Meadow of Death on the first floor) all the way to the fact that the player had to draw their own damn maps. :tdown:

1133

What? I really liked it. It was advertised as an old-school dungeon crawler from the get-go and never tried to make itself more than that. Granted, I had long pauses throughout various points in the game, and I didn’t make it through the post game (I ‘retired’ my characters and while I was working my way back up to Level 70, EO2 was advertised, so…), but I still had a heck of a time. Hell, did you notice that I said I’d put EO2 tiers up soon? That’s right; I have the sequel.

I was the only one at the GameStop nearest me to reserve Etrian Odyssey, and I was the only one to preorder the second one, too.

The Meadow of Death is back, but this time, the Venomflies attack if you DON’T rest. Buwhahahaha! Heck, the Crawlers on the first floor (regular enemy, by the way) can one-shot any first-level character in the front line. And yes, the FOEs are still bastards.

Guess I’m a masochist, since I enjoy games that aren’t afraid to kick a player’s ass; you don’t see too many of that nowadays. Sorry you didn’t like the game, though.

1134

Quick tier for The World Ends with You partners

  1. Joshua
  2. Shiki
  3. Beat

Josh - Capable of dealing a fair amount of damage and can stun enemies with his camera. Hits multiple enemies with each finisher. Spamming top screen attacks leads to fusion more easily than the others, so it’s easier to win even when playing sloppily.

Shiki - Easy to use fusion attacks but can sometimes be annoying at higher difficulties due to the increased number of possible ESP cards. Starts out with high Bravery so getting good threads for her isn’t hard at all.

Beat - One of the toughest ways to earn Fusion, though done correctly can give you a TON of stars. Very difficult to finish a combo with him because his finisher is SLOW. Turnaround attacks are awesome, though. Can attack grounded enemies in the air. Low Bravery limits his thread selection unless you spend the money or quest items on the right food.

I would do a pin tier list but that would take FOREVER. I may do a psych tier, though.

1135

Anyone have a solid tier list for the Xenosaga games? I think the tiers for XS1 were

Top
chaos
KOS-Mos

Mid
Jr
Shion (with Erde Kaiser)
Momo

Low
Shion (no Erde Kaiser)
Ziggy

I’m getting ready to play XS2, although a coworker told me chaos was nerfed to hell in XS2.

My beef with the Meadow of Death was that I felt the game tricked the player to kill them. If the Venomflies make a habit of devouring adventurers who rest (and who wouldn’t, after fighting through all those monsters to get there), how come there was no blood or bones in the Meadow of Death? I like challenge, but felt the game went way too far with it. Then again, I guess its understandable since I imagine cartographers can’t fight to save their lives.
Etrian Odyssey isn’t the worst game on the DS. The (dis)honor would go to Tao’s Adventure, although Lunar: Dragon Song and Lunar Knights are strong contenders for worst DS game as well.

1136

I think I’ll tier the weapons in Metroid Prime. Keep in mind that I tier the Beam Combos separately from their respective Beams due to the typically different applications of, say, the Power Beam vs. the Super Missile.

Top Tier
Missile Launcher: With the rapid-fire technique, missiles become one of the most dangerous weapons in the game, capable of dealing absurd amounts of damage in very little time. They make short work of most bosses and almost all enemies, save for the ones who can only be hurt by the Wave Beam.

Plasma Beam: I originally had this sucker in middle tier. However, intense re-evaluation has determined that it deserves better than that, and I’m going to give it the limelight it’s owed. For starters, it is very, very powerful, even more so than the Wave Beam or the Ice Beam before it. It doesn’t do Missile-caliber damage, though, which is good, because if it did, there would be no use for Missiles at all. But back to the Plasma Beam. In addition to its power, the Plasma Beam fires faster than the Wave Beam or the Ice Beam. Actually, if timed, the fastest rate of fire for the Plasma Beam is the tempo of “Paint It Black” by the Stones. Trippy. But I digress. Its power, speed, and sleek look are all phenomenal. When it all boils down to it, the Plasma Beam is the best mundane weapon in the game.

Upper Tier
Super Missile: It burns less ammunition than the other Beam combos, and is arguably the most useful one of the four. Its astounding homing capabilites combined with its sheer power make it a devastating weapon against most enemies, but its low rate of fire keep it from the top tier.

Power Bomb: I love these things. They can be used to blaze a trail for you when surrounded by hordes of small enemies, and nothing(but NOTHING) makes me feel more badass than using a Power Bomb on a swarm of Scarabs and saying to myself “I am become death, destroyer of worlds…”

Wave Beam: This weapon is awesome. It stuns when charged, it’s nice and powerful, it fires about as fast as rapid-fired missiles do, and when you take the homing factor into account, it gets pretty kah-ray-zee.

Middle Tier

Power Beam: Can’t go wrong with ol’ reliable. The fastest rate of fire in the game(aside from the Wavebuster), combined with the speed at which the shots travel, make this a very dependable weapon, ESPECIALLY when dealing with swarms of Scarabs, Parasites, or Beetles. It’s only middle tier because it’s weak.

Wavebuster: Say what you want about this weapon, but DAMN it looks cool. It reminds me of a mixture of Cable’s Hyper Viper Beam and the Proton Pack from Ghostbusters. It is, to me, the game’s most aesthetically pleasing weapon, but let’s get the facts about it. It’s not very powerful against most enemies, and it eats your Missile ammo FAST. However, when dealing with a horde of Wave Pirates, this becomes your best bet, and it also instant-kills the groundbound Meta Ridley. These two things alone keep it from the low or bottom tier.
…Also, it looks really, really cool. Did I say that already?

Low Tier:

Ice Beam: It has the same problem that the Plasma Beam does, but much worse. It fires very slowly, and the shot itself moves like chilled molasses. It’s invaluable when you’re dealing with enemies such as Metroids and those irritating electro-fish whose names I forgot, but there’s no ignoring the Ice Beam’s glaring flaw. Slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.

Ice Spreader: Same problem as the Ice Beam. Not much to say here. It is a little better than its mundane counterpart due to its sheer power, but at the same time…runs in place You’re too slow~!

Bottom Tier:
Morph Ball Bomb: I’m judging this thing as a weapon ONLY, in which case it’s completely useless against all enemies except for the Triclops. I sometimes wish that the Morph Ball Bombs were as good in this game as they are in Hunters. Bouncing off of ground-based enemies after tackling them with a boost would be so epic with Prime’s stellar graphics.

Flamethrower: I’m guessing that the Chozo invented this weapon for their barbecues, because it can’t kill fucking ANYTHING. It’s weaker than hell, its range is inferior to Halo’s Energy Sword, and it burns ammo even faster than the Wavebuster. Plus it doesn’t look cool. The Flamethrower sucks. Can anyone tell me a practical use for this overgrown cigarette lighter? I’m fucking stumped.

1137

Yep, that list seems about right. And chaos was nefred to unholy hell.

Episode 2 Tiers are so fucked up because of the Break, Air, and Down effects and Ether Affilations. These four things are what makes and break a character’s usefulness and place in the tier standings. The one thing the top 4 characters have in common is they are not affiliated with an ether element. And that is the difference between a character you use a lot and a character you don’t use as much.

The only 2 constants in the whole game are KOS-MOS and Jin. Not only for raw power output they have no affiliation to an ether element. So with or without an Ether Sword cast they still put damage out in battle constantly. But the balance to KOS-MOS and Jin is they can only Air enemies but they can hit enemies Aired or Downed. Everybody else is broken down to what is going on with the enemy at the given moment. Which makes MOMO the most broken character in the game. Give that lil loli the right setup and she is dangerous as fuck.

Jr with the right Ether Sword falls right in line after MOMO. But he can still put on the hurt normally as well. Shion is still mid with or without Erde Kaiser. chaos falls right about here for one reason. He can’t hit enemies in the air. He’s still beastly, but that one flaw drops him in the tier standings. And Ziggy just as useless as ever. Power yes, usefulness hell to the naw. But Ziggy does have one important use as does chaos. They are the only characters who Down their enemies. Yes, you can Air a character and they become Downed but there are a couple of boss fights where you can only Down that enemy. So choosing what character to use in that situation depends on who your fighting to take full tactical advantage of the current situation. So here’s how Episode 2 tiers stack up. By the way these tiers do not take into consideration the skills that can be equipped to a character. But it doesn’t really matter because everyone has access to the same abilities. Boosts usefulness but does not shake up the tiers at all.

Tiers

Top
MOMO in Broken Little Angel Mode (Correct Sword Ether, Combo Extender Mode)
Jin
KOS-MOS

Mid
Jr
chaos
MOMO (Normal Circumstances)
Shion

Low
Ziggy

Episode 3 tiers on the way.

1138

If I remember correctly, that’s the only time in the game you get hit by something like that. They don’t pull any more “Oh look! A spot to rest!” stuff past the first stratum.

Lunar Knights was fun (but kinda short). Can’t disagree about the other two, though (never played Dragon Song, and have no desire to either from what I’ve watched and read).

1139

EO isn’t all that bad, it’s just kinda brutal until you figure out how to survive.

As for the tiers posted…
I don’t feel like Defender is all that great, Immunize is MORE than enough defense for the entire main game, and Protectors are only really there for Anti-(element) in the post-game. Until then, Protectors are kind of a waste of space, IMHO. Immunize just makes them pointless except for killing the three superboss dragons, in which case they’re a necessity for ONE SKILL.

IMHO it goes more like
S:
-Medic- Immunize. Salve2 is pretty boss as well. Cure2 is good enough. Caduceus is pretty sweet, battle Medic is probably the most useful build in the game really. Other skills aren’t worth mentioning, but I will- Cure3 is pointless, Revive is pointless.

A:
-Troubadour- Relaxing, mostly, with a touch of Bravery. Immunize/Relaxing/Bravery is probably the most common buff set you’ll run around with in anything that isn’t a post-game-dragon-boss fight. Makes you level faster as well. Erasure is great as well.
-Survivalist- too much utility to pass up. Great passives (increase preempt/decrease surprise mostly), fast with good damage, great for emergency item use… and you’ll be using items fairly frequently. 1st Hit is too good as well.

B:
-Landsknecht- durable, best dedicated damage dealer. Allslash, Chasers, and Crush are all brutal skills to have on hand. Lacking in any other kind of utility, though. Hybrid LS is a good party member to have on hand though.
-Protector- anti-(element) is too good for those boss fights to drop this guy lower. Not a bad class but suffers from not dishing out quite enough damage and Immunize being too good. Just doesn’t really have a place for a lot of the game, though it’s a decent enough class that doesn’t screw up your party composition too much.

C:
-Alchemist- great damage and usually don’t get screwed by resistances, a bit squishy and really slow, though. Usefulness tapers off as your damage output from other sources gets better, since other classes are faster and hit as hard for less TP.
-Dark Hunter- binds are great for some fights. Most damaging class in the game if you can ever set up an Ecstasy too, though really DH is mostly for binds/debuff + okay damage output.
-Ronin- damage is great… kinda. The problem isn’t that you give up a turn for a stance (boss fights typically last long enough to make up for that, and Ronin is okay in normal fights without stance). The problem is that stances use up a buff slot, and you’re already pretty crowded with Immunize/Relaxing on ALL THE TIME in a boss fight. You can probably get by skipping Bravery with Ronin but why? Still, if you get past all that, Ronin is a pretty decent class.

D:
-Hexer- debuffs are cool but between how stupid Medic/Troubadour buffs are and how easy it is to wipe away enemy buffs with Erasure… what’s the point? If Hexers could do more damage when they weren’t dropping debuffs, they’d be about as good as a DH.

1140

I may be hyping them up since I ran without a medic (Went PDLSA) through the game, and Defender + their guard abilities tend to save you from dying (damage prevention is key without a dedicated healer). They become necessary if you’re nuts like me, but I can’t argue against them being B tier (no lower than that, though).

Just got a call from Gamestop saying my preorder for Etrian Odyssey II is here. Pure hilarity, since I’ve had it since Saturday. :bgrin:

I haven’t gotten through the first stratum in EO2, but status attacks seem to have more attention now – several classes (Protector, Dark Hunter, Gunner) get status-removal, and status attacks are also spread out among more characters (War Magus can add status attacks to a target already affected by one, Gunners get a lot of status attacks, Survivalists now can inflict Sleep, Poison, and Paralysis). Here are some thoughts on who I’ve used:

War Magus - Nifty class. They get up to Cure 3 and Salve 2, so they can fill in as a dedicated healer instead of a Medic. They also have single-target buffs. As stated before, their Sword-skill line can add status inflictions upon status inflictions, though I’m not sure how easy it is to balance the healer/buffer side with the offensive side.

Gunner - They hit elements, and they can cause status elements. Not sure how they compare to those who are dedicated in those aspects.

Dark Hunter - Least changed class in the game, though it looks like Whip hunters are considerably better this time: They’ve got help in status ailments since War Magi and Gunners can apply binds, Bait and the new Magibait can be used with either whip or sword (though you have to dedicated a lot of points in both Swords and Whip to get them), and their Force skill Dominate applies ALL bindings to a single target – Sets up Ecstasy well. They also have status-resistance passives, though I have yet to get them. And to add icing on the cake, they can master Viper by Level 4, allowing them to deal around 130 poison damage a turn. Not too shabby. They have Chop instead of Take this time, oddly enough.

Protectors - A lot worse, from the looks of it. They don’t even have initially high strength anymore and they lost Defender. Might have to use them as a Provoker.

Ronin - NO STANCE CHANGES! YAY! They hit HARD.

Alchemist - More TP plz. Eschaton = BOOM!

Landsknecht - Allslash is obtained earlier, and Axe users can now use the chasers, though they have to have Sword and Axe skills to do so.

Survivalist - They have access to Sleep, Poison, and Paralysis attacks this time around. They lost Trickery, though, and I’m not sure if their bow skills are as good.