Tiers for non-fighting games?

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
901

LOL make up your mind, will you? So infinites suck because they don’t work on bosses. And being able to infinite normal enemies doesn’t mean jack… You made it seem like the normal enemies are worthless so infinites are pointless, and you can’t use infinites on bosses, so what’s the point, right?

Then in your next post, you say that being able to infinite bosses is shit (seeing as how you thought that you couldn’t infinite bosses in the first place, how would you know? :slight_smile: . and that getting through the normal enemies is what’s hard? Uhh don’t infinites figure into the picture there somehow? Your second post contradicts what you were implying in your previous post. :confused: So Uhh… make up your f-ing mind? pls?:confused:

infinites are more CONSISTENT and effective than most anything else against bosses and all enemies but fabios. The fact that you have to do all that shit with Blaze to be effective, yet with Shiva you need A LOT LESS EFFORT (understatement of the century) to get similar but faster and more consistent results should prove something.

ephidel, Mona Lisa aren’t even hard, and even on higher difficulty levels they have few lifebars. you can even herd them together to flurry both of them simultaneously. Infinites DO work on jet, you just have to start it right; and with the right placement, his cronies can’t touch you (easier said than done, admittedly). The only thing Blaze does more efficiently and consistently is killing Fabios. So… … if Fabios are the dealmaker for you guys, then have it your way. (PS everything I’ve posted refers to single-player mode…)

902

I know Shiva is good once you time his infinite. I just hate the fact that he can’t seem to grapple very well and can’t use a weapon. Maybe it’s just me (or because we can’t see his stats) but his Technique has gotta be a 1 star. Sometimes Garcia would drop a weapon, then Donovan drops a pipe like right near it - then when mashing that punch button pwning scrubs shiva picks up the weapon (but since he can’t use weapons, he is hindered to attacks)

Mona/Lisa - Well not for Shiva because he has very good reach. Still, for what it’s worth…I’m not using my continue to select this guy - not unless push comes to shove. And by then, I’m all the way damn near the end of the game alone with Blaze.

903

I didn’t contradict myself at all.

A contradiction would have been me saying infinites don’t mean anything and then saying they are good for w/e reason.

All I said was that getting through waves of regular enemies is what makes the game harder.

How is that a contradiction?

Blaze doesn’t need a standard infinite simply because she wrecks groups so hard.

Plus like I said, she can repeatedly back throw an enemy, so this counts as a throw infinite. It’s inescapble, therefore it’s an infinite IMO. Maybe not one in the conventional sense, but the same concept is present.

How can Shiva be better then Blaze when she is better then him in everyway?

So he has an infinite that really doesn’t mean much since it can only be abused on one enemy or if more enemies happen to get hit by it? And Shiva is much more limited as a character. Only one throw and no back throw. Only one special and no blitz and he is the better character?

That is a joke.

Also Blaze wrecks bosses really hard too with no effort as well.

Spam jump kicks and upgraded blitz and her basic combo.

How is that hard or requiring more effort?

I think timing an infinite would take alot more effort.

The only thing you could convince me of is that they are equal which is a stretch since Blaze is superior in every way.

Shiva isn’t even a fully fleshed out character.

904

Some of your info is just plain wrong.

Shiva’s infinite requires NO TIMING WHATSOEVER. Do you realize how easy it is to infinite with him? You just mash one button for crying out loud.

Shiva HAS a backthrow not a regular throw. FYI it does 2 points less damage than Blaze’s strongest throw. Also, although not a throw, Shiva can actually do more damage than any other character from a grapple thanks to his standing special (which also acts as a forward special) seeing as how you can’t forward special from grapples in SOR3.

Shiva’s special also does MORE damage than Blaze’s level 3 blitz. It serves as his offensive and defensive special AND his blitz. It kills blockers just fine, and is the strongest combo finisher in the game. It has ridiculous invincibility frames as well

What makes you think that Shiva’s infinite is no good for groups? IT FUCKING OWNS GROUPS. You start with a jab to stun every enemy in front of you (Shiva has the BEST jab in the game) and then followup with elbows. Most of the time stray enemies WILL walk in front of you (regardless of difficulty level) only to get stunned and subsequently elbowed to death along with their friends. When an enemy walks behind you, you finish off the group you were elbowing with a Special (which is stronger than any of Blaze’s moves btw) which makes Shiva invulnerable… then you simply turn around (it actually helps that Shiva’s special doesn’t move him forward much) and jab then infinite the enemies behind you. Yes, it’s that simple, it’s not like the AI is brilliant in this game; like in most (if not all) 2d beatemups of this era enemies only attack you from the front or back obviously…

LOL, seriously, please don’t compare Shiva’s infinite to Blaze’s backthrow infinite. Just because they both can be called “infinites” doesn’t make them equal in the least bit. You don’t seem to have much experience with Shiva’s infinite seeing as how you 1) thought it couldn’t be used against bosses 2) thought it requires TIMING (of all things…) 3) thought it sucks against groups

Spamming jump kicks, upgraded blitz and regular combos… compared to jabbing once and then pressing B,B,Z,Z until a boss is dead is comparable? :rolleyes:

And what makes you think that having more moves makes a character better?

Variety means jackshit. Having more moves means jackshit. I know that Shiva is an incomplete character and it pisses me off , considering that with a little more programming he could’ve at least had a different neutral special (with that rotating flame kick). But none of that is relevant to how effective a character is. Anyway, this is my last post about SOR3 (which is my least favorite game in the series) so have your last word , and lets just agree to disagree.

905

Spamming jump kicks is the easiest thing in the world.

All you have to do with Blaze is that and run in for grabs or a basic combo depending on the boss.

Also requires little to no effort.

Basically what I see here is two characters that require very little effort to rape with.

But Shiva lacks alot of things. So to me, that makes him below Blaze. And I wasn’t the only one who said that Shiva was lower. Everyone in this thread that posted a tier list on SoR3 put him lower then Blaze. So I think that means something.

Also you make it seem like you will ALWAYS be able to stop enemies from getting to Shiva’s back.

Does he even have a back attack?

He won’t always be able to stop from getting gangbanged.

Anyway, as I said. I know they both require minimal effort. B?ut overall Blaze is the best. Best attributes and moves. Yeah, Shiva’s infinite makes him beast, but he lacks too many useful moves, that would have mad him more beastly.

906

His elbow IS his back attack. Hence why it’s spammable.

Blaze ftw.

907

Been playing some genesis lately… the genesis just owns snes when it comes to beatem ups… fuckin snes with its slowdowns and 2 enemies on screen BS.:rofl:

Streets of Rage 2

  1. Axel - Grand upper. nuf said.

  2. Max - a VERY close second. Greatest throw character in a beatem up ever. One of the godliest beatemup chars ever… but just isn’t as consistent as axel is with his grand upper.

  3. Skate - Severely underrated and usually misunderstood. Probably the best crowd clearer in the game. Vault throw fucks up groups like no other. Skate’s fast movement speed let’s him vertical/diagonal walk to get grapples easier than others in order to utilize his great throws. Dash lets him get guaranteed grapples off of far jabs. Abuse his fast walking and vault throws to waste crowds then use migraine or roller upper for big damage on stragglers. roller press for ridiculous wakeup dmg and free migraines… He ain’t a combo character; he’s a grappler, one who happens to be fast as fuck. I daresay he’s overpowered… Just not as overpowered as axel and max.

  4. Blaze - Sega seems to have a love-hate relationship with her… She’s easily the best char in SoR1 (fastest movement, longest jab, infinite grapple knees) but they made her normal (while making gods of the others) in SoR2, then they greatly improved her in SoR3 (while weakening axel AND skate (both of whom were overpowered in part 2)). Anyway, she’s a good character; but she’s just not overpowered like the other three. she has the lowest damage output; there’s simply no way that she matches any of the other three’s damage even w/ her fireball… she’s a great conventional beatemup character, just not top tier like the others

Golden Axe III

  1. Panther - B+C hits both ways, has crazy priority, very good reach, and invincibility frames. You can beat the entire game with this move alone - and its one of the best moves for regular enemies (as this game’s enemy AI pincer-attack you a lot). His charging special move is also ridiculously good. UBLOCKABLE, great reach, great damage. Lets him kill the last boss without taking a scratch (except for the spells of course). Great movement speed as well.

  2. Sarah (Tyris lookalike) - Forward+B+C is an awesome move. Very fast. some invincibility frames. AND HUGE damage. Forward+B+C moves are the strongest in the game, and Sarah’s is fast enough to be abuseable. None of her other moves are noteworthy imo… That move is all she needs (until the last boss), it’s like GA3’s SoR2 grand upper

  3. Ax Battler lookalike - Excellent reach. Solid moves. Jump, DF+atk is very good… No weaknesses, but no abuseable crap like Sarah’s Fwd+BC or the panther’s two gamebreaking moves

  4. The big guy - sucks.

TMNT: Hyperstone Heist

Top - Raphael - Best damage dealer in the game. The genesis version has the dash button. Let’s you easily combo shoulder tackles. 2 shoulder tackles for a kill with Raph (while it’s 3-4 with others). Also means Raph can take down bosses the fastest since you only get a certain amount of hits on them before they get temporarily invulnerable. Stamina sucks. but fast movement speed rocks.

Mid - Ehh… dunno. I just know that Raph owns the rest. I always thought Leo was great in the SNES version (great balance of stamina and speed; and the multi-slam throws were broken so you could ignore weapon strength) but the slam throws are weak in the Genesis version…

908

Sailor Moon. the genesis version is actually pretty good… much better than the snes versions imo

Top
Sailor Mars - Good damage off of her regular combo, which means the fastest kills from infinites (the type that leaves out just the last hit; not lame jab x 1,000,000). Best Special (d,f,u+atk), it hits twice for nice damage. decent jab.

Middle
Sailor Moon - Can infinite. Low damage from regular combo so slow infinite damage. Special (d,u,d,u+atk) is pretty good; can hit twice (only upclose) and hits both sides. crappy jab.

Sailor (Blue haired one) - Can infinite. Similar to sailor moon. just a less useful special (d,f,d,f+atk).

Lower
Jupiter - Can’t infinite. good reach though.

Sailor Saturn (whip girl) - Can’t infinite. Huge damage from throw special. Whip knocks down and is weak

Why am I stressing infinites so much? Give hard mode a try :slight_smile:

909

Golden Axe GEN Tiers

Top

Gillrus Thunderhead - This guy owns. His only flaw his that his magic isn’t that strong, but he does need to rely on it as much. His ram move hits opponents edging off the screen, and his axe has incredible reach. Timing the distance between the edge of the axe and the opponent, you might be able to pull off his infinite :rofl: but it’s easier said than done.

Mid

Tyris Flare - Her selling point is the number of magic spaces she has, which is the highest in the game. Although she is the best magic user, she doesn’t fight as well as the wizard (although her kick can hit edging enemies off the screen) Beside you’ll want to summon her dragon everytime anyway, and that’s tough to build upon. Doesn’t have great reach…

Low

Ax Battler - Not a great fighter, his ram cannot hit edging enemies. His sword has pathetic reach (although I can probably milk it more than the girl, but don’t hold your breath) and his magic is eh. It’s ok, just nothing to get excited about.

910

Team Fortress 2- Tiers for 2Fort

God Tier

  • Engineer: Any team on this stage without an Engineer loses for free, period. Sentries are the ultimate Intel defenders, especially since a Resupply isn’t too far away. There are many good places to hide Teleport devices and Sentries, should you want to be agressive
  • Soldier: The rocket jump can be used to let them sneak into the enemy base or even spawn points to camp and kill people before they can get to the field. Cheap move that’s effective, but will piss people off. They can fight Sentries easily

Top Tier

  • Demoman: Almost as integral as Soldiers, but they have a lot lower health and have a tougher time fighting foes due to their somewhat crippling weapon selection. Key for fighting Sentries the Soldier or Spy can’t reach. They can also spawn camp like the Soldier, but they use up ammo more quickly doing so and have a hard time defending themselves if someone gets the drop on them
  • Medic: The Medic is always an important class to have in this game. Their Invulns and healing will come in handy, especially to protect a Soldier or Demoman fighting against Sentries or mobs
  • Scout: They’re good for base rushing and fighting enemy Snipers. They lose for free in hallways though due to decreased maneuverability.

Mid Tier

  • Spy: They can easily kick the hell out of Sentries and Snipers in any stage, but especially in 2Fort. Spies suffer in small hallways because if they bump into people, they become exposed. Expect people to greet you with a whack from a melee weapon just to check for your legitimacy (fucking metagamers :arazz:)

Low Tier

  • Heavy: The Heavy is too slow for this stage generally. They die to Snipers and Spies way too easily and they run out of ammo quickly since 2Fort is a small stage. They are nearly unstoppable if a working teleporter is handy and they’re working with a Medic. These guys can easily lock down a hallway or the bridge, assuming there’s a Dispenser nearby or they have ample backup.
  • Sniper: The only good sniping position is overlooking the bridge in the middle and very rarely will anything but a Scout bother with the bridge for that reason. As always, they’re Spy bait. They can be decent backup for defensive Engineers.

Nearly Useless Tier

  • Pyro: The flamethrower sucks for the most part in this stage due to the hella big pool in the middle of the stage and the commonplace nature of Resupply points and Health packs. They are completely helpless against long range fighters. Their only real use is being Spy-meta.
911

I’ll try from top to bottom on Magic The Gathering non-online game (although I’m assuming that online is the same as offline but online)

  1. Discard/Burn decks
  2. Counter/Card Drawing/Control decks
  3. Creature decks
  4. Life gaining decks
912

I can’t say I agree with much of this. Scouts are useful for about the first spawn, then theres likely 3 sentries in your way and you aren’t getting anywhere. Heavies are perfect for defense, can act as a smarter sentry gun, especially if you have an engineer setup a dispenser (infinite bullets along the hallways stops spys pretty quick)

Pryos can take out sentries that are close to corners by edging along, and theres not much the engineer can do about it. Also, from my experience, only maybe 20% of the fighting in 2fort is done in the open, and its not hard to avoid it as a pyro.

Demomen are definately top on 2fort, as they are your main way of screwing over engineers. They are really the only practical way to break a base short of a pyro or heavy with ubercharge.

I’d say something like:
A++
Engineer
Demoman
Medic
A
Soldier
Heavy
Spy
B
Pyro
C
Sniper
D-
Scout (maybe B for first spawn)

Of course, this is for a full 24 person server, it varies a lot depending on server size, but I dont play on small servers because I dont like the way the game balance works out as much.

Is this for a particular format? Because magic decks depend a lot on what format you are in. From my experience, and in general, control decks would be #1, whatever combo deck is rampant at the time would be #2, and creature beatdown decks would be #3, with a bunch of random straglers. But again, this depends A LOT on the format (look at invasion block constructed, its a lot of fires beatdown, a creature/combo deck hybrid, while urzas block constructed is all combo decks (at least before card bannings, I don’t remember what the format turned to after stuff was banned), and masks block was mostly control from what I remember.)

Edit: Of course then theres stuff like the Sharazard deck in arabian nights block, that shit was comedy. Nothing like having an entire block of rules in the official rulebook to deal with one card. Not to mention the rule that if you can’t draw your opening hand, you lose the game.

913

Max and Axel are both god.

Max tears through blocking bosses and messes up crowds.

Axel is better on bosses that are hard to grab.

But spamming grand upper will get him murdered in large crowrds on maniac.

Actually Blaze is as good as Axel in terms of stats and has better reach, but her vertical slash sucks so she goes down.

I really don’t think Blaze is worse then Skate. I think they are equal.

914

I can imagine that your list would be tops for the PC version of 2Fort, but my list is pretty much accurate for the XBox 360 version since it has a 16 player cap (which is hardly ever reached). A lot of teams will often only have 1 or 2 Engineers due to Spies, Soldiers, and Demomen being able to whip up on Sentries like you mentioned. With that said, on the Xbox version, Soldiers are a little better then Demomen because with the lower player pool, the Rocket Jump allows the Soldier to sneak into the base and take out Sentries a lot more easily.

Scouts equal a free capture at the start like you said, but they can also be used to take out slower units like the Heavy or Soldiers and the Scattergun rips people to shreds in hallways. Scouts are often a great diversionary unit because people tend to go after Scouts due to their speed and people being too dumb to bust out their melee weapons against them since the baseball bat is the Scout’s best weapon.

915

Unlike 3, Skate’s drill special comes in handy. He lost the ability to do this in 3…but in 2 where the damage isn’t at a low ratio he becomes more durable. He still has no reach, so on harder levels expect him to be surrounded easily. There’s a hellva lot more enemies in 2 than 3 that can do more stuff, so that’s not a good thing.

Blaze got nerfed in 2, she had better technique and jump in one out of adam and axel (which should of been 3 stars) Her power is about right at 2, and her Stamina should of been a 1 star. Her speed, at least I believe, should of been 3 stars (not taking anything away from skate) It would seem that everytime a new SoR would come out the last best character would get the nerf, thank god Max isn’t in 3. :smile:

916

True. I would’ve hated seeing Max in SoR3 because he would’ve been butchered beyond belief. Sega was so busy nerfing everyone’s throws that they forgot about Blaze and left hers at SoR2-strength (/conjecture:wgrin:), which in SoR3 turns out to be the best. After seeing how raped Skate’s throws were in SoR3 (migraine and rolling upper:sad: and even the distance on vault throws) I don’t even wanna THINK about what they(sega/ancient/whatever) would’ve done to max’s atomic drop… So, I’m perfectly satisfied seeing Max in only one game because that makes that game even more special and unique (SoR2 is my favorite game of all time).

Personally, I don’t think the stats that are shown in the character select screen are all that accurate and shouldn’t be taken into serious consideration.

For instance, in part 1 Blaze and Axel have the same stat for Speed, but Blaze is faster. Also Blaze has a B in power yet she does equal damage for everything except for jumpkicks (although she has an A in jump) and back attacks.

In part 2, axel and blaze have the same stat in speed, but Blaze is faster (otoh she’s slower than skate so giving her 3 stars would’ve been equally wrong). Also, Skate has a lower power stat than Blaze, but outside of his regular combo (which sucks and should never be finished), neutral special, and grapple forward+atk, he actually has more damaging moves than blaze in total. Axel has one star in Jump, but imo his jump attacks are pretty solid. Likewise Max’s downward elbow just rapes… so if the jump stat just determines jump height and distance (and not the effectiveness of jump ATTACKS), then it’s useless seeing as how this isn’t a platformer and because max and axel have great jumping moves. Blaze and Axel have equal power but we all know that’s boosheet:rolleyes:. Also, after more than a decade of playing SoR2 I still don’t know what stamina does (if it does ANYTHING at all) seeing as how the chars take the same damage from enemies. Furthermore, Max should have a 10 in power…:wgrin:

As for part 3 the stats are even more of a mess. First of all, everyone had equal number of stars in the Japanese version, but in the US version Blaze got extra points in stats. Maybe this was because some of her moves got beefed up, or it was to more accurately describe her abilities in comparison to the other characters, or perhaps this was Sega of America’s pussy-ass politically-correct move for sexual equality in videogames (they also changed her clothes color to a NEUTRAL white, instead of the sexy red in BK3).

917

The US version buffed her in favor of political correctness.

Whatever the fuck that means.

918

I’m gonna give this one a try.

Plasmids (considering the best form of the plasmid):

Top

Electro Bolt - Stuns for an age, and makes killing both Daddies and Splicers easy.
Incinerate - Huge damage and can disable splicers temporarily.
Hypnotize Big Daddy - Useful against multiple enemies, and especially useful against other Big Daddies. After one kills the other, you can betray the weakened ally.

Mid

Insect Swarm - Low damage but can disable enemies momentarily.
Security Bullseye - Helpful with Big Daddies, but situational.
Winter Blast - A more costly, weaker, loot-eliminating Electro Bolt.
Target Dummy - Useless in one on ones, but can be very helpful against Big Daddies.

Bottom

Cyclone Trap - Very situational low damage with minimal effect. Only works on splicers. (?)
Telekinesis - Useful only for loot gathering and plot necessities.
Enrage - Situational. Minimally effective. Terrible plasmid.

Weapons:

Top

Crossbow - HUGE damage, usually a one hit kill on splicers. Trap bolts make killing Bid Daddies EASY.
Chemical Thrower - Big damage all round. Electro rapes Big Daddies, and Napalm cooks (pun VERY much intended) everything else.
Grenade Launcher - HUGE damage along with proximity mines makes this a clear choice for Top.

Mid

Shotgun - Electro helps with shanking Daddies.

Low

Tommy Gun - Good damage and good clip size. An alright weapon.
Pistol - Headshots save this weapon.

Bottom

Wrench - Generally low damage, but the one-two punch early on is quite helpful.

Thoughts?

919

Yea, I’ll buy that. The different control schemes and the different numbers of players would make a huge difference.

920

Yeah I know not to take the character select ranks seriously, I wanted to use it as an provided example prior to my own experiences with character. Playing this game again (:stuck_out_tongue: SoR2) and you’re right about Blaze not having 3 stars in speed, however you can tell that she is still slighty faster than Axel. So I would imagine it should of went:

Power **
Speed **
Technique ***
Jump ***
Stamina *

The conclusion is emphasized upon playing the character more and more. Technique for her usage of weapons (only character who can double/triple knife stab) and her jump (which has the longest kick reach)

Stamina determines the damage ratio the character dishes out. For instance, we all know all of Max’s moves hurt like hell, while somebody like Skate or Blaze struggle owning Donovan or Signal in one single combo. I say this because they all take in about the same damage ratio themselves (as you pointed out :D)