Tiers for non-fighting games?

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
781

Mana Storm becomes largely obsolete if you put Nell in Siren, as Siren’s basic spell does the same thing as Mana Storm for 1 skill bar.
Normal Nell builds up boost bar but who are you going to put that boost bar to use with if your team is some boost oriented team? You need a character to make that boost worthwhile. The problem with normal Nell is she has crap for damage.
Plus, boost mode only really matters in boss fights 'cuz most normal fights end in like 2 turns (Mana Storm/Siren spell, miscellaneous hit)

Luplus isn’t all that great a summon. You can probably kill most fights in the game before it makes significant difference, except for maybe the Shadow Stalker fight… but you wouldn’t have the Luplus summon for that one anyhow. There are plenty of better ways to put your skill bars to use, and none of those force you to wait a year before Iris gets to go again.

Jiptus Edge and Diemia Nell are pretty solid, really. Better than Thanatos and Faustus for their respective characters, at the very least. You really can only take one or the other for a team, though, since they really shine when you have someone like Plua/Normal Edge building bar for your team. Diemia does require some setup time, though (Mind’s Eye and all that).
As for “too slow,” Iris has several knockback attacks, your other character should have knockback attacks, you can add Quick/Delay to your gear…
Meanwhile, Plua just kinda does crap for damage until boost mode, then he does okay damage. A team of Iris, Plua Edge, normal Nell has quite possibly the worst boost mode damage output in the game, even if they’re in boost every rotation through the team order.

I don’t think Plua is very good at all (base damage output is atrocious till boost mode without elemental weakness). Plua Edge + Siren Nell is retarded good, but that’s more a function of Siren having really good skills, since Normal Edge/Siren Nell works really well if you occasionally have Iris tag in for battery purposes.
Same with normal Nell. Normal Nell sucks (bad damage output, armor isn’t super awesome either), but normal Nell + Jiptus Edge is pretty decent.
I personally think, as standalone outfits, Iris, normal Edge, and Siren Nell are good, and the rest are varying degrees of suck. But that’s like saying Wolverine is good 1on1 in MvC2.

Seriously though, Jiptus and Diemia ain’t that bad. I’m having trouble seeing how Thanatos is better than Jiptus except for like… fighting Shadow Stalker as soon as the fight is available.

The problem with tiering Atelier Iris 3 (or Atelier Iris games in general) is that they’re way too easy. So even if a character sucks, you can get by and even make them look pretty good just because of the game’s battle system. Like Thanatos Edge is utter crap but you can easily breeze through most fights with Thanatos Edge.

782

Tetrisphere

Top:
High strength characters (I.e: Stomp)
Low:
High Speed Characters

I don’t know about everyone else, but I do a lot carrying blocks than moving my cursor.

783

Anyone got any ideas on Puyo Pop Fever tiers? :sweat:

784

I think I’ll have to give Siren Nell more of a chance, I never did use her that much.

Eins Zecksclaw actually does decent damage (although for 3 skill charges). I keep burst for a long time because it does wonders for Normal Edge. I can’t think of a skill with a 1 skill gauge cost that can do well over 7000 damage (Chain Digger).

Luplus summon is all about timing. It’s best to cast when Nell and Edge’s turns are coming up and your burst gauge is nearly full. Have them fill the burst gauge and who cares that you’ve used 3 skill gauges, as you get it all back. It basically pays for itself anyways, because the extra turns you get to spend bursted will go back to your skill gauge, assuming anything survived. The only drawback is that Iris has to wait before acting again, but for most parties, Nell and Edge have better uses for the skill gauge, and Luplus is mainly to benefit them, not Iris.

I’m probably overrating Plua Edge because I subbed him in for normal Edge in the Shadow Stalker fight, when I couldn’t beat him with team “Normal”. I probably could’ve thought of a better party, but in any case, Plua Edge probably should be dropped a tier. He isn’t bottom tier though.

785

you aint ready, son? You really want that on your resume?

786

It’s not really a 1-skill-bar skill when you consider how you need to pump up the chain counter for it to really do damage… though it is a nice way to end your burst mode.

Blessed Weapon + Diemia summon glitch… D:

Anyhow, I think Plua Edge is fine as a support character, since he builds like a full bar every turn he gets (and with Quick + Speed(L) he gets a billion turns) which in turn means you can have Iris and Nell throwing out whatever the hell they want (like having 2 Kobold Heroes constantly active or something silly like that).

787

Random thought I had in law class:

United States Bill of Rights amendments tiers:

Top tier:

V: it’s like playing Guilty Gear with infinite burst. Counter!
I: because you can claim ANYTHING as freedom of expression.
X: Power to the peoples.

Upper-middle tier:

II: Yes, it says “militia,” but no one gives a damn, so buy a shotgun.
IV: Always good to protect your shit.
VIII: because “cruel and unusual” isn’t vague in the least.
IX: always good to have your bases covered.

Middle tier:

VI: good, but “speedy trial” has a rather forboding sound to it.
VII: twenty dollars? You can’t buy a candy bar with that much money.
Bottom tier:

III: the last time there were even a war on American soil was over 100 years ago.

788

X-Men: Mutant Apocalypse

Top Tier:
Psylocke
Wolverine

Mid-Tier:
Cyclops
Gambit

Bottom Tier:
Beast

789

I didn’t know Grolin/Crimson Disaster discussed such crazy shit as this. It me,Soma Bogard. I once thought Pula was going to break this game(AI3:GP) but once I got the Deus Ex,the fun was over.

790

Plua makes some of Nell’s outfits pretty darn scary (Siren in particular).

My only real issue with AI3 (well, other than it being really easy) is that the “hybrid” classes (Thanatos and Faustus) are pretty bad at being hybrids or at being useful at all. Faustus has a hilarious high-rate instant kill attack I guess. Not very good even with that.
The class balance overall isn’t too hot, but that’s more because some classes are awful more than some classes being really good. Most of the classes are incomplete and need another teammate to fill in the gaps, which is cool… except some classes don’t even do what they were designed to do very well.

791

Twisted Metal: Head On

This game actually had a really competitive online community for the first couple years following its release. I personally likened its gameplay to that of a good fighter.

Top

Axel
Spectre
Twister

High

Thumper
Mr. Slam
Sweet Tooth

Mid

Grasshopper
Mr. Grimm
Crimson
Hammerhead

Low

Shadow
Outlaw
Warthog

Bottom

Roadkill
ATV

792

I have beaten the game just using Claude excluding the occasional battle where they forced another character on you by the way. Its impossible to beat the game only using one character besides Claude and Rena because you’ll have to use at least one of them for a decent part of the game at least once in the game. Beating the game using all characters up to meeting Bowman and beating the rest of the game with him = not beating the game with only Bowman. Beating the game with only Claude up to meeting Bowman and then beating the rest of the game with Bowman = not beating the whole game with Bowman I base my tiers on how good the character is throughout the entire game, not just the end of the game, which is why that Celine spell you brought up isn’t a major factor. Equipment isn’t a huge factor with Opera and Precis. Their equipment is good enough that if someone were to keep dying based on their equipment, its not the equipment’s faults, its just that the person sucks at the game. I said Claude is a great character and that all fighters are at least decent. LOL. Broken Heart = I said all melee fighters are at least decent, so is Ernest. Dias lower tier? You’d put him on the same level as characters who when they fight melee average about a 15% damage output as Dias? If they cast their best spells besides the specialty spells they can get in the last dungeon, which is a very small part of the game, they would pause the entire battle for one hit that does no more than 9,999 hp? And usually less than that? Nah.

793

Tiers for Suikoden games…

God Tier - Suikoden 1 and Suikoden 2. 2 of the best rpgs ever made and about approximately 71 times better than the other 4 Suikodens that came after it combined.

Mid Tier - Suikoden 5, quality rpg, its shit compared to the first 2 but a great rpg nonetheless.

Mid Low Tier - Suikoden 3, when the series really started biting the dust. Don’t get me wrong, I think Suikoden 3 is a good game with a great battle system and gameplay but the story and characters are the most depressing experience I’ve had in a good game. The trinity system was very good and I like the innovative ideas they put to the test. But, the story and characters, its not Suikoden, has nothing to do with Suikoden, is a disgrace to Suikoden, and is the biggest abomination I’ve ever seen in the series. But, it does have the best gameplay.

Low tier - Suikoden 4 and Suikoden Tactics. You know what I do like both of these games. Suikoden 4 was just Konami being hesitant in their direction of Suikoden. The game is not bad, just average because they didn’t take any chances after the insane mixed reaction of Suikoden 3. Suikoden Tactics is a fun strat rpg based off of Suikoden 4 characters. They are both average/decent games. But, Suikoden had the potential to be the best rpg series ever. Not just average/decent games.

794

I like your tier listing for these games, Suikoden 1 and 2 where so beastly, although I just might have to “slightly” edge Suiko 2 over 1, just by a small shell. Suikoden 5 was a great game, Lady Arshtat had one of the coolest character designs imo for a Suikoden game + Jeane was damn hot in this version.

Overall, I like your Tier Listing though.

795

I agree with that list also, Suikoden 2 imo was the best Suikoden - with Suikoden 4 probably being the worst out of all of them.

796

Uhh… Yeah because they suck unless you know how to play them. They are like the 12 and Sean in 3rd strike.

And yes, SK owns Sven anyday. Reincarnation ftw. They don’t do the smae thing idiot. SK has crits and life steal, Sven has armor aura and cleave. The only thing in common they have is storm bolt.

797

How’s about Titan Quest mastery tiers-

Top:

  • Dream - goes well with like everything. Phantom Strike + Dream Stealer is pretty much the best melee skill in the game, kills mobs (huge AoE damage) and bosses (+190% damage). Distort Reality (1 point only) + maxed Temporal Rift = get-out-of-jail-free card, AoE damage + 7 second petrify (wtf). Lucid Dream tree ups DPS and adds survivability as well. Trances are good. Even has a good pet, if you’re playing a caster and can afford the skill points.

  • Hunting - Insane debuff with Study Prey + Flush Out, huge pierce damage with Art of the Hunt and Call of the Hunt + Exploit Weakness (and the amount of dex you’d put into a Hunting class). Marksmanship tree = huge bow DPS, if you’re playing an archer. Otherwise, still gets massive DPS with spears… with the added benefit of spear Hunters not requiring terribly many skill points. Volley is a nice passive attack as well. Take Down is decent except you’d probably have a better boss killing skill… and the Study Prey/CotH combo is pretty much a boss killer by itself. Wood Lore gives a nice DA bonus and also improves attack speed for spears and bows (which you will use if you are playing any kind of Hunting class except maybe pure melee Slayer).

  • Defense - Great reserve skill (Battle Awareness tree), pretty good self-buff (Rally tree), Adrenaline is the better randomly-activate-when-hit skill. Quick Recovery makes you really hard to hurt. Passive shield attacks are probably better than Warfare’s dual-wield tree if only because you get to use a shield, and it costs less to get all 3 shield attacks maxed than it does to max the dual-wield tree. Shield Charge + Disruption, and Batter + Rend Armor gives Defense really good crowd control as well. And Collossus Form is just nice for boss killing.

Any combination of those three masteries is in the top 5 classes. Combining any of these 3 with any other mastery is probably going to work out pretty well.

Upper-mid:

  • Warfare - kinda incomplete on its own. Onslaught (+ synergies) is the best left-click attack in the game, with huge damage bonuses (+50% for every hit once you max it) as well as really nice synergies. Just doesn’t have a good attack to make great use of that 50% damage bonus. Dual-wield tree is great, but Warfare lacks defensive skills/buffs to keep you alive while using dual-wielding. War Horn + Doom Horn is good, but other classes have better crowd-control skills.
    That said, Battle Standard is simply amazing for upping your damage output, and Warfare fits pretty well with most other classes. You just need another class to fill in the gaps.

  • Spirit - Deathchill Aura tree is a great debuff. Lich King is the best permanent pet in the game. Outsider is the best non-permanent pet in the game. Unearthly Power + Dark Covenant is a risky but crazy powerful self-buff. Death Ward is nice to have. Ternion Attack is really good but it used to almost singlehandedly make Spirit amazing. Now it’s just good but it doesn’t particularly stand out. Doesn’t give any strength bonuses to the people who benefit most from Deathchill Aura (meleers) and only really gives you a pet (and Ternion if you want it) for casters. Spirit is good, no doubt about it, but it doesn’t fit as well with every class and is pretty specialized (pretty much only 1-2 skill trees to worry about depending on your other mastery).

  • Storm - Best AoE spell in the game (Squall) that remains useful throughout the game, though in later difficulties it’s more a debuff than the AoE crowd killer it is in normal. Storm Nimbus is a pretty decent reserve skill. Thunderball is a great spell, just a bit tricky to use since it travels so slowly. Ice Shards are really nice when you max the tree, if you can afford the skill points. The Wisp is a great pet, nigh-unkillable with 99% dodge rate and it ups your DPS. All casters lose their shine in later difficulties, but Storm gets by because of Squall debuffs. Storm still blows through normal really well. Not terribly good with melee masteries, but passable.

  • Nature - Heart of Oak is an amazing reserve skill that helps you survive a lot longer and also ups your total speed. Wolves are nice once you max them and get some + skill equipment to run around with 3 wolves, which can lead to almost constant Strength of the Pack. Plague tree gives you a nice debuff as well… not quite the outright deadliness of Study Prey or Deathchill Aura, but the reduced resistances + speed + damage goes a long way towards winning fights. And Refresh doesn’t do much for Nature itself but it does wonders for skills in other masteries (CotH, Collossus Form, etc.) Nature costs a LOT of points, though. You pretty much only get to set yourself up with the core skills (Heart of Oak, Wolves + a few points in middle synergies + max Strength of the Pack, Plague tree, a few points in Refresh) and don’t have many points left over to play with stuff like Briar Ward or the Nymph.

Low tier:

  • Rogue - first for the good. Calculated Strike is a decent left-click attack. Lethal Strike is pretty much the single strongest attack in the game. Nightshade and Mandrake are pretty good for crowd control. Has some decent panic-button moves (Flash Powder). Blade Honing is a decent reserve skill. Now the problems- poison just doesn’t do jack squat past like… normal mid-Greece. Bleeding pretty much never does jack squat. No means of reducing resistances or armor or whatever, either. Fairly fragile class with no passives or buffs to improve survivability (Dodge Attack is in Warfare, lol). Rogue builds either hope monsters spend their time confused by Mandrake or just spam Lethal Strike against bosses. Doesn’t really add much to most classes, other than Lethal Strike, really. Lethal Strike is amazing, though.

  • Earth - Fire damage just isn’t terribly good, given increased resistances in later difficulties. You can farm for a nice fire weapon, I guess. Core Dweller is a pretty good pet but it’s no Lich King. Really, casters just aren’t strong enough in later difficulties and Earth doesn’t offer enough to a melee character. It works but you could do whatever Earth can, but better with other masteries. It’s not even a terribly good nuking class since casters aren’t terribly great in TQ.

Top classes would probably be:

  • Haruspex (Dream/Hunting) - ridiculous single target DPS via Study Prey, CotH, AotH, Trance of Wrath, and spears in general. PS + DS and DR + TR = amazing crowd control. All that DPS with a shield in hand and some decent defensive passives (lots of DA bonuses). Too good. Pretty much the best.
  • Warden (Hunting/Defense) - still has ridiculous DPS thanks to Hunting + shield attacks. Defense crowd control and survivability + ridiculous killing power of Hunting. Collossus Form, Study Prey, CotH, boss dead and you’re just chilling there.
  • Templar (Defense/Dream) - DPS isn’t as ridiculous as the above 2, but survivability is about as good as it gets and PS + DS is still going to kill things dead. DPS is still good, too.

Then…

  • Conqueror (Warfare/Defense) - Defense makes up for most of Warfare’s shortcomings, and not investing in dual-wield means you get more flexibility with your build. Battle Standard + Collossus Form will chew up bosses. Defense still handles crowds pretty well. Single target DPS is good. Not a particularly interesting class, though… just kinda wade around hitting things.
  • Spellbreaker (Warfare/Spirit) - insane DPS late game, with crazy debuffing from Spirit and dual-wield + Battle Standard from Warfare. With some good %damage to health weapons, it actually lives for a while, too. Just takes forever to get to that point.
  • Harbinger (Warfare/Dream) - poor man’s Haruspex. Less survivable, less DPS most of the time… still good, though.
  • Slayer (Warfare/Hunting) - retarded DPS. That’s pretty much the Slayer in a nutshell. Get some Thorny Mauls and your piercing damage will go through the roof. Study Prey and things die in like 1-2 hits. Takes forever to turn into a death-dealing machine (probably won’t be all that hot till mid-Legendary) and is pretty fragile for most of the game. Can be alleviated somewhat by doing weapon switch with a bow, but then it gets really costly points wise. Gear dependant to the max.
  • Guardian (Nature/Defense) - takes forever because you get barely any kind of damage related passives or skills, period. BUT you are nigh unkillable, between Heart of Oak and all the Defense skills. Hilarious once your skills start making an impact… just takes a lot of patience to get there. Wolves + Strength of the Pack, Plague, and good gear let you kill things reasonably quickly, though. Other classes kill bosses in like 5-10 seconds, Guardians kill them in like 30… but you aren’t really ever in danger of dying after a certain point.

Most other classes are pretty much just weaker versions of the above.

Casters suck past Normal. Oracle (Storm/Spirit) is about the only one that’s viable based on its skillset in later difficulties, what with the best pets and the only semi-useful spells.

798

Kenta: No fucking way Fayt is that low in Star Ocean 3, you can spam the whole game using almost nothing but Machine gun Blast and triple kick and dominate, especially with Maria on the field.

799

Been meaning to post this for awhile, but never did finish it up, but m’eh, someone else can fill in the blanks. Samurai Warriors 2 tiers:

Top Tier:
Keiji Maeda
Tadakatsu Honda
Oichi
Hideyoshi Toyotomi
Kanetsugu Naoe

High-Mid:
Ginchiyo Tachibana
Yukimura Sanada
Nobunaga Oda

Low-Mid:
Mitsuhide Akechi
Okuni
Noh
Hanzo Hattori
Ina
Nene *

Low:
Magoichi Saika
Shingen Takeda
Ranmaru Mori

So yeah, that’s probably about 2/3’s of all the characters. Characters within a tier are not ranked, so I’m not necessarily saying that Nene is worse than Ina. The tiers are not even that far apart in this game and it is probably the most balanced Warriors game that Koei has made.

  • Nene’s ranking is solely based on not using her transformation skill. With that, she could presumably be top-tier depending on what officers are present in a stage.
800

In terms of a better hero, Sven beats SK immensely. Reincarniation is too easy to counter in a match; Silencer, Drow, and others can easily silence and drain his mana to the point where he’s dead weight on a team.

In a real game (non -em mod) with good players SK is pretty damn horrible. He won’t have the chance to farm the items he needs to start beasting whereas Sven has cleave to easily farm fairly early and has high damage to assist ganks and group battles in Cleave and God’s Strength.

That’s also the reason why Naix is dirt shit as well. He cannot farm like he can in -em and will just hold the team back.

In my opinion Lich, Warlock, and Leviathain deserves to be top tier. Can’t really think up anymore at the moment. Silencer is pretty near tops as well because of Last Word and AoE Silence.

Edit: Oh yea I forgot, isn’t Bristleback like God Tier? Last time I heard anything he was banned from tournament play just like how Warlock was banned. Warlock however, got a nerf though so now he’s allowed in tournament play.