Tiers for non-fighting games?

I found out a while ago in Tales of Symphonia about the spell cancel infinite. So this basically means that any fighter character with spells is broken (i.e. Kratos, Zelos, Regal, etc.). I’m not too sure about the rest, though.

Riviera: The Promised Land tiers:

from top to bottom
Serene (she’s the best character in the game. Extrememly powerful)
Cierra (has tons of HP, and can exploit weaknesses better than everyone else, but is slow)
Ein (pretty well rounded. Disaresta sucks, but his other Sword overskills are good)
Fia (good for healing, and nothing else. Her attacks suck)
Lina (the prescense of Serene makes her crap. Even though she’s fast, Serene’s scythes, Cierra’s magic and Ein’s swords dominate Lina’s bows. She has almost nothing else going for her)

Final Fantasy 8:

S- Selphie (The End: pwnz all with one hit, including bosses)
A- Squall (w/ Lion Heart), Zell (Get good with his Limit Skills, and learn the combos and strings)
B- Irvine (some of the high level ammo can get you the good ol’ 9999 damage per-hit)
C- Laguna, Seifer, Edea (9999 damage on all enemies is nice)
D- Kiros, Ward (Not so hot…)
E- Quistis (Her abilities occasionally come in handy, but even after you have the Dark matter, she isn’t so great)
Q- Rinoa (She just plain sucks)

Tetris Tier List:

S:
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A:

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Mid:
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FF4 snes ver tiers plz! :china:

If you just learn Rinoas attacks for real … Her dog can make you invincible and the Starshower thingy makes on high levels as much damage as Squal’s Limit … Well so please put her at least higher then Quistis (IMHO even higher), because Q. sucks for real.

Nah, even if you learn Angelo’s abilities, there’s a dozen and a half items that do what the dog does, but better. Not to mention the general lack of control over it doesn’t help.

Hell, I know the game. LOOK AT MY NAME!

FFT Tier List (for special characters only, as their normal jobs)-

S- Orlandu (he’s the SF2 Akuma of FFT)
A- Ramza (his stats are just so damn high)
B- Mustadio (awesome range w/ gun and the paralysis skills are just great), Beowulf (disable, poison, Break, win), Worker 8 (Just such insanely high attack)
C- Agrias (great abilities, mediocre stats), Meliadoul (sucks against monsters), Cloud (he’s pretty good if you beef him up…but still not awesome, because the Materia Blade sucks)
D- Reis (she has alright attack power, and some strong elemental abilities make her able to exploit weaknesses, but inconsistent), Byblos (decent skills, mediocre stats)
E- Rafa (bad stats, bad abilities)
F- Malak (slightly better stats, much worse abilities), Boco (he’s just a stupid yellow chocobo)

FFT Tier List (for jobs)-

S- Ninja (it just rules, with good abilities in all jobs)
A- Samurai (good stats, great abilities when you have swords in-stock, and the nearly invincible blade grab counter), Monk (high attack, and abilities like Chakra and Earth Slash really pad out the varieties of skills)
B- Dancer (she can run while using her abilities to attack and status all enemies…sheer awesomeness), White Mage (Holy is one of the strongest magic spells in the game, and the full-life, auto-life, and cures are very nice)
C- Lancer (major attack power, Jump 8, very nice), Bard (buffs lasts a short amount of time, but still comes in handy), Knight (stat and equipment breakers are nice, but no range and no magic), Summoner (can come in handy, but it’s difficult finding a frequent time the three-block-range is effective), Thief (once they get the opponent’s weapon, they’re in a tough spot, and their high movement makes them good for escaping to heal, but ultimately, it’s a support job)
D- Wizard (would be good, but the exceedingly lengthy charge time for their spells makes it so you could kill them with other units by the time you get the chance to cast, but good stats), Geomancer (all the stats are above-average, with the second-highest attack in the game, good magic and high defense, but the casting skills are almost all useless, and the good ones aren’t useable on common terrain)
E- Archer (low attack and defense, and the near-useless charge skills just don’t work well together…but bows are nice), Time Mage (Demis would be good, but their incredibly long charge time and low accuracy with not-too-high-MP makes them near the bottom)
F- Squire (balanced stats are nice, but their abilities are useless) Chemist (guns are nice, but the low stats makes them useless unless a support job), Mediator (again, guns are nice, but their low stats and useless abilities make them only worthwhile for recruiting and farming)
G- Oracle (status magic is very rarely useful on its own, because there are so many attack abilities that add it)
H- Calculator (low magic and insanely, insanely low speed make them useless), Mime (they just don’t do much…)

I would say that Beowolf is up there with Ramza. The only thing holding him back is his low Brave, but that can easily be fixed with Ramza’s Scream.

If I were to tier special characters, assuming that they must remain in their current job BUT are allowed to learn abilities/skill from other jobs…

S…Orlandu (duh)
A+…Beowolf (CHICKEN EVERYTHING, mwa ha ha. Learn some white magic for healing and he can handle the board by himself)
A…Ramza (Stats so high, and can make everyone ELSE’s stats so high w/ Scream. Monk abilities and Two-Swords and Excalibur make him the ultimate one-on-one attacker)
B+…Mustadio (EVERYBODY GETS SHOT…innate item throw kicks ass, too)
B…Reis (Needs bare hands and some good accessories to be good, though)
B…Agrias (Orlandu-lite…decent stats, good attacks, and can use Knightswords)
B-…Rafa (You heard me. As long as you DON’T use her Heaven Skill, she’s basically an above-average female soldier who starts with higher faith and lower brave that most. Which makes her a natural mage and treasure-finder)
C+…Worker 8 (Immunity to magic…which can be a curse or a blessing. Good strength but abilities hurt him)
C…Meliadoul (A poor man’s Orlandu against humans…would be useless against monsters if she couldn’t equip knightswords. But stats are anything special, so why bother?)
C-…Cloud (Needs serious work…too much work to bother with, if you ask me. You can either give him a good weapon with no special skills or a crappy weapon with some decent skills)
D+…Byblos (Unique skills…but not worth emptying your roster for)
D…Boco (At least he can heal a group for no MP cost and serve as a steed for Orlando, Beowolf or Ramza…which is a hell of a lot more than what you could say for Malak)
F…Malak (Why?!! Basically a generic male warrior with horrible stats…why use him when your male generics have probably already mastered Monk or Ninja?)

Then you don’t know as much as you should … :slight_smile: Just learn the 2 attacks I’ve mentioned to the standart stuff (nothing more!) and see how godly it is (the lack of control doesn’t matter for real then). Exspecially, because you need no potions for being invincible and her Starshower thing just does tons of Damage. Quistis for example has no, absolutly no good Limit to compare both and well, Rinoa’s magic stats are anyway higher …

Hey, I did that. I got 300 ultimas, flares and meteors for junctioning, and Rinoa still sucked with em. Angelo just isn’t useful, and the Angel skill just plain SUCKS. And really, the stats don’t make any difference because anything can be junctioned to the point of maxing out. And Quistis does have some good skills, and Shockwave Pulsar when you have 100 Ultimas junctioned can reach 99999 damage to all enemies and Mighty Guard, which often give Haste and Aura really is great.

As for Shiki, Beowulf’s -50 Brave ability is great, but Ramza can beat down those enemies even faster than he can turn them into a chicken. He’s great, but not greater than Ramza. But Rafa at B-? That just ain’t right. Her stats are above average, sure, but so are all the other heros, but at least they have targetable skills.

Suikoden 3 Tiers-

(Doesn’t include Sarah/Yuber/Luc cuz they’re only playable for that long, Sasarai because you can only use him for one fight, the dogs, Lulu cuz he dies off the bat, all the characters who don’t fight, and Jimba)

SS) Geddoe, Hugo
A+)Chris
A) Thomas (His attack is simply incredible at weapon level 16, and his skills can mostly be raised to S)
A-) Edge
B+) Viki (older)
B) Beecham, Joker, Cecile, Viki (younger), Emily, Mua
B-) Sgt Joe, Estella, Ace, Futch, Fred, Nicholas, Piccolo, Rody
C+) Lucia, Aila, Hallec, Nei, Roland, Gau, Samus, Jacques, Sharon
C) Salome, Fubar, Franz, Percival, Bright, Watari, Ayame, Mel
C-)Yuiri, Juan, Rico, Leo, Reed, Augustine, Rhett, Landis, Sanae Yamamoto, Nash
D+) Alanis, Toppo, Borus, Lilly, Wilder, Ruby
D)Dupa, Shiba, Shabon, Belle, Kenji
F) Melville, Twaikan, Gadget Z

Emily and Juan break Suikoden 3.

They have more hits per attack than anyone else and both have great attack power, speed, and movement to boot.
There are ways to nullify Juan’s Waking rune…and once he and Emily get together they can’t be stopped.

I didn’t raise Juan, but I did raise Emily and at the end of the game she just WOULD NOT STOP hitting.

After them, comes the True Rune users, of course (although I think Hugo isn’t nearly at Chris and Geddoe’s level).

And after them…

Best close offense is Fred, Edge, or Ayame/Landis combo (Thomas can get some crazy skills through training, but even then he still needs a bunch of rare equipment to be worth the effort)

Best tanks are probably Mua, Leo, Fred, or Nicholas

Best mages are then Estella, Piccolo, or Young Viki (she has better speed than Older Viki)

Best Long Rangers are Jacques and Yuiri, easily.

Best Support Character is Nei…simply for her song which gives Berserk to all fighters.

Now for some Oblivion race tiers.

With well-planned and effective training anyone can raise any group of two or three attributes 5 points every level. Also, the cap on all attributes and skills is 100, regardless of race.

This means, for example, that a Breton female (starting Strength 30) can wind up with just as high a Strength as a Nord male (starting Strength 50). It just takes her a few more levels. In fact, assuming both took the same sign and favored attributes, and assuming both trained with maximum efficiency every level, the Breton female would take a grand total of FOUR more levels to top out Strength than the Nord male would. Usually, this happens in the 10s in levels, and considering you can get up to around Lv. 50 or so, this difference of four levels is very minute in the grand scheme of things.

Which means that the ONLY thing left to consider is the races’ greater powers and special abilities. So without further ado:

Tier S:

Breton – Where to begin? Permanent 50% resistance to hostile Magicka, permanent 50 extra points of Magicka to use, and to boot, a great once per day spell in Dragon Skin that provides 50% physical damage resistance for a full minute. Those three special abilities make Bretons utterly OWN the game and every other race in gameplay past Lv. 20, no matter what path they choose. They seem tailored to be mages at the beginning, and indeed they do make the best mages overall (they’re more durable and survivable than High Elves), but Breton fighters, although they take longer to develop, are insanely awesome in their own right.

Tier A:

Redguard – Starts out the best fighter, and stays arguably the best (Orcs and Bretons may be in on the argument). The Adrenaline Rush massively fortifies everything important to a fighter for when the going really gets tough, and resistance to poison and disease are gravy.

Orc – Comparable in fighting ability to Redguards and Bretons. Their Berserk gives a substantial boost to Strength and a HUGE boost to Fatigue (at the cost of a massive Agility penalty). They also have resistance to Magicka, although it’s only 25% (versus the Breton’s 50%).

Tier B:

Dark Elf – 75% resistance to fire is nice considering the very point of the game’s main quest. Ancestor Guardian is also a cool little benefit, allowing regeneration of Magicka when needed if you have the Atronach sign. They can make solid fighters or mages.

High Elf – Boost to Magicka points is 50 points higher than the Breton’s (a total boost of 100), and they boast a 75% resistance to disease, but they also 25% gain weaknesses to fire, frost and shock attacks. So while Bretons are a magically-gifted race that can dish it out and take it in return, High Elves can dish it out, even more often than Bretons, in fact, but in many situations can’t take it. Still, High Elves are great for a true offensive-minded spammer of spells, and might be preferable over Bretons to some for that purpose alone. The elemental weakness isn’t crippling, but it does make you play more cautiously.

Argonian – All their abilities are definitely nice but not true must-haves. Still, there’s something cool (and pretty effective) about lizards that can breathe underwater, completely resist poison, and resist disease 75% of the time.

Tier C:

Khajiit – Eye of Fear is good when you’re getting wailed on, casting Demoralize with a magnitude of 100 on an entire mob, giving it a fairly high rate of success. Too bad you can only use it once per day, and its use otherwise is fairly limited. Eye of Night is basically a no-cost light spell.

Nord – The race specially made for beginners, basically. Nords dominate the lower levels with high starting combat attributes to match the Redguard and Orc. But as those starting stats mean less and less as the game goes on, Nords also fall off. Frost resistance is okay, but not as good as Magicka resistance, or even fire resistance. Nordic Frost quickly becomes weak after the first 10 levels, and Woad’s physical damage resistance bonus pales in comparison to the Breton’s Dragon Skin.

Wood Elf – Beast Tongue isn’t half as good as a decent Journeyman-level Conjuration spell, leaving the okay but hardly worth it alone 75% resistance to disease.

Tier D:

Imperial – There’s no nice way of putting this. Yeah, Imperials suck. Two once-per-day powers that Apprentice-level spells can match or exceed in effect? How the hell are Imperials the ruling race in Tamriel again?

I think it would be very hard to tier EVERY playable character in Suikoden 3 because of the sheer depth of the gameplay system.

I mean you’d have to judge the 60+ characters on offense, defense (tanking ability), support magic, skills, magic power, magic affinities, stat potential, stat growth, unique items, fixed items, fixed runes, rune slots, war battle ability, war battle support skills, random battle supports skills, unite attacks.

That would be way too much for me.

Everybody is pretty much usuable except the 4 male dogs (Connie has good MGC and speed and an A+ in the Water and Blue Gate runes…so she’s not totally useless).

MTG Vintage Color Tiers

  1. Blue
  2. Colorless
  3. Black
  4. Red
  5. White
  6. Green

The best tanks are the guy with shields, because once you max out their skills with it, they’re unhittable by non-runes. I’d definitely put Cecile over Leo (so I did :P), plus, she gets S shield. SHE IS A BEAST. But I played the loving hell outta Suikoden 3. I raised all my guys (even the ugly ones) to 100.

In 3, the best guys are the ones who have high attack power, a level 4 rune skill, along with an A or S magic skill. Duke was great with Fire, Futch and Edge are great with Lightning. But Edge got alot more in the way of skills. So you could buff the hell outta his attack or magic. Futch, on the other hand, only had 4, but was able to ride Bright, which made him still usable…but Edge just ruled.

I put Estella and Piccolo lower, because of their complete lack of attack power and HP, but the Vikis have higher HP. But indeed, the Vikis were typo’d around.

I kept Jacques on C+ because he didn’t have much in the way of rune skills, but he was still quite usable.

Nei just isn’t that good. I mean, you can use that one move and get by, but after that she’s really just a liability.

And yeah, I did leave out their propensity for joint skills.

Dude, it’s more like
Top-Blue

Wait, there’s other colors in vintage? =P

For CFC I just remember Gill’s card OWNED.

I should actually alter that a bit:

GOD

Blue

  • recall, time walk, tinker, fow, drain, gifts, brainstorm and a whole whack load of other playable spells

HIGH

Colorless

  • jewelery, shop, chalice, rod, jar, crypt, followed by playable stuff

Black

  • will, necro, tutors, duress, ritual, animate effects, followed by playable stuff

MID

Red

  • welder, blasts, removal, R&R, shaman, dragon

White

  • stp, disenchants, a couple playable cards (auriok salvagers basically)

BOTTOM

Green

  • oath, crop rotation, regrowth

The problem with most characters in Suikoden 3 is that Fire magic SUCKS, unlike the first two games.
Hitting your own allies For The Lose.
In fact, the only elements that matter are Water (for healing), Lightning (for attack), and Shield (healing and support).
The only other runes that are worth using (besides True Runes) are the Rage Rune
(only for the Level 4 Final Flame spell) and Mother Earth (Level 3 Earthquake plus Canopy Defense for Level 4). The Wind and Cyclone runes are plain shit (as they have always been).

I put Estella the highest b/c she has a permanent Rage rune w/ an S in Fire affinity, plus she can can get an A+ in Lightning. Estella with a Thunder and Rage rune pwns. Period.

The area-effect Fire spells are only usuable at the very start of the round or if the character has the unique Precision skill (which helps prevent allies from being hurt by fire magic). Duke has neither the insane speed nor the Precision, plus the highest magic affinity is a B+ (meh) for Fire (bleh).
Edge is better than Duke because he has B+ for almost every rune, including the USEFUL Water and Lightning Rune.
The ONLY things Duke has over Edge is that Duke has the unique Heavy Damage skill (but only a max of B+), unite attacks with Elaine or his whole team, and a little more HP.
He also has a TAD more luck and strength growth, but the Star Dragon Sword MORE that makes up that difference for Edge.
(As a side note…nobody who is REALLY good with Fire Magic–as in, an A or better–actually has the Precision skill except for Sarah…who already has an S with Water and Blue Gate…yeah Fire Magic sucks except for Final Flame)

So yeah, not that Duke sucks or anything, but Edge is the best close-range fighter/mage combo besides Geddoe.

I also forget to add Cecile to the tanks list. She pwns and I’ll take her over the other tanks who might have slightly higher stats anyday :smile:

Jacques is the top Long Ranger because he, along with Landis, has the highest potential of natural speed, 249, as seen here:
http://www.suikosource.com/games/gs3/guides/statgrowth.php
A couple of other characters are basically in the same speed growth tier as Jacques/Landis with a maximum of 248 (which is really no different)…like Hugo, Rhett, the Ninjas, Futch, etc. but NONE of those characters are long rangers.
Jacques is also only one who can get a S rank in Sharpshoot.
Yuiri is up there because while she can get only get a B+ in Sharpshoot she can get an A in Heavy Damage, AND has one of the best MGC stats in the game with a B+ in Water and an A in Wind.

In CFC…

The Killer Triad (Yamazaki, Yashiro, Akuma) are all you really need.
Draw those 3 in your first turn, and there’s nothing your foe can do unless he has Orochi Iori, Guile, or The Triad himself in his hand.

Would this list also apply for Morrowind? If so, than I should really try using a Breton and becoming an uber mage. What I find funny is that my friend always uses Imperials, and according to you, they’re crap (they probably are, but since he like to use the “humans”, he uses Imperials. He also spends way too much time leveling his skils).