if you equip the invincible and use annihilator, it does around 48,000 damage to everyone, ignores magic defense although it can be shelled.
since you get gunmage extremely early, you get white wind and absorb for free healing and mighty guard for defense boost. fire, stone and bad breath works really well earlier on also.
even though highroads wind gives you first strike, it doesnt give you the flee ability. i also perfer the valiant luster over high roads wind in the 100 level dungeon
Warhammer 40,000 table top game:
God-Teir: Tau, Tyranids, Craftworld Eldar (Iyanden)
High Teir: Black Templars, Khorn, Imperial Guard, Orcs
Mid-Teir: Necrons, Space Wolves, Death Guard, Emperorâs Children, Ultra Marines, Black Legion
Low Teir: Thousand Sons, Dark Angels, Eldar,
Crap Teir: Blood Angels, Dark Eldar
I should also note that itâs possible to win against anything below god teir with just about anything else.
Return of Shiki:
> You keep saying that Frog Drop âtakes too longâ but really what kind of argument is that?
I never said it takes âtoo longâ. I said it takes âreally longâ. I also said it was one of her few decent spells. Try again.
A minour note, but I should also point out that catching frogs is solely for Frog Drop. At least when youâre stealing for Thievery or killing dragons for Dragon Quest, youâre gaining free items and lots of experience.
Iâve beaten Quayle, thanks. Quina may last longer, but she still dies the fastest (except maybe for Eiko). And I repeat, what good is Vanish when the majority of attacks in the game are magic or magic-based? Mighty Guard is good, but you pretty much have to spend very other turn casting it cause it wears off so fast. Iâd rather just kill things outright with better characters.
I brought up the point about her fork because the better characters are versatile with with physical and magic attacks. Quina is reliant on MP, and most of her spells arenât that good. A few are good. Some are okay or have use in specific situations. The rest arenât worth bothering with. I keep comparing her Blue magic to previous gamesâ Blue Magic because in previous games, blue magic rocked. In IX, itâs mediocre at best.
Also, with the possible exception of grand dragons (and only because theyâre so dangerous), what normal enemy is worth casting sleep on, that sleep works on, to steal from them? And what boss (who is worth stealing from) is susceptible to sleep?
And finally⌠WHEN did I say Quina was useless? Or that any character was useless? I said she was bottom tier because sheâs the worst of the characters, but I didnât say she was useless. As you said, no character is useless. Sheâs just not as good as the others.
Ouroboros:
re: Gunmage
Hmm. Next time I trudge through that game, Iâll hve to give that a try. Thatâs still a far cry from about 200,000 HP in one shot though.
Concerning Highwinds road, if you have First Strike and catnip, then you donât need flee really. Youâll just kill everything you come across instantly. I canât remember what Valient Lustre does. 
I suppose you forgot you get plenty of free items for catching frogs for Frog Drop.
So there goes another argument out the window. And it takes WAY longer to build up Thievery than Frog Drop.
And Blue Magic SUCKED in FF5 and FF6 (and FF10 if you want to count the Blue Ape as a blue mage)
It was at its best in FF9 and FFTA.
No Sisters of Battle nor Witch Hunters?:sad:
Return of Shiki:
> I suppose you forgot you get plenty of free items for catching frogs for Frog Drop. So there goes another argument out the window.
No , I didnât forget. I didnât bother to mention it because the items either arenât that good or can be found elsewhere with less hassle. Last I checked, You get 5 items for catching frogs: Silk Robe (I suppose itâs okay early on), Elixir (bleh), some forks (good for Quina, but as you said, whoâs using her physical attack?), and a Battle Boots (good, but you can more easily buy these). This in no way compares to the dozens of items and equipment you get from stealing, or the experience you get for killing Grand Dragons.
> And it takes WAY longer to build up Thievery than Frog Drop.
To 9999 damage maybe, maybe. But Thievery can hit big damage a lot earlier than Frog Drop if youâre stealing constantly (which is almost a given). Frog Drop only gets powered up in spurts, and there are times when you canât really power it up at all because the frogs donât regenerate fast enough. Stealing is at least constant. AND, in the meantime, Zidane at least can kill things without Thievery (regular physical attack and Trance abilities) and survives better due to higher HP/def, and youâre not stuck in some damn swamp doing nothing else. Quinaâs still sucking until she gets Frog Drop at decent levels, and continues to die the most easily even after she gets to do 9999 damage.
> And Blue Magic SUCKED in FF5 and FF6 (and FF10 if you want to count the Blue Ape as a blue mage)
Blue Magic was just as good as regular magic in FFVI. Most of the blue magic spells were rubbish, just as most of the regular magic spells were either rubbish or became obsolete after a time (i.e. after you got Ultima). True, nothing was as good as Ultima, except maybe Vanish-Doom, but Grand Train and Quasar were almost as good if you didnât feel like glitching your way through the game. White Wind was a potentially better healer than Cure 3. Big GUard was still awesome (though hardly necessary if you had Marvel Shoes).
Admittedly, I can barely remember using blue magic in V. Time Magic was boss in that game.
Blue Magic isnât that good in X, yeah. Well, not quite: Mighty Guard, Bad Breath and Stone Breath are all great. But since theyâre overdrive spells, and you canât abuse Overdrives like you can in VIII, theyâre really not worth using.
However, Blue Magic rocked in VII. Hands down the best version of blue magic ever. Trine (when you first get it), Aqua Breath, Shadow Flare, Pandoraâs Box, Angelâs Whisper (best healing spell in the game), White Wind, Bad Breath, Big Guard, and probably a few others Iâm forgetting. All great spells.
BLue Magic was also good in VIII, albeit only if you abused the skip-turn glitch and kept Quitis at low HP (and since this was the to play in all but two battles, why wouldnât you?). Degenerator/Bad Breath/Shockwave Pulsar every turn for free? Fuck IXâs shitty blue magic.
> It was at its best in FF9 and FFTA.
VI, VII and VIII > IX. Dunno about FFT.
Right! Knew I forgot someone! Iâd say the entire Inquisition occupies the lower-mid teir though. I played demonhunters for a bit and from personal experiance, I can tell you you need to invest TONS of money to get that army to work right (which is why I no longer play them).
Sisters get really good special units, but their basic troops are kinda lacking. Not to mention the entire army is pewter.:tdown:
But then again, nothing eats a Nid army like a column of Sisters armed with flamers and heavy flamers, so Iâd say theyâre better than Demonhunters.
Both of which are pretty crappy games to begin with. And honestly, if you were using blue magic in FFTA, I feel sorry for you. You couldâve had an entire party of LONG RANGE INSTANT DEATH. Assasins made that game too easy. Period.
And also, Iâd like to say that VIII > VII
I guessed Iâm just biased since I just started playing and chose this army, after having a long standing run with Battletech so I think Iâll be fine once I get the army completed (far from it though)
Their Elites are hot, nothing clears a battleground faster than a Vindicare Assassin and 19 Sisters of Repentia, with a Priest⌠Thing is those are all elites (priest HQ). To use the Vindicare you gotta have an Inquisitor or an Inquisitor Lord, another Elite or an HQ choice⌠Which means youâve practically got to be running huge armies to get the most of these choices, especially when the whole of the Sisters of Battle depend more or less on well timed Acts of Faith.
To get the most out of that you have to be running lots of squads of Sisters, upgrading Sister Superiors to Veterans and get a Cannoness, Fast Attacks, etc.
Not to mention theyâre all resiliant to Psychers, which is more or less a plus.
Youâve got their vehicles too, and all their support you get just by picking a Inquisitor. All that hardware looks pretty and all but like someone told me more or less getting one is like packing all your eggs in one basket, however strong that basket is the armies are so versitile that it wonât take long before a unit comes along and destroys it. I dunno.
Looks to me to get the most of this armyâs strengths you have to play it at 1000+ Minimum, and you have to play a straight across the board army of Sisters
because Inquisitors/Lords powerful as they are cost so damn much they can be an army of their own:annoy:
But those Assassin Temples are hot too, Callidus just âbeamsâ anywhere she wants and cleans house, though she probably wonât live too long.
Perhaps the main reason I chose the army though was because starting out I remember playing Vindicare long ago before the rules changed again.
Youâre right though they cost a lot and theyâre all Pewter, but is that a factor on guaging its strengths when it fights at its best?
Besides, think about it man, youâre the pimpin commander of an army of WOMEN, how could you loose?
Yeah, Sisters can be pretty sick, but thereâs alot that forces them a bit lower in the rankings than most other armies.
They have weak HQ. This is one of those armies where you pick an HQ choice and let them sit back for most of the battle. This genarally isnât bad because one of the three god teir armies, and some of the upper teirs function pretty much the same way.
True, you can pump an Inquistor Lord up to being useful, but like you said, itâs just too many points.
They are Strength 3. Itâs pretty tough to wound in close combat with a strength 3. Against the majority of the armies youâll play against, this means you are wounding on a 5+. Against Nurgle, you can only wound on a 6. This can be fixed with faith, but itâs kinda random.
I personally donât think the Vindicare is worth it. 120 points for 6 shots. 6 AWESOME shots mind you, but when the chips are down, the Vindicare has never pulled through for me. Again, this is a personal thing, the Vindicare is VERY good, but I donât think heâs useful enough to field. Callidus is much better IMO.
REPENTIA! Repentia are awesome until everyone figures out what they can do. They get to move an extra d6 every round, have strength 6 chainfists, and their leader has a power weapon. Sick. If you can get them in EVERYTHING dies, but Iâve also seen these units get shot down in the first round too many times to think them good anymore. They would be excellent in a higher point game where you could field more than one unit.
Sisters have insane Heavy support, but tanks blow up too easy in the current edition unless they are skimmers. Other than that, the Exorcist is probably one of the most broken things in this entire game. Penetant engines are good to because of their special rule concerning immobilization/weapon loss.
But Sisters do have tons of good points. Power armor, space marine equipment, faith, Ballistic Skill 4. All these give sisters an edge.
All in all, I say mid tier because although they ARE great, they canât deal very well with close combat (Khorn, Tyranids) or swarm armies like Guard or Orks (unless you equip every other sister with a flamer, which just isnât that practical for every game).
In a shoot-out situation, Sisters are SCARY though.
Virtual On
Temjin
Balbasbow
Dorkas
ViperII
Apharmd
Raiden
FeiYen
Belgdor
I didnât realize just yet the limitations of strength 3, perhaps I was just counting on the âfaithâ factor.
I remember hearing the Exorcist having ânear-inpenetrableâ frontal armour or some such.
So far as Vindicare and Repentia goes, my theory on this, along with the fact that to run Vindicare requires at minimum you go basic elite Inquisitor, is the sniper keeps their heads down, Inquisitor calls in naval bombardments or some such (further keeping their heads down) while Repentia runs in under cover with either more troops or a vehicle (Exorcist?) I forgot what the Priest does gotta check, I think he helps them run further or hit more often. Add to that the Vindicare âcappingâ the squad leader the Repentia are gunning for and its a slaughterhouse. Itâs funny though that Callidus can do all this on her own without support, take out what⌠Maybe 5 models when she shows up?
Guess though youâre right you need either a huge army or one designed to support just Repentia, which is near impossible with 500 point battles IMO.
I dunno I guess I just love those battle-scarred ladies.
So far as the HQ goes, Cannonness or Palatine (I donât really think Palatines are worth it unless youâre into hard-core Roleplaying) There are upgrades you can use for her that help her live a little longer and there are advantages to choosing her and having her die after runnin in there. Of course Iâm not too familiar myself with the sequences just yet but it looks like sheâs really just an âActs of Faith Batteryâ lol
Iâm still relatively ânewâ to this game, perhaps not wargaming in general (depends on your opinion on Battletech) I heard that Warhammer was, bar none, the best there was. Rules and everything.
Still though it was interesting seeing you bring up a tier list for the 40k universe. Is that list pretty much the general agreed upon consensus?
Yeah, I have a bunch of friends who work at the GW store in Bel-Air, which is in the top 5 stores in the US, so yeah, this list is pretty much agreed on by everyone I know who plays. Even my friend who actually PLAYS Blood Angels admits their only saving grace anymore is power armor. They really need an upgrade.
But seriously, donât let anything Iâm saying distract you from your sisters army. Just about every army can massacre the other side. The only armies you really need to worry about are the god-tier, who just wipe everyone else up effortlessly. And even then, people who play god-tier armies eventually give it up because they want fairer games.
Strength 3 is a pretty big liabillity. My advise is to rely on your firepower until your enemy makes it across the field. By then itâs turn 3 or so for a slow army by which point, blowing faith points like crazy wonât matter to much. And actually, yeah you DO want to take an Exorcist. Theyâre beastly, especially if you are playing lower point games. Just place it in difficult terrian so you get a hull down.:tup:
Oh, and Saint Celestine⌠:hitit:
Iâve never actually played Battle Tech, does that use the Mage Knight system?
Thanks for the advice, game looks deep enough that it should be fun. Even heard they hold tourneys for it too, though Iâd imagine it being mostly God-Tiers right?
St.Celestine, well she was Repentia before so sheâs cool with me:rofl:
Battletech is more like Warhammer really. I donât like Mage Knight⌠Seems a little too simplified and I like pewter models better than plastic ones.
While there are armies and empires, apparently alien animal species, no intelligent alien life, just humans in 3025-60 AD killing each other with mechs.
Pick your favorites, go alone or in groups and kill with weapons similar to Warhammer, more or less. Just more rules you can breakâŚ
ex. run ten âhexesâ on concrete roads, turn, fall, skid for 10 more in a 20 ton 'mech, into a 80 tonner and youâve effectively charged for 20 hexes and deal a good chunk more damage that turn than most 20 ton mechs could with weaponry they could normally mount.
You canât go by âtiersâ in Battletech, although ideally âClan Techâ owns everything else.
Nah. Mostly Space Marines and Chaos from what Iâve seen. If you go to a US tourney itâll probably look something like thisâŚ
1: Space Wolves
2: Khorne
3: Space Wolves
4: Imperial Guard
5: Black Templars
6: Space Wolves
7: Ultra Marines
8: Space Wolves
9: Space Wolves
10: Tau
11: Tyranids
12: Space Wolves
13: Other Random army (Mostly Necrons or Inquisition. Sometimes Dark Eldar)
14: Khorn
15: Random Chaos Army
16: Whatever you are playing
In other contries you can pretty much replace all instances of Space Wolves with Dark Eldar.
But for the most part this is a more âreponsibleâ community. People just usually play the army that they like best. Because playing God-teir armies usually results in people not wanting to play against you. Have fun!
Anyone wanna tier the WoW classes?
World of Warcraft steals your soul, Iâll stay awayâŚ
Hey which is stronger,
Starcraft
Protoss Carrier vs Terran Battlecruiser?
Battlecruisers are stronger in a direct battle against a Carrier. Yamato cannon is just too strong.
If weâre talking about opposing ground forces, Carrier is better. It has more range, more speed, and ground forces usually default to hitting interceptors rather than the carrier itself. The opponent has to manually set his forces to aim for the carrier itself.
It depends a lot on what ground forces we are talking about. Against anything with fast firing rates but low damage, ie marines, battlecrusers are a lot better because marines can quickly and consistantly kill the interceptors. Against splash air, corsairs and valcs, this applys as well. But against dragoons and goliaths the carriers get a lot better. The fact that they cost more money and time to up their sheilds AND armor hurts a lot, too, whereas the battlecrusers armor ups will affect its whole health bar.
That said, arbiters screw this all up.
At any rate, Starcraft has to be the most balanced game ever.
Well I ask because thereâs a somewhat funny and stupid thread on gamefaqs asking that very question and it pretty much doesnât answer anything, although some people provided some good insight. I just bought the game myself looking to get into some online multiplayer mayhem and this question seemed interesting enough.
Of course you shouldnât put all your eggs into a single basket⌠They asked some hypothetical question regarding 12 Battlecruisers fully upgraded vs 12 Carriers fully upgraded.
Lots of random responses saying basically the battlecruisers have to concentrate their fire on single carriers, after 1 volley one should be gone, etc. I take it from this discussion you canât controll the interceptors at all?