Tiers for non-fighting games?

[System_1]

I thought this would be something interesting to talk about. What are some of the tier lists for non-fighting games such as beat em ups, shmups, rpgs, etc? Not only fighting games have tiers “:^)”

Anyways, I think I’ll get the ball rolling with my opinions of the tiers for Final Fight.

I would rank it in the order of:

Haggar
Cody
Guy

I place Haggar first because he’s probably the best big man of ANY beat em up ever. His power is CRUSHING in this game. That pile driver of his takes half health each time! His defense is also the highest. His slow speed and large size are problems, but his pros far outweigh his cons.

Cody is very all around in every area. However, as a normal fighter, I would actually have to give the edge to Guy because of Guy’s superior mobility. However, Cody’s ability to fight with knives really puts him above Guy because weapons are always good, and knives are just so fucking plentiful all throughout the game.

Guy isn’t bad at all actually, imo. He just isn’t as good. First of all, he is very weak strength and defense wise. Next, his special ability, unlike Haggar’s and Cody’s, is absolutely useless. I NEVER use the wall jump. Now, I may be wrong, but it seems pointless to me. However, his mobility is a REAL big plus in this game because of the lack of a dash. And just in case anyone wonders, I play Guy myself.

The farthest I’ve been able to go on one credit is the fifth stage, but that place always wrecks me.

Guy has a resetable infinite

punch twice turn around punch twice turn around repeat till dead.

broken bitch

[Return_of_Shiki]

Trying to tier SvR 2006, seems impossible so far.

The new stamina system really takes the sting out of guys like the Big Show who would normally dominated…and too many damn moves were taken out of the game so everyone has almost the same shitty generic moveset.

Even with the stamina system, Andre still seems the best, but not broken.
Of course, the stamina system can be turned off in options…but an actual tiering is still hard.
Do you count stamina system on or off?
Plus the CPU is back to reversing EVERY FUCKING THING like in HCTP again (one of the few major flaws in that games) and FUCKING CHEATS on button-mashing minigames and submissions…but then you can lower the CPU resistance on that too, at least (unlike HCTP).

[Kyokuji]

The fact that Triple H is top tier in the game is hilarious if you follow backstage politics in wrestling.

[js2756]

Been playing Breath of Fire games a lot recently, so tiers for some of the BoF games.

BoF 1:
god tier:
Ryu/Hero - Agni owns everything in this game, it’s effectively an “I win” spell.

Top tier:
Karn - morphs are the only other way without tons of level building of doing over 500 damage
Bleu - 400 damage for BoltX.

Mid tier:
Bow - best physical outside of Karn and Ryu, spells are good in the early game
Ox - decent damage, but slow
Nina - only good healer, made obsolete by Agni, spells cost a lot

bottom tier:
Mogu - average fighter, can’t do anything else
Gobi - only good as part of Karn’s morphs.

BoF II
top tier:
Ryu/Hero - solid all around, dragons are good for damage
Katt - best physical attacker with great speed (I think only Angel Nina has higher, but I could be wrong)
Rand - also solid all around, lacks in speed and AP, but Wake is one of the more useful skills in the game (whack your characters alive, woot!)

mid tier:
Nina - Angel Nina allows for escaping from any fight. High speed allows her to act before a lot of enemies. Will makes her more useful in long dungeons than Bleu.
Bleu - has Nina beat in terms of stats, but lacks the more useful Banish (Angel Nina) and Will (normal Nina) skills. Is also slower.
Bow - the healer of the party, but not a very good one because spells take way too much AP in this game. Is essentially a crappier version of Rand with more AP.
Sten - a crappier version of Katt, slower, weaker. Sweh is a neat skill if you’re trying to fight a particular monster, but if you run into a monster you don’t want to fight, you might as well use Banish.

bottom tier:
Jean - is only good in his super shaman Frogman form, except that his Chop skill takes two turns, and has the potential to miss. Katt is a much better choice.
Spar - weak all around, stat boosting magic isn’t all that useful, and that’s all he brings to the table.

BoF III:
god tier:
Ryu/Hero - dragon accession is better than anything any other character has to offer, nothing comes remotely close to how good it is.

top tier:
Rei - Weretiger does good damage, and he normally does good damage anyways. High speed plus Pilfer make Rei a solid character.
Momo - Excellent support character. Does solid damage, and she also has healing spells to compliment her support magic. Low defense, and a lack of AP hurt her though.

Mid teir:
Garr - physical attacker only. Is hurt by the fact that the Beast spear drains his health, making Momo a much better choice for bosses. Magic sucks.
Nina - black mage, is hurt by the fact that she doesn’t last through long dungeons, because she’ll drain her AP pretty quickly. Magic is very useful at times though.

bottom tier:
Peco - starts at a way lower level than everyone else, and even built up, the only thing he has going for him is his high HP. Best use for him is to get easy levels to learn master skills, otherwise, leave him on the bench.

[mr.hadoken]

Thanks for the reply ha ha and going into detail about it

[Return_of_Shiki]

Peco is NOT bottom-tier.

The following is the starting and final stats of all BOF3 chars (disregarding all stats bonuses from masters and items), from GameFAQ’s BOF3 Stat Gain FAQ.
Further explanation later:

RYU

---

LVL | HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT

1 | 20 11 12 10 8 10
99 | 328 228 207 146 91 187

REI

---

LVL| HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT

5 | 42 12 23 15 19 22
99 | 285 108 176 145 122 140

NINA

---

LVL | HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT

5 | 27 33 13 13 14 24
99 | 220 322 102 112 100 229

MOMO

---

LVL | HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT

10 | 52 40 30 25 15 50
99 | 272 212 178 124 74 267

PECO

---

LVL | HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT

1 | 40 8 18 14 3 4
99 | 458 193 237 196 41 57

GARR

---

LVL | HP AP PWR DEF AGL INT

13 | 99 7 58 44 17 21
99 | 384 47 252 189 63 98

[js2756]

snip

And who’s going to bother to take the time to level anybody to level 99? That’s like saying that Bleu is the best character in BoF 2 because at level 99 her stats are better than everyone elses. But it takes literally FOREVER to get that high in that game.

BoF games aren’t like other RPGs where it is easy to level up to level 99. At around lvl 50, where most people would be by the end of the game, he’s got the stats to be a decent tank, but still isn’t as good as Garr who’d I quickly trade in for either Rei or Momo. His inate skills are pretty awful as well, and he’s still the slowest character. Use chain formation? I’d rather not take the universal 50% Def hit. You can try and make an argument for using him instead of Nina, but her naturally high INT and better speed make her a much better utility character than Peco and she has a much better spell set than he does.

Peco, Nina and Garr are still nowhere near the usefulness of the other 3 characters anyways.

[Return_of_Shiki]

EDIT: It isn’t neccessary to go to Level 99 to see the differences between characters. Nearly all the stat gains in the game taper off around Level 60. In my games I ended with levels in the mid-50’s and I didn’t spend any large amount time power-leveling.
My point was that Peco overtakes Garr naturally…and even MORE so if you use Masters wisely.
That’s what makes Peco so good. He’s the most versatile character in the game by far. He’s MEANT to be the one character you can customize however you see fit. Every other character is stuck for the most part in a certain role. His lack of learned skills and absence of a defined role only means he has more room to learn master skills and be fit into any battle party.
Peco is naturally slow, so in one of my games I had Peco apprentice to Meryleep (-1 HP, -1 PWR, -1DEF, +2 AGL) for most of the game, and by the end, I had a tank who was actually faster than my Ryu and Momo.
Or…you can have him apprentice under Emitai (+4 AP, -2 PWR, -2 DEF, +4 INT) or Deis and have a tank who’s also an uber-mage. (You said that Nina makes a better mage, but her learned magic spell set SUCKS. The best non-Dragonspells in the game are learned from MASTERS (Deis, Hondara, etc.), which means ANYONE can learn them.)
Or…you can have the only character in the game who can naturally over 800 HP if you have Peco apprentice under someone gives +4 HP (Fahl or Giotto)

Peco is basically Garr with more potential, much more AP, much more HP, and more defense.
The only thing is that he’s much harder to build up. You have to work much harder with him to develop him to his full potential (as well as careful use of stat bonuses and skills gained from the Masters).
Garr is the tank of the game for those who want to speed run through the game and not spend too much time leveling up and hunting down the masters.
Peco is the tank of the game for those who want to explore every level of the gameplay system.

The best parties are Ryu, Momo, & Peco/Rei for bosses and Ryu, Rei, & Peco/Garr for dungeon crawling.

[Strike]

Didn’t you criticize me earlier that characters should always be compared at max levels to demonstrate their “true” potential? Now you’re claiming leveling up to 99 takes too long; I’m assuming you’re arguing that leveling up to 99 isn’t part of “normal play.” That was the exact argument I pointing out in all those FF6/Chrono Trigger discussion.

I don’t know much about the other BoF games besides BoF2, but in that game, Monster Island makes leveling up to Level 99 not nearly as tedious as you think… no more tedious than leveling up to 99 in that Dinosaur Forest in FF6 or fighting around in the Black Omen in Chrono Trigger IMO.

For the most part, I agree with your BoF2 list except for Bleu. She beats Nina at everything (this is not with powerleveling) except that Nina gets Banish late game. Nina’s Will should not even be considered because both Nina and Bleu have a truckload of AP and Will only gives back a pathetic amount anyway. Also, Bleu can be recruited as soon as you get the Whale, which is not even mid-game, and she joins at level 35, way beyond anyone in the group. She is top tier no question. If you take into account powerleveling, which you did with other games, Bleu is god tier because her stats max out.

[js2756]

Didn’t you criticize me earlier that characters should always be compared at max levels to demonstrate their “true” potential? Now you’re claiming leveling up to 99 takes too long; I’m assuming you’re arguing that leveling up to 99 isn’t part of “normal play.” That was the exact argument I pointing out in all those FF6/Chrono Trigger discussion.

I don’t know much about the other BoF games besides BoF2, but in that game, Monster Island makes leveling up to Level 99 not nearly as tedious as you think… no more tedious than leveling up to 99 in that Dinosaur Forest in FF6 or fighting around in the Black Omen in Chrono Trigger IMO.

Except in FF6 it only takes 6 fights at most in the Dino Forest for any character to go from lvl 98 to 99 and all those fights involve 1 attack (solo with Exp egg). More often than not, it will take significantly less since you can run into double Tyranosaurs for double the experience and it’s still a 1-hit kill. 3 fights involving 2 tyranosaurs will level a character from 98 to 99.

In BoF 2, it takes about 40 fights in monster island to do the equivalent, and the fights take longer since you can’t 1 hit kill the gongheads. Or, you could try the Infinity dungeon where it will take roughly 25 fights or so. This is assuming that only 1 character is alive to get the experience. At best, it will take 5 fights, assuming you’re lucky enough to run into 3 K. Slimes all the time, but this never happens and you still can’t 1-hit KO them.

So yeah, overlevelling in FF6 is a joke, whereas in other games, it’s a huge pain in the ass. This is why I consider overlevelling in FF6, and not other games.

[Strike]

Maybe you’re not playing the GBA version where EXP gains were multiplied by 4x. Also, in BoF2, EXP does not depend on the number of characters alive. You’re doing yourself a disservice if you kill off all party members and go solo since they are not gaining any more EXP than had everyone been alive.

So on Monster Island at high levels:
Gongheads: 1 turn kill with everyone attacking
A.Sludge: Death
Chorking: Chopchop
K.Sludge: G.Dragon + all-hit spell

The reason I came back into this topic was because you mentioned nothing about ease of powerleveling in the past. You were adamantly concerned with just judging things at max potential… not whether or not it’s “easy” to get to level 99. Admittedly, soloing Dinosaur Forrest will reach you to 99 faster than Monster Island; but you’re still devoting at least several hours for each of the 12 main characters doing this, which is a very noticeable diversion from just “normally” playing through the game from plot point to plot point. And in Chrono Trigger, level ups and battling are not nearly as fast as FF6, and yet you insisted on judging Ayla on her last fist ability. It just sounded a bit hypocritical to judge one game on max potential and not another.

[js2756]

Maybe you’re not playing the GBA version where EXP gains were multiplied by 4x. Also, in BoF2, EXP does not depend on the number of characters alive. You’re doing yourself a disservice if you kill off all party members and go solo since they are not gaining any more EXP than had everyone been alive.

So on Monster Island at high levels:
Gongheads: 1 turn kill with everyone attacking
A.Sludge: Death
Chorking: Chopchop
K.Sludge: G.Dragon + all-hit spell

The reason I came back into this topic was because you mentioned nothing about ease of powerleveling in the past. You were adamantly concerned with just judging things at max potential… not whether or not it’s “easy” to get to level 99. Admittedly, soloing Dinosaur Forrest will reach you to 99 faster than Monster Island; but you’re still devoting at least several hours for each of the 12 main characters doing this, which is a very noticeable diversion from just “normally” playing through the game from plot point to plot point. And in Chrono Trigger, level ups and battling are not nearly as fast as FF6, and yet you insisted on judging Ayla on her last fist ability. It just sounded a bit hypocritical to judge one game on max potential and not another.

No, I was basing this off the SNES version. I’m not sure why you mentioned Chrono Trigger, since I never once talked about it in this thread. I think you have me confused with someone else.

[system]

What about racing games?

Sega GT (DC): All about the NSX and the 240SX, if we are talking about factory cars. The Subaru WRX is upper mid tier also.

[G.O.T]

Been playing Breath of Fire games a lot recently, so tiers for some of the BoF games.

BoF 1:
god tier:
Ryu/Hero - Agni owns everything in this game, it’s effectively an “I win” spell.

Top tier:
Karn - morphs are the only other way without tons of level building of doing over 500 damage
Bleu - 400 damage for BoltX.

Mid tier:
Bow - best physical outside of Karn and Ryu, spells are good in the early game
Ox - decent damage, but slow
Nina - only good healer, made obsolete by Agni, spells cost a lot

bottom tier:
Mogu - average fighter, can’t do anything else
Gobi - only good as part of Karn’s morphs.

BoF II
top tier:
Ryu/Hero - solid all around, dragons are good for damage
Katt - best physical attacker with great speed (I think only Angel Nina has higher, but I could be wrong)
Rand - also solid all around, lacks in speed and AP, but Wake is one of the more useful skills in the game (whack your characters alive, woot!)

mid tier:
Nina - Angel Nina allows for escaping from any fight. High speed allows her to act before a lot of enemies. Will makes her more useful in long dungeons than Bleu.
Bleu - has Nina beat in terms of stats, but lacks the more useful Banish (Angel Nina) and Will (normal Nina) skills. Is also slower.
Bow - the healer of the party, but not a very good one because spells take way too much AP in this game. Is essentially a crappier version of Rand with more AP.
Sten - a crappier version of Katt, slower, weaker. Sweh is a neat skill if you’re trying to fight a particular monster, but if you run into a monster you don’t want to fight, you might as well use Banish.

bottom tier:
Jean - is only good in his super shaman Frogman form, except that his Chop skill takes two turns, and has the potential to miss. Katt is a much better choice.
Spar - weak all around, stat boosting magic isn’t all that useful, and that’s all he brings to the table.

BoF III:
god tier:
Ryu/Hero - dragon accession is better than anything any other character has to offer, nothing comes remotely close to how good it is.

top tier:
Rei - Weretiger does good damage, and he normally does good damage anyways. High speed plus Pilfer make Rei a solid character.
Momo - Excellent support character. Does solid damage, and she also has healing spells to compliment her support magic. Low defense, and a lack of AP hurt her though.

Mid teir:
Garr - physical attacker only. Is hurt by the fact that the Beast spear drains his health, making Momo a much better choice for bosses. Magic sucks.
Nina - black mage, is hurt by the fact that she doesn’t last through long dungeons, because she’ll drain her AP pretty quickly. Magic is very useful at times though.

bottom tier:
Peco - starts at a way lower level than everyone else, and even built up, the only thing he has going for him is his high HP. Best use for him is to get easy levels to learn master skills, otherwise, leave him on the bench.

not to sound stupid but tier bof 4. i thought fou lu was top tier for sure in that one even over ryu.

[System_1]

Shadow the Hedgehog 2p Mode tier list:

Top: Pink Metal Shadow, Blue Metal Shadow

Mid:Orange Metal Shadow, Green Metal Shadow

Low:Red Shadow, Orange Shadow

[kane_warhead]

Maybe it’s just when fighting the computer, but it’s almost impossible to make andre tap out. I remember me and two other friends did a 3 on 3 elimination tag and ended up all fighting andre. My jericho and his angle ganged banged his leg repeatedly (walls of jericho/ankle lock at least 5 times) so much so that he started a sliver away from submitting, but andre willed his way up no matter how hard me or him tapped. Also those stats are crap btw. Bret Hart behind triple H in tech? Triple H being tied with benoit? BULLSHIT. Even in real matches I don’t think he’s EVER used a submission to win. Outside the ring he isn’t going toe to toe with benoit or bret hart period.

stats are bullshit anyway.

It all depends on the moveset.

anyone with a boot to the face move is up there IMO

[roninwarrior24]

Uhh, what are the tiers for Mario Kart Double Dash, if there are any? I just got the game yesterday, and I want to be a cheap tier whore with this game so I can dominate. Any help? Also, what are the tiers for…

Tales of Symphonia (my old list means nothing. I want to know from you)
Dragon Quest VII
Atelier Iris (again, my tier list means nothing, although Klein looks godly IMO)
F-Zero GX
Riviera
Skies of Arcadia

Also, not neccessary a tier question, but what’s the most broken way to play FF2j? I’ve heard lots of things about the Blood Swords, but that’s only for the final dungeon.

[FatalFuryD]

Skies of Arcadia

Well, the thing is that you have no choice, but to use whoever you got atm. But yeah, here’s what I think.

main:
Aika is No.1 for sure.

Vyse
Fina
Drachma
Enrique
Gilder

Speed buff and Magic together rule this game. Aika, in a three-member or bigger party often just can wipe out everything with alpha storm and lamda burst(later game) before anything else flinches. She has naturally good magic defense. Vyse is pretty close to Aika because his Techniques are cheap, and he’s fast, plus he charges more Spirit than anyone else. He has the best equips too. Cutlass Fury(100% accuracy) is incredibly useful against the enemies that have high dodge and high magic defense. Everyone else is more or less the same. Fina’s 3SP tech is good because it petrifies something for a pretty good accuracy… which to me, it feels like close to half the times. She’s used for mainly spells IMO, but if you follow cupil-blade-cannon-club-lance-pan-weight-ultimate path she’s alright. Basically the more times cupil evolves, the better. She’s likely to be the one to max out magic first, also. Drachma sucks because his specials are costly and not that powerful(ultimate tech has poor accuracy, also), but he has 2x chaging special that comes in handy sometimes. Enrique is the weaker Vyse the way I see it; it’s difficult to out level him to Vyse.

Gilder though, I can’t give this guy any credit. Anyone else’s magic is better than using his techs, and his magic stats suck. His techs are so hilariously badly animated that they’re worth looking at for like twice and that’s it.

Not gonna bother with crew, because you can either choose to build your crew so it can do a lot of damage on regular battle, or build it so you can do well on ship battle and it’s just balanced enough that it doesnt matter that much IMO. Most everyone is equal, but there are like two exceptions whose names I don’t remember.

[G.O.T]

GUNSTAR HEROES-
Top Tier
Fixed Shot+Green Chaser Beam+Fire Shot
Dive Kicks
Sliding

Mid Tier
Throwing
Everything else

Shit Tier
Straight Laser

Gunstar Super Heroes-

Top Tier-
Gunstar Blue
His super of his main weapon has mad range and can be directed everywhere. Plus its the most balanced weapon he has good for all situations.

Bottom-
Gunstar Red
She has speed, and her regular shot of her main weapon is better than blue’s but in boss battles she fails because her main weapon’s super shot sucks ass and uses alot of her energy blast bar.

Legend of the Mystical Ninja

Top
Kid Ying-
I been playing this side-scroller since i was 11. Fuck tiers this like my taste buds right here. Kid Ying owns everything when you collect your 2nd power up without getting hit by something. if you get your 3rd powerup you just about fucked up. the yo-yo has the worst lag time…youll get hit by an enemy when it comes back to you. so for kid ying:

Top-2nd Powerup weapon (The peacepipe is god)
Mid-3rd Powerup weapon
Bottom-1 st powerup weapon

Oh Yeah. When you finally get to the stages where you learn Judo. thats top tier too. too bad you can only use it in certain areas.

Bottom-Dr. Yang
Fuck Dr. Yang. his stars, and 3rd powerup is all that makes him good.

Batman & Robin adventures-

Top to Bottom
Star (damaging-travels across screen)
Jump Kick
Throwing
Bomb (short range)
Gas---->Spray (stuns enemy)
Punches
Batarang

Guardian Heroes
Top to Bottom
Sky Spirit
Valgar
Ginjirou
Super Zur
Zur
Randy
Serena
Macho
Kanon
G. Silver
Sword Han
P. Silver
Han
Undead Hero
everything else

Can someone tier
Dragon Force, Ragnarok, and tales of symphonia?

[System_1]

Spawn: In the Demon’s Hand 4P mode tier list: (I don’t know the ranks in the tiers, just so you know.)

God Tier: Black Brimstone

Top Tier: Grace, Spawn IV, Soleil, Angel Teneres, Admonisher,Jessica, Spawn, Twitch, Al Simmons,

Mid Tier: D.A. Spawn, Tremor, Brimstone, Tiffany, Redeemer, Coglisotro, Clown, Sam,

Low Tier:The Curse, Hellspawn, Army A, Angels E, Green Beret A, Skeleton 1

Bottom Tier:Zombie 1, Wolf 1, Curse Sub, Soldier 1, The Mafia