Agree and disagree. Whether to character lock in tourney is debatable (not every game is balanced. no character change for a TVC tourney may not be a good idea)
But this counter pick culture is part of the reasons that japan is always ahead of US (I’m not saying that japanese do not counter pick, but this is not their norm).
I have seen many good players (there are quite a lot of and I won’t name names) that reach the plateau to become really great, because even in casual play, when they lose badly (and partly because of the peer pressure from others calling them suck), they just switch to another character instead of using this as a chance to break the barrier and find new ways to beat that matchup.
Also I realized another thing when SFII is only playable at the arcade.
When you keep losing and keep coming back at the arcade, you’re considered perseverant. Maybe because each continue costs you a quarter.
But with online free play, if you lose more than 10 games, the other guy would probably be making fun of you unless he is real nice.
We don’t know enough about hdr classic to dismiss it just like that, it could be a good substitute when cps2 is not available.
I already gave an example of how a character lock tourney helped me improve, being into a situation you would normally avoid and having to fight out of it should help you. Though I wouldn’t suggest we run that format here right now because in my opinion as a scene we aren’t ready for that
If you have an XBox or PS3 but not a PC or a CPSII setup, how are you supposed to play ST? HDR classic mode seems like it would be a good choice in those circumstances, which probably fits a lot of people.
I think it would be nice if evo would use the old ST machines like they did in evo 2k2. There a lot of them btw:karate:. This way we dont have to worry about stick issues cause there stick only works on xbox but its a ps3 tourney type of issue or the classic mode on hdr or having to use DC version.
It’ll open up another shitstorm of which ST game is really ST. Were you around 2006-2007 when everyone and their mom was crying about which console version of ST to play? Eventually you’ll get enough people to vote on Dreamcast ST or whatever, and then some OG comes in here and says “DC ST is fucking garbage, Arcade ST is the only version worth playing.”
The OGs are unpleasable in the current environment. And its not the random OGs who have stopped playing for like 10 years and pop-up into a thread just to troll. These are people who make top 8 at evo for insert-version of SFII every year, so their opinions carry a ton of weight, probably way more than anyone who posts in this thread/forum in regards to making things happen for Evo (with like 2 exceptions, fmj being one of them)
For whats its worth i play HDR classic mode all the time cause my local scene is of the opinion that ST>>>HDR, and both version feel the same to me. O.Gat has gdlk fireballs, Repeated wall-dive knockdowns are :looney:, and throw loops are
I’d complain more but i’m ecstatic whenever we can get more than 10 people to agree on which version of SFII to play for a local tournmanent.
If you did this I would nigh guarantee that SFII would draw close to the fewest numbers of entrants for Evo, unlike now where its been the #2 game two years in a row.
Well, I’ll pass over your comment about how people’s opinion in this thread are basically irrelevant and ask: what do you think the relative chances are of ST being at Evo in the form of either 1) CPSII setups or 2) Console setups using HDR classic mode? Perhaps that explains why I’m personally not ready to arbitrarily ditch HDR classic mode quite yet.
Classic mode would pull in about the same amount of entrants in my opinion, you would lose some people that want hdr only,but bring back the st only crowd or the new guys from ggpo that didn’t get to play it back in the day at evo, and keep those that don’t have a preference. You might even get a few new people if you hype it as the “return to traditition”
Hd has not been this tournament powerhouse at evo, it brings in 300 out of 1500 people in the building, many whom are the casual audience that hdr was supposed to attract. Not to mention all are people that own a xbox/ps3 and like street fighter in some fashion.
HDR classic is a good effort (like I said, it’s probably the only choice for ST fans at Evo for the foreseeable future) but if the US wants to have the best shot at Tougeki in upcoming years, months of practice solely on offline CPS2 ST is a must. Rambo, have you played HDR since you got back? Having not touched HDR since Evo and being used to arcade ST’s timing, HDR on PS3 felt almost foreign to me. Extra input lag was also very noticeable: link combo timing definitely doesn’t match the picture (I’d be willing to bet any amount of money on that).
I didn’t try the 360 version in-depth so I’m not sure if that suffers from the same. But if that version, along with every other ST port, feels different, then it would be no surprise to me. Only now can I fully appreciate how bad CCC2 must have been for JP ST players who came for Evo. I’ve interchanged between all of these versions (in addition to online) in the past and things didn’t feel that different but it seems you really don’t notice the disparity until you stick with one version for awhile against top-level competition. Mildly analogous to playing with multiple characters, you can be a jack of all versions but really getting familiar with one version and playing your best isn’t an easy process you can master in a week.
Also, one of the things I didn’t mention in my Tougeki topic was that when playing head-to-head on JP candy cabs, arcade monitors are a lot bigger and close-up than at home so you actually have to shift your eyes around. The control panel is fixed at a certain height and you can’t stretch your legs out. And the arcade volume is a bit louder than normal (always mono on the cabs I paid attention to; no “Sonic…Boom” here). Even my supergun doesn’t simulate all these external factors but it’s good that they’re very quickly adapted to become second nature (except the stick type). Luckily, there’s an ST cab near where I live so I was somewhat familiar with all that but anyone experiencing these for the first time and hoping to compete in a day would undoubtedly be hit with some unfamiliarity.
As for comp here in the west, we all have an idea of what people favor what version. We also understand that versions closer to arcade ST require more logistical hurdles so folks will have to gauge the feasibility and their own determination. I didn’t link this topic to cause a ruckus. In fact, I was originally against creating this link here, anticipating that negativity would result, until Rambo and damdai convinced me that the information and spirit it might spread would outweigh the downsides. The best people could do to support their ideal of SF2 would be to show up to regional tourneys when they can. Posting messages and playing online maintain an online presence but have almost zero effect on what will be run at tourneys and if a game will remain in the scene. If nothing else, every single SF2 tourney player around will agree with the need for more offline participation and be happy to see new faces. So for all you predominantly online fans, if that thought of not making a difference nags you the next time you click that “Reply” button, then I’ve done my job.
As an official Evo Tourney? 0%. Luckily for most diehards who want to play true Arcade ST, someone almost always brings a cab/supergun to evo every year. A local vegas player even brings his supergun set-up to local tournies, its pretty cool.
5% chance. There aren’t nearly enough people who are in favor of classic mode as opposed to regular HDR to warrant a change (by the Evo standards anyway).
As a fun a little project, seeing how the #6, and maybe the #5 game at evo are probably going to get voted in next like mvc2 and melty blood were voted in this year, I wonder what would happen if HDR and HDR classic mode were two separate games that were allowed during the vote-in.
My prediction? Neither game would make it in cause it would split the SFII voter community and warrant not enough votes on either side.
Also @Rambo. I was trying argue that an ARCADE ST only tourney would alienate a ton of the HDR players (and not classic mode v hdr). Of the 35 or so people in the pool i judged in, 10 of them were pad players. One of the used a Fightpad too, he also won the whole HDR tourney .
Also I consider HDR a pretty big powerhouse seeing as ST was only averaging around 100-150 players in the previous three tournies and then all of sudden BLAM, 300 people turnouts 2 years in a row. You can attribute this to people who are residuals of SF4, but of the dozen or so people i talked to in my hdr pool, most of them considered hdr there “main game” and only entered sf4 for shits and giggles, if they entered sf4 at all.
However, at some point there a limit of practicality and logic must be met. Getting CPS2 ST back will not happen for the majority of the players. As much as I respect the Japanese scene, and as much I wish we could replicate many parts of it. The simple truth is we can’t. Our scene IS different. Our logistic challenges alone are to much more difficult to overcome.
As much as I love ST, it is not worth the time and energy to play the arcade CPS 2 version anymore in my life on any kind of consistent basis. It’s not that I don?t want to, there just isn?t enough time once you factor in real life. Being in relationship, running a business, being involved in a family, having friends outside of the SF community limits the amount of time I can dedicate to SF. If you add hours of travel time to try and play on the arcade CSP2 version on consistent basis and suddenly there is no time for it.
At some point if you’re going to get ST back on the national stage and at EVO you?re going to have to make some concessions. i.e. HDR classic, MAME/FBA ST, GGPO ST, etc. Otherwise (as much as I hate to say it) for much of the USA, CPS2 ST is dead or dying.
My person goal would be to see ST revived in the USA (WC & EC). Then if that happens, we can start to fine tune the scene and start working towards SBO, X-Mania, & etc. Remember if you?re trying to build something, you create the foundation, and then begin to refine it.
Uh, perhaps you didn’t notice but CPS2 ST is now the main SF2 platform for every EC tourney in the near future (SB in Ohio, Xanadu monthlies in Baltimore, NEC in Philly, Howard’s ranbats in CT). Excepting perhaps Thelo (who comes from Canada often), the main players attending EC SF2 tourneys have been unanimous in supporting the move.
But like I said earlier, if you’re on WC, there seem to be weeklies in both NorCal and SoCal (and no classic ST comp I know of) so certainly, if you live in Cali, I encourage folks to go support their local HDR scene. There seem to be plenty of offline players in your area who prefer HDR so if the majority is fine with that, go with it. Any SF2 version kept going is good.
You know how every game sub-forum on this site has a little description underneath it when you click on its link? I think ST’s is “Come talk about you favorite Old School game”
The chance is that of a person contacting EVO, state that he or she will provide the needed setups (read buy, maintain and pay to get them all to wherever EVO takes place, which we suppose will be Vegas) and give guarantees, through a contract. That times the chance of them accepting.
I’m really curious about something. I’ve heard on a few ocassions that there are “HDR-only players.” Who are those guys? Seriously, I’d like to know. All the people that I know and have spoke to who “happen” to being playing HDR right now would play any version of SF2. So, if someone has names…post up! Or if you’re reading this and you fall into that distinction, post up as well :karate: I’ve been curiuos about that for quite some time now…
As far as the whole CPS2…that is not a viable option going forward IF you want to promote growth for SF2. It’s a nice novelty for the group of players that enjoy it, but you cannot use it as a tool for increasing the size of the SF2 scene. I mean, how many actual ST boards are there? Several thousand? 10,000? Is that it? CPS2 is only viable if:
-Every player can actually get a board (whether it’s 2,000 players or 50,000 players) and a supergun/cab
-Every tourney organizer in each part of the country has access to a multitude of boards/superguns/cabs
-The Jamma adapter will be have to be updated. It has to support USB going forward. Sure, some might say, well get Toodles board…well, that’s a good stick solution, BUT it doesn’t solve the pad players dilemma.
Using cabs going forward is fail, unfortunately. There are just too many variables.
Again, I don’t really care which game is chosen honestly. I just want to ensure that the SF2 scene continues to grow REGARDLESS of what game is chosen.
Oh yea, I better not hear anyone say use an emulator as a solution for offline play either :annoy:
It is obvious, the only current console versions are X360/PS3 HDR/HD Classic (I like PS2 AE CapKore edition but not everyone does).
The ball was on capcom usa’s court few years ago and they mis-managed the project (I’m not discussing HDR good/bad, just that it wasn’t well received by everyone)
Unfortunately we as fans can only do so much. We do not own the IP.
To grow the scene given the dilemma we’re in is tough.
So for the time being, why not enjoy whatever version you can locally (offline) and online?
BTW, besides legal issue, what is the problem with offline fba play?
I have tested it frame by frame and there is zero input lag, and it plays almost like cps2 version compare to DC / HDR classic / PS2.
And to use your custom controller on CPS2, you don’t necessarily need Toodles’ board. Any PSX compatible controller (pad or stick) can be wired with jamma, but that is besides the point.
Despite legal ramifications (which 99% [i.e. people who don’t own the arcade set/rom of what they are playing] of GGPO players apparently have no issue with)… why isn’t this being looked at? If the hardcore OGs don’t want anything but CPS2, this might be the only real, viable way for them to go at it. Emulation (especially for 80s/90s arcade hardware) has gotten pretty damn accurate, and I don’t hear too many complaints about Final Burn’s emulation accuracy on GGPO.
.