I have never understood people’s fascination with tier lists. People end up endlessly bickering about character rankings and arguing about minutae like whether so-and-so character fits into such-and-such a ranking. How about: spend less time whining about the game, your “weak” character, your opponent’s “overpowered” character, and more time learning, improving and studying minutae of matchups. That would benefit the scene so much more than the pointless discussion that runs in neverending circles.
I don’t know if it’s a cultural thing, like the concept of “gaman”, but Japanese players persevere more in learning character matchups, and hence have a deeper understanding of the game. I think it’s the lack of ego inherent to their culture. If they take a heavy beating, they don’t let it get to them, and they instead focus on what areas they can improve, what counters to use in troublesome situations, and so on.
i’m curious - actually why is this the case and where are people getting stuff from to say this? is this a fact?
what is the story with EC sticking with ST and not HDR? (and when you say “EC”, i’m assuming you mean a majority of active street fighter players that are keeping the scene alive). correct me if i’m wrong but let’s go back to when hdr was released. anticipation was high because we were finally getting the game. people knew that there would be modifications and that this was not going to be exactly ST. the game comes out so it’s played, analyze, etc. tournaments on EC and WC start popping up with HDR tournaments in the lineup. on the WC a majority of players like the game enough and they roll with it so it stays as the standard platform of competition when it comes to having a form of ST in tournaments. while on the EC, they include HDR in the tournament lineups. for whatever reason, a majority DON’T like it, so it’s scrapped. ST is put back in… and tournament attendance/participation for ST is bigger so obviously stick with the game that draws the crowd and the comp. is that what happened?
snk-player, not quite. Basically what happens is that for the most part, EC tourneys do use HDR, but attendance is low. So some guys use that as a pretext to say that EC “prefers old ST”, but really it’s just a matter of people not showing up to tourneys at all, HDR or old ST. I can’t think of a single EC tourney yet that featured HDR then went back to ST - you could argue that Seasons Beatings is one, kind of, but it hasn’t even happened yet.
nice try thelo, but your quite wrong. I am here and i know the players and community here.
hdr was adopted into tournaments because it became the evo standard and smaller events followed that, when it is run it is often beaten in numbers by umk3 and alpha2. it is only now that they are switching to st, at summer jam in philly st received 3x the attendance of hdr. ghaleon and the guys running sb are not biased og die hard st players, they talked to members of the community and decided that st would be the best choice for their event based on feedback. The majority of the tournament attending community prefer st, but you shouldnt trust me…ask around yourself
We have been having big offline gatherings every weekend for months and will start streaming them, i hope you watch
i mean, japan is 1 thing though and i kind of question this observation. i know over there for say tekken, ssf4, vf, etc. some arcades cater to specific games and people there know this and they flock to where their respective game is located. i remember back in the day my friend came back and brought videos from a tekken arcade he went to in japn. from what i saw, you would think that tekken was the most popular game in the world, but at that time even i knew that VF was THE game in japan as far as popularity. like… so many machines in 1 spot and so many people playing. but back to usa, sadly there is no arcade scene and it’s even more difficult to find an st setup.
give me a better idea of what you are talking about here, like estimated numbers if you don’t have exact count. when you say “3x the attendance” for an st tourney, how many is that? 20 people? 30? more?
how many usually show up at your gatherings for st, head count? i just ask cuzz some people on here talk like there’s a vast pool of players lurking in the shadows. it’s almost like a smurf village, they’re there, u just gotta get lucky and find them offline
@snk-player. like i said, st often makes the top 10 most played arcade games list(not just fighting games) every month there, now if you think about how many games are available to be played there and how many new games come out there, thats pretty huge
you want me to prove that st is the prefered game on the east coast? this is a total fact, just look at the posts on here by people in the scene or by those on the outside looking in and the basically no resistance from anyone to this idea; you should make threads with the titles “the west coast prefers st over hdr!” and second thread “the east coast prefers st over hdr”, sit back with some popcorn and watch the amazing results
or simply just ask some people which they prefer
i dont know where your from but if you want to play offline send me a pm
i’m just saying man, i want to get a better idea of the scene there. no need to get defensive. you mention stuff like “3x the attendance of hdr” etc etc and “big offline” gatherings, but i just want numbers so i can judge for myself in relation to what i experience out here.
i stay on the westcoast/norcal, and although many say WC prefers HDR, i find it difficult to even find people down to play the game. there’s probably pockets of players here and there scatter all over california, but the scene is not big (not big as say, relative to tekken or ssf4 for example). within 30 miles of me, theres maybe 3 - 8 players i know who are down to play hdr offline - but not on a consistent basis. getting all those people together to play at a specific time is almost impossible. at best, maybe 1 or 2 people i can battle with offline and maybe 3 or 4 would play hdr offline, but there would have to be other setups of games being played (ssf4, tekken, etc - it’s never just pure hdr/st).
regarding st, i have not played the game in awhile. i used to battle coworkers at work because i had a dreamcast setup, but it’s been a long LONG while.
hdr, i would play u online on ps3… but obviously, you wouldn’t be down for that i think
with the internet, i take it with a grain of salt. you see alot of people on these boards talking, discussing the game, etc… and many sound knowledgeable and stuff, but usually there’s alot more people on here chatting and talking than there are actually down to play (i kind of wonder myself how good a majority of these posters are, for the simple fact that some of the best players in various games that i’ve played… rarely post much). but if ST is indeed the popular game out there where u stay, than more power to that. i just want a better picture of the scene you speak of.
aqua snake, i stay in/near san francsisco area of norcal. i don’t think i will be making any socal tourneys to be honest. i haven’t been to any tournaments in a long time actually either. maybe the last was around the time when hdr was released
All these people that you said that weren’t good (which is the majority of people. Who have ever made top 8 of EVO? or enter SBO?), their opinion or preference are worthless, right?
That is not a question BTW. When someone made a topic on this forum earlier that said `HDR is dead’. It was quickly shot down, and I quote Thelo
Obviously you care if a potential player love HDR or not, regardless his skill is (or potentially) good or bad, because every FG would die when the player base shrink.
Go back to 2007 before HDR is released. Who are the people that would most likely sign up on the HDR camp and make it a successful game? Completely new players who have never play SF2 or those that have a fond memory of SF2 (and a lot of those are ST players)? And which camp have more people? (Tips: why HDR has 2nd largest turnout @ EVO. where do these people come from?)
BTW, just for reference, below is a list of people who made top 8 @ EVO or have entered SBO, plus a few universally recognized japanese experts that are active on HDR XBL (Aniken called it HD instead HDR, wonder why?)
Feel free to use your judgement to put these names under the following 3 categories:
Prefer ST
Don’t have a preference, will play either
Would prefer HDR over ST
PS: I could be wrong, but I suddenly realize why some people are frustrated with HDR vs ST debate on this forum, but not on ST forum, is that they know the truth, but they cannot admit it publicly
Alex “CaliPower” Valle
Alex “Sin” Salguero
Alex Wolfe
Aniken
Buktooth
DGV
DSP
Daigo Umehara
Damien “Damdai” Dailidenas
David Sirlin
Ganelon
Gian
Graham Wolfe
Hung “Afro Legends” Nguyen
Jason Cole "afrocole"
Jason Nelson
Jesse Howard
John Choi
John Rambo
Justin Wong
Kuni
Kusumondo
Louis “Thelo” Paquin
Mike Watson
Muteki
NKI
Ohnuki Shinya "Nuki"
Professor Jones
RyRy
Seth Killian
Shirts
Snake Eyez
Tokido
Wes Truelson
Yuu Vega
There is a FUCKING good reason why people shouldnt post any ST related in the FUCKING HDR forum, good job Ganelon for trolling this thread, now its all about a shitstorm, next time you have the BRIGHT idea of doing it again, you should consider of this:
Once you make the link to ST forums plain and simple lock the thread (or inmediately find someone with powers to lock it, whatever).
Even this thread gets more replies than the link you added in the beginning, go figure.
Ps. I see others threads have been locked recently with less shit than this one, mod failing much? If someone still cares, close it please?
It’s been pretty civil, actually. You seem to be the one with the attitude problem. This is the first time, ive seen ST players talk to the HDR players, without saying hdr sucks for various reasons. It’s actually a discussion, which is pretty cool.
Not to be a douche bag but if you have problems with the thread, dont view.
I think Rambo, Tecmo, and Biran hit it right on the money and i agree 100 percent with everything they said. If you have a problem with the matchups, learn them. If you can’t do that, this game isn’t for you.
It’s good to see more people realizing that the only relevant version of ST is the CPS2 one. Hopefully this will help more people to understand that there is really only ‘CPS2 ST’ and ‘Console HDR’, and we can retire these hybrid versions like classic mode HDR and DC ST from the scene.
OTOH, the worst part of these japan trips is always the suggestion that there is a correlation between single elim or character lock and skill level. It’s not even ‘part of the reason’, it’s literally 0% of the reason Japan is good.
If you moved all the competent players in the usa to california, and had them play 3/5 tournaments with mandatory random select, they would still be on par with japan and the current top us players.
It’s human nature for us to want to “keep up with the Joneses” and take shortcuts to build a strong scene, but it only takes us backwards, and gives up the advantages of the US scene to be a weak copy of someone else.
Of course we can incorporate US style tournaments into japan or Japan style tournaments into the US scene, but as an expansion of the scene, not an attempt to ‘correct’ what’s already there.
