Are you suggesting that when the XBox720/PS4 come out that HDR will be dead in its tracks because it won’t be on those platforms? If so, I’d like to remind you that the XBox360, and the original PS3’s, had backwards compatibility and could run AE, CvS2, etc. I suspect next generation hardware will provide the same features, so I don’t see a big problem there. Or did I misunderstand your point?
The other constant we have is that Evo is a console-only tournament. To me, that seems like a big hurdle. Let’s pretend that 100% of the SF2 fans were in unanimous agreement that we should play arcade ST. Even if that were the case, do you really think they’d run that? And if they did, how would that affect people who play on pad and/or who can only reasonably practice online with HDR?
You say it’s the only strategy, but I just don’t understand the logistics. Realistically, NE, SoCal, NorCal, Seattle, Vegas, and maybe 1 or 2 other pockets of players could get together and practice arcade ST. I suspect that makes up roughly 50~75 players. So what about the other 250 that enter at Evo? I’m curious, how do you see this working?
I think his point is that no console games survive as the console died. At least I cannot think of a competitive game (fg, racing, sports) that is still being played today that is two generation old.
Some ps2 games are still being played at BYOC as you can still buy ps2 games and accessories from fry’s, gamestop, etc. But as soon as ps4 is out, ps2 will bite the dust like ps1, n64, etc.
Except for side tourney, I don’t even see ps2 games being featured in any major now. So basically all ps2 fg are gone forever (as far as tournament play), even though like you said, it should still be playable on those ps3 that are running ssf4.
And the backward compatibility is a marketing gimmick and a big lie. First generation PS3 has a chip that can help play ps2 games but even then people have found a list of games that are unplayable. Then they remove that chip and use software emulation. And now it’s basically not supported anymore.
There are also reports that ps2 games have additional lags when running on ps3.
EVO is console only not because it is made to be a console-only event. It is the current solution that they found to solve the logistic issues.
There are other ways to solve that problem but it’s just not there yet.
Before henry ford cars are built rather inefficiently.
I suggest this before, if all the events/ matches are arranged by a computer program at run time, it is possible that we don’t have to say, run game x exclusively from 9am-3pm and then game y exclusively from 3pm-8pm.
If you have seen how successful restaurant franchise streamline their business you should know what i mean.
People spend so much money travel to EVO and another big chunk on lodging and food. Ideally we should let people play all the fighting games they wanted (as long as there are enough number to support each game)
The people are already there. It is just the logistic problem that we need to solve to let them play all these games:
To be honest , NCR’s line up is rather disappointing. Only 3 games being featured. It doesn’t even sound like a major.
While SBR is trying to run as much games as possible and even though I cannot attend (while I can go to NCR), I’m much more excited about SBR because of all these games being featured.
There is no way to prove it unless we poll all the HDR entrants. But I suspect that a lot of people enter because it is convenient.
It has the 2nd largest turnout because to be honest who doesn’t know how to play sf2?
250 / 1600 = 15%
I bet there are more than 15% of people playing ssf4 who have played sf2 before.
Let’s say if there is a HDR only event 2 days before or 2 days after EVO, it will really show how many people are really there for the game. 2 days is enough hassle to drive away all but only serious HDR players.
[ edit: actually I found a way, not to prove it but at least we can see the correlation.
if ponder can provide us with the registration data, minus all the personal info (names, location, etc), we can plot a chart / make an excel spreadsheet to see how many people enter HDR only, and how many people enter HDR + other games.
If there is a strong trend that high percentage of HDR entrant also enter SSF4, it is a good clue to support that theory. ]
Yes, exactly. But even though that argument makes perfect sense you can’t make it! I’m beginning to realize that this is not a rational discussion in the sense that we can discuss logistics and such. This is an ideological debate in the manner of two religions arguing who has the “one true faith”.
So the EC runs ST at most of their tournies, the WC runs HDR, the midwest seems somewhat split (seems some do ST, some do HDR, some do both. I’ve been to ST-only and HDR-only just around my area). So the question is, who cares? As long as SF2 is being played. I think HDR is the best bet for growth, but I can see Ganelon’s point. If the EC HDR players aren’t showing up tournies, but the ST ones are, who can blame them for going arcade ST? That’s on the EC HDR guys. Ganelon has already said they’d switch to HDR if people came out.
But basically as long as whatever is being played in that area is bringing in players it doesn’t really matter. As long as SF2 is being kept alive. EVO will stay console and play HDR and the ST-only regions will just have to adjust when they go. It’s really not that hard at all to go back and forth between the two (at least for me). It may be harder for some characters like Sim, Cammy, Fei (but there are no ST Fei and Cammy players so it doesn’t matter, Ha!).
If we could get all the online players to show up HDR would be the game of choice, but in some areas, for whatever reason, they aren’t. I’m starting to think the EC playing ST, the WC playing HDR, and the midwest doing whatever doesn’t really matter anymore.
Well, since my post was directed towards online-focused players who feel they have a right to comment on the offline scene, then great, my post worked and you’re admitting to being part of the group that I was determined to pressure. I’m sure it’s easier to criticize the messenger rather than focusing on what you can do to revive your local scene. If you want, feel free to blame me. I’ll gladly be the bad guy if you’ll be determined enough to prove me wrong. You’ve provided some good information on SF2 online with a blog and YBH scans and have even played offline so it does sadden me that you ended up being one of the players who fit my target.
As for elitism, I chose not to make a single judgment or opinion on SRK until after I won my first offline tourney. I felt anything less would make my posts ignorant without any credibility so I mostly just lurked for 6 years itching to speak my piece but refraining from doing so every time, even after winning multiple online tourneys and taking 2nd numerous times offline. Pretty much all my posts have been from these past couple of years where I have the confidence to say my piece without backing down to anyone.
Now, I don’t expect the same from others but I do respect a person’s opinions on par with his level of competitive commitment (either current or past). Maybe that’ll give you an idea of the environment I came from and why if I sound sanctimonious to you, then I’ve patiently waited for the time to express myself in this manner. I’m really surprised that you think online is equal to or better than offline since it’s an opinion shared by very few, not even many of the biggest online-only players. But like I said, I don’t believe you’re thinking clearly yet.
Anyway, I only write long posts because there’s plenty to consider and a lot of points I need to make behind everything I say. If you really look at the points I made, they’re still waiting for answers. What makes you pessimistic without seeing a similar situation before? Do you have a better strategy to propose? Do you really accept online-only play as the future of SF2? Are you so confident of your ability to make a knowledgeable and balanced opinion? Is there any real standard in online play?
For example, you just came to the realization that there’s an ideological debate between ST and HDR. But actually, right now, there’s nothing close to a war amongst people who play SF2 offline. While some do prefer one version or are concerned about the viability of another, it’s as mad possum said: we’re all pleased to see SF2 living on and watching how the next year unfolds. But the blur of online vision has many here focusing on the perceived discord and is preventing these folks from seeing that harmony. The key to advancing the scene isn’t to write posts commenting on the separation but rather to play and show that the game has a great future ahead. SF2 has survived almost 2 decades based primarily off competitive play; it’s on the shoulders of the dedicated to keep it going strong.
I know what he’s saying, but it’s like trying to argue with a religious fanatic.
And it’s hard to get past his narcissism and self-pity. For example:
“I chose not to make a single judgment or opinion on SRK until after I won my first offline tourney. I felt anything less would make my posts ignorant without any credibility … even after winning multiple online tourneys and taking 2nd numerous times offline.”
Yeah you found some counter examples. But like I said, it is not a proof but you can see the correlation.
There are 1600 ssf4 entrants and 250 hdr entrants.
Do you think 200 out of 250 HDR players entering ssf4 is more likely than 200 out of 1600 ssf4 players entering HDR?
it might not be accurate but you get the idea.
[BTW why you do want the VLX stick, didn’t you play on pad also like snake eyez? =]
Geo, I agreed that these seem condescending if you take apart what he said like that (and also on the receiving end of it). But I feel that you’re overly sensitive with what people say online sometime (like last time you think I’m salty with the throw range chart, that really makes me scratch my head).
I agree with Ganelon that offline discussion might be more fruitful because you can feel the emotion and people will not take it the wrong way so easily.
It’s just me thinking that what Ganelon said means no harm.
Well, yeah, like I explained in that post, I don’t believe our opinions on this matter are of equal quality so if you noticed condescension, then it’s intended. If the discussion was on identifying universal names for special moves, then I’d treat everyone’s opinion as equal. Or if you reignited the Seattle scene and started playing consistently offline, then I would certainly pipe down, be happy, and treat your opinions on the future of the scene with respect.
It’s always easier to attack another person’s character rather than addressing points (pun behold, or even better, just taking my advice to play offline more) and by resorting to the former approach, it’s pretty clear you’re either not great at piecing logical thought or are currently a victim of your emotions. It certainly seems like right now, you’re fixated more on me than about supporting the game. If you plan to respond, it may serve you better to wait a day to express unclouded sentiments.
Based on past posts, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, because I understand it’s easy to start acting rude online to people you’ve never met and because it’s clear you haven’t ever felt the perspective of a tourney player who dreams of making his scene better. I suppose I helped cause this sort of sentiment too by posting too many opinions here on SRK; perhaps I’ll join NKI and nh2 in the great beyond someday. Whatever you choose to do, for the time being, I’ll keep playing my thing and I’ll still encourage everyone else to join up with their local comp like I’ve always done. Like I said, I’ll take 100 online enemies if 1 new player is motivated to compete offline.
@ Geo. It is clear and understood that you disapprove with Ganelon posts. I am all for the freedom to express ones opinion, even if it is in disapproval of another. We are all aware of your feelings and perspective about Ganelon?s posts. I hope we can let it go and move on. This thread has had some great discussion, and as we have seen many times in the past, good threads can get wrecked fast.
I don’t have any issues with Ganelon’s post. (1) They are his opinions. (2) He isn’t attacking anybody directly. (4) Makes some good points. (4) I take on-line context lightly. It is SOeasy to misinterpret the intentions of a post.
As I stated, everyone reading this thread is now very aware of your disapproval on Ganelon’s post. There is no reason to keep bringing it up.
Are we able keeping the conversion positive and productive? I would like too because over the last few pages there was some real discussion and exchanging of ideas. Let?s keep it up.
Ok, I am kind of late to this, but does damdai’s argument in favor of using arcade cabinets really go like this?
“Consoles eventually get obsolete / harder to find and use, so let’s use arcade cabinets instead.”
Surely there is something I’m missing here, because that cannot actually be the argument. Saying that specific cabinets would be easier to find and use than a specific mass-produced console in ten years (as opposed to roughly a thousand times harder to find / use) would be kind of crazy opposite land logic, right? I must be misunderstanding something here, please help me out.
On a related note, can someone explain why playing on a cabinet is actually better than playing on a console? I’m not trying to be a hater here, this is an honest question from a guy who has never played in actual arcades (though I’ve played on cabinets a few times). So far the only answer I have to that is “Japan plays on cabinet, which is slightly different from console, so if you want to directly compete against them then it’s wise to get used to the feel of cabinets.”
It was about 300 people actually. Small correction.
I do see where you’re coming from though.
Even if they play SSF4 as their main and HDR as their secondary, it’s still a good thing. Would those players that entered EVO travel to enter an HDR only tourney? Probably not. But I think players from other fighting game communities wouldn’t travel out for their game (Tekken and Soul Calibur players would probably be the exception) if SSF4 wasn’t there.
As much as I hate SSF4, we do need it to grow the SF2 community since it brought players into fighting games. Luckily for us, SSF4 and SF2 are the same series so it’s easier for SSF4 players to jump into SF2 than other fighting games. That’s an advantage for us.
It’s a glorious day when someone is playing SSF4 and HDR/ST which at that moment, something clicks into their minds…
They look at HDR/ST…
They look at SSF4…
And I want that Hori stick because for the hell of it! Snake Eyez doesn’t need it! He should just donate it to me.
And for those who doubt the veracity of that quote, feel free to search away.
