The Warhammer Universe Ultimate Thread

General Discussion
141

How many Dwarven gunlines do you guys have to put up with? There’s only a few around here but it’s quite possibly the most boring way to play I’ve ever seen. Anybody who simply doesn’t use their movement phase deserves a major yawn.

Edit: And total agreeance with Dan? The Orc Boyz are my favorite core infantry in the game. Give 'em shields and all of the sudden they’re 6 points for WS 3, S 3, T 4, Ld7 and S4 on the first round of combat with a 5+ armor save. That’s a pretty awesome core infantry. Of course, they have to roll every turn to see if they can do anything, but what’s an Orc gonna do?

142

A few, most of the local players are good about not castleing up in a corner and shooting. Oddly enough at a tourney they had a castle up in the corner dwarf who then rolled misfires on his cannons and organ gun and anvil of doom. He lost over 500 points of artillary in his own shooting phase which makes for sweet sweet justice because he was a complete douche nozzle.

143

Gunlines pretty much ruin the game. Are they unbeatable? No. But are they fun to play? No again. Hence, ruining the GAME aspect. Bah.

I really don’t like the Wood Elves list either. It’s comprised of two things: shooting and skirmishing. Most armies struggle when dealing with both of these things. Now, add on top of this the fact that just about ever single one of their units is hard as nails and/or has eleventy-billion special rules, and you have a list that is just a headache.

Now, as far as the new design philosophy for 40k, here are my thoughts.

It seems GW is trying to remove fringe lists like WD lists and the like (when it concerns armies that already have a book out, unlike Blood Angels who just recently got their trial list in WD) so that there is no question as to whether or not a list is still legal. Secondly, they are trying to streamline lists and make each core codex army list functional to make these lists that they’re cutting out, or at least the majority of them.

They’re also trying to cut down on special rules and units that do not operate within the core rules as defined by their stat-line, weapon options, and the BRB.

A lot of flavor is getting lost in the process, but at the same time they are refining 40k to be as air-tight as possible for tournament play.

Do I necessarily agree with it? Eh, yes and no.

By and large, I have to admit, I agree with the changes to the Chaos codex. Making all demons have the EXACT same profile seems too much, but boo-hoo on the folks who cry about only having one sort of demon weapon. God forbid you struggle like the rest of us. It seems like there is a lot of give and take with the new book, and maybe more take than give, but to be honest:

The last Chaos codex was broken beyond belief.

I have decent friends who play Chaos. They’ve all played fair armies, and I congratulate all of them, because the temptation must have been unbearable. The last Chaos book could build just about any Chaos force imaginable, and gobs of them were stupidly good.

We’ll have to see how this new philosophy affects the rest of the books, but generally DA players seem happy (except about W3 hero choices, from what I understand they HAVE to be special characters, which can be gotten around by just ‘renaming’ yours, but I can see why they’re pissed) and Eldar seems to be clipping along just fine if the GT results are any indication.

Now, to counteract, all this, we have Apocalypse. Apoc is essentially a ‘play whatever you want’ ruleset that has no FOC or anything of that nature, and adds back in a lot of crazy stuff from 2nd, and lots of new rules to spice up big games and make them more than just ‘big 40k’. Seems like they’re trying to make the tournament scene more balanced, and the casual scene more flavorful.

Whether or not they’re doing it the way I think they should, or the best way possible, at the end of the day I still think they’re doing quite well at it. Especially considering GW’s usual track record.

144

My OnG list is really artillery heavy. I have a friend who is complaining that it’s just as cheesey to field 5 pieces of artillery (2 chukkas, 1 lobber, 2 doom divers) as it is to run a gunline. Can I get your opinions on that?

145

Just post the whole list and points value, it’ll be easier to tell that way.

146

General
Orc Warboss; Heavy Armor, Martog’s Best Basha, Enchanted Shield, Warboss Umm’s Best Big Boss’s 'At, Horn of Urgok - 223 points

Heroes
Goblin Shaman; Level 2; Hand Weapon; Dispell Scroll; Tricksy Trinket - 140 points

Goblin Shaman; Level 2; Hand Weapon; Dispel Scroll; Nibbla’s Itty Ring - 135 points

Savage Orc Big Boss; BSB; Choppa; Light Armor; Sword of Battle; Warboss Imbad’s Iron Gnasher; Mounted on Boar Chariot -227 points

Core

25 Orc Boyz; Full Command; Shields - 180 points

25 Orc Boyz; Full Command; Shields - 180 points

20 Orc Boyz; Boss; Musician - 140 points

26 Night Goblins; Musician; Nets; 1x Fanatic - 142 points

25 Night Goblins; Musician; Nets; 1x Fanatic - 139 points

5 Goblin Wolf Riders; Musician; Short Bow; Spear - 76 points

5 Goblin Wolf Riders; Musician; Short Bow; Spear - 76 points

5 Goblin Wolf Riders; Musician; Spear - 71 points

5 Goblin Wolf Riders; Musician; Spear - 71 points

Special Choices

2 Spear Chukkas - 70 points

Rock Lobber - 70 points

5 Squig Hoppers - 75 points

5 Squig Hoppers - 75 points

Rare Choices

Doom Diver Catapult - 80 points

Doom Diver Catapult - 80 points

Total points: 2250

And I’m more than likely removing one of those things of Squigs for another Chariot.

147

What?! He calls that “cheesey”? Ignore him man, that’s nothing. I would maybe, maybe, maybe drop one doom diver just to shut him up, but not because it’s “too effective”.

It’s only artillery heavy for an OnG list, not artillery heavy in general. Now, if you were packing 4+ bolt throwers, that might be different, but all in all it’s a solid list with some good fire support.

148

Which is why they should have to play exclusively against 4 RBT Sea Elf armies.

Jealous much? Nothing needed to be fixed in that codex, what they needed to do is bring the other codex’s up to that standard. They did with Nid’s and Space Marines. The =I= books were a joke as were the Tau. So what does Jervis do, he comes in and says we have these codex’s win to much and have to many options have mostly useful units and are fun to play. These codexs lose and have crap for choices and completely useless units and are not popular because they are unfun and lose a lot. Why don’t we do the smart thing and give everyone a codex that is fun flexible and powerful, oh wait that would require competence, testing and money. Instead lets pull out the nerfhammer and make a list as bad as the ones that lose because of incompetant authorship, that would be wonderful!

149

If you think the old 'dex was fine, that’s your call man, but you’re definitely in the minority on that opinion.

I still think “broken beyond belief” applies if one book is leaps and bounds ahead of all the others. I agree, the last Chaos dex had tons of crazy options and fun, and if all the books were written like that, it’d be great. Of course, they weren’t, so I’d rather it be a bit more boring and brought in line with the rest than be ahead.

Not to mention, Apocalypse is coming up and you can pretty much do whatever, so not all is lost.

150

No, as the majority play marines or chaos and they would say no. Now maybe the mouth breathers on Warseer or B&C would say that, but that is like listening to a marmoset for sex advice. Every person in every gameing group I know do not bitch about Chaos, they bitch about the shitty rules 4th edition. In fact my group rebelled against 40K mid 3rd edition and never looked back. Thank God for Fantasy, FOW,and PP.

I think it should be the other way, bring the other rulebooks up to snuff, let everyone else have the same kind of fun CSM/SM/and Nids have. Of course that would involve effort and would mean working to make something more than a game that is an excuse to move miniatures.

You don’t have 1200 dollars in metal Daemons, possesed, L&TD, Iron Warriors and Word Bearers that are unplayable.

151

Hey Dan?, called my hobby store(Fantasy Games) and they have one hordes of chaos book in stock for 20 bucks, so I’m gonna try and go pick it up tomorrow, won’t be able to get the rulebook right with it, but atleast I’ll have my army book down, so I can get familiar with them.

152

^

BEWD Check Ebay people pull the little red book out of the boxed set and sell it for around 10 bucks.

153

Awesome stuff! If you want it now and can’t wait, go ahead and pick it up in the store (especially if it’s an independent retailer, DEFINITELY support local hobby stores instead of saving $5 or whatever online, even more so if they have game tables and such).

Of course, if you’re a bit more patient, and/or can’t stand your local hobby store, Bernard has the right of it, Ebay or other websites would be the way to go.

Definitely get familiar with it a few times. There’s a TON of information in the HoC book, it really is a massive tome with a lot of options (even amongst Fantasy armies, which tend to have multiple builds). What kind of list are you going for? Lotsa troops? Gobs o’ demons? Cavalry? Magic? I’m not too experienced with the HoC myself, but I own the book and have played against a couple of good tentacle-armed friends numerous times, so I learned what worked against me and what didn’t, so I might have a few pointers (ESPECIALLY if you’ve got any Empire opponents, since that’s what I am and I know how we Sigmarites operate…sneaky gits, the whole lot of us).

I was specifically referring to the 3.5 Chaos 'dex, not regular marines.

Just because I reference web sites for helping other players get info, don’t assume that’s where I get all mine. I do, you know, know Chaos players. It’s not like they’re an exclusive club or something, it is the second most popular army in the game.

Easy tiger, if you read my post, I said the same thing.

This confuses me. You stopped playing 40k mid 3rd edition, yet the 4th edition codex renders your 40k models unplayable? Enlighten me.

Not to mention, with Apoc coming out, 1200 of Chaos = totally playable army no matter what the FOC might look like.

154

Well I’m constantly hearing about how Chaos struggles against any army that can support massive numbers of cheap troops(Greenskin/Skaven), how would I combat this? I was thinking of having a Chaos Undivided army, so that way I can mix in other god specific units if I wanted to, but any units/tips that could help me from being overrun?

155

If anything Regular marines are just as “broken” than the Chaos list, what army do you play? Also how long have you been playing, it does make a difference as to what you know what the game used to be compared to what it is now. You are 100% correct on supporting your FLGS, but unelss he wants to pay 70 bucks or end up with 100 plus models he does not want Ebay is the way to go. Also in 99.99 percent of cases (excepting Houston) GW stores should be avoided, namely because they are not gaming stores but mall nurseries for the upwardly mobile and their crotch droppings.

I got tired in third edition of tuneing out and winning upwards of 60% of my games. 2nd Edition I had to pay attention or I would get cut up and loose, any wargame were you can read a book and ignore what is going on and post a winning record sucks rotten donkey cock. Then came 4th edition, did they fix issues, reintroduce concepts, and make the game more playable? No they wrote more stodgy and ambiguous rules stopped external play testing altogether and stopped supporting the game outside of 20 dollar books and models. Add to that the 4th edition rules suck, they are unplayable and turned a mediocre game (3rd edition) into something akin to watching Ed Asner pole dance. Not to mention two of my armies were nerfed by changes, now they killed the 3rd. Yes I am freaking delighted in seeing Jervis gobble his own cock while stroking himself and saying what a great job he is doing serving up shit on a stick and telling us it is the Hope Diamond. If you want to play a game with tight rules go over to FOW, Mongoose or Privateer Press.

Apocalypse has a Vortex Grenade template, nothing else is interesting. I also don’t want to use my converted models that I sweated over as “counts as” I don’t appreciate dropping large amounts of money then having a company tell me sorry we changed the rules because some knob polisher who looses tic tac toe at the fair to a duck bitches about how he can’t win a game.

156

Considering that Marauders are only 7 points a pop with LA and a shield, they’re a really inexpensive way to bolster your forces and give you a few extra combat blocks to help protect your flanks/go for the enemy’s. Granted, I know their stats are nothing to write home about, but they’re essentially identical to Empire swordsmen (well, now they’re 1 points more expensive, the new Empire book just gave them a point discount). This means that they are not going to win many fights by killing, but with WS 4 and a 4+ save in close combat, they will win quite few fights by static combat-res alone.

As for some other options, I don’t know, I’ll have to read the book a bit at work today, heh, maybe give you some more pointers later on in the weekend since I’ll be pretty busy today and tomorrow.

One thing I can suggest with near certainty: Chaos Knights. Chaos Knights are easily one of the bst units in the game. These guys are monsters. I know the boxed set only comes with five, but they’re really expensive points-wise, and if you toss a hero in there with them that will flesh them out a bit more. These guys will draw a LOT of attention, adn rightfully so, they eat evenmy units for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks in between.

Bernard, I’ve been playing back since the old 2nd edition glory days, and I own a copy of Rogue Trader. I can understand why you would be pissed at 40k, and I’m not trying to convert you back to it. Thing is, as much as my friends and I loved 2nd to death, I really enjoy 4th. 3rd was far too bland, and I barey hung in through the entirity of it, but 4th brought a lot of flavor back into the game while still making it much more playable and smooth than 2nd. Is it poorly written? Eh, there are a lot of ambiguous sections and places that could have been worded much better, but I’ve yet to have a game where a rules argument was any worse than they were in 3rd or 2nd.

157

Warhammer arguments get me hard. BEWD, Marauders are great, listen to Dan? Unfortunately, you’re going to be looking at a steep upward climb for swarm armies. Luckily for you, Dwarves, Bretts, and Wood Elves are easily the most popular armies right now and they’re not swarm armies at all.

158

Iren, I keep you hard man, that’s my job. Hardkeeper. Of dicks.

I looked at the warriors’ stats again…eh, it seems like if you take them without making them Chosen, they can be a nice hammer unit. They’ll still be crazy expensive, and they’ll need a lot of finesse, but hey, the models just look so good, there has to be a use for them.

159

So anyone else get into the WHO beta besides me? I got my invitation like 2 weeks ago and I’m finally starting to download it. About halfway through atm. Just wondering if anyone else is participating.

160

Hey guys, went out and bought my chaos codex yesterday, it’s deceptively small, as there’s a shitload of info in it, taking time out to read it everynow and then. Lol, I went into the store, and they were having some miniature painting contest, so I got the book, and as I walked back some dude speedwalked and blindsided the shit out of me.

Random Dude: Man, you shouldn’t buy that book

Me: ?

RD: Man, they suck, don’t buy that book

Owner: How many times do I have to tell you not to mess with customers?

RD: Just trying to tell him. Anyways, I used to play them man, they’re cool, just buy Chaos Knights and you’ll be fine

Me: -_-