But there is nothing to “merge” per se, both Mu and Satsui are intrinsic to the ansatsuken, is more about tending to one of the extremes or try to find a balance, I don’t think the fire and ice analogy works in this case.
Shin Ryu is dumb. I said this when he was introduced plus he essentially based off of a MUGEN version of Ryu. They even gave him a Ragin Demon like the MUGEN version. Maximum Potential Ryu should not have a Demon and Asura warps, that move-set is exclusive to Evil Ryu.
Max Potential Ryu is all about one stroke precision counter move attacks, not about power ups as Udon or even story mode would suggest. The final fight with Akuma and Ryu isn’t going to be on Akuma’s terms so its likely not as epic most people would hope for like a DBZ fight. Canon wise it would ideally be both Akuma and Ryu using their ultimate attack against one another in one single moment.
Max potential Ryu would ideally be using his Fist of Wind which at this point is the concept behind all of his attacks and not just a single technique. So every single punch he would throw would be a “Fist of Wind”, making his SRK devastating.
Akuma of course has all of his destructive potential at his disposal and the fight would basically come down to two outcomes.
Outcome 1; Ryu gets completely crushed by one of Akuma’s various killing techniques.
Outcome 2; Ryu finds a way to land the perfect counter and win.
Akuma will always be the agressor due to his nature so he will naturally initiate whatever attack he has at his disposal against Ryu. It will basically come down to Ryu countering whatever Akuma throws at him.
MnK provides the unseen counter, that is to provide a motion or ki so swift and precise that it is hard to decipher what is truly occurring in between the moment of the actions beginning and end. In fact the action is so seamless it is hard to say a transition happened at all.
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I’ve gotten my hands on the first volume of the Ryu Final mangas. And I must say it is some of the best SF media out there. However, volume 2 is far too expensive for me nowadays (if anyone has English scans hit me up—)
Ryu’s entire “power of soul” is to bring out the best in his opponents. Where as the Udon comics go a different route. You could say that Ryu’s “power of soul” in the comics is the mastery of opposition, finding balance between both chaos and purity. A strength even Akuma couldn’t achieve.
One thing I forgot to touch upon in my initial thread is his change in fighting style. Ryu (in the games from SFV and beyond) is shown to be patient, awaiting the exact correct moment to strike, shit it’s even shown in his moveset with the Kakko Fubatsu V trigger 2. When the SNH takes control of Ryu’s being, he becomes aggressive and careless. Sacrificing fighting style for this janky amalgamation of Ansatsuken (original killing style) practice. Shin Ryu is the true jack of all trades. He has Gouken, his own, and Akuma’s moveset. Allowing him to be as versatile as he wishes. Aggressive when needed, and calm and patient when needed.
You’re correct. Ryu’s fate isn’t like Gouken’s at all. Gouken didn’t want to be the strongest, he wanted to develop the Ansatsuken arts into a self defence tactic rather than a formula made for the death of human, and even god. Ryu merely wants to be the strongest. Both he and Akuma walk the same path. They’re two sides of the same coin. That is until Ryu accepts his true nature and finally realizes how to balance his demon with his purity.
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Allow me to stop you right there.
See, I understand your point, however Ryu is striving to be the best of the best. For one, we’re talking two different timelines.
Udon Ryu and Capcom game Ryu are quite different. Udon Ryu wants to be strong, Capcom Ryu also wants to be strong, but through a way that doesn’t involve the SNH. I had originally discussed the idea of this concept being worked into the games, it would take a ton of development on Ryu’s part, and some DAMN good writing.
Udon Ryu was set up from the beginning to have this sort of thing come to light. He never rejected the SNH. In the games, he DID reject the SNH.
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MnK has been compared to UI multiple times, but that’s beside the point.
One thing shin Ryu has that negatively impacts the lore, is the disruption of the Yin and Yang that is, and always has been Ryu vs Akuma. But one thing that counters this argument, is the fact that Ryu had the SNH to begin with. So the Yin and Yang would’ve already been somewhat disrupted.
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To be fair, Udon Ryu did not “want”
SNH for most of his arc, on the contrary, he was fending it off and trying to neglect it, he refused to accept it as he was trying to follow on the steps of his master, it wasn’t until Oro that he went for the balance thing,
Tbh “Udon Ryu” doesn’t exist canon wise, so whatever he want/do/wish should not interfere with SF
It’s essentially just glorified fanfiction
If ever that path happen should be because canon Oro had elements that hint that kind of philosophy, not to mimic udon
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One possible outcome is that Ryu himself at some point chose to left the “Oro path” understanding that give away humanity/morality to become a Sennin Is not SO different from do it to become an Oni
This will also allow to not lock Ryu for years and years of orotraining , while he can still get a visible boost (think 3 years with Oro)
I for one will like see Ryu chose to walk the “humanity path”, returning to do what istinctively he ever did… Travel the world, cross fist with new opponents and learn from them in a mutual martial arts benefit
At some point i like Ryu to pick the world as his Master, not Gouken, Akuma or Oro
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Ryu is boring because his interests, ideals, morals have been set since pretty much day one and haven’t changed to this day, and whatever experience as a fighter he is gaining over the years as a result of his travels is not well reflected beyond his moveset (e.g. shinku hadoken in SF2, shinku tatsu and shin shoryu in Alpha, denjin hadoken in SF3 and 5, metsu hadoken in SF4)
However Ryu is interesting because there’s a lot of questions in regards to his past and future. We still don’t know much about his parents, all depictions of him as a child we have is from non-canon media, there’s theories like Akuma being his canonical dad, and given the ever expanding roster of the Street Fighter universe we don’t know what kind of opponents he’ll be facing in next installments
Taking over Gouken’s legacy, absorbing Oro’s knowledge, and becoming the ultimate martial artist on Earth, lending his skills and experience to the next generation of fighters.
We kinda saw that being explored with Ken in SF3 (albeit not super succesfully), Dan (but he’s a dumbass so his school is in shambles and he lives in basically poverty to the point of not even being able to pay the telephone bills), and Sakura (who was a very cool twist on the student-master trope since it’s Sakura who made the first step and becamew the fighter she is today, with merely occasional sparrings with Ryu here and there)
But IMO him becoming the next Antasuken master is the correct step for character development, as him just roaming the world for 30 years has simply gotten stale, which also means he’s kinda detached from most of the story that’s going on in the franchise, only getting involved when yet another villain (read - Bison) is after his soul or energy or body or whatever.
This is why I want the next SF game to finally move into the SF3 era and tell the full story of Ryu completing his training and travels and shit, GIMME ONE HAND HADOKEN RYU THAT CAN FUCKING PARRY ANYTHING IN THE GAME
Honestly?
After watching the SFV reveal live, following its development and showcases starting from Capcom Cup 2014 and into its release back in February of 2016, and after experiencing hype, doubts, and ultimately disappointment - I will be completely skeptical of a hypothetical SF6
IMO Capcom has dropped a major ball with the direction they took gameplay-wise, and unless the current leader of the division puts completely different people in charge - I have no hopes of 6 improving mechanically, but rather go even deeper into the dumbing down and eSports friendliness.
I will, however, be excited due to the story potential that every new Street Fighter game brings to the table, and I am hopeful we won’t experience much, if any, retcons and alterations of the past events to properly continue and maybe even conclude the Illuminati saga that was pretty much kicked off with the final act of SFV’s cinematic story
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I know it isn’t going to happen.
But in terms of mechanics, I want them to bring back some SFIII stuff and get rid of that fucking revenge mechanic. Stick to your super combos and showcase those who truly are skilled at the game. There’s too many characters who have busted v triggers even after the countless patches and updates. CAPCOM BALANCE YOUR DAMN CHARACTERS. And if they reconsider the parry mechanic, make it just as difficult as it used to be. None of that Ryu V-skill button mashing stuff.
Ofc. I’m a sucker for SF3. So it’s no surprise that I’d like to see these mechanics come back in the… Seemingly highly anticipated (even though it hasn’t been announced yet) SF6. I can’t count on it with the recent decisions Capcom has made in regards to their fighting games. However we’re entering a new era of Capcom games to which have been massive hits. Hopefully SF6 makes up for the abomination that was SF5
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SF5 isnt an abomination.
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Ryu is just a less stupid version of Goku.
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True, and thats why I’ve always preferred Ryu over Goku, seriously there’s been times I’ve actually been annoyed by Goku and his antics.
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Tbh i find Ryu one of the most interessing SF characters
SF chars are’nt strong as story anyway in most of cases… Tbh few have an actual story to begin with
SF characters are mostly theyr own concepts rather than theyr narrative, that’s where they shine
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To be fair Ryu in SF3 is x10 better character than Goku in DB-Super if were talking about a character of an age and experience that compromised to his other old narrative, Young/Alpha Ryu is more relatable than youth Goku but youth Goku is more likable. The best Goku will never beyond Cell Saga.
IMHO.
SF3 Ryu is mature and learned from experienced.
Yet in the end two had very different purpose, media, characteristic and role. The thing that made them significant despite being a martial artist is that both are pop culture icons.
Better Ryu is not Goku at any form. There was a time in I likable to envision SF Alpha Ryu during his struggle with SNH as Kenshin Himura holding back and regretting his past actions during his “batusai” namesake
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This video of characters getting rejected is funny. Johnny getting rejected by Jade and Kitana. How fun would it be to see the SF girls rejecting Rufus or Blanka.
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To answer all the previous questions…
This right here is the fundamental misunderstanding
It’s the same misunderstanding that people keep making with the insipid new Star Wars movies where people think you can “balance” the Force and the Dark Side when balance was EXPLICITLY the Force with NONE of the Dark Side in previous films and, conceptually, in the setting just as it is in standard Taoist and Buddhist principals.
This applies in the same way to Ryu and the SnH and MnH.
You can’t “balance” these two things. It’s ignorant to even think that this is a thing.
Let me ask the people confused by this a question…
I mix a drink for you. It’s made up of half of the purest water in the world…and half pure sewage. CLEARLY this must be the most well balanced drink in the world, right?
That’s what you’re asking Ryu to balance.
Mu is enlightenment. Explicitly so. Oneness with the universe is the nature of Mu. SnH is inherently imbalanced. You cannot balance it with something in the same way you cannot balance sewage with pure water to make a nutritious drink.
The yin-yang is the conceptual “balance”. We have this weird western obsession with thinking that it’s a “balance” between good and evil. This is ALSO foolish because you don’t create a harmonious world by purposefully having EVIL in it. The concept of balance is harmony and peace, ESPECIALLY in the martial arts and spiritual traditions that underpin all of Street Fighter. The martial artist is balanced and complete when they are at one with the universe…when they’ve achieved Mu.
It is not only impossible but insulting to the concept of Buddhist peace to think Ryu, “the true martial artist”, would balance and wield inner peace AND simultaneously wield destructive, narcissistic, murderous rage.
It’s stupid.
MnH and SnH are not “opposing forces”. They are not fire and water just as the Force and the Dark Side are not fire and water. Fire and water are elements. They exist within the cosmic forces in harmony. Fire, water, air, earth, etc.
SnH is the corruption of these things. It’s the corruption of the nature of a human being to such an extent that it quite literally damns the persons spirit and corrupts them on a physical level. Akuma is corroding from the inside-out. He’s turning into a monster because the nature of his power is an affront to nature itself. Ryu cannot be at one with nature while ALSO being an affront to it. These things can’t co-exist nor should they.
Furthermore, there’s this repeated notion that Mu or SnH is some kind of “power”.
It isn’t.
It never has been.
They are not “powers”. They are channeling methods. This is explicitly stated in the early SF guides regarding Meritorious Ki and Satsui No Hadou. The Surge of Killing Intent. This is internal…but it is not a “power”. It is a methodology of cultivating chi. Again, this is stated outright and is a fundamental concept related to chi. This is also exactly like the Force.
It is the same power. In Star Wars, the Force is external and it flows through the user. In Street Fighter (and chi concepts), chi flows out from within. It is a personal life force that is cultivated, nurtured and harnessed.
When Ryu (or any fighter) gathers chi within to make themselves more powerful, they do this with physical and mental focus. In the case of SnH, this is done through a prism of destructive, self-centered and violent focus.
In the case of Mu, chi flows outward as the user achieves balance with nature around them.
This is actually tied into the whole corruption thing. Nature and the universe has its own chi…it’s own ‘life force’. When a chi uses filters chi out of themselves through the matrix of SnH, the power that comes out of them is literally antithetical to the universe itself. That’s why, like Bison’s power, SnH looks and feels wrong. It’s an affront to the harmony of the natural world. That is why it rots out the user and warps them and makes them something unnatural. They are drifting further and further from nature, balance and harmony.
MnH is the exact opposite. The user achieves oneness with nature. They have perfect harmony with themselves and their surroundings. That is why Akuma can’t even strike Gouken when he’s in a state of Mu. You can’t punch nature…it doesn’t even make sense on a conceptual level.
All this talk of a boy that wields opposite powers is just co-opting Alex’s story to give to Ryu so Ryu has something to do because they’ve turned Ryu, over the years, into a boring “Destined hero” who has no personality and is utterly uninteresting. So much so, that he has to steal things from NEWER protagonists like Alex to keep his own story going.
“Balancing” SnH and MnH to make a stronger fighter is as stupid as getting a “balanced” diet by drinking equal parts water and sewage.
You’re welcome to try…but it won’t be healthy and it’s pure nonsense
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This is a perfect example of something that is entirely wrong.
You’re saying Ryu should balance water and sewage.
Ryu and Akuma are not yin and yang.
Mu is Yin & Yang in balance.
SnH is not yin & yang. It’s imbalance.
They do not walk the same path. The entire CONCEPT of Akuma is that he has never been walking the path of the true martial artist. He pursues power for his personal sake. That is NOT the true path of the martial artist. The true path of the martial artist is to wield your fist for others. All others. Even your foe. Akuma couldn’t be further from this path.
He is wrong. Entirely. Always. Every step has been wrong.
Your understanding of a martial artists “versatility” is also askew.
Versatility is not a lot of moves and styles.
Versatility is the ability to win without hurting a foe. Or even to win without ever throwing a punch.
Versatility is the palm of the Buddha…a hand raised offering peace or protection.
Akuma doesn’t know anything about being a real martial artist and if Ryu took anything from him to try and “balance” he’d be just as wrong.
Goutetsu recognized this. He chose Gouken for a reason. Gouken is right. Unequivocally. Gouki is wrong. Entirely.
This is further reinforced in Ryu Final. When does Ken achieve his true potential? When he stops being an ass and realizes his REAL power comes from wielding his fist for others. His family. He beats the living hell out of Ryu EASILY because of this. He doesn’t learn new moves. He doesn’t gain “versatility”. He cultivates his chi in a new way because of a new way of wielding his fist…a new way of existing. He becomes a better martial artist because of nothing but a fundamental change in mentality. In fact, this lets him ONE SHOT GILL after Ken gets the crap kicked out of him.
No extra training.
No extra moves.
A better martial artist by being a better person.
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Speaking about Ryu, not that I have much respect for Goku but my opinion of Ryu besides some of his moves is even worse.
In the name of the quest to be a better fighter, Ryu consistenly gets to autistic levels in his (lack of ) relationship with other characters. Whenever Ryu and another SF character interact, it’s the other character who adress Ryu as a fighter and person, but Ryu himself doesn’t feel or give a damn about everyone. It’s Bison who wants to harness the power of the SnH within Ryu, for Ryu is more like “he’s bad I have to fight him I guess”; Sakura has the hots for him, he can’t either reject her or love her in return and just retreats into fighting themes of conversation, in the fight against Sagat he agonized “I’M losing, I gotta awaken this power within to win” but other than that Sagat is merely another fighter whereas Sagat does fell into despair and then actively searched for Ryu to challenge him again.
The only character that Ryu ever looks for in his story for development is Akuma, which is lame given it’s merely a color swap of himself and that’s always lame for heroes (for example, the Lanterns of all colors for Green Lantern). It kind of reminds me of Link from Legend of Zelda which doesn’t ever utters a word while the whole world acts towards him. That was kind of passable since he’s the single playable protagonist of his adventure games (even then that thing has gotten old), on FGs which are inherently ensemble casts it is dumb. No wonder why Chun and Guile tend to get the spotlight when fighting against Shadaloo.
Even Goku has a family and adresses people on his own initiative (for example, when recruiting for the Battle of the Universes).
Notice that none of the above means “kill Ryu” or “stop putting Ryu in the next SF”. It just means making him more human like because he looks utterly one dimensional as far as canon goes.
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Oh and yeah Ryu IS boring as shit now.
The best Ryu is probably in Street Fighter V (the anime) where he actually has a personality, flaws and interests. He has energy as a main character. He has drive and purpose.
Older Ryu in Ryu Final is also pretty decent because he has a sense of humor and emotions and he is an introspective guy willing to talk to people.
Nowadays, Ryu is a plank of wood. Probably because the people writing the series seem to know Jack and Shit about how to write someone that isn’t a one-note archetype.
Johnny Cage is 10x the character Ryu is.
Everyone should think about that and realize how much better MK has been at developing their…well…pretty much everything. It’s…a helluva wake up call.
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