Totally agree.
Ryu comes off as a robot. He doesn’t interact with other human beings in any meaningful way. He doesn’t seem to care about them when the path of the martial artist is to DEEPLY care about other people. Ryu has no motivation, no personality and no humanity.
So dull and so boring.
If we’re going to get into the “true martial artist” territory. That path is different FOR EVERYONE. You realize that Ryu referred to Akuma as a “true martial artist” when Oro asked him about it.
There is no designated path. It is a path you must walk yourself. Albeit through brutality in Akuma’s context. The path of a true martial artist is always different when applied to different people. There IS no right or wrong. Whether people agree or disagree with you, just like how Gouken and Goutetsu disagree with Akuma for taking a different path.
Versatility is the ability to adapt and broaden your functionality. Not beat an opponent without losing. Sure, in a Buddhist perspective, it’ll mean something different. But in the context I’m using it in? It is in fact being able to broaden your moves and learn more about things. Apply this to an artist. Music, drawing. If you’re versatile, then you can often do more than just one or two styles of what you practice.
I agree with you, whole heartedly, I don’t suscribe to a entirely right or wrong path, every fighter has his own and everybody has his demons that need to be kept at bay, and one encounters many temptations along the way, thats what “balance” means in this context, so I don’t think all of these oil and water/fire and ice examples are representative of the situation, they are actually very silly.
Regarding a Ryu with a more rounded personality I gotta give a special shout out to the one from Masaomi Kanzaki’s manga released in the early 90s.
LOL the SF2 ones right?
Yeah Sf2, I loved it back in the day, in the 90s it was published in color in the west.
I vividly remember Ryu opening the door to a fight club and just asking out right
“Anyone got any cheap food?? I’m hungry!”
Still makes me chuckle
[quote]
If we’re going to get into the “true martial artist” territory. That path is different FOR EVERYONE. You realize that Ryu referred to Akuma as a “true martial artist” when Oro asked him about it.[/quote]
Yeah and Ryu is wrong. Ryu is not infallible. He’s still on his journey and it will take a long time for him to reach the pinnacle.
The path of the martial artist is enlightenment. That’s the entire point. You cannot reach enlightenment through vicious, mean-spirited and cruel violence like Akuma. Buddhism isn’t really big into murdering people with your bare hands to prove how big your karate dick is. Hurting people is not the path of the true martial artist.
Read Ryu Final 2. Akuma is so utterly wrong that he realizes his life is a sham. At best his existence is as an example of what not to do for Ryu and as a barrier for Ryu to overcome because Akuma was NEVER going to reach the path of the true martial artist. It was never a possibility.
One does not join with the Force by embracing the Dark Side. Ever. Not even once.
Completely untrue. While the path of enlightenment is unknown and can vary, it is not found through violence. One does not reach enlightenment by being an awful person.
Akuma is an awful person. The Buddha has oneness with humanity, the universe and nature itself. They are enlightened. This is the path of the martial artist because martial arts is supposed to be about improving yourself and improving the world.
How is Akuma doing any of that? He is making the world worse all the time and he is rotting himself out. Oni is literally hollow inside because of how much rot he’s infested himself with. He’s falling apart. Again, just like in Ryu Final. And it’s visual metaphor as well. Akuma is hollow inside figuratively and literally. His path is a dead end.
That’s fine if you want to use it in a different way…but you can’t use the term in a different way then retroactively apply that inapplicable terminology back to “the true martial artist”. It doesn’t work that way. Better versatility at murdering people is not the true path of the martial artist.
What does Mu do for Gouken? Does it let him murder Akuma? No. It lets him be entirely immune to Akuma’s crude, bloody fist.
What does the Fist of the Wind do? It strikes without killing intent. It strikes without intent at all. Gouken’s entire philosophy is about making a martial art that doesn’t hurt the opponent when it is mastered. He steered the ansatsuken he was taught away from its murderous roots and Goutetsu chose HIM. Gouki, in his ignorance, thought this was weakening the martial art because he’s too limited to understand that martial arts is not about HURTING people. Goutetsu understood that and Gouken understood it to an even greater degree. Ryu will take that understanding and go even further.
Oro expands on this. He has oneness with nature. Senjutsu. The path of the sage. Oro, however, doesn’t have enlightenment. He doesn’t have balance within himself. He has earthly desires, perversions and ego.
Oneness with nature from Oro and balance between the universe and the self through Gouken’s teachings and Ryu can be the complete martial artist that has Mu in it’s entirety. When he has that, he no longer has a need to fight because the true martial artist is the one that never has to wield his fist in violence.
Of course, Ryu can never on-screen achieve this…because then the struggle is over and it’s all about the journey when it comes to enlightenment.
Kanzaki Ryu was fantastic. Classic and true bro.
Plus his “Evil” character was also way better. Evil Ken in that series was great AND looked cool.
Also his take on Balrog was fantastic and he even gave Blanka a bit of an arc.
Such a good series. Still have the original color issues by Takuma comics and read them all the time.
This very moment, right? 
My point didn’t tie back to philosophy. It tied back to fighting style alone.
Your point about a “true martial artist” doesn’t hold up, as I said. It is different FOR EVERYBODY. Enlightenment, is different for EVERYBODY. There is no TRUE definition, because the idea of a true martial artist varies from person to person. Sure, if said warrior is a practitioner of Buddhism, then it indeed may be set and stone.
As people mature, much like Ryu has, and everyone else in the whole fucking multiverse, they realize what is right for THEM. Not always their beliefs.
Oh hell yes there’s the comic in all its color glory!
So damned good.
They should totally take cues for alternate outfits from this series too…but they won’t 
Absolutely, I do have all of the color issues and the Udon reprint of the manga versions…maybe because of nostalgia but I prefer the color versions lol and yeah that Balrog was aces, reminds me of what ended being canon Sagat.
Unfortunately, philosophy is utterly linked to fighting style in Street Fighter. It’s the core concept of the struggle of Ryu, Gouki and Gouken. That is the entire crux of their story. Separating fighting style from philosophy is contrary to the entire point.
War’s not make one great.
A weapon doesn’t make a Jedi.
A fighting style doesn’t make a martial artist.
You realize Akuma is tied into Buddhist principles? He literally invokes Buddhist sayings, design cues, names and concepts every step of the way.
In Street Fighter, the path of enlightenment is objectively correct. This is the equivalent of saying “Well you can use the Force in lots of different ways if you aren’t a Jedi and don’t believe in the whole Force/Darkside thing”
Yeah you could in the setting…but you’d be objectively wrong. The Jedi philosophy is correct within the milieu of Star Wars and the Dark Side WILL destroy you. It is irrelevant whether or not you believe that is correct. You will not join the Force and you will not gain eternal existence through the Dark Side. It’s only through the Force and being at peace with it.
Again, this is irrelevant in the context of the Street Fighter universe.
Bison and Akuma are objectively wrong. There are no two ways around it. Akuma cannot reach enlightenment by VIOLENTLY MURDERING PEOPLE because he has karate dick envy towards his brother who is a better person.
At best, Akuma can reject everything he has ever done in life, come to peace with that and reach enlightenment…probably on his death bed just like Darth Vader.
To be honest, Ryu’s story can never progress pre-SF3 unless they start making retcons. He can’t have any major life experiences or grow because that would mean he eventually regresses in SF3. That’s why so much of his story revolves around temporary issues and cameos in the journeys of others. They can seal off SNH to segue into SF3, but they’ve already done it twice now and it’s clear he doesn’t have any compelling internal struggles to deal with in the near future.
Ideally, if we’re talking pre-Ryu Final, I want to see Ryu face an opponent that actually makes him question his approach and learn something that can apply to his eventual battle with Akuma. For example, let’s say he squares off against G and his counterattacks are ineffective; while Ryu can ready himself for an aggressive opponent, G can simply draw power from the earth until he grows strong enough to do something crazy like destabilize the ground beneath Ryu or become so hardened that he can tank anything Ryu throws at him. Ryu would have to figure out how to take the fight to others and overcome defenses rather than just turtling a foolhardy aggressor. This could then inspire him to develop new techniques and grow as a fighter. It also sets the stage for Ryu finally challenging Akuma rather than waiting for him to return.
Once he overcomes Akuma, he can be a sort of wise man figure to future generations, imparting wisdom to overcome the latest villain without directly taking the spotlight. Ryu has finally achieved self actualization, and devotes himself to bringing up others rather than hoarding his knowledge to himself (cough Oro cough).
Ryu should totally face off against G on philosophical grounds.
G should challenge what Ryu fights for. G fights “for the people!”. G fights “for the Earth!”. G fights to help EVERYONE as “The president of the world!”
What does Ryu fight for?
Who does Ryu fight for?
These are legitimate questions at this point because Ryu’s journey has turned depressingly inward. It’s all about his own journey and his own power and struggles.
G’s apparently (at least outwardly) past all that. He is comfortable with his own power and he fights “for others”
Ryu would have to question himself and come to terms with the fact that his struggle, his power and his fights effect the world at large. He’s been so busy looking at himself he stopped looking outward and secreting himself away is a lot like Akuma. Ryu is doing nothing to better the world. We got to see Ryu in the animated movie as a good person that would wander and meet martial artists and talk to them and he’d help people who’s path he crossed like the little girl in India. That’s 1% of where Ryu needs to be but it’s way further than where the character is right now, sadly.
Ryu needs another world tour…to find people to help rather than constantly looking to help himself…because doing the former will actually achieve the latter. His interactions with Yun & Yang in Ryu Final are a good example of this.
Him facing off with G might be another good way to draw that development out of Ryu. Challenge his damn philosophy and actions more than just his karate.
Because that is middle age Ryu which is decent and fresh. Plus it’s from a manga with no Alpha event background, no Akuma and other things involve.
Explorative Ryu is the best to follow but Ryu aged already have many experienced making him like the fresh guy from the mountains is like SF1 and Sf2 all over again.
Unless we make him venture the astral world, underworld and ethreal world where he can meet oni, gods, yokai and etc which is a no no in SF.
SF now is a complicated story for so many levels because everyone is tied with each other. Bringing back Ryu in that state requires another retelling and an interquel.
And also mostly everyone dislike the plot centered or spolighted Ryu all over again.
Thats why I prefered him nowadays as a sideline character rather than him being revolve by the plot into.
Its the safest choice for him while keeping his legacy as a pop culture icon without making him a completely different character in the later years because of continous chasing of trends and re-invention.
The only thing that can make an interesting Ryu centered plot is during Alpha and SF1 timeline or along SF2. When he was just geting to know things outside his grown into world.
The issue isn’t so much of the plot being centered around Ryu (he is the protagonist, after all, similarly to Kyo in KOF, or Sol in GG, or Ragna in BB, or the Mishima family in Tekken)
The issue is that when the plot ISN’T centered around Ryu, then it’s like he barely exists in-universe, he’s being thrown completely to the sidelines and doesn’t interact with the rest of the roster
My issue with the Street Fighter stories is that despite having a wide array of characters, their (canonical) interactions are very much limited to 1v1 encounters which are isolated and happen in a bubble. Characters don’t tell and don’t get aked about their events
Even going back to SF4 and the whole ordeal prior to the game with the Seth OVA - how many characters were on the scene when Crimson Viper was about to fuck up Ryu? Sakura, Ken, Cammy, and Ryu himself. Chun wasn’t there, Guile wasn’t there, for example. I get that you can’t have 50 characters in one place at all times, but even when the heroes attempt to pound Seth on that cruise ship of his in the final act - it’s stil basically was just Ryu
That’s why I liked SFV’s story and how it actually put all the World Warriors (and a couple of others) into a team. Don’t try telling me it wasn’t fucking cool seeing Zangief SPDing motherfuckers while Chun and Guile are clearing the path and Karin is having an ojou-off with one of the Dolls
What Ryu just need is to interact with new spolight protoganist like in SF3 did with him and Alex because me as a Ryu fan know how much people dislike Ryu again stories. No major role but more like the a character behind the scenes like the rest of the world warrior later should be.
Thats the perfect Role for a SF Ryu pass SF3 or within SF3 timeline. Giving him a major role only makes some people that dislike him to quick or turn into something else that isn’t the current established Ryu , or as the get to go character to pick up and be familiarized with the game.
The other option is going back to alpha or SF1 timeline where everything was meant about him.
I’m back!!! I just had alot of important uni work+revision I had to do:
First off, welcome to the story thread @DivineSkippy
Secondly, I notice that with the current topic, we’re getting more productive discussion than we’ve got for the whole 5 months of content drought. I’ve never really stopped to think about Ryu from that angle. It makes me curious how are they going to handle his story in relation to Kage, is Kage the final step to overcoming the SnH or does he represent the inner turmoil of not really helping others?
I’m going to guess that the end result of Ryu’s story arc is going to have him end up as a less secluded version of Gouken, helping guide those who have been led astray or are lost.
As for Akuma, honestly I’d love to see something like Ryu Final being adapted for his arc, because it highlights one of the series’ key motifs: the aim of martial arts is for you to recognise your flaws and overcome them to become a better person, Akuma lost sight for that and became obsessed with bringing pain to others in a bid to become “strong”. Also the other, more petty reason is so all those Akuma fans stop romantizing him, Akuma is a coward face it.
TBH, it’s exactly why I’d prefer SF to try the “A plot, B plot approach” in SF6’s story because that way most characters will get time to genuinely interact with other characters and contribute to the story.
EDIT: About G v Ryu: now that I think of it, having make Ryu have a crisis about his goal and what he’s fighting for and can lead very nicely into Neo-Shadaloo, helping Ed out and saving him from Phantom Bison might be the first step into reaching enlightenment.
(Also when I read that post about G v Ryu, I immediately thought of Iris’ death scene from Megaman X4, but that’s beside the point 
)