Western may not work on SF. Gritty, not out of the realm of possibility. Take Power Rangers, for example, one the campiest motherfucking shows on the planet got a very dark season (RPM): most of the world population dead or enslaved, it’s one of the few seasons where people die on screen, and other plots that make the setting of the season unsettling. This season turned into one of the most beloved seasons by fans everywhere. Still talked about to this day. Power Rangers survived.
So, If SF got one gritty game, I think we’ll be all right.
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Capcom is into AAA games now more than ever. And DS does have the potential to be one (unlike Rival Schools, for example). It just has to be properly relaunched.
No. I’m talking about a historical saturation. Nowadays it’s really really hard to propose an original old school fighting game, something that truly surprise people and brings them a new experience.
You can still do fine games, even great games, but unless you bring something really innovative, people simply won’t be much interested and will very likely not buy unless it’s an already popular brand.
Especially since arcade times are gone. There’s no longer the convenience of taking a walk in the arcade to see the new machines, put a token and try to experiment something new just out of curiosity. A fighting game is a huge investment.
While I respect your points, I have some different reasons why I’ve left SFV for dead (disclaimer, I quit well before AE so I can’t speak on how much that changed):
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SFV’s gameplay is way more linear than SF3 or SF4. Only a few characters can really be played in more than 1 way, and many of those one-trick characters basically run off of the same gimmick (frame trap/counter hit). Just look at the difference between playing SFV Ryu and Ryu in any version of SF4.
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Part of the above comes from locking a character’s best or most interesting tools behind V-Trigger. I think the original reveal build had V-Trigger tied to meter and supers that worked like SF4 ultras. I have no doubt in my mind that SFV would be a better game if Capcom stuck with this rather than tying most of your VT building to CH heavies and taking damage. This design direction absolutely ruins several characters and makes some of the “bland” ones strong because they don’t need VT to be complete.
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While fighting games are expected to focus on ranked/competitive play, in SFV’s case they completely dropped the ball. The offline features were bad or unpolished at launch (remember having to give a thumbs up at locals because Capcom couldn’t be assed to have a 2P rematch option?), which put a spotlight on one of SFV’s worst offenses: mediocre netcode. It takes all the worst aspects of rollback and delay based netcode with none of the upsides. What baffles me most is that the netcode isn’t even new to SFV, they used an earlier version for SFxT so Capcom should know full well by now what to focus on. I would rather Capcom competently implement delay-based netcode than continue to fumble with rollback that they don’t understand.
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If you were to separate SFV from it’s name, reputation, and publisher, you would not think it was made by a large studio like Capcom. There have been multiple glaring technical failures with SFV that either took far too long to fix (lag cycle) or shouldn’t have been there in the first place (rootkit), which has done a lot of damage to SFV’s perception. To this day some rather embarrassing issues persist like the god awful hair physics; it’s been 3 years and you still have things like Ken’s hair clipping through his shoulder in the character select screen. I’m not asking for hyperrealism here, but Capcom needs to at least try to make SFV look polished.
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Even if I wanted to come back, Capcom’s desperate attempts to milk the remaining playerbase for money instead of drawing people back in do not deserve support or praise. Capcom managed to implement a half-assed loot box system that fails at the most basic design goals for that mechanic, and pushing the extremely poor ad system only makes things worse; these are things that would be out of place in a $20 game, let alone a 3 year old $40 game. Sure, it’s opt in and not even year-round. But both of those features set a very bad precedent that needs to stop here before it spreads. On top of this, the asinine throttling of Fight Money several years in to only be useful to the people who play hours of ranked per day is just disgusting.
I think SFV is beyond saving at this point in its life. You can’t bring a game like SFV back from a bad launch after 3 years. It’s telling that we’re pushing 5 months without any kind of major announcement. I respect the optimism of people thinking that Capcom has something big coming, but I don’t see why Capcom would be so tight-lipped unless they don’t have anything to show. I wouldn’t even get my hopes up for SF6, as Capcom is only now making changes to its fighting game department, which I wouldn’t expect for a team that is actively working on a major title.
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Kinda busy day so i will not quote each piece or get into ping-pong argument
Also i know it started talking about DS, but the link to SF future Is easy
Random points
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SF does’nt need to be less anime.
Most of crap or criticized stuff on SFV visual side is’nt about being too anime… actually good % of that crap it’s because they tried to be LESS anime -
SF will benefit from being more “gritty”, but being more western have nothing to do with it. SF2tAM was much more serious/violent while being more jap style than SFV
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SFV sold “well” considering the amount of marketing/strategy/quality fuck ups capcom did with it. And likely got lot of extra money from DLCs
And again if we want add aesthetic to the fuckups list, being “too anime” is’nt one of them lol… if Ken actually got “anime” face SFV will have got half of shitposting memes it got LOL -
Fuck SF go McDonald to get new fans, let them eat MK shit thanks.
Try to do an actually japanese SF aiming at maximum quality as contents, gameplay, care, art direction, marketing strategy, communication and you will have a SF that sell a lot without have to sell ass and soul to america -
SF going on “dear old fans,adapt or fuck you” mindset is probably the most retard thing they can do under so many point of view lol
If anything SFV showed that SF got the most loyal fanbase of any FG, able to keep it standing even when capcom does it’s retard best to sink it lol
I work for a company that got 80+% of renewal for a service that cost to clients thousands of €€€, and grow each year
You don’t grow switching values like a goldigger slut or shitting on your core base, specially one that you can trust.
You keep your fanbase loyal by not
deluding them and showing actually interest on theyr feedback
At same time you grow using QUALITY and good rep to attract new ones
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Capcom did wrong because of the vanilla initial SFV package but it was fixed they did an amazing job that even bested SF4 and other of their previous SF games.
But yes the FM is the true negative of what’s happening right now.
Yet everything went into a disaster because of fake news that is the major problem because it deluded fans with false expectation. Even in MVCI thread that’s a major problem too. It creates toxicity and unhealthy relationship with the communication area.
The good thing is that Capcom never take advantage of it to boost their sales instead they never hint something related to it because it would back fire hard to them. I know some gaming companies would do that but not Capcom.
Capcom should always kept things the way SF theme is or else it would loose it’s identity, SF is the pioneer and there’s already a dozen of anime type games. SF being a discount of what others selling point is a bad idea.
If people wants anime they would go to play more like those games like UNIS or other titles from French Bread, ARCsys and etc type of genre.
But it’s not bad to have those theme exist as a small flavor for the variety of cast like SFV did. Take a look at Samsho and Soul there appealing point is there aesthetic themes and identity even they drastically change there gameplay time to time they still have a identity strictly in-tact. While still having some sort of anime but very minimal and never let it derail the whole thing. The last time Samsho did it was so bad in PSX.
SF2AM was made with Capcom’s strict guidelines on how an SF should be its not just a random anime do everything that is cool and trendy in anime 94 and 95.
SFV cast and new comers are very much okay compare to SF4 and SF3 in the overall.
The problem right now is people because of fake news ended up like this:
Characters > Content, Standalone mode, Gameplay and etc. (Which is cause by fake news that is a pollution and noise to the community.
Agree that’s why I didn’t intended to put gameplay in that other than content discussion because it depends of the target audience likely. Yes I do like it before that frame data is a minimal thing to analyze and combo were more freestyle.
Especially with the FM thing.
Agree even with new characters people will still request characters that weren’t supposed to be in, because they are deluded that there are things that weren’t in there and they can make it happen by threatening Capcom not to play the game anymore because of fake people online. As of now things are more of they are measuring what SFV future is. I still believe there is something in SFV but they probably just waiting if it would worked or not but it’s not something about what people thinks it is.
They just probably waiting for other FGs to drop their ball. TBH I believe that if MVCi were delayed and was release a year later after DBFZ it would had been a better game and could still be running this time.
People that keep yelling “NO ANIME” would make us a huge favor is they make their position into the more specific “no moe schoolgirls or kawaii stuff” because the first claim is way too vague and leads us to shit like DmC.
Like, if you don’t want SF to become like this:
Absolutely no problem, totally understandable, and can get behind that position.
But don’t even pretend that all anime is like that. If you truly want to throw under the bus all other kind of anime aesthetics and ambiences like the following:
Then proceed to get rekt and go to MK, KI, Injustice or whatever else rock your boat instead of trying to put into line the japanese games that have never looked like that.
Many examples of the following list are great sources of inspiration on how SF could look more serious and gritty without losing its anime aesthetic, 10 and 9 being the exceptions. Notice that this is about aesthetics and artstyle, not the plots (First Ghost in the Shell movie bored me to no end):
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Always felt like they should make a game with aesthetics based on SFII animated movie
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The odds of Capcom’s next fighter just being Street Fighter 6 are higher than they are for Darkstalkers or Rival Schools.
And while I want to hope it wouldn’t be a licensed game, I’m worried it might.
I dunno. Capcom really seems to have moved away from that kind of crap since Inafune left. And almost everything they’ve produced lately has improved as a result.
Totally! Remember how DmC made the franchise more popular than ever, and then they never ever went back!
And is not even as successful as The Orville, which manages to be more Star Trek than Discovery, without even being a Star Trek product.
You have no idea what nowadays generations find appealing. In fact, you’re the MOST out of touch person here if you think “kids aren’t into bright colors and stuff these days!”
Hey yeah! Everybody hates Dragon Ball FighterZ!
You should eat some shit. I would like you to eat some shit. It would make me happy if you ate some shit.
Hell to the yes.
- Take GGXrd’s tech
- Apply it to SF2 anime movie’s art style.
- Enjoy being the greatest SF thing.
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Because Capcom was strict at those time with brand compliance. Since that was during the time when SF was at it’s prime.
It’s like Capcom was like Disney because SF was the biggest thing in video games like we all know. That’s why it is important not just throwing random cool anime else where.
That’s why they released Mega Man 11 last year which wasn’t a AAA?
historical saturation? That’s not a thing. Don’t make shit up. It’s not hard to come up with a new fighting game with an old school feel. There’s David Sirlin Fantasy Strike, SNK’s Sam Sho reboot and Rising Thunder.
We can all agree that the “anime thing” that we wanted is an SF game with cell shaded graphics and with Street Fighter 2 aesthetics of character design. To be specific.
In the end everything is likely inspired or influence by either mix of anime, combat sports, hollywood and kungfu movies in many different fighters that’s why we can also throw references from different areas.
But the thing is there are iconic themes that separates each other that defines whole game aesthetic. Which separates for example Soul, Last Blade, PlasmaSword to Samsho.
I’m not a fan of SF2 aesthetic design. I prefer the aesthetic of SF3 with Alpha being a close second.
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Which is why I don’t want a cel-shaded game. A anime/SF2 movie artstyle, yes but not cel-shaded. Everyone and their grandma has hopped on to that and it’s lost it’s novelty as technology has improved.
For me, either Kinu or Bengus’ Alpha 3/Vampire Saviour look would make me dash to the stores.
Because people keep bringing up SF2 anime as reference or justification. Mostly everyone and I am included with that side ever since that discussion is talked. I don’t even mind it not cellshaded but even with SF2 anime and game aesthetics.
We could assume that we can have a seperate thing in aesthetics but we are mostly to agree with cell-shaded SF.
So overall most of us can agree that we favor cell-shaded technique for 3D games.
I didn’t say the ONLY do AAA games, but most of the stuff they do (or care about) nowadays is AAA stuff. There’s a reason why they didn’t highlight a new Darkstalkers; they want something that can be a guaranteed AAA hit. MM11 was a budget title.
It isn’t hard to create one. What is hard is tobe able to make it appealing for the mainstream audience; it’s hard to do something that surprises them, everything’s prrtty much made at this point. Also, fighting games are the genre with the highest curve of learning.
As for SF and DBFZ, those are already well-known and popular brands. They’re not like any other games. Mainstream audience won’t jump into an old school fighter or a game with anime aesthetics easily.
Let’s see how Samurai Shodown does… well, not a AAA title by any means…
Capcom is not making a licensed fighter anytime soon. After MvCI I don’t see anyone letting them near an IP with a 10-foot pole. In fact, Namco might have put TxSF on the backburner just to distance the game from SFxT as much as possible if they haven’t outright canceled it.
And Capcom dropping the ball on their past few fighting games is starting to have some effects on the FGC. Tekken has seen a ton of growth this generation, at least part of which came from disillusioned SF players who dropped SFV. Marvel isn’t a main stage game anymore at any major to my knowledge. DBFZ has merged parts of the MvC community with the anime community. SFV will be the only Capcom game at EVO for 2 years this summer (and will likely continue to be alone), and its viewer numbers are completely at the mercy of EVO scheduling. Capcom cannot afford another failed fighting game, as it would be the nail in the coffin for their status in the genre. This isn’t the late 2000s anymore; the competition has stepped up their game (excluding NRS I guess) and Capcom can’t just cobble together a half-assed product and sell well on brand name alone.
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Bengus’ Alpha 3 art is my personal preference, but I recognize that the SF2 anime movie would be the better, more universal choice.
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