The Ultra Inevitable Street Fighter V Story Thread

[Mattchaos]

@The_Shakunetsu

Not popularity, I positive reception and being liked.

What’s the difference?

Anyway, I don’t remember C Viper reception to be that positive. In fact I remember Ono and team being baffled because Abel was more well received when they had gone out of their way to make C Viper appeal to American taste. The only thing she has that gives her a bit of popularity is that she’s female, but one of the less liked.

It’s a proof in itself than you shouldn’t give to fan what they pretend they like.

@DarthEnder

People are dumb and dummies shouldn’t decide SF.

This, exactly.

@DarthEnder

If Capcom had made Viper a, say, Krav Maga user, I’d still hate the gadgets, but I’d approve the character.

But she is a martial artist. It is obvious when you look at the character that she is, her fighting style in the wiki doesn’t acknowledge it, ok, but her appearance in-game trumps what the wiki says.

@DarthEnder

Nobody can be disappointed with Everyone Is Here !

I don’t know, some characters have a negative value for me. Twelve, Q, Seth, … those are so lame that I would pay for them to be removed from the roster, so that I won’t have to see them in the game.

[DarthEnder]

@Mattchaos

I don’t know, some characters have a negative value for me. Twelve, Q, Seth, … those are so lame that I would pay for them to be removed from the roster, so that I won’t have to see them in the game.

Sadly, my completionist nature doesn’t allow me to exclude anyone once they’re been in.

I would however, pay for a time machine so I could go back in time and make it so characters like that were never created in the first place!

[Cestus_II]

@Fretless

To be honest, you are the last person I would want deciding a Street Fighter roster.

To be fair, while i can disagree with him at times on this matter and his everybody is here is naive af, he’s by far one of the very few that will not ruin SF if given the chance

Things i read in this thread

[DarthEnder]

@Cestus_II

he’s by far one of the very few that will not ruin SF if given the chance

Aww, that’s the the second nicest thing anyone has ever said to me, after “We can’t just let him die.”

[ruthless_nash]

Lol. I didnt read the name when I first saw that and thought it WAS poison. Goddamn perverted nerds needing to see 3D tna

[Mattchaos]

@DarthEnder

Sadly, my completionist nature doesn’t allow me to exclude anyone once they’re been in.

The inclusion of Akira must have done terrible things to you.

@DarthEnder

I would however, pay for a time machine so I could go back in time and make it so characters like that were never created in the first place!

I once saw the proposition of a kickstopper crowdfunding site. Invest to stop bad ideas before they are implemented. This is definitively something I would get beyond.

@Cestus_II

To be fair, while i can disagree with him at times on this matter and his everybody is here is naive af, he’s by far one of the very few that will not ruin SF if given the chance

I think the same. I disagree with DarthEnder on various stuff, but at least he has some good ground rules where it comes to choosing what would go into a game. Most people would simply follow the rule of cool and it would end up like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9A_F3iK4xU

[Cestus_II]

@Mattchaos

Ok, I understand. When I talk about character design, I tend to include everything in the design, not only the visual design but also the backstory, the moveset and even the stage as everything should be tied together.
So if we’re talking visual only, I mostly agree with everything you say.

ideally to me goes

• Pure character design
• Fight style/cultural reference/nation
• How it enrich SF existing cast
• Moveset design
• Stage

if first 4 (sadly SF kinda abandoned stage as a must) are great, no dumb story can ruin it

in a game like SF if a char is truly great concept wise, his story can be “want to proof his style is stronk” and i will be ok with it

A poor story may fail at make a great char concept solidify his legacy in the series, that’s true though… Abel and next Necalli are first ecample that come to my mind

Of course good story would be better than poor one (even just to have him be relevant and get picked in future chapters), but in SF i find it secondary aspect

Lot of greatest SF characters have flat/weak story, and still they work
On other hand you have let’s say, Ed and Falke that are born with story as priority and they are the mediocrity
A thing like decapre is a product of the story too

Again, i’m not against a good story at all, but i want get good SF (new) chars first, if story get in the middle of that’s a problem

[The_Shakunetsu]

@Mattchaos

What’s the difference?

Not all popularity is drawn by positive reception.

@Mattchaos

Anyway, I don’t remember C Viper reception to be that positive. In fact I remember Ono and team being baffled because Abel was more well received when they had gone out of their way to make C Viper appeal to American taste. The only thing she has that gives her a bit of popularity is that she’s female, but one of the less liked.

It’s a proof in itself than you shouldn’t give to fan what they pretend they like.

Abel had few request thats why he had niche appearances on spinoff and crossover.while compare that to Viper and Juri are the most represented character of SF4 that appeared more than anyone else that debut in SF4. I’m not a Juri or Viper fan anyway.

[Magegg]

@DarthEnder

Nobody can be disappointed with Everyone Is Here !

It depends. Would Ingrid be a part of it?

[The_Shakunetsu]

@Magegg

It depends. Would Ingrid be a part of it?

WhAT IF EVERYONE IS THERE but it include Ingrid?

i don’t mind as long it isn’t canon

[Magegg]

Mike is not in it. I’m disappointed.

[The_Shakunetsu]

@Magegg

Mike is not in it. I’m disappointed

If I would redesign Mike he would be a Balrog with kick buttons and more street boxing style but still a hard hiter.

[Magegg]

I don’t see Oni, Kage, Evil Ryu or Violent Ken there, so disappointing.

[Mattchaos]

@Cestus_II

ideally to me goes

• Pure character design
• Fight style/cultural reference/nation
• How it enrich SF existing cast
• Moveset design
• Stage

if first 4 (sadly SF kinda abandoned stage as a must) are great, no dumb story can ruin it

I wouldn’t be able to really classify and say which one is more important than the others.
I expect a new comer to be at minimum at a decent level on all those points (including the story) but even so, I can give a character a pass if he’s great at something else.
Examples:

• I think the nationality is important, but I can give a pass to a boss like dictator on that, because it might be better overall to not give him any nationality.
• Akuma is clearly the first example of Evil Ryu and it’s an extremely stupid trend, but I can give him a pass on that because everything else in his initial design was great. For me the Akuma of SF2, the one who didn’t talk and just killed was one of best if not the very best of SF designs.
• Fighting styles are usually mandatory, but in most Martial Art long running stories there is room for alternate threats: animals, cheaters, modern soldiers, brutes that are so strong they don’t need any martial arts, prodigies that are so good then don’t need much training, disciplines that are borderline martial arts and more mysticism. All those are generally antagonists and there to prove that martial art, in the end, is better, but they have their place in SF as well, so I can give a pass to some characters for that (Blanka, Dhalsim, …) as soon as they remain unique in this aspect.

So it’s the same for the story. If everything else is great, would a bad story ruins it? Depends on what you call bad. Sagat is a great design on most if not all aspects, but if his backstory was that he was secretly a lizard alien part of a world conspiracy, yes that would ruin the character for me.

And again, I think everything is tied together. So if you have a good visual design, an original fighting style and cultural/nation representation, that your character reflects and adds to the rest of the cast, a moveset that has a good gameplay, nice visuals and reflects the fighting style, and on top of that a stage that links everything together and then some, why would you go out of your way to give this character a stupid backstory? Normally if you have all of that already, the story is already there.

@Cestus_II

in a game like SF if a char is truly great concept wise, his story can be “want to proof his style is stronk” and i will be ok with it

But this is not a bad story. A bad story is “this is a cyborg created by an evil organisation” or “this guy is a pacifist, hates fighting, has never had any reason to learn how to fight, but he will enter a fighting tournament because reasons, and he will have a winning chance” or “this character is a goddess” and so on.

@Cestus_II

A poor story may fail at make a great char concept solidify his legacy in the series, that’s true though… Abel and next Necalli are first ecample that come to my mind

Necalli has sadly more issues than his failed story: dumb hair physic, useless supersayan transformation, being a remake of Garuda while not being japanese …

@Cestus_II

Lot of greatest SF characters have flat/weak story, and still they work

Flat/weak is ok. Dumb or bad is not.

@Cestus_II

On other hand you have let’s say, Ed and Falke that are born with story as priority and they are the mediocrity
A thing like decapre is a product of the story too

We can agree on that. You can still have great characters based on story, but ideally the story of the character should evolve and link with the design.

@The_Shakunetsu

Viper and Juri are the most represented character of SF4 that appeared more than anyone else that debut in SF4

1 Woman
2 Because boobs = sales doesn’t mean the character is popular or anything. After all Dead or Alive did well for a time.

[Hawkingbird]

@Cestus_II

To be fair, while i can disagree with him at times on this matter and his everybody is here is naive af, he’s by far one of the very few that will not ruin SF if given the chance

He would ruin Street Fighter. Vision is too narrow minded and limiting. It would be like having a corporate executive lead a creative endeavor.

[Magegg]

If you only want martial arts and non-weird stuff, you basically advocate for turning Street Fighter into Virtua Fighter (aka hyper-boring fighting universe no one is a fan of).

Even SF2 had Dhalsim and Blanka thrown in for good measure.

[Cestus_II]

@Magegg

My dream STREET FIGHTER Ⅵ ROSTER .

Just for teh lulz

• SF1 Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Retsu

• SF2 Chun Li, Zangief, Cammy, Guile, Vega, Sim, Fei

• SFA Cody, Gen

• SF3 Alex, Dudley, Elena, Yun, Makoto, Urien

• SF4 Juri, Abel

• SFV Kolin, Zeku, Laura, Menat

And we are at 25

• 15 new characters of my choice

• New Boss

• M.Bison, Gill, Oro and redesigned Akuma as later “secret” characters. None of them to have important plot role

= 45 chars total, like SFV
Lot of classic SF vibe, yet big expansion of SF universe

While at it, since i’m given unlimited powers

• Return to a more japanese art style, inspired on Kinu and Ikeno’s work.
  Ask who in the team would like SF to take capcom’s westernization/realism route, throw them in international waters, with a little soft rubber toy hammer to defend themselvels from sharks.
  Never let Kiki or Udon touch SF again
  You can hire external 3D modellers, but their work must fit the game art style and everything should look as if is made by same hand.
  Of course they should know the material are working on, example timeline wise SFV Alex is not supposed to be a 40yo tranny, but younger than his SF3 early 20s self

• Return of personal stages,
  Of course two chars can share same stage, just do alt version

• Story not avengers bullshit, have usual anime dumb plot with excuse to have a tournament that justify bizzarre characters from corners of the world meet and fistfight. Lot of canon interactions, fights, W and L

• Slight customization on characters, but heavy limited to prevent people do crap

• Stop ask people what they want
  Most people don’t understand design and talk design
  Most are’nt pro and talk game balance
  Most don’t even understand or care about SF values

• Improve communication on shit about to be released, do smarter schedule, stop delay on purpose good stuff filling the wait with crap
  Stop being capcom-retard essentially

• Do all you can to improve both competitive and online experience, but stop try to shove down everybodys throat esports bullshit.
  This does’nt mean don’t try to make up great events, mean don’t try to car-salesman your crap on people that don’t want it
  Damn you for ruining otherwise good cpt stages while at it

[Cestus_II]

@Hawkingbird

He would ruin Street Fighter. Vision is too narrow minded and limiting. It would be like having a corporate executive lead a creative endeavor.

I never said he would be perfect or flawless
I said some/many others that probably think his vision sucks, would be far far worse

I take good creative mind over executive
I take executive over crap creative

Also he value SF, some seem to just want change -big name SF- brand into something else they like more
Fuck them, imho

[Shockdingo]

@Cestus_II

To be fair, while i can disagree with him at times on this matter and his everybody is here is naive af, he’s by far one of the very few that will not ruin SF if given the chance

I like Darth being here and sometimes agree with him and sometimes disagree with him a lot, but his design philosophy of “martial arts only, no stylization, lean more into realism” is at times too strict. He’s in the past had issues with SF2 Bison of all things. Bison’s a fantastic boss design from the start, who cares that he’s not realistic and doesn’t have a strict real world martial art. I’d rather have him and the glowing fists he brought to SF2 that something overly realistic and boring. SF was never overtly about realism (look at all the manga references it pulled from), but if we go that way, we lose in the long run. Sure, let’s cut down on the overly sci-fi things, but if you cant accept some flair in the series that has fireballs, hurricane kicks, sonic booms and lighting kicks, then I don’t know what to say.

[Cestus_II]

@Mattchaos

So it’s the same for the story. If everything else is great, would a bad story ruins it? Depends on what you call bad. Sagat is a great design on most if not all aspects, but if his backstory was that he was secretly a lizard alien part of a world conspiracy, yes that would ruin the character for me.

Yeah my “bad” is more a “bad for people that want over complex stories” wich on contrary is totally good to me.
A Sagat like story is perfect, as allow basically any fighter to jump in SF, wich is the minimum i ask from a SF story

@Mattchaos

Fighting styles are usually mandatory, but in most Martial Art long running stories there is room for alternate threats

I have a preference for martial arts, but i write a more generic “fight style” on purpose
Sell me the style well and as long i can see it work in a SF context, we have a deal
Spiritual stuff like Sim having battle yoga or Menat using Soul Power it’s ok to me, if limited to few. Would have prefered if Menat looked able to fight a bit though
I’m loose also on other stuff, i can think concepts i would welcome that don’t come necessary from a straight martial art base

@Mattchaos

Flat/weak is ok. Dumb or bad is not.

I agree, nobody like dumb
I keep to say i would like to get “dumb” story just as provocation to mean i don’t need tryhard over complex plot (specially if become an obstacle to have martial arts fights), let alone sfv gijoe bullshit
As your good Sagat example, SF story does’nt need much plot bullshit to work nicely and not obstacle the addition of new classic SF style designs
In an universe like SF Story should support the creation of good characters that fit the saga’s spirit, not pretend to be the priority or worse obstacle