The 4 newcomers from Vanilla 4 were all good IMO, while Vanilla V had Rashid and Laura which were better than the SF4 newcomers, but it always had the obnoxious F.A.N.G. guy.
Then SF4 had Juri and Gouken which were well-received, Hakan and Decapre that were terrible and Seth that I’ve always liked but I get why most people don’t like.
The rest of the SF5 cast was pretty meh (Necalli, Lucia, Ed, Falke, Zeku, G) to my taste, it had some good characters like Kolin and Menat, but also Abigail that was stinky poop.
To my taste it was more of a draw, but SF5 slightly underwhelming because of the big amount of ‘meh’ characters.
I don’t like El Fuerte. Compared to other fictional luchadores and real ones his design is so goddamn generic. This is what I think of when I think luchadore
Even some of the older luchadores like Rey Mysterio, La Parka, Dr. Wagner, Psycho Clown looks so fucking cool. Fuerte being this generic looking annoying goofball was trash. DoA and even fucking Virtua Fighter managed to design a better looking lucha.
Viper, Juri, Hakan and Gokuen were great. I’m indifferent to Abel.
SF5 newcomers I mostly like. Laura, Rashid, Menat, Kolin, Ed & Falke, G and Lucia I like. Necalli, and FANG are meh. Abigail should have stayed in Final Fight.
It’s difficult to argue with that, even if + or - is a simplistic notation, I mean, sure Falke is boring and doesn’t bring much to the game, but can it be compared to the level of trash that is Seth? I don’t think so. One is a miss, but not really problematic, the other is full garbage and wrong at the core of the design.
It also surprise me that you consider Flake as a - and Ed as a + where Falke is the female version of Ed (which is better), with a more defined nationality (which is better), and a more unique fighting style (which is also better).
Both Ed and Falke are bad designs imo, but Falke is significantly better than Ed.
You also consider Viper a bad design because of “sci-fi” tech but give a pass to Rashid who uses sci-fi tech.
So your problem is not that she is using sci-fi tech, but using tech to fight.
This shouldn’t be allowed in a tournament, ok, but if you allow Claw’s claws, then there’s not reason to forbid other weapons.
Plus it is a trop in martial arts to have cheaters that use concealed weapons, it goes with the genre. You’re not supposed to root for them, but they totally have their place in a martial arts universe.
Still both are boring and stupid looking, but those are acceptable flaws, I guess.
I disagree. There’s a difference between martial arts weapons and modern military/sci-fi weaponry. Just because you allow someone to use nunchucks doesn’t mean they should also be allowed to use guns.
I have the same issue with Rolento’s grenades.
My problems with both of them could be fixed with simple outfit changes. And Special input changes. Can’t say the same for the others.
Changing G’s outfit wouldn’t make his core concept any less dumb.
in terms of create new characters i rank SF4 and SFV similar
SF4 had higher highs, Juri, Abel and Gouken are SF character designs of a quality that no SFV newcomer reached. Kolin (standard design, not sf3) goes the closest, to some extent Zeku follow up
SF4 did also some terrible things like decapre, oni, ingame seth
Must be said lot of the super low came when they was on very end cheap mode (decapre,oni,evilryu) or due technical problems at do the char like they wanted (concept Seth with clothes was very good, ingame they found easier have him naked)
SFV had overall positive quality, and kage aside his lows are not as low as SF4 ones
SFV have a bit of that aura where good chars still are not THAT good, and a good number having mediocrity smell
SFV also had the great merit of being generous on newcomers, they took risk and even fans opposition to give SF more characters
This on one side is super positive, on other hand shows a bit SFV lack of ability to generate a great SF designs (many shots, none hit the center). Even getting more, dropped SFV concepts were not that great, some in particular lol
I wish SF4 got the same courage SFV had, specially in starting/mid run phase… SF will have probably won some great character designs
I know, but why ? Tradition is important in martial art, but so is evolution. You find the same thematic being explored (but not always visible) in the difference of training between Ryu and other traditionalists and Guile/Charlie/Dictator/Juri where Ryu trains himself in the nature, and Guile and others are assisted by a team of scientists that help refine what they can do with Ki.
I personally prefer C Viper gadgets to Juri’s ki/cyber eye.
Or is it a question of lethality ? In this case C Viper gadgets should get a pass as they are certainly designed for this specific context, contrary to Rolento’s grenade.
Oh, I fully agree with that, which is why I consider that one negative is not equal to another. I’d rather have 3 failures like Ed/Falke than 1 like Seth.
A lot of SF characters have a good core concept in my opinion and could be become very good characters with only a bit of tweaking, and this includes characters like Blanka.
I disagree. Even if I really like those designs, all of them have flaws, same as SFV best designs.
Juri has a stupid “tandem engine” eye, Abel’s backstory is basically male version of Cammy, zero originality, and Gouken should have stayed dead.
On the other hand Zeku is a fantastic design if you exclude the fact that it integrates strider into SF continuity, I see nothing wrong with Laura, and FANG’s main issues are his dumb name and the technical limits of the 3D engine.
The simple reason why Juri is better than C.Viper is that, at her core, Juri’s fighting style is Taekwando. Her eye amplifies her Ki, making her a beast, but even without it she’d be a worthy Street Fighter. C.Viper, in turn, doesn’t use any martial art. She just uses her gadgets to do stuff and would be nothing without them. That’s the reason she falls short of being a great character.
I like her, though, as I do Rolento. I think they are good designs and even though not martial artists, their ability with those outside items does lend credence that they’d be able to put up with actual fighters. It’s only that they should be top on the line, greatly skilled with those items.
Take Raven and Master Raven in Tekken. Master Raven being introduced makes Raven’s existance pointless. He should either have never existed or should have been THE Raven. As it stands, they fucked up bad.
As long as Rolento is the only military guy, as long as C.Viper is the only gadget user, because they are the best at what they are, they fill a role in Street Fighter’s world that no one else does, so they’re fine with me.
G and Viper is widely liked and has positive reception.
It’s always be about how the current mainstream accept them positively as new original characters. The exception with that judgement is more on gameplay and game settings. They are not guest characters from some other franchise that can be judge negatively or be judge negatively by implementation. They are brand new and positively accepted that mean they are successful.
I never said that C Viper was better than Juri, quite the contrary, but that Juri’s eye was, on its own, worst than any C Viper gadget.
C Viper, after all, doesn’t rely fully on her gadgets, and I disagree that she would be nothing without, but she wouldn’t capable to compete with the best fighters of the world.
Juri’s eye is a mix of sci-fi and fantasy making it worst, in my opinion than simply being one or the other. It is also much more powerful and lethal than any gadget.
Yes base Juri is already at a good level, while base C Viper certainly falls short of being street fighter level (now that being street fighter level includes base thugs from FF, this is subject to discussion anyway), but that doesn’t change the fact that the eye is a sci-fi weapon that boost her performance way over what she would naturally achieve.
Rolento is not the only military guy, but the only one to use military weapons. Still, I agree with this. They might not be best designs, but they fill a role. In a straight tournament, both wouldn’t work, but they can lurk at the borders and influence the outcome and the story by fighting outside of the tournament, so I can accept them as well.
What I can’t accept is the visual design of C Viper.
Popularity is not a good measure, at least not a sufficient one.
Plus, how do you even measure this? I don’t have the impression that C Viper is popular, quite the contrary.
Electric gloves and jet boot heels are the extent of her tech. She ain’t Iron Man.
You got a universe where material arts give people superhuman strength and powers. I’m fine with it having wizards. I like to think of SF wizards as people with high spiritual affinity.
Balrog is also a thug. I don’t see you hold that against him.
That Lincoln is charismatic and got himself magic that instantly makes him stand out. A mystery that makes it worth investing in him. He’s a winner.
I never had a major issue with C. Viper because I saw her like this:
the battle suit is intended to be used as some James Bond tech, blasting away, using jet boots to get away, seismic gloves to break open stuff or create quakes, but she, lacking in ki discipline, patience, belief or something can’t close the distance that normal SF characters can. HOWEVER, she has enough skill to utilize these point and shoot weapons in a martial arts manner. Turning jet boots into a wheel of fire kick, mixing up the tasers and seismic gloves to alternate.
She lacks the ability to match the elemental ki and superhuman levels of the main cast, but has enough hand to hand training to have the suit do that. The suit doesn’t do EVERYTHING for her, otherwise other competent agents would be able to just throw it on and do whatever. There’s a reason she’s special to the CIA.
It’s like how Captain Commando in the manga has all this tech, but he’s an actual fighter and has the martial arts know how to do more than just use it all as a gun.
I’m talking as character designs
Juri and Abel are not affected much by these elements in SF4 (aside short moments like Ultras), and they were perfect SF design
Juri in particular fixed after 99 years the lack of korea/tkd rep in SF too
Abel gave me fighter tribute, Sambo and in someway repped judo too (being SF without pure judoka)
And aside that on pure design execution all in them was great: stylization, palette, composition, line
Gouken was not needed as them (another ansatsuken rep is something i don’t feel the need) but i have to admit he was a flawless design who perfectly done the job he was created for… if he should have got that job or stay dead is not something i’m debating
Zeku is indeed a very good design, possibly the second best addition behind Kolin
The strider thing does’nt bother me much, being far future strider world becoming canon does’nt interfere with my vision of SF world.
Wiyh striders NOT being a thing in current SF world, to me Zeku is just the founder of a new ninjutsu style
My only two problems with him are his design being overloaded of elements, some of wich not enrich it as much they just make it busy… the overall line is cool but the composition is a bit a mess. Also the palette a bit weak, colors are flashy but fail at make up a palette with strong identity.
Old alpha Zeku had a more simple yet more powerful scheme
Also while old zeku is not perfect but still good, young one is just generic “cool ninja” design as you can get without particular merits
Other thing i’m not sold on the young old gimmick… and that unlike Juri/Abel cyborg shit, it have great weight on the perception of the character
I know from wich anime tropes come from… but still feel just over the top/atypical ability for SF and does’nt make much sense for Zeku.
As far we seen Bushinryu is a mostly taijutsu (hand-to-hand) art, Zeku dropping magics feels made up as you can get.
Tbh i would have just prefered old Zeku having two style stances a la Gen, showing that he can fight both in bushinryu way or in his personal new ninjutsu
Laura is indeed potentially very good, specially when considered that her Kyra Gracie inspiration is important to appreciate her design just as much as Abel->Fedor
But Laura is just not as good as Abel
If they bothered more on her characterization rather than focus on how to use her as tits+ass for fappers she could have been very very good.
Her Battle alt shit all over her standard though, far better at everything (line, composition, palette etc)… if it was standard i would probably count her the best addition of SFV
On Fang i count him as Rufus was, or slighty better
I did’nt hated Rufus, neither i hated Fang… they fit SF in a SF wierdos way that still keep the martial/cultural imagery theme. Let’s say i take them over twelve or Seth (tranny or not) any day
I like Fang, he’s middle/upper middle level for SFV newcomer designs
‘Meh’ personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: An alright design for Street Fighter, but his personality was boring, his gameplay felt a little incomplete and lack of charm and it felt like he could have been much more than what he was.
C. VIPER
Good design
Good gameplay
‘Meh’ personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: She’s alright, a good character, gameplay first.
RUFUS
Awkward design
Good gameplay
Awkward personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: Most people don’t like him but I found his gameplay quite effective and his personality a lot of fun (his winquotes are great). He could definitely see some improvement to his design/outfit.
EL FUERTE
Mediocre design
Great gameplay
Obnoxious personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: His gampelay is great and perhaps too effective (that’s why people hates him), but his design is boring and his ‘chef persona’ and accent are quite obnoxious for we Mexicans.
GOUKEN
Good design
Good gameplay
Okay personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: Good in every aspect, a worthy Street Fighter character in the most classic way.
SETH
Awkward design
Good gameplay
Good personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: His design is kind of awkward, especially with that yin-yang thing on his belly, and some of his specials and Ultras way too over the top. I still liked his gameplay, even though most people didn’t like the recycling, but his personality was kind of throwaway.
HAKAN
Awkward design
Awkward gameplay
Awkward personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: I didn’t find him effective, I thought his design was way too exotic without any justification and his personality way too cartoony.
JURI
Good design
Good gameplay
Good personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: I wasn’t a fan of her design or personality, but people seemed to like her.
DECAPRE
‘Meh’ design
‘Meh’ gameplay
‘Meh’ personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: Can barely consider her a character.
POISON
Good design
‘Meh’ design
‘Meh’ personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: Boring. She looks good, but let’s face it, she was in mostly because of Ono’s obsession. Not worthy as a SF character.
STREET FIGHTER V
RASHID
Slightly awkward design
Good gameplay
Good personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: His design was a little mish-mashy, but he’s very likable and his gameplay very unique.
LAURA
Good design
Alright gameplay
Alright personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: She’s alright, in the same way Abel, but has a little more personality, and well, she’s a female and hot so she’s to get more Likes naturally.
NECALLI
Good design
‘Meh’ gameplay
‘Meh’ personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: He was very disappointing because he didn’t accomplish nearly as what he promised and ended being a big footnote.
F.A.N.G.
Okay design
‘Meh’ gameplay
Obnoxious personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: One of the worst personalities of SF ever. His gameplay wasn’t worthy either.
ZEKU
Okay design
Okay gameplay
‘Meh’ personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: I found his gameplay boring, even with the shift age gimmick. There’s nothing to highlight about him.
ED
Slightly underwhelming design
Slightly forced gameplay/fighting style
‘Meh’ personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: Tried to be too edgy for his own good. He’s not likable, and his mix between boxing and psycho power is too forced.
FALKE
Underwhelming design
Forced gameplay/fighting style
‘Meh’ personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: Even worse than Ed, the design is even more boring, has zero personality and a very madeup fighting style with a hyper-boring Critical Art. Most boring SF character ever.
MENAT
Great design
Great gameplay
Alright personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: She was good in everything, great and unique design, fighting style and cool animations. Nothing to complain.
KOLIN
Alright design
Good gameplay
‘Meh’ personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: The gameplay is the most interesting part about her and it makes up for the rest.
ABIGAIL
Awkward design
Alright gameplay
Obnoxious personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: Most obnoxious SF character of all time. At least his gameplay was okay.
G
Slightly awkward design
Good gameplay
Alright but slightly forced personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: The design and concept are not my cup of tea. Too ridiculous for Street Fighter (what’s next, a fighting Elvis?), but the gameplay was good and the personality is quite powerful too.
LUCIA
Bad redesign
Slightly forced gameplay/fighting style
Bad personality VERDICT/PERSONAL OPINION: Terrible generic cop redesign and personality, she became a sort of redneck girl when she was a serious detective in the original. Looks way too bratty, and don’t let me start with her vomitive alternate costumes. Also, her “K’ style” moves were very forced. I wanted Lucia, but not like this.
