That’s what we call a false dilemma
This is not an “If not this, than this” situation
No its not because thats what Akuma’s character needed and wanted that he screams over in many titles before SFV and SF4.
His still there if people wanted to seek him for advice and anything.
Even Akuma fans would probably better on this than make him beg and beg and die then beg. Fighting historical warriors and other beings is the better of akuma.
This is a fighting game, everyone needs a morivation to fight not a dram for the like of Akuma Archetype.
Yes, it makes total sense for Akuma to either be fighting people that have nothing to do with Street Fighter or…offering advice to characters that seek him out
We’re talking about the same Akuma, right?
Im not saying giving advice but being sought out like for questions.
I know you guys hated Akuma, thats why everyone here mostly pointing it to the finalle of vader and luke event that was eventual the conclusion of vader. Specially the like of Daemos that is clearly a Bison fans.
That was even last and final confrontation of the two and there is no progress other than vader dead and others proceed to procreate to the sons anď daughter generation story.
Thats why those are a disaster and would lead to more complicated excuses and terrible drama because he need to coexist with Ryu in every game. After more complicated relationships.
That doesn’t make sense for the likes of a Fighting Game character with an archetype of Akuma. They are meant to be recurring characters because they are the most sought out by both players and fans.
Gen makes sense and other dead characters he would spar on in SF universe, Akuma fighting otherworldly beings from underworld has something to do with his character thats why it made sense.
I didn’t say the crossover he did was canon, I did say it just show his ability to trancend himself but not making those appearances as canon.
Yeah I get what you’re saying, I’m just pointing out that it’s a narrative disaster
I don’t hate Akuma as a character…I hate him as a person because hypocrisy is something that irks me. He’s a heel…I should hate him. So that’s fine.
I would ACTUALLY hate Akuma as a character if he just spent his days imagining fights against non-canon entities because he’s too-cool-for-school to hang with the other SF characters.
It’s utterly worthless as a role for him.
Guess why Geese is awesome? The dude died and his LEGACY hung over Terry Bogard for games and games. And…the best part? Geese is still in a bunch of those games as a Nightmare character to fight and play as because fuck-it-why-not since it’s a game.
Also your Vader and Luke comparison remains the same ill-founded false dilemma.
The end I like for Akuma is him succumbing to his own hubris and foolishness and his power crumbling him from within with Ryu barely having to “beat” him because he’s defeated himself and Ryu just has to weather him until Akuma is consumed because his path has ALWAYS been self-destructive.
I don’t need nor want Akuma to have redemption. The only thing close he should have is realization…the realization that he’s been wrong his entire life and that his brother, Ryu and Goutetsu were right. He needs to accept the weight of his failure while being crushed by it. Then he can apologize to Ryu as he breaks away…not for what he’s done but because now Ryu will be seen as “The one that beat the master of the fist” and all those lurking in the shadows will be coming for him to make their mark and test him…
There you have a new launching point for Ryu, a new direction for some setting events, the close of Akuma’s life & arc and multipe promises of HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER!
2 Likes
Like I said it’s not about non-canon entitles but those that were dead and supernatural, in SF universe.
His not imagining things his fighting beings that are long gone or recently perish like Gen or other supernatural being like Oni and Kage.
We know this guy also exist in the astral realm.
As for the realization thing I did something like that also but in very different way of him not realizing that SNH was not something he expected, but not something he was wrong his life of his morals and values and etc like your saying. They don’t speak and the fist would do the talking mostly from Ryu and Akuma but look SFV had became a Ryu x Bison x Akuma drama already, the more future interaction of this the mode it becomes complicated.
As for the he’s too-cool-for-school to hang with the other SF characters… ORO is doing that also.
What your still want is still a Akuma waiting for Ryu, after a apology, tbh I find it silly that the need of apology for a character written with an archetype of Akuma, its like the same feeling Bison having an apology to Ed or Ryu. Its another of those out of character just to have something to be done. Look like I said it’s more of the fist than the talking for this characters no need for apologies.
Akuma growth is not for seeking validation and begging someone to fight him. It should be him trancending to fight those that is beyond human and otherworldly. Akuma doesn’t need others to compliment him.
His not separated but his just other being a hermit but fighting beyond human beings and those historical warriors.
Supernatural and spiritual is also a considered part SF and not non-canon. I did detail that the crossover guesting is not considered canon right, thats ehy it’s not a narrative disaster but rather making Akuma as a flexible character along his with his future appearance rather than being another nightmare character or returned as Oni.
As for for the false dilemma that not it was the most suggested here by his haters, So saying what my idea on his to make him relevant at same time without those complicated stuff that leads to more complicated future.
He returned with a phoenix scroll,
Then a Nightmare Version
Then the whole Garou thing then it ends there.
But know his a recurring KOF as the flagship series. Which is the SF equivalent of Capcom not FF.
In KOF they don’t detail if his dead or what, they probably regret killing him because it leads to complicated excuses as storyline.
They probably assumed that Fatal Fury and geese was a one shot character in the beginning.
And guess what they are returning to life other characters.
I mean look SNK is doing a whole new reset in disguise of making mostly every dead character exist again.
Even this two àre recurring, not as nightmare or just spirit
“Oro is doing that also”
Yeah, man, you can definitely improve a character by making them do the same thing as another character…
Akuma is wrong. Full stop. He’s also more of a martial artist than Bison because Bison is about gaining power and he considers being a warrior a sign of power. Akuma is about martial arts itself and is not gleefully evil like Bison.
Akuma’s archetype is ALL ABOUT apologizing at the end of their path because they’ve so drastically fucked up. Ryu and Akuma have LITERALLY the same goals but Akuma has screwed up every step of his own journey AND hurt people around him to do it. It’s Hokuto No Ken to the max resulting in Akuma dying with MASSIVE regrets.
Akuma dies with tears in his eyes and a head bowed to a truly superior warrior.
Bison “dies” with a mad cackle and a promise to return (which he’ll probably hold to)
That’s how their archetypes differ.
Also stop calling people haters.
Just because we don’t want to wax Akuma’s balls and call power-wanking “character development” doesn’t make us (myself or anyone else necessarily) haters
1 Like
Basically people here hates akuma for his role and archetype base on the comments and arguments they wanted him to be. The earlier and prior comments says so.
The thing is Akuma is recurring character and people that dislike and hated him need to accept his archetype in a fighting game. Thats why he needs a flexible role and disposition.
And people should treat him as his role as fighting game character not what other media like HNK that is written with an anime narrative structure not as a fighting game.
Not something that cries and in tears begging for an apology Akuma. Thats silly.
His a warrior of the fist less talk.
Thats something that would be later regret to be written because he needs to had this character appeal for his dedicated fans. His character needs to appeal with his fans not those that look upon him to be the least upon others.
Thats why Akuma is better to trancend his fist and have what he wanted to fight fallen warriòrs and those that are supernatural. He can have Gen as his usual sparring partner and fight the likes of Oni, Kage and etc supernatural that is in SF. Rather than chasing the protoganist.
The goal is to return Akuma to his badass appeal without convulted and complicated disaster of making a character of his archetype doing drama. Thats a fitting conclusion to his character and make him still available in the character select screen.
For me Akuma character in the end is all ABOUT him trancending and fighting everything beyond mere mortal. That makes him being back shrouded in mystery feared both in the underworld and the sf universe. But without the need to wait or beg for a fight, character growth of not having to be fixated to a person that is not interested but find the battle somewhere else where it is better and beyond the likes of Ryu.
That is Shin Akuma that can destroy any Oni and others beyond mere mortal reach that includes people in afterlife. No need to validate himself and beg or even give an apology. Rather than wasting time to Ryu, Just Akuma leaving and seeking fight somewhere else. Its all the fist that do the talking.
Bison preys of preteens body and uses other warriors to body to continue and exist. Akuma was someone wanted to Fight worthy opponents (no need for that to be fixated to Ryu). Thats the difference I see.
This the character his fans wants to see and this is the appeal his fans had liked. Just minus the validation, begging and apologizing to other lesser fighters.
There is no disaster or complications making Akuma the only person in SF to fight supernatural and the astral beings while isolating himself like he always do. It makes him exceptional than other cliche redundant cliche like starwars that makes him low.
Your argument is basically to strip Akuma’s character of…having a character
“Oh man Akuma should be this REALLY REALLY STRONG GUY that does REALLY REALLY STRONG THINGS and if we want to make him more interesting let’s make him REALLY REALLY STRONGERER!”
Yeah, how about that’s not interesting?
As for your seeming insecurity with Akuma ever crying…as if it emasculates him or something…
This is Raoh.
He’s approximately five thousand times the character Akuma is.
He wept when it was appropriate.
He’s also ten thousand times more bad ass than Akuma is.
So…myth busted?
People SUPER HYPER UBER into Akuma need to recognize the the characters archetype is ACTUALLY that of being an utter and total failure in their goal. He is a tragic figure who better people SHOULD weep over if they knew him and were on the right path.
Akuma is the worst kind of failure: one that hurts others on their misguided path.
That makes him GOOD as a character instead of a one dimensional ghost-punching Mary Sue edgelord
EDIT:
"No need to validate himself "
This right here? That’s such a fundamental misunderstanding of the character it’s almost scary
Akuma’s ENTIRE EXISTENCE is internal and external validation.
He was jealous over losing out to his brother.
Jealous of his master’s skill.
Insecure about his own failure to be chosen.
FFS, he’s the Street Fighter equivalent of someone that shouts “ONE V ONE ME, BRO!” after having already lost as if it will prove anything.
Akuma is insecurity personified
Why do you think his path is so selfish and harmful and ignorant? Because Akuma is a fool that can’t see the fist in front of his own face. He has quite literally spent a lifetime being fundamentally wrong about his chosen obsession.
Think about that.
Akuma is fundamentally wrong about martial arts.
5 Likes
I mean a lot of guys guys compare Raoh to either Bison then now Akuma. Raoh is Raoh and Akuma is Akuma. Both Bison and Akuma is not Raoh.
They have different media, experiences, environment and iteration so the comparison is not mutual.
HNK is anime and SF is a fighting game. A fighting game character narrative needs to be different and flexibles. Different narrative for different media. Forcing it to each other doesn’t work. A fighting game character that is most sought after is destined to be recurring every future titles.
Akuma fans doesn’t really cared of Akuma being turned into an melodramatic person that cares and needs to validate. Most of them probably just likes him badassery and quotes. The whole your week and im strong like quotes. They are the target audience here. They don’t. Hi
Changing his kind of insecurity, bitterness, envy or what you thinks as for him to grow and became pals with Ryu then wait him to fight is changing his character radically because those were iconic idealization of his role in SF.
Its like something of romantic that a girl waits for a boy to return from a war and be married together or à boy that waits for marriage to have sexual encounter kind of narrative. Thats not the conclusion and the appeal his fans wants too.
Akuma is not Iori, turning Akuma into like Iori, yonjiro, heihachi, or itachi has became a continous messed to his character.
This is why we go to many reboots and retcon to ignore mistakes that makes the character act weird like drama and romance. Akuma should just seek somewhere else where he deserve and find it.
I like Its not about making him stronger it’s about him getting What he want, what he is longing for… A fight to those that are greater than men. The fight to other otherworldly the power to similar to Guts Sword but imbued to his Fist
And this way he can fight the demons and other worldly beings.
Its not him being better than anyone else it’s about him finally getting what he deserve and want by transcending his fist becoming Shin Gouki rather than begging or asking validation for someone mortal.
The story can progress better without the need to have multiple iteration in how to write Akuma to beg for Ryu to fight him someday, after that whats next apology tears and crying? Then another fight someday?. Drama should be lessen for the likes of Akuma, Same as Ryu should be away with romance.
Akuma just being there fighting demons and in the forest that would only engage in a fight if someone ask him too and deserve the fight is a better conclusion and its flexible. Than him beging and the need of validation that needs to be written multiple versions. He doesn’t need another iteration of convincing Ryu again or messing up Ryu.
The story later can progress without them taking the spotlight and giving the story to new characters to progress. Like Ed, Alex and etc without people hating iconic characters for always taking the spotlight but still their target audience lfor specific would still like there character.
Shin Gouki is normal Gouki. Normal Gouki is a powered down Gouki (like how Freeza did in DBZ/DBS)
@YagamiFire somehow being able to read and understand Shak’s essays on why Akuma should some demon busting edgelord is making my afternoon.
4 Likes
You’re arguing to make Akuma even LESS than Akuma.
Akuma is Kaioh, btw. And the comparison was to hi-light that someone can be a bad ass and be a tragic figure and that it can be okay for such a figure to shed a tear.
Yeah and that character and be a guest character that is dead. All those fans you claim to speak for? I’m gonna clue you in, dude: they don’t give a fuck about Akuma’s story. They’re mostly edgelords and scrubs that thing he’s “the most stronkest guy” and don’t give a single squirt of liquid shit about the story going on now, before or later.
Akuma fans don’t tend to care about story or character.
In fact, considering how much you’re missing (or not reading) what I said, I’m wondering if you, as an Akuma fan, know the character…
He doesn’t need to BECOME someone that is seeking validation. He IS the character in SF that is seeking validation. Constantly. As is primary motive.
Y’know who isn’t? Oro. Oro doesn’t go around beating people up to prove his fight peepee is real big and the girls don’t laugh at it shut up Gouken is not cooler than me! Who does? Akuma.
Why? The dude is a scrub from day one. He never learned how to be a real martial artist and never will. He’ll realize he’s wrong when he dies like everyone cut from his cloth.
Akuma does not need to become about validation
Akuma is about almost nothing BUT validation
No shit. I haven’t seen a single person ask for that.
Akuma’s story arc ends with him facing Ryu and dying. D E D. Dead. Rotted out from the inside physically, morally and spiritually, he succumbs to the weakness that has defined his life. That is Akuma’s path. Not the path of “the true martial artist” but the path of “the true failure”. That has ALWAYS been his path. It is the entire point of his character over the decades of his existence. He is the edgelord insecure bully that can’t over the fact that he’s not number one while insisting that he is and that his way is the right way.
The best way for that to end is for him to be consumed by his own ignorance and hubris and crumble to nothingness, a hollow shell of what he tried to be: a true warrior. Y’know, that thing that he isn’t.
I don’t want him alone on a mountain meditating. I don’t want him reconciling with Ryu by throwing Bison down the Death Star’s reactor shaft (only for Bison to return 40 years later without explanation in charge of 10,000 Black Moons with planet-destroying lasers, of course)
I want Akuma and his story to ACTUALLY progress. Which means he dies. He has only ever been a mountain for Ryu to summit. That’s over due. It’s holding Ryu and the entirety of Street Fighter back.
Akuma deserves nothing. He is a rancid little shit who deserves to be broken and humbled in the hopes it will wake his stupid, delusional ass up to what a worthless life he has lived.
This right here might be your problem because the villains of the story? The scumbags and bullies? Yeah they don’t get what they want in these stories. They lose. Usually badly.
Not having Akuma take that L is stagnating the entirety of the Street Fighter narrative no different than if we just keep having Bison explode and return.
Again you’re asking for Akuma to fly away and do nothing relevant to the entirety of Street Fighter
It’s like you’re pining for Akuma to have some happy ending where he disappears into the sunset to punch Gozer and Shadow the Hedgehog to prove how stronkerer he is.
No one cares, man. It’s irrelevant to SF’s narrative…it’s irrelevant to Akuma’s character arc…it’s irrelevant to everything.
Everything except OMFGAKUMASOSTRONKWANKWANKWANK
LMAO Getting “what he deserve”
You realize what he deserves is getting obliterated by a real martial artist, right? What he deserves is comeuppance because he is the villain.
Here I’ll compromise…
Akuma transcends the mortal realm…
He goes to the mukai.
Jedah rips his soul out of his body after battering it to a pulp then consumes Akuma’s essence, referring to it as a light snack…because that is what would happen (considering the leagues of power separating someone like Akuma and Jedah, after all)
Let me guess though…you aren’t happy with that even though it makes sense within the canon of both universes AND has Akuma fight someone.
I guarantee you’re not happy because stronkboy Akuma loses. Badly.
Prove me wrong.
What’s next? Akuma loses and dies, bro. It’s pretty straight forward. Again, you’re creating a total false dilemma. This is not IF NOT A THEN B situation. There are other options…one of which is the logical one where Ryu beats Akuma and Akuma fucks off six feet under.
Oh and then Akuma goes into space and he fights all the aliens & predators omg and then he punches into the 40k universe and he totally owns the pimarchs ooh ooh ooh and then he goes to the Netherrealm and beats up Scorpion…
Seriously who the fuck could care about Akuma sitting in the forest fighting ghosts with battles we will never see against forces that will never be playable? FFS, he might as well go be a race car driver for how irrelevant it is to the story and characters.
You mean exactly how you could do it with having him be dead but a guest character? Or have Akuma only in dream matches like Rugal in KOF? Pretty sure SFA Cody is in GBA Final Fight and, guess what, people thought it was cool and no one lost their shit over it just being a dream-cameo. The same would be true for Akuma.
7 Likes
Jedah: Let me bless your soul, for it shall have a higher purpose than the corrupt pleasures it had once chased after!
2 Likes
Because that where he should be and his mumuring that in his win quotes and in other games also.
If you want to write something you need it on details. Thats how you do it special when about characters. Unless you in twitter.
He seeks validation if he is fixated to Ryu and Gouken in every future SF titles.
That makes him unique to Oro, So just make Akuma beat the likes of Oni, Kage, Phantom Bison, Gen from the afterlife and the rest of the supernatural in SF universe.
Thats because of modern games and being him and Ryu which was different before in zero/alpha where Ryu is the one that seeks him out and in SF3 where it wasn’t about them.
Puting Akuma to be pals with Ryu and waiting for him, crying then apology then suddening changing him in another game then making him go pals with ryu again, the berserk then pals drama again with Ryu makes his character getting worst and worst.
If people like you guys dislike Akuma and just let him deal with the Demons, Oni and Shadow he kept on saying his fighting in past games instead of making his character inconsistent and ever changing to emotional and drama to beserk then emotional and drama.
Akuma character and motivation doesn’t even need Ryu as the person to be soughf after. Akuma can be independent even in the early days. Locking him to begging Ryu the fight was already a faulty.
See you guys wanting him to die as if it is the only path andjusrt him and Ryu? Then whats next Capcom returns him to be a cyborg? Frankenstein, zombie or Oni? Because of fan request and demands?
Akuma tò return is inevitable and him returning with excuses being that is terrible.
Bison is already Astral entity for being Phantom Bison same as Kage, So no need for Akuma to be another. He needs to be different.
There are much potential for Akuma to be loved and badass again for having to deal with demons and astral figure rather than dying on Ryu.
By the way your saying Akuma martial arts is wrong? the truth is it doesn’t matter in fighting game if fictional or not what matters is the character relevance and flexibility to future titles
Like I said in the earlier post about Geese that SNK probably regret killing there characters thats why they are doing this excuse in the narrative and Capcom doesn’t need those just for sake of returning akuma.
Which a cause of the defeat of this boss lol
If Ryu is strictly done with his Satsui no Hadou struggle, then all thats left is fighting Akuma as the end of both character’s arc. That would be a spiritual and physical test for Ryu and a philosophical struggle for Akuma.
Akuma having the power to strong arm spiritual entities you have him fight gods. That’d make the story way too silly. On the other hand, Akuma is probably better served as a Gatekeeper of power levels. Characters can rise as warriors if Akuma wants to fight them.
Not really Gods but astral entities like Phantom Bison, Soul of Gen, Oni, Kage and a like.
Since there is no literal Gods in SF other than undead warriors and spirtual beings. Thats what my point is
Its better than him being Dead that everything pointing account as a conclusion. Then returning him with a weird form like they did with Nash.
As for Ryu versus Akuma thats gonna happend but it should. But not something that every game akuma is begging for a Ryu fight. They just need to fight like Ryu fights Ken same with Sagat nothing special and no drama.
Dont bother to reply just focus on the important.
He seeks validation every single moment of his canon existence since inception by virtue of having thrown a bitch fit over his brother being chosen instead of him. You do understand that the entire inciting event of Akuma’s EXISTENCE is his inability to cope with being an inferior martial artist to his brother, right?
Ryu and Gouken are IRRELEVANT to Gouki’s need for validation because even without them he is obsessively MURDERING PEOPLE TO PROVE HE’S STRONK. Do you see Oro doing that? No, because he doesn’t have the martial arts equivalent of little-dick syndrome.
This is strictly wrong. Akuma’s origin is given in Alpha and it is 100% about him seeking constant validation of his skill.
“Come on, guys! If you don’t like Akuma (even though YagamiFire already explicitly stated he DOES like Akuma) just let him beat up all the gods and demons in his own corner of the universe where he can be the stronkest!”
This is actually a little sad…
How about this?
Akuma goes to fight demons.
He meets Garuda. Garuda beats him to death.
Let me guess…just like with Jedah, even though this is the logical outcome of seeking out demons, you don’t like it.
Do you think no one noticed your total failure to address my Jedah question?
It’s revealing, man.
Yes, that is what is next. That false dilemma is LITERALLY the only thing that can happen. You can’t just have Akuma pop back up as a guest character that is still dead. I mean, that has literally never happened before with Geese and Rugal.
Nope
Never occurred. It would HAVE to escalate to Frankenkuma.
10/10 argumentation, man. Love the repeated use of false dilemmas. Doesn’t make it look at all like you only like Akuma for being a super stronkest ever edgelord character with zero personality, narrative worth or arc.
Not even a little.
Akuma’s martial arts are explicitly wrong. Overtly.
This is so basic to understanding the concepts in SF and the archetype of Akuma’s character that I find it baffling I’d even have to answer that.
Come on now.
“No wait! Okay guys hear me out. I know Akuma’s ENTIRE CHARACTER ARC FOR THIRTY YEARS has been building to a death match with Ryu…but wouldn’t it be WAY BETTER WRITING if instead of that Akuma went off and punched a bunch of demons and beat up God and then totally banged Scarlet Johannsen omg she’s my favorite I mean she’s probably Akuma’s favorite and then he could get a high-five from Tom Cruise and ride around on a motorcycle then beat up all the other fighting game bosses and get the Masamune after uppercutting Sephiroth OMG guys wouldn’t that be better than him losing to Ryu?”
How about no?
1 Like
There is always a better route to his character that is different and does not give a f*ck and that is finding a better challenge that is what he was really before modern SF games.
WTF was that, I only said of him having to spar and fight the likes of Soul of Gen, Oni, Phantom Bison, Kage, Necali and a like that is Spiritual Beings.
As having the fist that is can hurt those kind of entities similar to Gut’s Dragon Slayer in Berserk.
While you guys are talking things about Akuma are set in stone to happen in the future games to have a deathmatch with Ryu and die, That things are written to happen just what you guys claim to.
The thing is with what you are routing into isto concluded and end his character which is a negative in a fighting game.
It doesnt really matter if his martial arts is wrong, was Bison martial art right? Do he needs to apologize for that? Its doesn’t matter in a fighting game that whethere it is correct in reality or the martial arts is used for the good and evil. Since most of them used various combat practices even Juri used Taekwondo and Adon with MuThai.
He can have those match as last and final but not every game there is a deathmatch. Look the best you guys can think of Akuma returning is what SNK pulled in for Akuma but It has already done with Bison.
And probably SNK had regret those kind of narrative progression “DEATHMATCH” it is shown in Season 2 of Samsho DLC.
That SNK retcon those and retracted those narrative of DEATHMATCHES in there modern games because it’s terrible and a disaster to a fighting game.
Ryu and Akuma can duel and spar latter if they crosspath like Ryu would do with Sagat and Ken but without the need of him fixated, validating or begging for Ryu to fight him anymore in a particular condition.
It would be just Ryu fighting him understand something new, while Akuma.is just fighting him but finally find what he deserve to fight not in Ryu but in greater heights. It’s like the Alpha/Zero 2 days not like the modern sf games that are the opposite.
Other example than Gut’s Dragon Slayer in Beserk is from another SNK game like what Akari from Last Blade can do also. It’s not to make Akuma above anyone but making him unique, exceptional and reach his goal where potential opponents he deserve is now on his reach.
That he doesn’t need someone to succumb to a demon to in order to fight a demon because he can now fight demon whenever he finds it. Because finally he can fight it without the need of it having a host or posses someone like Ryu.
Thats were the Trancended Fist is for him to set a new path that is what he was longing for. To deal and spar with the likes of Oni, Phantom Bison, Kage and even Gen without the hindrance of leukemia because of being free from Flesh. No gods I mean.
Rather him dying then return into multiple form of weirdness with heavy excuse of why his that. Those aren’t reversible mistakes.
It’s not also about redemption about him finally having what he wants and needs without the need of redundant interaction with the protoganist. He doesnt need one other than moving on than being fixated with the protoganist and do multiple iteration how to do those.