It’s very important to secret society alike in real life like cults, fraternities and other religions to make reference to duality.
For example like the mason
But it the end Gill is better to be what he is today and so is Seth is.
I mean Japanese anime like those reference essentially
I so many past reference. Like in Mazinger Z.
But it’s not just on villain something protoganist as well popular and obvious references was kikaider but some still in modern.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I was prty disappointed with his story mode. I was expecting more ties with the SFV story itself, but…
I don’t think it’s a retcon, but more a change on how the events play out, just like Nash’s death was placed before Zero 3 and now it’s AFTER Zero 3 just before SFII with Vega already in a new body.
Here’s a recollection on how things might have happened:
(NOTE: While the sequence of events here might be my taking, all the events are official, canon or not.)
Sometime before the events of ASF, Urien is researching in a abandoned S.I.N. laboratory about Vega’s vessels (specifically Ed). Viper asks him “what the next potential leader was doing in a defunct S.I.N. lab.” (Recently, a rumor surfaced that he could be finishing the Doll Unit 0 started by the S.I.N.). This indicates that the next President had not yet been chosen. However, Urien, and possibly Gill, already possessed a high rank in the SS, since he could make his experiments (after bribing the Council and killing the ones that were against their plan) and Helen (not yet Kolin) could resurrect Nash, using an Eleven vessel provided by Urien, without much interference from the SS. Also from Urien’s Story Mode, he mentions that all they were doing was a farce he will enjoy to watch until the end.
Sometime between the events of ASF, the new leader/president was chosen (probably because of the seven black moons incident), Gill, with Urien being his Vice-President. Eternal Challenger mentions that Urien’s ability is on par with Gill, however, the SS chose Gill because of his emotional control and charisma. This indicates that their candidacy abilities had a tie and the SS chose Gill over Urien cause of the mentioned above and because he seemed to fit the prophecy description of the messiah.
Urien, pissed with the SS, decides to challenge Gill to claim the post of President and ruler of the SS (and the world). Gill (without Urien realizing) throws the fight and Urien is made president, however, it’s revealed that there was an Emperor, who was above the President, and that it was no other than his own older brother… Gill!
One hundred and thirty days after the events of ASF, Gill, now having 100% control of the SS (and the world at some point) decides to reveal his divinity in a fight that was meant to be broadcasted to the entire world.
Enraged by the way that Gill unveiled himself, Urien challenges Gill… and loses.
The tournament of SF3 happens, and, one year later, the events of 3rd Strike.
MY PERSONAL INPUT: Gill is a heartless SOB master of manipulation coupled with some “divine” powers. While there isn’t enough proof, he manipulated Shadaloo into making the Operations C.H.A.I.N.S. with the seven Black Moons so HE could be chosen for Presidency of the SS (although “being filled with water and flames” just like the prophecy mentioned, it wasn’t the right time for the messiah to appear, that would be in 2200. However, after seeing the seven black moons, it was all that it took to the SS chairman to choose him). Urien and Helen/Kolin were manipulated along to execute that plan. Notice that in his story, Gill plays along with what Kolin saw about the Utopia.
The SS was manipulated by Gill to be his president, and later the Emperor. He toyed with Urien about being defeated and giving the post to Urien. From the looks of things, there was never an Emperor, Gill simply made all of this to reassure that, no matter what he does, Urien will always be under him…
After their fight in Gill’s story mode, Urien, being the emotionally unstable one, openly shows who he his, losing his mask. What Gill does is to affirm that he is the chosen one from the prophecy (something that Urien KNOWS that Gill isn’t) and that he doesn’t have any more usage for him, not even as a spare, not even as his brother.
Also, him being called Emperor in his storymode, could be a mistranslation, just like with Sagat being called King and Emperor back and forth…
That is one of his random WQ from the japanese version of 3rd Strike. There might be more…
About the jewel on the brother’s foreheads:
That doesn’t seem to be the case in SFV for Urien neither Gill.
More or less accurate. But Gill’s title in his SF5 character card is “President of the Secret Society”. He was not emperor yet in ASF but became emperor/messiah after the events of ASF. I would also think that means he was already president before ASF and Urien is VP. That’s what Viper meant when she said “next potential leader”, he’s VP. The “spare”.
I disagree. What happened here was Gill saw the events playing out and he chose to take advantage of the opportunity. He was already president, but he wanted to be Messiah.
The Black Moons (known to Shadaloo as Psychopower Stratospheric Aircraft) and CHAINS are too sophisticated and specific a plot to be the manipulations of the SS. Instead these are 100% Bison’s machinations since his fall before the events of SF4.
The involvement of the SS in Shadaloo’s fall is as we saw in ASF, nothing more and nothing less until proven otherwise.
I was expecting it to at least reach the Tom fight, with Alex link to main story
Trying to watch it under a positive side, this may be part of some kind of opening for a continuation of SFV story
I know people like call SFV dead and talk about SF6 like a tomorrow afternoon thing, but personally i can see SFV getting some kind of Second General Story… at this point ASF cover only half of current cast, and many seems to have interessing stories left completely untouched:
Neo Shadaloo, Metro City group, G, new Seth etc
For what’s worth x-kira in his last datamining (the pre-Gill/Seth one) said to have found hint at a general story 2, and that after one of the last updates asf passed from “general story” to “general story vol.1”
Btw a bunch of imho interessing facts from sfv new take
With SFV you have some characters with particular background that have them part of secrets/spiritual world recognizing in him something special: G, Necalli, Dhalsim
Gill is’nt the god he claim to be, but in SFV seem no normal man either
In particular
"The Secret Society believes that after the death of each Emperor, their soul is eventually reincarnated within the world; in accordance, over one thousand and twenty-four children selected throughout the world are placed within an intensive and demanding development program to find their next leader. "
This may truly be the case for SFV Gill
G call him “ancient”… and there there’s the chance G was a Illuminato himself, so he may still stick to the cult religion… but why Necalli?
In case of Necalli w quote, eating Gill soul Nec will say
“Oh, this soul! It’s like the culmination of time eternal”
We seen for the first time Gill fighting with the purpose of win, earning with no much effort Ws over powerful individuals like G and Urien while at it.
Before some of us had the idea the brothers were equal on fighting scenario, reality is sfv made it very one-side beating
This one may be a stretch, but i still share
Gill w quote to Zangief
“If it’s a tempered body you seek, you should play with your opponent.”
This one is fun, as Gief take on purpose the opponent’s attacks to build steel body/musclepower but still try to win, while Gill just take the beating not caring to win
Interessing thing here may be that seem first hint at Gill having a purpose to do that, get a “tempered body”
I ever took it as Gill being “nice” to good fighters, wanting to not harm them in respect of their future role of citiziens in his utopia
But what if he get an actual benefit for himself, like those who get a small amount of poison daily to build immunity to it?
Again big stretch, but one of most common saying in Saint Seiya (main inspiration for Gill) the most famous/recurring*
“The same technique cannot be successfully used against a saint twice”
In theory in SS was a big deal having experienced in the past opponent’s special technique, in most cases was about gain the ability of see it/read it becoming essentially immune to it
It’s even possible this is what he found “special” after the Alex fight, maybe he realized to not have acquired a reading of his attacks
*and false lol, as heroes multiple times win by using again their attack lol
But that was mostly about show them being closer to Athena’s true path, and usually had them read/nullify the -usually much mre powerful- enemy attacks by see/read it
We’re so much villainating Gill because his not as nostalgic as Bison is, We even put the blame on him of what both Shadaloo and SIN is doing like he was responsible for it like the Black moons.
We should consider also a strong posibility that could be other in power than Gill in secret society… that probably eyeing Shadaloo’s activity since before Gill and Urien were rising in to rank or even born. Which Gill only just continued and take over it based on the prophecy.
Gill also is a brainwashed individual raise within a controlled environment and his not the founder other than someone that is choosen to take over and follow the cause.
Obviouly people fanfic here were not considering this other than imply and putting a conclusion that Gill is very 2 dimentional evil than Bison.
Not trying to put everything to Gill thats kinda weong and Gill since nowadays it shows that Gill and Secret Society isn’t one like Urien is unlike seeing it all in Urièn narrative in SF3.
That’s kinda unfair even in SF3 he had nothing to do with Shadaloo. Other than using Nash but also failed.
I think Capcom would pull in an Ash Crimson like SNK to us here. Making this that his real intention was to give it all for Urien and make Urien stronger, then he would be free after passing everything to Urien. Or Gill would change perspective later on after and event that fully put him into the highest rank after a realization.
I mean this people like Urien and Gill are not the so called founders of the secret society. So consider them also a brainwash individual too that are also balancing their experiences to what they were indoctrinated when they grow up.
That the difference from body nabbing Bison that rule shadaloo and choose female teens as his assasins and soldiers. He all his benefits and continous reign of his power compare to secret society that they passed down the rule to worthty individuals because it’s not about them but their cause compare to shadaloo.
No it’s not very misleading to force something ansargument, SF3 characters had huge variety of inspiration even Gill.
To be fair we knew Bison is from inspiration is Doom Megalopolis and was a direct ripoff of this guy…
But Gill’s design is not having main, the character is different they may have relativity but it’s not the same.
Forcing this phrase bellow to something as strong link is far reaching and bias.
Why is bias?
This is not something a saint thing alone, this is a common phrase in movies and novels against someone who would dodge or counter the same attack.
Why does he sounds like Gouken instead lol
Capcom should release next time something like injustice-1 like in mobile or similar to marvel contest of the champions instead…
Gill am Pillar Men.
How old are Gouken and Akuma? and Gill?
Have they been officially stated?
A bit back I took a risk and sent Christopher Corey Smith (G & Rufus’ english voice actor) my G analysis video and today he complimented me on this. I’m over the moon! POWER TO THE EARTH!!!
Good question, I don’t think they’ve gotten official ages, but Gill and Urien are supposed to be in their early 30s, if I recall correctly. It goes in line with the Illuminati cycle of leadership and training. The training starts at age 6 and the candidates are selected every 24 years.
As for Gouken and Akuma, I think 50s to 60s, but that’s just my guess. I don’t remember if they ever got official birth years.
Well, that might be an error of who did the card, or who translated it. However, that could be easily explained if we take into account his Height and Weight being unknown. His mini-bio mentions he is the President, but his story mentions he is the Emperor. It could be that the Emperor is a secret post that only the President and the Chairmen are aware of. Notice that even the Shadaloo stats machine lists everything about Gill “Unknown”.
Urien… well, we are dealing with 2 periods of time here. Urien’s Story Mode happens in the past… while his card and bio refers to the “present”, which, at the time, was AFTER ASF.
Urien wasn’t the VP during his story mode. Here’s Viper transcript from their “dialogue”:
Viper: “Is there a good reason the next potential leader being in a defunct S.I.N. lab?”
This is followed by the investigation about the murder of important people, bla bla bla. And then…
Viper: “We believe this could be due to a changing of the guard. So I assume the reason you’re here might be connected to said… Ungh.” Then Urien interrupts her with an Aegis Reflector.
This pretty much gives us the hint that the SS former president (and VP) was passing the torch at the time of Urien’s Story Mode.
You might say “but that doesnt fit!” Yep! Urien and Gill seems to be in their late 20s to their early 30s. AASF3 mentions that the SS new leader is nominated when the candidate is 22. However, the time span between Urien’s story mode to SF3 can’t be more than 1 year, 1yr and a half tops. So, it could be that Capcom is ignoring the age factor for being the next leader, just like they seems to forget about Cammy’s 3 year with Delta Red, since now, from Beyond the World’s timeline, the SFII events happens in 1991 instead of 1993.
So you’re saying that the seven black moons (or PSAs) and the fact the way Shadaloo’s plan (concerning the PSAs) was executed was written on the profecy… all a huge coincidence?
So what was the farse that Urien mentioned in his Story Mode? It can’t be Nash’s resurrection… he was always disdainful with Helen’s plan.
Ok. Let me express better what I meant. The SS has been pulling the strings for a long time from the shadows… Of course they have their tentacles in an huge organization like Shadaloo.
What Gill (not the SS) did, after Shadaloo’s second demise, was to sneak someone in it that would have specific instructions on how Shadaloo’s plan should appear towards the world: with seven spherical devices that would rain terror upon the citizens of the Earth. This would be in accordance with the SS prophecy, convincing their members that the time for the new messiah (and the beginning of a new society) have come.
ALL the rest is Shadaloo/S.I.N. machinations, including the re-brainwashing of the Dolls for the Operation C.H.A.I.N.S. I don’t know when exactly C.H.A.I.N.S. started to be projected, my guess is right after the destruction of the Psycho Drive, however Shadaloo wasn’t strong during SFII and that’s why they needed it’s remnants (like S.I.N.) to help. The PSAs/Black Moons started to be built (probably not projected) after S.I.N.'s fall with the kidnapping of those engineers, researches and hackers, including Li Fen and Rashid’s friend.
Now, who was in charge of Operation C.H.A.I.N.S.?
YUP!
I highly doubt this will come so straightforward into light. There will be evidences, but hardly any “in your face” proof at all… sadly.
Well, we still have Seth’s story, But I wouldn’t hold my breath that there will be anything really substantial about past events.
To be fair many cult and fraternities used relate every traģedy, disaster end crisis as a sign and part of the endtimes, So is Gill after seeing this probably tries to link it to their prophecy. Not someone who manipulate Bison to do their bidding.
I agree on Daemos on this part since Bison is sufficient on decision making. I don’t believe someone would advice Bison to do those huge things that was a under cover of secret society.
Knowing Bison with those trying to get closer with him on power management, he would already suspect something wrong.
We all know Balrog attempt something against Bison back but Bison knew this probably and knows how further this can get into same as he is aware with Seth. Yet those guys isn’t somone that relative to talk with Bison relative to psycho power on management and other things.
If there was a guy capable of doing the greatest treachery against Bison that exactly is FANG but it can be done only during Bison recover stage not beyond it because those time he needs to be dependent on other people because of lacking phyical domain.
Pushing further that the secret society is controling Bison to do those things is kinda not a good idea. It makes Bison lesser than ever makes him incapable of decision making regarding psycho power.
Gill doesn’t have to TRY to link it to their prophecy… Because it happens EXACTLY the way it’s written.
Well, that’s exactly what happened with F.A.N.G.,
who tried to kill Vega and, after seeing Vega’s Power, decides to join Shadaloo. Vega places him as second in command. He literally remodels Shadaloo, even the uniforms, and get to be in charge of their biggest operation. Do you really think he wouldn’t think about/accept any advice from his scientists if there was a possibility to increase even more his power?
Back in Zero 2, there were some Shadaloo reports to Vega about the new fighters and there were notes and even suggestions concerning them.
You are making some confusion here. It’s not the SS itself, but Gill or even Urien.
And just because Vega accepted advices and even suggestions on how to increase his power (specially when those comes from his second in command) doesn’t make him incapable of making decisions.
Visual side yes, both JJ Kars and HnK Yuda
But as character concept nothing come close to Gemini Saga from Saint Seiya, specially in his Pope Arles identity
Keep in mind at begin they even considered give Gill “Gemini” as potential name
On reality they’re supposed to be much younger
The cycle starts from their birth (as SS Is obsessed with astrology etc), not from the training beginning
I copy this
The entire program lasts for all candidates until they are 22 years of age, at which point only only one of one thousand and twenty four children involved will be worthy of the title of Presidency. Presidents who show exceptional acumen are promoted to the rank of Emperor, a secret rank which is known only to few Presidents and the Council of Elders, and is also considered the “Messiah”. All high-reigning titles last until the age of 46.
So at 22 they’re ready for the selection, i guess the process then take an year
Like President/Emperor at 23, then rule for 23 years.
Then retire at 46 and another 23 take the position
PS: i got theory Alex may be a possible candidate child, wich will place him at same age of Gill/Urien.
SF3 Alex being 23yo sounds about right
Does’nt help SFV models make some characters look very different from the age/look they’re supposed to have
They may have influences but not the main thing saying it is the main thing is cringy and force as an argument. Potential name doesnt justify either as a main thing.
Jojo media has strong influence to Capcom to consider to be more influence, you can see it even in their previous projects. Im not saying Gill is influence is Jojo like you declaring Gill main influence is Gemini in saint seiya. Since there is no such thing as “main influence” during SF3 saga unlike SF2 and Sf3. It’s bias.
Idk dude even for less mysterious characters Is a mess guess the age, but agree on that range
Counting Ryu at 30, i will say Akuma 55 and Gouken 65
But that’s random af on my side lol 
I would consider your speculation if FANG is the one to betray Bison in future because of strong potential on dependency with FANG but not during ALPHA as for Black Moon would be FANGs input but I doubt it.
Yet I still don’t consider any of Bison past activities to be string pulled by secret society which is unlikely. Those times before Ryu, Bison seems to be a very strong and confident man that only recruits men to test and acts as henchmen.
Im not because based on may earlier comments I believe the acts of Gill and Urien were just passed down to them Secret Society acts for a cause or belief which is very different from Bison that his organization is about him gaining more power and finding another body.
And I don’t believe that Bison/Vega trust anyone in his henchmen during pre Alpha his acts are entirely about his empowerment. Unless we would consider SENOH as the puppet of Secret Society or either one of their representative(Gill or Urien) that was either killed after which doesn’t mean hell have influence on bringing idea of the Black Moon to Bison.
I mean througout this years Bison/Vega ever claimed that he trusted the wrong person or either he felt betrayed he just believe he just lose control but every treachery is expected.
I don’t consider the moons and world conquering was someone in secret society plan to manipulate Bison acts in the years. It’s more of Bison familiarity to his own nature and Psycho Power.
Lol
So I finally did Gill’s story mode and man i love the little bit of depth it gave to his and Uriens realtionship. Seeing Urien break down and ask his brother to look at him, just drop the prophecy bullshit and just fucking look at him was wild. It really gives this feel of these brothers who were forced into a role thats driving one insane while the other tries to get it over with as quickly as he can.
Gill’s speech afterwards is amazing too, although he sounds like he’s being dismissive and arrogant he gives away a big part of his motivation when he mentions that once it’s all over they’ll both be free and Urien will be able to live however he wants, essentially telling Urien that he’ll never have to live as the permanent second fiddle to Gill and he’ll get to be his own person. That coupled with Urien’s arcade ending paints their whole relationship in a really interesting way rather than just the jesus and judas thing they have going on.
