The Ultra Inevitable Street Fighter V Story Thread

This is why in my headcannon, Gouka wields the purest nothing since Gouken passed down his teachings on Mu with all the dark aspects of his fighting art completely filtered and removed. He wasn’t able to do this for Ryu because he himself did not develop MNK that early on and to the highest level. In a way, Gouka would have the potential to be the polar opposite of Oni, and both extremes should be presented as bad (not necessarily villainous).

This is why Ryu is so damn cool without even realizing it himself. The path he walks on is a path that will take him far beyond Gouken and Akuma, who in their polarity with each other could not see the need for balance in all things. Oro understands because he has seen it all. Gouken as awesome as he is, is too young relatively to know what Oro knows, and he may never know, no matter how well meaning he is.

2 Likes

Ugh please let’s stop talking about Mu being an “Extreme”. It’s not.

Mu is HARMONY.

1 Like

Are you suggesting that extreme harmony cannot exist? For every action there is and can be an equally opposing reaction.

I…yes, “extreme” Harmony cannot exist.

In the conceptual framework of Mu, harmony cannot be “extreme”. It is harmonious. It is peace and oneness with existence. It is inherently impossible for that to be “extreme”

It is the taijitu. All things in balance.

The SnH is discordance. It is imbalance and imperfection and corruption. That is why it corrodes human beings and destroys them.

You cannot balance a healthy drink by making it half pure water and half sewage. It will harm the person that drinks it.

EDIT:

This is the same thing as saying you can balance usage of “The Force” and “The Dark Side”. It doesn’t work that way. Balance is not “more balanced” when you incorporate corruption and instability.

5 Likes

This is actually not true. The dose and the state of drinker is what causes harm ultimately not the fact the glass is half sewage. There is relatively an amount of sewage you can drink that will not harm or kill you.

That is in principle what Akuma is doing. He dares to drink some sewage, sees the benefit in some sewage, and gloats that his mastery over the sewage will never cause him to lose himself. He even mocks others for not daring to drink the sewage to gain every advantage possible.

Gouken inherited a glass half full of sewage from his master, and has been trying to turn it into alkaline 100% pure water ever since. He achieved a level of water purity in his old age, that Akuma’s sewage-infused attacks seem to no longer impact him (SF4 ending).

The universe is not balanced, it is imperfect, asymmetrical. Balance is a human concept and it is relative. In the SF universe, the only truly highly balanced fighter, who seems able to phase in and out of different wavelengths of ki at will is Oro.

You can call these ki types good or evil, but that would be incorrect. Positive and negative would be more accurate, without applying a moral compass to any of them. You can harness positive and negative kis without you yourself necessarily being good or evil. This is what Oro is attempting to teach us and Ryu I think. A lesson that is beyond Buddhism, beyond any idea presented to us within the universe, and certainly beyond Gouken and Akuma.

True balance cannot be the absence of chaos and discord. You cannot have life and existence without them, all you will have is Nothing(ness).

So Gouken is pulling a MCU Ancient One?

Gonna throw this out there, Daemos: you’re flat wrong on this one

Oro is ill-defined and not the end of Ryu’s journey. He has never been stated to be an all-powerful guru. He’s just powerful. That doesn’t even mean he’s right. He’s also a character introduced a full decade before Gouken was retcon’d to being alive.

The universe is harmonious. This is the fundamental foundation of the ENTIRETY of the martial arts and religious and cultural traditions that act as the basis of Street Fighter.

“Balance is a human concept”. Short-sighted. Concept is a human concept. The concept of balance is a human concept but the nature of balance is inherent to the universe and is beyond human conceptualization. That inherently contradictory nature is a cornerstone of the very nature of what enlightenment is about.

Mu and SnH are not positive and negative. Mu is universal harmoniousness and SnH is selfishness. IT is inward facing destructive desire. Mu touches that universal harmony while the Buddha EMBODIES IT. That is the path beyond. One does not achieve that by “balancing” universal consciousness with selfish, destructive desires. Those are what must be rejected but rejection of the self is, again, an inherently contradictory thing because rejecting the self requires awareness of the self therefore you cannot reject the self without acknowledging the self.

It requires understanding and enlightenment

You CANNOT harness the SnH without utilizing destructive qualities that are selfish and WRONG. Inherently. Wanting to harm others is WRONG. Full stop. Period.

What does Mu do as defense? Nothing. It remains utterly peaceful and tranquil. Why can the attacker not harm one that harnesses Mu? How do you attack the idea of something? It is impossible. It’s worse than even trying to defeat the tide of the ocean. At least you could run to the shore and slap at the waves with futility. Now try to defeat the IDEA of an ocean. An idea that persists and exists regardless of its physical existence or the existence of anyone observing it. It’s impossible. It’s contradictory. When you attack a user of Mu, as explicitly shown in SF4, NOTHING happens. You can’t even touch them because they are both there and everywhere. They are enlightened.

The greatest martial artists, like Gouken and Gen, can only briefly touch that state. An enlightened one becomes it. They reach the state of a Buddha.

Ryu doesn’t reach that state then beat Gouki because he makes an OMG SUPER UBER MU SHINKU MESSATUS HADOSHORYUTATSUKEN…

He reaches that state, Gouki observes it and then breaks down to his knees realizing his inequities…and then Ryu offers to teach him…because that is the Buddha-nature…to help and to guide and to be guided in doing so.

Gouki, polluted by SnH, can only EVER be an Asura…a force of destruction. A god of violence. The Buddha stands ABOVE gods in the cosmic pecking order. That is why being reborn as an Asura, though ABSURDLY powerful, is an undesirable rebirth…even worse than being born a human. A human can become enlightened. An Asura NEVER will be. That is the path Gouki remains on.

Ryu is a human. The true martial artist doesn’t harm others. SnH requires harming others. It requires the DESIRE to hurt others. That is not Buddhist nature.

In fact, we’ve ALREADY seen this all play out. We’ve seen the foolish human, the wandering Fool, reach enlightenment while battling the Asura who can destroy any man…just not in Street Fighter.

The Beast fights with Sing and is able to get the best of him…until when? Sing is sent to the heavens and views the Buddha. He centers himself and returns to the Beast…and attacks him. Does he win? No. He STILL doesn’t win…even though the Beast claims surrender. That doesn’t defeat the Beast…instead the Beast still attacks and can still fight. When does he stop? When Sing chooses NOT to attack the Beast. He purposefully does not strike another person…but he has all the power a human being could ever wield (and more) at his fingertips. Destroying the Beast would be trivial…such is the power of enlightenment…but the nature of enlightenment means you DON’T do that.

Though it doesn’t show it in this video, after the second Buddhist palm, Sing offers to show the Beast HOW TO DO WHAT HE CAN DO. Again: Sing offers to The Beast, the most fearsome and murderous martial artist in the entire setting of Kung-Fu Hustle, how to be as powerful as he is. He does it honestly, genuinely and as a friend. He extends his hand instead of an attack.

The result? The Beast drops to his knees, weeping, and recognizes Sing as “master”.

That is the nature of the path of the true martial artist. Not improving the self…but improving the whole world and everything in it.

That is the end of the journey between Gouki and Ryu. Ryu as a man that NEVER wields his fist against someone because it is not necessary…and, best case scenario for Gouki, a man redeemed by throwing away every single step he’s ever taken in his life because they’ve been all wrong all along.

The universe isn’t sewage. It isn’t the desire to hurt others. Buddhist nature is harmony, love and peace. It is an open palm offered to all.

It is not stupid anime bullshit where people combine 5 chakra natures to create a REALLY BIG EXPLOSION NO JUTSU because right does not make right.

Might comes with ***right***eousness.

7 Likes

As enjoyable as your posts on the matters of Buddhism and whatnot are, they are just food for thought. Even if they did indeed serve as inspiration for some ideas presented in the SF universe, and may even fill some gaps in our knowledge. They are not actually canon.

This story is canon however.

Let me direct you to a quotes of interest:

Oro just smiled as if nothing serious had happened. Only his eyes showed what they both knew; that he had been overflowing with killing intent until the moment his fist had unclenched, and Dhalsim had been serious about killing him first.

Oro swiveled on the ball of his foot and leaned out against the porch post.

"Psycho Power, Ki, the power of Yoga, the Satsui no Hado."

And Soul Power too, Dhalsim added silently. Oro closed his eyes and rested his chin on his hand, muttering.

"You know what I think? These powers are all the same, when you follow them to their root."

Oro raised a finger, and continued his thought.

"I do not claim they are completely the same. Merely connected. The same, but different."


"Yes. Power itself is neither good nor evil. Even in the case of Psycho Power, or the Satsui no Hado."

His final point he left unspoken; that labeling a power as evil only invites errors when working to suppress it.

Your Buddhist interpretation of the SNH and MNK is simply put incongruent with the data presented to us in the games. It may apply more seamlessly to other Japanese mythos, but not this one.

I also fundamentally disagree with the idea that the universe is harmonious. The universe is capable of CREATING harmony, but it is not intrinsically harmonious. It can be a violent, chaotic, and hostile place just as much. This is what makes Akuma and Bison’s perspectives (and the whole story) that much more compelling - Their worldview is not invalid.

Yes. They all flow from chi.

Note what Oro says.

“POWER” itself is neither good nor evil. “Even in the case of Psycho Power, or the Satsui No Hado”

POWER is not good nor evil. Psycho Power and Satsui No Hado are both chi. Chi exists as part of the universe. It is the “universal chi”. Human beings HARNESS it and channel it along with the portion of the universal chi they hold within themselves. That power CANNOT be good nor can it be evil. It simply IS. The manner in which one harnesses that power however MIGHT be evil. This is clarified in his later statement.

Why is this? Because the evil is not THE POWER it is the user harnessing that power.

Psycho Power is not evil because Psycho Power cannot be evil. It does not have will. It does not act. It is simply a force that exists. As a human being, HARNESSING psycho power, however, is an evil act. It is an action taken by the user to do something evil. The user harnesses LITERAL HUMAN SUFFERING to power it. That is the evil component.

Note that Oro’s entire final point is in fact about suppressing the SnH within one’s self. Why would someone need to suppress something that isn’t evil? That blows up the entire theory. It is not something you balance…it’s something you banish. But you can’t banish a power within yourself by pointing a finger of accusation at the power and going ‘It’s not my fault! It’s the power that’s evil!’ because that is inaccurate. Ryu has to look to HIMSELF and realize that the flaw is HIS OWN. The FIST is not evil, it is the wielder that wields it that is evil. You cannot suppress evil by labeling an OUTSIDE FORCE as evil when the evil comes from within yourself. Ryu would just be scapegoating the situation. He would not be confronting his own inequities and his own failings as a martial artist. He would not be confronting his own flaws as a human being.

He would be fighting an opponent by attacking a 3rd party. In this case, his opponent is himself. As long as Ryu blames “Satsui No Hado” as the source of evil corrupting him, he can’t realize he isn’t being CORRUPTED…he’s already corrupt. He has to improve himself. Period. He has to do what Akuma REFUSES to do: actually improve as a HUMAN BEING to improve as a martial artist because the martial artist is supposed to embody the pinnacle of a human being.

Oro is pointing that out. Oro says himself they are not completely the same. Of course we know this is true because different chi cultivation methods gather chi in different ways. When you follow them to the root they’re all chi…but they are still different kinds of chi because they flow into people in different ways. They are all LIGHT but they are different bandwidths of light after they are altered by the prisms of the people drawing on that light.

Warped human beings produce warped light…which rots them out. Like Bison and Akuma.

All that said…

Bison and Akuma’s worldviews aren’t “invalid”…unless you look at the entire situation as a matter of what is righteous and what is not.

Their world views are UTTERLY invalid in the face of righteousness and truth and betterment of the self and the world. The true path of the martial artist and, ultimately, of all righteous beings.

They are wrong. Inherently so.

What I like about Bison is that he gives no fucks about that. He’d grab the universe by the throat and BREAK IT to fit the mold he imposes on it with his will. He would reshape reality itself to put himself at the reins of it. That’s awesome.

Meanwhile, Akuma is a fool following a fool’s path…and he can’t even see that. That’s why I like Akuma as a character in the story but I don’t really like Akuma, if that makes sense.

Bison is an awesome bad ass. Akuma is a pitiable fool.

As for the universe…

The universe is not chaotic. At all.

All action flows from previous action. All things are connected all the way down to the smallest atoms like a giant massive clockwork of amazing precision. Even when those rules are broken and warped, you can bet your bippy that it just means they’re being broken to follow DIFFERENT rules that are just other rules unto themselves.

The universe is harmony.

What will be will be. What is is because it could never be anything different. Every moment is supposed to be a miracle because THE ENTIRETY OF EXISTENCE CONSPIRED TO MAKE THAT SINGLE MOMENT EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS. That is the harmony of Mu: accepting ones role in the entirety of the universe and realizing that the sum totality of that universe exists also within that being at every level down to the smallest fiber of that persons being.

That is Buddha nature.

You can fundamentally disagree, but that is the view of the martial arts concepts that underpin works like Hokuto No Ken and Street Fighter…and even in reality.

Y’know how I know Oro isn’t the end all be all of martial arts insight in Street Fighter?

He still fights.

7 Likes

Street Fighter IV Series Sound BOX

http://forums.ffshrine.org/showthread.php?t=234487&p=3929055

5 Likes
3 Likes

Actual photo of me waiting for important SFV news or hints:
246817-2786921-folger_image

4 Likes

Tbh since we got official date to look forward to, have zero problem with wait

Problem was and ever been theyr shitty communication and failure hype strategy

You know the day and is’nt far, just enjoy other hobbies and be ready for good SF stuff when the day come

3 Likes

About the discussion above i think Ryu will left Oro’s path

He have no desire to become Oro’s successor, that’s ORO’s wish
Like Gouken, Akuma, Bison… Everybody want to have Ryu as theyr continuation

Ryu just want learn

I think at some point Ryu will leave and Oro smiling will think that was the boy to teach him something this time

Ryu walks humanity path, become a yellow goblin hermit in a cave alone can’t be his destination, regardless of the Power reached throught Sennin path

With notable differences, but Oro is another Akuma… he may be not-evil, but still can’t give two fucks about people.
In all SF troubles only time Oro bothered go to interact with people was when he thought he needed a successor (selfish motivation)

As boring It sound, for Ryu the next lesson after the Oro arc may simply be “love”

After all there is’nt a greater meaning

Will be fun if after all these interactions with S tier gods of fighting he will realize that characters like Ken or Chun are figures to look up to

I think if one day Ryu will have to use his fist to protect his woman or his son, that will be the highest Ryu we ever seen, because it’s the most human use he can do of his fist

7 Likes

Of course, there will be an announcement sooner or later this summer/autumn, it’s merely a matter of when. Besides, I’ve been uninterested in playing SFV for a while now and I have much more better and important things to do anyways as usual.

As for Ryu, definitely agree with the idea that he’d carry on his own path rather than becoming Oro 2.0. Ryu is definitely the type of person to gradually realise that the reason to fight is not only to help your own self but to others too. I can certainly see Ryu being like SF2AM, befriending and fighting alongside other people like the Indian girl, Fei Long etc. To keep those talents to yourself only would be against the mantra and philosophy of martial arts (or from what little I know of it). I never really cared for Ryu to have a family but I’m not against the idea however I prefer him to continue being a wanderer but be far more involved with interacting with as many people as possible.

2 Likes

Street Fighter VI? Haven’t heard of that… the next step is big SFV news!
https://twitter.com/Yoshi_OnoChin/status/1154239224628912128
And that definitely makes me happy since there’s still much they can do, add and improve in the game. Plus the narrative isn’t done yet.

1 Like

Holy words

What i wanted to ear + eventhubs community on suicide watch lol

4 Likes

It’s been 7 months since they had any worthwhile news. Most companies serious about their product have updates more often.

Not sure how much water they’re going to squeeze from the stone here, but if they botch this things are going to get ugly.

1 Like

They didnt botch season 3, dont think they are botching this one either. Gotta keep in mind that a new person was put in charge of the team.

Dude probably saw that and went “fuck all this, nobody say anything until things are right”.

So we’ll wait and see. Like I’ve said before: if the game was good, people wouldnt be so desperate for updates.

2 Likes