Hmm, I see. So basically I get to pick a character I like and stick with it, I like that.
Though I’ll probably end up tier whoring anyways. Already starting to like Lars so that won’t take long.
:eek: This warmed my heart. Absolutely correct.
I once heard of a guy that played Lars/Mokujin just so he could occasionally get what was essentially Lars/Lars.
Take Mokujin VERY seriously.
I see it doesn’t have the extra characters, which is interesting, because A.Ogre, Angel, Kunimitsu, and Michelle are all very strong characters.
Mokujin’s limb size remains static regardless of who he copies. Which basically means that for some characters he copies, he has less reach, and can’t do their juggles as well, like Marduk. But for other characters, like Wang he has more reach, and can pull off more damaging juggles than the original. In the hands of a skilled tekken vet he’s actually kind of dangerous. Especially if you don’t know who’s stance he’s copying at the start of the round. No one is brave/crazy enough to pick him at a tourney though.
Combot is just kind of annoying. Since you don’t know what moves a player is going to equip on him, it can be hard knowing what to expect from him. I’m pretty sure he’s banned from tournaments because of this.
Thank you. 8)
So I’m seeing that certain combos will only punish certain recoveries. I never knew the Oki in this game was so deep.
Let the learning continue!
I think the combot ban is more likely due to having to unlock and buy all his moves on all setups and then give players time to set up their combot build on each console they use.
Would be interesting to see what would happen with customisation in fighting games if something like the dreamcast VMU was made and implimented so it’s just plug in stick/pad, there is your fancy combot thing with lazers and **** stored on it (might as well let you stick your control setup there too), select it, play.
:eek: Oki in this game is on some other shit, LOL, trust me.
Knocking someone down is pretty much the first line of the first paragraph in the prologue to an epic. The things you are capable of doing when someone is on the floor in one of 4 positions at any angle are just ridiculous crazy.
Where do you start?
On their back the opponent has 6(?) options? Quick roll left, quick roll right, roll back, roll forward, quick stand, do nothing?
:eek: I was primarily referring to the attacker, but the defender does have some options.
Don’t forget about handsprings (quick stand attack), standing 3_4 (getup attacks), cross chops and foot dives (rolling attacks)
every character has different tools that they can use to keep their wakeup game as strong as possible.
moves that hit grounded in case they lay there, moves that track techrolls, moves that pickup during a back/front roll for a juggle/reset, throws when they’re fully standing, mixups when they’re fully standing, KND3/4 baiting/punishing/crushing/countering/parrying, avoiding/parrying tagcrash, etc.
find out what tools your characters have that deal with all of these situations.
for starters, when you’re reviewing a characters movelist, moves listed under capital m or l (M, L) are moves that hit mid/low AND grounded. those are generally good tools for dealing with opponents that lay on the ground after a knockdown.
The thing that is off-putting with beginner to intermediate play seems to be that if you don’t know your opponents character intimately, it’s not even a guessing game it’s just random shit until someone hits a launcher.
It’s so fun getting randomed out to people spamming 10hits and high low strings you have no idea are coming.
Randomly guessing when you can actually punish something… the learning curve is retarded with the size of the cast and the number of moves everyone has.
Disillusioned continues below.
Oh yea lobbies suck too which doesn’t help learning matchups, i’m stuck playing quick match to actually get a game in.
Your options are; pick a popular lobby and wait 20 minutes to get blown up and back of the line. pick an lobby and the host is afk. pick a 2 player lobby and both of them are afk. finally get a game and it’s solo combot. pick anna molly lobby and get killed by scrub kill tactics. go back to quick match.
Sigh.
I did. It’s a whole nother world in this game. I can’t say definitively, but I’m almost certain my 2d gaming is leveling up simply because there aren’t quite as many options to think about while playing.
In other words, playing Tekken is making me better at 2d because I have less variables to factor while fighting. This was my assessment after tooling on some KOF thus morning.
If that makes sense…
learning what every character is capable of on a basic level is part of the fun. ten-strings are scrubby and are used to quickly dispatch of newer players. if you’re losing to ten-strings, all you need to do is learn them yourself. then you’ll recognize them and be able to block/parry/counter/whatever them during their vulnerable parts like its second nature when you see it. once your opponent witnesses that you know how to counter them 1 or 2 times, they’ll NEVER use them again against you (unless they’re stupid or just suck) because they’ll realize its only serving in getting them killed.
i actually remember playing a newish tekken player way back years ago who knew virtually EVERY characters 10-hits. he was under the impression that “ten-hit = good strategy”, and every single opportunity he got, he would perform one. we must’ve played about 20 or so games, and EVERY game whenever he did a ten-string, it got punished irregardless of what character he used. during our matches, he was surprised that i knew how to avoid them all, but i tried to explain to him ten-strings are only for beginners and won’t work against anyone who’s familiar with them. i informed him he needed to learn real combos and not rely on 10-strings to win. i can only assume he took the advice because he lost virtually every game but i never played him again.
similar to 10-strings, if you’re getting hit by slow lows that start combos (like Bryan’s d/f+3, Kings d,d/f+1, Xiayou’s SS+3), you have to learn to recognize those moves beginning animations and defend against them. the most common example of this is probably bryan’s d/f+3 (snake edge). newer players tend to get beat down for free by that move, which is actually good b/c it gets them accustomed to seeing its animation and defending against it on reaction. that in turn will help them recognize other moves like it and respond accordingly.
:eek: Okay, so this is where some people just put the game down and don’t play anymore.
In truth, when you’re learning your character you should maybe have one juggle combo maybe just so you can do some damage in case you happen to either launch or snag your opponent out of the air. The reason I say this is because most raw launchers are punishable and easy to see coming, even at lower levels of play. When you’re at a beginner stage, you want to focus more on moving and safety. What moves do I have that are safe? Which moves track? Which moves are silly unseeable lows? Why am I getting hit by this one move so much? Can I step it? Can I duck it?
To be honest, even at an intermediate level, you will tend to lose more than you will win if you still don’t know other characters and what they’re capable of, even if the opponent is a weaker player than you. Getting smacked by 10 hits isn’t fun, but you take the beating and learn when to block it or step it. I’m not going to focus on the idea of 10 hits specifically, but I’ll use them as an example. I played an old friend of mine earlier tonight who is a OG Tekken head, been playing since who knows when. He was playing King (a character I’m generally weak against), and was tossing out 10 hits once he figured I had trouble blocking it the first time. I was seeing what was going on, but my attempts to predict the low were failing until the 4th time he shot the combo. Finally nailed the low and punished it. He calmed down a bit after that, LOL. Next time he went for it, I said, “Okay, I know where the low is now…can I step any of this for something a little beefier to punish with?” Things like this are how you slowly get better. It’s painful but you have to take the beatings when you’re learning.
Don’t be content to think it’s random guessing even at low levels. If you get hit with something, your opponent will sniff it out, even if they’re TERRIBLE at the game. This is your opportunity to start learning. If they start tagging you with a certain move, tactic or string, don’t try to predict it or guess. Take the hit until you can react quickly enough to make them respect you. Of course, most strings have a high/mid or mid/low choice at the end, but you’re putting the onus on your opponent to start mixing it up (usually one is less safe than the other) and from there you can say, “Oh, so here’s their OTHER option out of this move/string/attack. Now, can I deal with this before they even get to the point where they can mix it up? If not, how can I deal with this while staying safe?” It’s just a natural progression. When I get hit with something, I instantly register it in the back of my mind and as long as the match is going on, I’m waiting until that move or situation arises again. It’s a test for myself to see how quickly I can recognize what’s going on and react accordingly. Punish someone enough times and they won’t even try to tag you with certain moves anymore, hahaha.
Your best bet as far as online go are the following:
If you’re trying to get matchup experience, you want a lobby obviously, but you want to check friendly places where people are volunteering to play you and leave feedback when you’re done. SRK, TekkenZaibatsu, etc. are all great places to find people who will play you with different matchups in long sets. This way you don’t make yourself vulnerable and if you want to have the opponent play a certain way (I ask my friend who plays Nina, for example, to do the spammiest scrubbiest safest shit he can do so I can learn how to deal with that and then move onto more refined play afterward) to help in your progression and it’s GGs and no hard feelings at the end of the night because I can guarantee unless the skill gap is impossibly immense, both players learned at least one new thing.
If you’re trying to level up in your situational awareness, you want ranked for the most part. This is where the gimmicks come out to play. You’re basically betting against yourself to see if you can shut down a team of unseeable and partially unreactable bullshit in a best of 3 single game situation. This is where you start grinding against hard-to-see lows, repetitive safe tactics and MOST of all, throw breaks. Ranked isn’t a pinnacle of competition, but it does have its place in the toolbox of the beginning and intermediate player.
I hope you still keep playing and can adjust how you’re progressing so you’re 1] having fun 2] not getting AS frustrated (it’s pretty fucking frustrating) and 3] learning and growing as you go.
Very well said. Even as someone that’s played a fair share of Tekken over the years, find myself going through that frustration phase with every new one, especially when the roster is this expansive lol. Just have ta’ keep at it. 
Tekken has always been the game that I enjoyed grinding out in training mode. I mean, I like training mode for all my fighters, but Tekken is really the game where I love it. Just sitting there learning matchups. What strings have openings, when to break throw strings, parry/punish moves, and such. It’s just fun. Fight a character I’m not familiar with. I get familiar with him. On occasion, I end up picking up characters I didn’t think to. This all came from me not having any friends and before the great online play thing happened, but still.
What’s that you say, you’re writing a guide on Tekken oki/getting up? Sweet.
Yannick writing all kinds of good stuff in here. Same with Tataki. I love the energy on this board. Great guys here, great community.
:eek: LOL you wish! I don’t even have the experience to write something like that. I can handle a movement guide, but that’s all I can credibly talk about.
I’m sure someone here could handle an oki/getup guide though. Even still, that might be something that you can’t really…read about, you know?