I’ll test this out myself as well because I don’t ever recalling being hit out of a wake up karakusa with anything but an instanr air attack or uppercut, which I guess I could be considered to be one of the latter. It really doesn’t sound right at all.
I’ll test this out myself as well because I don’t ever recalling being hit out of a wake up karakusa with anything but an instanr air attack or uppercut, which I guess I could be considered to be one of the latter. It really doesn’t sound right at all.
I do certainly approve of optimizing the “meta game” but I disagree with any kind of relegation.
I made a vid vs dud showing it Shitty iphone quality but better then nothing
Mak vs dud Meaty karakusa using replay feature
[media=youtube]iApEQKb0Bog[/media]
Long story short karakusa grabs reversal sa3 but loses to everything else including dud doing nothing. Also the karakusa is only timed to beat reversal sa3 and to show that doing a move does not end throw invulnerability.
Edit: long story short Dander if someone chooses and option that is fast enough to hit before the throw invulnerability ends it will beat a perfectly timed karakusa. (excluding this super freeze ‘glitch’)
Jak plays Makoto not ken btw lol.
No offense Lenin,but I’m super confused by what you’re saying too.
Dudley wasn’t even standing yet. I think maybe you guys are looking for a different kind of answer. They aren’t standing until they are completely standing. Yet you guys seem to want to grab them before then?
I’m sorry I said anything. Would you mind doing normals now too? I know karakusa/grabs in general can grab the uppercut, I really shouldn’t have to prove that. As for the other ones, I want to say you guys just don’t know when to actually apply pressure but you know whhat? I’m scrub so fuck it. Keep on keepin’ on.
@Ryan no biggie, at least one person understood. I was just saying sjc xx super would keep you from being grabbed out of super because SJC to special or super gives grab invulnerability in the amount of sjc frames.
as an aside, you aren’t cancelling her dash into karakusa.
Gouki fireball so dope it hits people behind him. What up, Yang teleport.
Worst decision ever by both characters there… but that happened. And it better be there as a saving grace if you wakeup fireball Makoto probably on accident. Some pull back of the hands to avoid a grab makes sense, setup that back leg karate stance. Fireball hitting so close will be on the negative frames, maybe it’ll at least confuse the other player to not immediately kill you!
That’s an argument against the priority based in examples and experience we might never hear too often. Which might make more Yun players through testing GeneiJin & “Super priority” and beating most all things, not trading. A balancing measure probably not worth talking about or gaining steam among anyone for it could be stupid to even worry about, might be to let GeneiJin keep super priority but let specials trade with those Yun Normals now with Super priority. To give a few more ways to escape than block it out, risky as shit fast normals, or walkup throw against him if he leaves an opening for those counters.
V-ism, A Groove style, get hit = lose the activated Super also an interesting look at the risk reward of facing Genei Jin head on. Ryan’s example idea once IIRC.
My bad bringing up Roll Cancels as the example, if it got caught as part of an argument. I meant no harm in that.
Since jed always brought it up to me in random talks, again my bad bringing him into this not being here anyway, but this is just closure. SF3 priority system hated, its not the game for him because of that as one major reason. So I tried to get more details on if that’s in the game code, what is up with it? It has not been in other Capcom games code he’s looked at, while another game had charge partitioning also, a cool footnote.
Asked if it was like, M.U.G.E.N. nonsense with a “priority=value(1-9)” and every coding their characters kid puts 9, to which anyone else has to code things around it, having everyone make all their attacks the highest “priority.”
SF3:3s is surely not that abusive janky for code, but the example I got was the above two things, as Tebbo can tell you. I went to jed to help answer Tebbo’s question on more direct examples of the priority system, always talked about how its in SF3 and not other games. It got a little heated in there too from misunderstandings, I’m sorry for not expecting that going into setting up the conversation, but really getting any more details and examples of the “priority system” is helpful, regardless of the bumpy road we take to get there.
It wasn’t condescending but you took it that way cause you’ve felt contradicted.
Same with 2nd part of your post here: you’re wrong, i said it, shown it with a link, with explanations, Jak said it/prove it with video, Telesniper said it with examples he personally tested, but you still think you’re right without any other proof than “i know it”. Good for us, now you’re inclined to test some things yourself so we can have your accord on what’s true in the game. If something is condescending throughout this discussion, it’s this attitude.
That, is clearer than your initial post. I wouldn’t have answered the same thing at all here…
But, we were talking about throwing a super despite its supposed throw inv frames, but here you’re adding something before the super which indeed will make the super no more throwable in the same condition (no throw activation shift) but is not relevant for the question. You can say the same with walking back a little before super, kara the super with a negative range normal when possible (mak/alex hk), etc…
Super still benefiting of wakeup throw inv or not doesn’t matter here…
I don’t think anyone here wants to throw them on wake up. The point was to show that you can’t be thrown for 6 frames, even when committing to an action (barring certain supers) on wake up. If a move were to hit meaty midscreen, Dudley could only win out using reversal SA3, EX uppercut, EX SSB (assuming said meaty would have only hit the areas Dudley “isn’t”) or Ducking (again assuming the meaty would hit high enough). ex. Makoto’s meaty cr.Strong would only lose to reversal Super and EX upper, her meaty st.Jab would only be hit by reversal Super and EX upper, but Dudley could avoid it using Short and Forward Ducking, also EX SSB, but she could block/parry before it connects.
JAK’s Karakusa was meaty, if any of Makoto’s normals intersected with Dudley on the same frame, most of ^ would apply.
What does, us, not knowing when to apply pressure have anything to do with this subject anyways?
How would dash cancelling Karakusa effect this at all? It doesn’t gain any bonus properties, they are still invulnerable to throws…
You guys wear a lot of sandals.
@ESN, is it condescending because you are letting me know now after 6 years that supers aren’t invincible throughout the super…uhh…what?
Besides I see no contradiction to my statement because I’m not stating anything outside of the obvious. The game works the way I said it does not because I say it does but because it does, you guys seem to be trying to find some cheat on wake up or something that isn’t even going to make a difference outside of your tests here.
I forgot I was talking to the three most out of the way players. So now I’ll apologize and let you guys continue your journey from catching with the tip of a karakusa to…I don’t know where because you obviously can’t catch everyone with the tip of karakusa. At least not on their first activation frame or not with her first recovery frame. Especially not if they’re airborne quickly. Dudley’s uppercut sucks. YOU CAN BE GRABBED OUT OF IT. EASY. Sorry for “yelling”.
@telesniper, we learn things regarding the game to apply them to the game we play. That’s why it matters when you apply pressure. That’s why it matters that he didn’t cancel the dash. If these are tests to determine something outside of the realm of an actual match, what good does it do you? I’m a 3rd strike player supplying advice from the realm that matters to 3rd strike players. Having 3 of you bombard me when I was just clarifying what I was saying, albeit rather vaguely it seems, I was doing nothing to cause a backlash.
Karakusa’s are not good meaty. That was one of the few things I learned first about her. There really is no benefit to it outside of grabbing a super and those are easy to read making it easy to set up the proper timing for it. No deep analysis required. You do it later to catch stray normals or uppercuts with the OS parry before it.
No, they would not gain the invulnerability. If they were to block low, crouch, tap forward to parry, anything besides neutral they would not stay invulnerable to throws. Who stays neutral on wake up? What were the conditions for your wake up tests stated? I’m telling you this is all unnecessary pseudo science that “might”, keyword might, never make out to the playing field. It’s like practicing your batting by hitting the ball at the foul post figuring out how to make it skin the inside so that you still get the homer when you could easily aim a little closer in.
My idea on the designers point of view when making the grab start and hit start frames?
You can’t kick a man while he’s down and if you try to grab him he’s in perfect position to jump real high, a squat, so no we shouldn’t make them start at the same time.
I never assumed one would be able to grab and attack from the same baseline. I’m thinking that was the assumption here. And if so, sorry for getting in your way.
Last time I’ll get in your guys’ way.
Sure thing…
EX upper can’t be grabbed, what are you going on about?
That still has NOTHING to do with whether what you say is true or not. I’m an awful player, and you’re the bess, but that doesn’t make me wrong in this regard. Dash Karakusa is the same as a Karakusa, and guess what? People use them OUTSIDE of dashes, believe it or not. And bombard is a ridiculous way of describing how this is playing out, sorry for disagreeing with you with what I experienced and tested, if disagreeing is “backlash”, then yeah, posting something wrong will get plenty of that around here. I posted tests that would have grabbed if there was no throw invincibility, clearly there is AND it remains there even after the opponent presses a button or moves, really, if you always go to neutral before waking up you’re asking to get hit meaty.
DUH, that’s what we’ve been saying. Meaty Karakusa will only catch certain supers, BECAUSE OF THROW INVINCIBILITY. You do it 3-6 frames later to catch normals, and that’s IF they don’t press a button and hit your ass before the 7th frame.
FALSE, can’t say anything but that. This thread is about learning the mechanics behind 3S, and what you’re posting is detrimental to that goal. DID YOU EVEN TEST THIS YOURSELF!? It literally takes less than 10 minutes and you’ll see where you made your mistake.
Neutral, holding down back, holding back, holding forward, dashing, button mashing etc. . NOTHING changes until either the 7th frame, or a super.
My brain hurts.
I have been testing this for 6 years, nub.
different base lines.
and why would you expect me to think you can grab EX uppercut? why? that’s what I meant by condescending with ESN. Are you alone ALL the time or something?
No, they aren’t. If someone who’s been playing for over 10 years told you what we’ve told you, what would you say?
Sorry, but experience doesn’t equal the ability sway people with fallacies.
I’d bet you my SANDALS that if you went to Japan, they’d tell you the exact same thing.
DO YOU EVEN LIFT?
I see it’s all there.
what exact same thing? That you can grab someone 5 frames later than you could normal them? That’s what I just said. You are stating it a shift brought upon by your keen intellect. I’m saying grab later instead of splitting the explanation into frames of superiority or whatever. At least someone new to the game would be able to understand what I’m saying as opposed to making the game even more esoteric than it already is. I don’t state exceptions because things like that can go without saying. Like EX uppercut, supers not being invulnerable throughout, grabs come later than hits. You know…things that require a greater level of understanding of the game.
If I went to Japan, I wouldn’t talk about the game, bro. I’d play it.
damn lenin, put down to bong and drop this discussion. youre in over your head
we should play for money. So you can finally stop acting like you’re better than me at this game.