It’s one version of his uppercut, which you said can be grabbed, EASY, even though EX upper can’t be grabbed.
You also said you were going to do tests of your own. Do them, then come back here spouting that you meant something else, yadadadadada.
No, that MOVING DOESN’T END THE THROW INVINCIBILITY. Wow, that so hard to figure out?
This is the mechanics thread, why wouldn’t we talk about frames?
No shit, the point was, what would you do if someone with vastly more experience than you (who seems to value such things) told you something that contradicts what you’ve “known” for so long?
my opinions on this game change very often because I didn’t use those tools. I just noticed these things. In play. Over time.
If your point was so strong you wouldn’t feel the need to nitpick at statements implied. I said uppercuts not EX uppercuts. Is ryu’s shakunetsu regular fireball or his EX fireball? The point is, he didn’t grab the uppercuts because he mistimed it not because of any inherent flaws in the karakusa, it was his timing that caused it to miss because it is certainly possible to grab dudley’s uppercuts.
For real now, there’s no point in replying to this because you want to be right and I’ll let you because you did us all one favor and that was proving that makoto can 100% chun. All I wanted was for outsiders that aren’t ESN, JAK, and telesniper to understand that what you guys are saying doesn’t affect much because all it dictates is if you want to maintain momentum and you happen to need to time your attack within that 6 frame window or whatever, make it an attack instead of a grab. Funny thing you guys left out was that that 6 frame window can be negated by a single tap forward or down. 5 frame parry window.
I shouldn’t have added that last bit but once again, you guys are right, in that video she was hit and only grabbed the super because she did the karakusa too early in each example. The dash cancel was in regards to something I thought I noticed but yeah that was a mistake on my part.
I don’t remember ever doing/saying anything to imply I was better than you in 3s, but you know where to find me if you want to do that. Either way this thread isn’t about discussing grudges/money matches
I get a knockdown with Alex. They’re in the corner. They quick roll. I do one dash in immediately after the knockdown. I’m feeling myself. I hit stMK (Alex) which according to this link (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=…GFQWNpWgA&sig2=lSIaM1y30gTnJl8uUFEWog&cad=rjt ) has 5 frame startup. And its beaten by them mashing crLK or MP or even crLP with the Twins and they get massive damage as a result. Even though like say Shoto crLK (Ken) has 5 frame startup and I know I hit MK way before they mashed.
Is this just an online-only problem or what? I’ve watched tons of Shend videos and I haven’t really noticed that happening so I’m left to assume it is but I have to make sure. Just like Dive Kicks become insanely better online.
I know you can always parry but I don’t have the reactions. And by that I mean I make a choice about jumping in and I’m going to do this and that and the other, I can’t adjust on the fly. So I either jump in and expect to parry or jump in HP and try to land a tick throw or combo.
you’re assuming to know my limits of understanding regarding this game. That’s enough because in this game it’s about what you know about the game that can help you. I’ll be there this weekend to play. I would also appreciate it if your friends didn’t crowd me and talk shit to me while I played to give you an edge. I know you didn’t directly step in to say “hey dandur you suck” but you didn’t add anything to it besides you don’t know what you’re talking about. If I don’y know what I’m talking about, why don’t you ever HK tatsu against me?
Dandur: 1
Phurai: 0
No grudges, it’s just that anyone that understands this game well enough can see that the karakusa was too early. They are expecting it to work in a situation that it doesn’t and providing an explanation using the baseline for hits. The reason this game is so much more different than the rest of the SF games is because it doesn’t work in such a way. Everything gets it’s own “thing”, don’t know what to call it. If you want to hit them on wake up, you have consider this. If you want to grab you have to consider that. It’s not this + 5. It’s that. As a programmer I’d figure you would understand that.
Options very depending on what knocked them down and how fast they get up.
I am not an Alex player but depending on how they were knocked down and who they are playing you might not have time to dash up and meaty them with s mk before they can mash a quick poke/throw.
*it also could be you just miss timing it but without a specific example I could not tell you.
Difficult to set up in training mode and the friends I usually play I can’t drive up to for the time being. It seems to be a specific problem against the Twins and Shoto’s. I personally chalk it up to online being dumb though.
ok bro, this is what I read in this discussion. JAK asks if super freeze negatives wakeup throw invul, ESN confirms it, and you start this tangent about how its really just any commitment to an action negating the throw invul frames, and seem to try to bolster your position by saying you are coming from a more practical frame of mind than the pure theoretical that telesniper, ESN and JAK are at. I trust ESN’s understanding of the mechanics of 3s more than you because he references data and has created invaluable tools for understanding this game. That’s not intended to be a slight against you specifically. I’d go to ESN for these types of questions before just about any socal player, including Yi or Pyro. knowledge isn’t the same as skill, and if you think I think you’re unskilled you’re wrong. I’ve probably spoken about your strengths as a player more than most
Nitpick? Really? Clarify what you mean, then no one can “nitpick” jack.
YOU’LL LET ME? Climb off that mountain friend, it’s nice down here. That wasn’t a favor, that was my stubbornness, rather, that was a lucky break that opened the flood gates to finding how stun to her from pretty much where ever you could land SA2.
.
You shouldn’t have added the last part, because it’s wrong. JAK timed the Karakusa right, so what you’re effectively saying is that SA3 PROLONGS her grabs active frames? Otherwise it wouldn’t have grabbed, because it was “too early”. What you’re saying about, committing actions negates the window is bull, plain and simple. All you have to do is hold back on wake up to see this, I guess in 6 years of play, you’ve never witnessed that before though, right?
You serious? Because I tested with more characters, not just Makoto. The same results happened. Yes, even when tapping down, forward or back.
as for testing in training mode I would pick yang (he is cooler) vs Alex record Alex doing said knockdown dashing up and doing an immediate s mk. Replay it with you controlling Yang, then quick rise you and mash cr jab/throw if it stuffs the start up of the s. mk reconsider your options and determine what options they have in this situations.
P.S. You really should dedicate time to learn all of your options on a given knockdown.
(eg if I knock down the twins with a throw I can do options A-Z. They can do such and such to beat A, this or that to beat B, etc)
I was saying her extra wake up grab invulnerability frames are negated by action and that I was mistakenly applying it to everyone. I am not saying it prolongs anything but rather that the game connects them in a much less cleaner way than it would with a super freeze. Not exactly what I’m saying but given your explanation of it, that applies itself rather well. I was saying you guys are expecting the karakusa to work when it can’t. I know you guys are explaining why it can’t but in your explanations for why it can’t you are using the hit, as opposed to grab, baseline. Maybe you’re establishing a grab baseline?
And here ^ I’m stating that I got confused in thinking that Makoto’s extra grab invulnerability frames applied to everyone and not saying any of it as an attempt to refute the evidence provided but rather a composite explanation of it. You are Makoto in your explanations. I am the game. I am not literally the game, that is my point of reference.
I can’t stay mad at you, you’re too cute. But seriously, you’re right, bad on me for thinking practical experience is worth more than a scoped analysis. It’s nearly impossible to catch every frame and remember it well enough. And there’s no sarcasm in any of those statements.
I should also say I’m sorry. I don’t want to turn this into me vs you anymore than it has to be. I’m sorry about that, bro.
I was going to ask if that’s what you were referring to. Yeah, Makoto has 2 (?) extra frames of hit and throw invincibility if she remains neutral from wake up. Only those 2 are negated when movement or a button press happens.
I just got caught up in the movement negates… phrase. I wouldn’t expect Karakusa to work in those situations, I’m actually glad it doesn’t.
yay /misunderstanding
Bad lag definitely causes some meaties to get mashed out of. Can’t count the amount of times Makoto’s meaty st.Strong has been Jabbed, it’s annoying, but I can only hope that the patch will remedy this at least somewhat.
The whole point of this discussion, jak’s video, and esn’s demonstration isn’t to learn how to beat meaty karakusa or how to grab wake up super.
This discussion is about throw invulnerability on wakeup. Everyone has it and there is a way to take advantage of it. It is common knowledge in Japan now about the throw invulnerability frames. This is called guard jump. What people do now is guard for 6 frames on wake up and then jump after. What this does is you will guard meaties and then not get karakusad (or any other kind of command or regular throw). This isn’t a 100% safe choice but it takes care of two options if done correctly and can take out the “guessing” factor of playing vs Makoto. It also creates a whole new meta game but that’s another can of worms.
You need to take a chill pill man. Drink some beers and smoke a lil blunt. It’s really wack to get so offended and heated. This is 2012!! Get rid of that “I’m better than you” attitude and you will find yourself a better person and player. IMO this was SoCals biggest problem with the scene and really held back a lot of peoples potential.
SoCal 3rd Strike is not infallible. There are other people in this world who love and study 3rd Strike as much as you do. There are still new things being discovered and shared amongst us all. So get out under that SoCal rock and fight for the future!