The System Mechanics Thread

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
1

Since there is no comprehensive source for system data on this game (for non-Japanese players!), I thought we should start a thread to collect all of the random information that the players may already know or be debating about. Use this thread to post or ask about system mechanics, any little random tidbit of information. I will try to filter the thread and compile the answers together, and hopefully organize it.

PARRY:
When an attack is parried, the parrier and the object being parried are frozen for 16 frames. Note that the object may actually be a projectile, in which case the projectile would be frozen and not the character who threw it. During this 16 frames, the parrier can cancel into block and parry, and can tech throws (note that since you cannot intitiate a throw, you can only tech after the throw connects). In
addition to this intial 16 frames, the object is frozen for another few frames, depending on the attack: Jabs/Shorts–4 more frames; Strongs/Forwards–3 more frames; Fierces/Roundhouses–2 more frames; Specials/Supers–0 more frames. Once the object is unfrozen, the attack resumes its animation and can be cancelled into another attack as if it had connected.

(Some projectile attacks do not seem to freeze when parried because they are actually several individual attacks that approach you at the same time, rather than one multi-hit attack as is the case with Akuma’s Red Fireball for example. Oro’s EX Yagyou Dama and Akuma’s KKZ act in this way, even though they seem like one big projectile.)

If a parry is successful, your character will automatically parry any other attack that hits you within the next 2 frames.

The game ingnores your inputs during the freeze for air parries. However, you can still buffer inputs during the freeze for ground parries.

If a jumping attack is parried, the attacker is reset to a neutral state upon recovery of the attack if it recovers before he lands. This means he is once again free to attack or parry, and even block low upon landing (trip guard). If it does not recover before he lands, he will be stuck in a small recovery upon landing.

Parry resets the juggle count (and thus resets all scaling).

You cannot parry 1 frame before the end of YOUR attack’s recovery as in CvS2.

Is your parry attempt negated by entering another command? For example, if I push Forward, then quickly hold Back to block, will the parry attempt last while I am trying to block? If so, that would make option select parry vey powerful, and would allow you to incorporate a parry command into the motion of another command. For example, if you motion D-Df-F, would that count as a low-parry and high-parry attempt?

At what points in the air can you parry? That is, how far off the ground must you be to parry?

Can you buffer the parry command? That is, can you press Forward before your character is actually able to parry, for example, in the recovery of a move?

THROWING:
Normal throws have 2 frames of startup, 1 active hitting frame (I’m guessing), and 21 frames of recovery if the throw misses.

A normal throw can be teched during the 5 frames after it connects by inputting LP+LK. A normal throw that connects while the opponent is in the startup of a normal throw will cause a tech. You cannot tech a throw if you were grabbed out of an attack.

You cannot be grabbed while you are in blockstun. You cannot be grabbed while you are airborne or in prejump. And in general, you cannot be grabbed during hitstun.

Are command grabs techable? If so, can they only be tech on their 1 active frame? Can a command grab can be used to tech a normal grab?

Does this game have throw immunity periods like the other Street Fighter games? For example, can you be thrown immediately after leaving blockstun, or after waking up? I’m sure there are some throw immunity rules put in place, but if they exist, they seem very short. Anybody know where these come into play, and how long they last?

2

Juggling

There is an internal juggle count. When an attack juggles an opponent, the juggle count increases by a certain amount dependant on the attack. The launching attack contributes to the juggle count.

There are 3 states a juggled opponent can be in–Air Knockdown, Air Reel, and Air Recovery:
During Air Knockdown, any attack will juggle, as long as the juggle count has not reached 6.
During Air Recovery, only certain super moves will juggle, as long as the juggle count has not reached 6.
During Air Reel, any attack will juggle (regardless of the juggle count).

Notes:
Most normal attacks send the opponent into Air Reel–Air Recovery. Most special moves/super moves send the opponent into Air Reel–Air Knockdown. Every attack sends the opponent into Air Reel–Air Knockdown if the opponent is stunned.

Each hit of a multi-hit attack has an individual juggle value. The attacks in this game have various juggle values. Perhaps some are as low as 0. Some can be as high as 6, immediately ending a juggle. Some even reset the juggle count. All UOHs are worth 1 count; all air normals are worth 3 counts. Check here for the other juggle values: http://www6.plala.or.jp/tosaka/count.htm

The combo message in this game appears immediately when and only when a combo cannot continue. This is helpful in determining the juggle values of attacks.

Note the distinction between a juggle and a combo. A juggle during Air Recovery is not a combo in this game. There is only one action the opponent can do during Air Recovery, which is a parry, but this allows him to foil your juggle attempt. Thus you cannot truly combo an opponent while he is in Air Recovery. The combo ends and the combo message appears as soon as he enters Air Recovery.

3

I think it works in a similar fassion to grabs. Where as you can’t cancel into a grab, it’s similar with the throw. Take Aegis Reflector for an example. You can’t throw an Aegis, get them in block stun and throw them, you need to wait till they have recovered before they can be thrown. Although different, it exists in a similar sense with tick throws. There is also a little glitch with the whiff throw I believe, where if you are crouching and go to tech a throw, you won’t go through the whiff frames and will save you from being punnished if it is failed. Although on the other hand if you land it you will successfully tech throw.

4

Well sure, that’s true, you can’t be grabbed (grab/throw are the same thing to me) while you are in blockstun or hitstun (except in that special “turned-around” state, and if you’re airborne I guess), just like the other SFs.

But can you be grabbed immediately when you recover, or is it like CvS2 for example where your opponent must wait for a bit before grabbing you? My guess is the latter, but the throw immunity window is very small.

I think what you’re saying about teching while crouching is that you will get a whiffed jab/short instead of a whiffed throw, because you can’t actually attempt a throw while crouching, correct?

Here’s another topic: how does damage scaling work?

5

No. The S.MP sends him into Air-Reel -> Air-Recovery, and Shinkuu Hadoken is not one of the super moves in the game that juggles during Air-Recovery. Even if you cancelled the S.MP into Shinkuu during Air-Reel, the Shinkuu would not connect with him fast enough to catch him while he was still in Air-Reel. He would be in Air-Recovery by then.

6

Oops, sorry! Actually, Shinkuu Hadoken does juggle during Air Recovery. But the juggles Juchel was asking about still do not work because the juggle value of S.MP is too high. It immediately puts the juggle count over the limit. Bottom line, if you reset with S.MP, the juggle is over unless you can hit him fast enough while he’s still in Air Reel, and Shinkuu Hadoken can’t do that. Cl.LP instead of the MP will work however, since the juggle value Cl.LP is low enough.

I’m surprised nobody snapped at that…either nobody understands, or nobody cares.:sad:

BTW, I edited the “Juggling” section.

7

As I stated in another thread, you can break the 6-point limit by hitting someone on the way up. Also, juggle points have no effect on a grounded opponent unless the hit has a launch property. Oro’s 2-hit close Strong does 1+3 juggle points on a grounded opponent because the first hit on its own launches, but Urien’s low Fierce does 0+2 juggle points on a grounded opponent because the first hit does NOT launch by itself.

Here’s an example combo (thanks True_Tech): http://media.putfile.com/heyah

Low Fierce (0+2 points), EX Headbutt (1+2 points), standing Strong (1 point) XX Headbutt (3 points).

After the standing Strong, all 6 juggle points are used up. However, the headbutt combos because Ken is still on the way up (barely) when it connects.

Another simple example is to have Ryu juggle a stunned opponent with six close Jabs. Cancel the last Jab into a DP quickly enough and it connects, even though you obviously used up all 6 points.

Finally, this explains that 7-hit Necro juggle on Makoto we saw on Popy a long time ago. That seventh hit managed to nick Makoto on her way up.

8

Taunt data

Source: http://www.ream.ais.ne.jp/~joh/3rd/system.htm
Because of rounding, the math doesn’t always add up.

TAUNTS (specific bonuses for each character)

Alex

Unheld taunt - Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 9.4% for the first taunt and 6.3% for each additional taunt. Maximum: 6 taunts, 37.5% bonus.

Held taunt - Increases damage for the next hit/combo or throw by 6.3% per extra arm turn. Maximum: 8 turns, 50% bonus.

Yun

Unheld taunt (works for held too) - Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 6.4% for each taunt/hat twirl. Maximum 8 taunts/twirls, 50% bonus.

Held taunt only - Increases damage for the next throw by 6.3% for the first extra twirl and 3.1% for every additional twirl. Maximum 7 extra twirls, 25% bonus.

Yang

Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3% and increases damage for the next throw by 6.3%. One taunt is the maximum.

Ryu

Increases stun recovery rate by 10% for the first taunt and an additional 21% for the second taunt. Lasts the whole round. Maximum 2 taunts, 33% bonus.

Ken

Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3%. One taunt is the maximum.

Ibuki

Increases damage for the next hit/combo/throw by 43.8% only if she gets the leapfrog. Otherwise you get nothing. Maximum one taunt.

Elena

Increases stun damage for the next hit/combo by 18.8% per taunt. Maximum 4 taunts, 75% bonus.

Necro

Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3%. Holding the taunt does nothing bonus-wise. One taunt is the maximum.

Oro

Recovers stun by 600-800% as the taunt is held longer.

Sean

Increases stun damage for the next hit/combo by 12.5% per ball thrown. If Sean throws nothing (ie. another ball on the screen), there is no bonus. Maximum 3 balls thrown, 37.5% bonus.

Dudley

Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 25% if a rose is thrown. Like Sean, there’s no bonus if the rose isn’t actually thrown. One taunt is the maximum.

Hugo

Unheld taunt - Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 18.8% (maximum 1 taunt). Also increases defence for the rest of the round by 6.3% per taunt (maximum 4 taunts, 25% bonus).

Held taunt - Increases damage for the next hit/combo/throw by 25%. One taunt is the maximum.

Poison - No bonus.

Urien

Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3%. One taunt is the maximum.

Akuma

Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 43.8% and increases stun damage for the next hit/combo by 28.1%. One taunt is the maximum.

Chun-Li

Yawn (happens 100% of the time) - Increases stun recovery rate by 10% for the first yawn and an additional 21% for the second yawn. Lasts the whole round. Maximum 2 yawns, 33% bonus.

Shoulder tap (happens 21% of the time) - Increases defense by 18.8%. Lasts for the whole round. Maximum one shoulder tap.

Neck stretch (happens 38% of the time) - Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3%. Maximum one neck stretch.

Back stretch (happens 15% of the time) - Increases defense by 31.3% (more than the shoulder tap) for the whole round. Also increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3%. Maximum one back stretch.

Q

Increases defense for the whole round by 12.5% (maximum 3 taunts, 37.5% bonus). Also increases stun recovery rate for the whole round by 10% (one taunt is the maximum).

Twelve

It turns you invisible for a while.

Remy

Increases stun damage for the next hit/combo by 18.8% per taunt. Maximum 4 taunts, 75% bonus.

Makoto

Part 1 - Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3% per taunt. Maximum 2 taunts, 62.5% damage.

Part 2 - Replaces a second Part 1 taunt. One two-part taunt is the maximum.

Part 3 - Increases stun recovery rate by 10% for the first full taunt and an additional 21% for the second full taunt. Lasts the whole round. Maximum 2 full taunt, 33% bonus.

Hayate taunt - No bonus.

9

Stun data

Like any other Capcom game, a direction or button (not including start) reduces dizzy time by one frame per input. With a programmable pad, you can shave down stun time to 1/7th of the figures given below. That’s how KYSG can mash out of dizzies in as few as 13 frames.

Depending on the last attack that you ate before the stars/birdies/angels/reapers appear, the game will randomly choose one out of 4 numbers. This number is the number of frames you would be dizzy without mashing.

Normal move - 90 or 110 or 130 or 150 frames
Normal throw - 120 or 140 or 160 or 180 frames
Special hit - 150 or 170 or 190 or 210 frames
Special throw - 120 or 160 or 200 or 240 frames
Super hit - 120 or 160 or 200 or 240 frames
Super throw - 150 or 190 or 230 or 270 frames

UOH’s and taunts aren’t mentioned, but I’d assume they count as special moves.

10

It’d be nice to have frame data up as well since Karathrow died.

11

http://web.archive.org/web/20040415190018/www.karathrow.com/dudley.html

12

karathrow is = dc data so can’t be trusted on some things :frowning:

13

how come this isn’t stickied already?

14

Random questions:

What are the number of frames allowed to break a throw?

I feel kind of stupid asking this (I should know), but are there instances where you can parry before you block? As in, someone tries to punish…you could parry, but you couldn’t yet block? Think this is no…

If you’re thrown out of something, is the throw still technically breakable if you can react fast enough (should know this too…)? I think this is yes…

Thanks, and awesome info so far.

15

I have absolutley no idea what you are talking about. You didn’t explain that in the best of ways like.

16

If your thrown out of a move you cant tech out of it.

17

Long story short, you have 5 frames to tech a throw. However, you cannot tech a throw on the EXACT frame the opponent’s throw connects, ie. pressing Jab+Short exactly 2 frames after the opponent does.

I don’t know for sure if you can tech a throw that snatched you out of a move, but I do know that you can tech a throw that catches you in parrystun. For example, Akuma tries to chip you to death with red fireball xx SA1. You start to parry, but he walks up and throws you while you’re parrying. You can tech that throw.

“Combo breaker parries” seem to only be in CvS2, but that’s a guess.

18

How do throws on wake up characters work.

You just been knocked down and your opponent (Makuto in this instance) stands above you and whiffs some MPs, even while your down. You get up and she grabs you for free! How does that work?

Also want someone to explain throwing when your the wake character.

Thanks.

19

Thanks for the responses. Guess it wasn’t stupid…just poor wording? =p

What I was getting at with the block/parry…an example: say Ken vs. Ryu - Ryu blocks a Ken sweep, and then Ryu tries to punish with a sweep, but Ryu reacts slowly - it’s fast enough however that Ken couldn’t block it, but not fast enough that he couldn’t parry it. Not saying this is fact…but this is what was meant by the question. I was going to test punishing specific things in parry training and was trying to figure it out first.

20

You’re saying you want to parry during recovery when blocking isn’t possible? You can’t do that. Otherwise there wouldn’t be reversals since they could be parried. You can’t do anything during recovery, be it moving, blocking/parrying, or teching a throw.

Oh and thanks for the great info Jinrai.