The Super Guy Match-Up Thread: Check First Posts! (Updated: 01-24-2011)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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What do you guys think of the new Iplaywinner tier list?

Maybe there’s been some kind of new discovery I’m unaware of, but I just can’t see Guy having an advantage on Guile or going even with Balrog.

I think he deserves to be higher up than before, but alot of those 5 -5 matchups seem like token numbers just thrown in there because so few “top players” (god I hate that term) use him. He certainly has more than 5 bad matchups and at least a couple 3 - 7 against him.

Also for Seth, what’s the reasoning in giving Guy the advantage? Bushin throw because Seth normally spends so much time flying through the air? Seth beats Guy on the ground and can zone him better than most. Why should he bother going for anything fancy and/or risky?

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^ I’ve had the same problem with Devil Reverse. No good punish. I’ve since considered trying Bushin flip to start an offense or land the throw but have not had a chance to try it. Any advice will be appreciated.

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Devils reverse can be beaten by neutral jump roundhouse at certain distances.I think neutral jump roundhouse is one of Guys most under used moves,people should experiment more with it.

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okay here we go

VS Akuma

Sooo if you havent already heard, theres this dude in town. Yeah, Akuma. Oh youve heard of him ? Isnt he an asshole ? always jumping around throwin fireballs and trying this crazy idea that he calls a “vortex”. Pshhh hes just another push over, right ? Not really…

Everyone knows that good Akumas vortex. Period. Youre going to have to learn how to deal with it, which means learning how to block. Since this is the most common thing you will see once he gets a knockdown, lets talk about this first. He has a shitload of options once he gets a knockdown. He can DF Spike (breaks focus + untech knockdown), Divekick (sets up combos), DF throw (beats focus/blocking), DF Sweep ( beats high blocks), DF early spike (whiffs the spike and essentially becomes a safejump), crossover fireball on your wakeup (block direction confusion), crossover j.mk (…crossover…) and so on. as you can see, this becomes a HUGE guessing game. which means youre going to have to learn to build up your reaction time and know what to do. all of those options can be nullified by blocking high except the DF Sweep and the DF Throw. DF Sweep kinda takes a while so if you dont see him do one of the other things, expect the sweep. it doesnt come out often, but just be cautious of it. the DF throw can grab you even if youre crouching i believe ( or so ive heard from a pretty damn good akuma player i was playing with ) so mix it up with backdashes/lk tatsu. also, EX tatsu will beat all of the options if he does them deep. if he does them at the peak of his jump, he can hit you out of EX tatsu with divekick or DF spike. i understand its hard to react to these things consistently every time so dont worry, i understand…seriously. just do the best you can. now besides being caught in his vortex, youre going to be caught chasing him all over the damn screen, particularly after you knock him down. hes going to get up and teleport away. theres no reason for him not to. well thats not true. you can OS his teleports with run/slide. make sure you do it or else its going to be hard to get to him again. if you see him jump up for an air fireball, depending on the angle of it, you can run/slide under and catch him as he lands. remember, you can also EX Run through his fireballs and hozanto through his FB’s. if hes playing footsies with you be careful. he has a few counter hit setups. one example is cr.mp(blocked)>cr.mp. if you throw anything out other than an invincible move, youll at best trade with him. run/stop pressure is kinda voided due to teleport (sadface). luckily he has very low health and a single Bushin flip throw will take off near a quarter of his health. he wont be jumping in on you unless youre on wakeup or he leads it off with a fireball of some kind. dont focus his air fireballs. you can get punished pretty easily. lastly, he can OS his super / ultra upon landing from either a demon flip or any jumpin. i dont suggest focusing any of his jumpins as it will mean a guaranteed ultra/super for him. the most important thing to know in this matchup is how to block. you will do your damage, and every hit of yours counts for more than his does (due to health ratios). think about the matchup, dont guess. look for patterns. dont get frustrated if you take a few knockdowns from his vortex, its going to happen. just stay poised and find a way to get out.

hope some of this has helped, let me know

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@ ElMouchoLoco

the stomp portion can be beaten out air to air by command elbow/Izuna and can also beat beaten out on the ground by cr.mk (learn to time it in training).

the second hit (after the stomp) can be EASILY beaten by Izuna / j.hp.

if they just stomp you (blocked) then go back, you can punish it with run/slide.

as for devils reverse, you can izuna it. otherwise, i dont think any of our normals beat it out clean. cr.mk might be safe, not positive. just block it. no reason not to.

@Duck Strong

read my write up on Guile for info on that matchup…it should be 5-5, not in eithers favor. it all depends on if Guy can get in or not.

i think the matchup with rog is 6-4 Rog. I have a write up on that one as well.

and being completely honest, i think he only has 3 matchups that arent in his favor. Rog, Honda, and Fei Long (dont flame me for this, i have a legit reason. im working on a write up for it right now). other than those three, hes AT LEAST even. he has quite a few matchups that can easily go in his favor, and none that can completely shut him down. were not talking about blanka vs hawk here. Guy is very slept on. Ive played A LOT of good players using the entire cast. I know my matchups pretty well if i do say so. Some people think im too optimistic about Guys matchups, but i think im being fair. if you know how to approach each character, you can take them down. you just need to think.

regarding Seth, basically what is comes down to is the fact that when Guy has meter, Seth cant zone him at all. EX run will get you in vs his limbs and his booms (including EX). Once you get a knockdown on him all he can do is DP. again, EX meter will destroy his DP attempts (EX Bushin Flip). not to mention if you DO get the bushin flip reset combo on him, it takes away 3/4’s of his health. you can also get in vs his booms easily with HP Hozanto. Seth has pretty bad recovery time on his fireballs (even worse on EX). there are a few other small things, but this is what it basically breaks down to.

oh yeah, a single Bushin Flip throw will take away 1/4th of his health. ridiculous.

hope its helped

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Thanks.

So far i know, you can’t know if Bison did stomp or devil’s reverse when he fly towards you, can’t you?
If i guess stomp and jump with izuna, he might devil reverse, evade me, and own me on the way down…
I’ll try the cr.mk right now.

Vs Akuma.
-DF Throw can grab you crouched, (and that is the thing that guy is missing in his flip to be a beast!).

-DF hp spike own focus and is very fast on recovery. He can keep the pressure if you blocked, he will option select in case you did backdash guessing the DF throw, and it can break your ex-dash and focus.

If he did the hp early he will recover really fast and it works like a safe jump if you did ex-tatsu.

-DF dive kick hits you if you crouch guard, and starts a combo. He can crossup with that too, he can option select the backdash too.

-DF and slide is really slow and unsafe on block, but it have a lot of active frames. It is done doing the dive motion but not pushing any button in the air, so it is the last (and unsafe) option for akuma. If you see akuma doing nothing in the dive as he falls down from the jump, block low, and punish hard.

-He can normal jump crossup mk (jump aiming for a crossup), same crossup jump as ryu, but he can normal jump and df dive kick at the peak of the jump and change the timming and don’t crossup…

-And he can normal jump (it won’t look as if he is aiming for a crossup) and do lk tatsu in air to float a little and crossup you with the tatsu and score another knockdown… or don’t do the tatsu and normal jump (without crossup)…

Akuma’s options are really scary, and most of those are safe for akuma if you guess right, and gives him another knockdown if you guess wrong.
You have to guess between standing block (choose a side, wait a split second and crouch block and tech tick throws), focus, backdash, ex-tatsu, ex-run, jump away, and sometimes a standing lp.

The good thing about Guy in this matchup is that if Guy guesses right with the ex-tatsu, the damage is great, and ex-run is a good option vs a couple of the vortex options.

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thanks for the info on akuma guys. i dunno if run stop pressure is nullified actually since i think you can option select to punish teleport maybe? but nonetheless, every bit of info is bomb! thanks for your time :slight_smile:

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no, run / stop pressure is kinda nullified…if you have him in the corner, as soon as you do run / anything, hes going to teleport away. you cant OS if youre already running. I guess you could run/stop > run/stop to catch the teleport…but if you guess wrong and he doesnt teleport youre going to eat a huge combo and he gets to start his vortex for free. I dont think thats a good risk/reward ratio personally

129

Well if he teleports away you can run after him or Wall jump and tag him possibly? But not at all times will he Teleport. Plus if you react quickly I’m sure you can do Run/slide

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Thread updated. :tup:

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Was playing against a Fei Long yesterday and found out that you can snuff out a reversal Chicken Wing with cl. st. hk Was pretty amazed by this one

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If your close to Cody and he goes for a neutral jump fierce,cr.strong from Guy beats it on the way down.

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last thing about the vega matchup which is important:

option select his wakeups with crouch tech then plink cr.hk. if they do a backdash / backflip, the cr.lk will whiff and your cr.hk will come out and hit them. if they dont backdash /etc, youll just do a cr.lk (either blocked or hit ), if he tries to wakeup grab, youll tech it, and if he tries to EX ST, youll block. its lovely. try it

134

new data I have discovered that can potentially move Guy up on the tier list a few notches:

EX Bushin has complete throw invincibility (meaning we can get out of commad grabs / ultras and punish for 200 free damage now)

something else that i dont think has been explored enough is the fact that EX Bushin also has PROJECTILE invincibility (kinda self explanitory)…whats pretty interesting though is what happens when you look at certain moves from other characters…here are a few examples…

Bisons EX Psycho Crusher… is ONLY projectile hitbox… meaning no more free ambiguous crossups on our wakeup. and if he spaces it wrong, free 200 dmg for us

Vipers Burn Kicks… The flames on her burn kicks (which are her only hitboxes) are PROJECTILE hitboxes…meaning no more ambiguous crossup burn kick shenanigans. EX Bushin on our wakeup, and you get a free 200 dmg because she will be in mindfuck stun due to what just happened, and landing recovery from her whiffed BK.

any command grab will also lose to EX Bushin.

think about the magnitude of this…think gief/hawk vortex…abel roll>TT shenanigans/ Step kick > TT shenanigans…Hakan oiled EX 360 P grab shenanigans…Seth Sonic Boom fadc teleport > command grab (it will go through both the boom AND his command grab and youll do 1/4th of his health FO FREE)…no more E.Honda jab tick Orochi…

EX Bushin is godlike now…seriously…borderline OP

i honestly think this can change the viper matchup to 6:4 our favor.

wow and i wasnt even thinking of some of the other applications to using it that JUST popped in my head…

Ryus cr.mk xx hado … now we know that we can mk tatsu to beat out the hado…but now we can also EX Bushin it for a SHIT TON more damage <33

im going to have sooo much fun with this…im going to whore out EX Bushin like there is no tomorrow…

/endrant

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Going to make a thread about it so we can knowledge of all the moves it can evade.

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Wow I didnt know about evading viper’s burn kicks or bisons’ psycho crusher, good stuff .

I’ve used it sparingly in the past vs giefs, abels and hawks but i’ve found that its a very risky move to do as more often than not you will get poked out of the ex flip.

Also I think I’ve tried punishing c.mk >hadou with ex flip and ate a few shoryuken into ultra 1s. It might’ve been my slow reactions but i learnt my lesson and never tried it again on Ryu.

137

Honestly, I think you’re making EX Bushin Flip to be a tad stronger than it actually is. I’ve used it a few times against Viper (and her ambiguous cross up Burn Kicks on Guy’s wake up) and Ryu (cr.MK xx Hadouken). From my experience, I’m pretty sure both characters recover before Guy has a chance to get the grab. Though, I wouldn’t mind some further testing for actual confirmation. If it truly does work in every situation you listed, this information would be a huge finding.

I wish my computer could handle HD video, so I could analyze the hit box videos without it lagging.

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str[e]ak is sort of right. EX Bushin Flip is not as OP as you might think. Some situations like Ryu’s will have you at a disadvantage. However, EX Bushin Flip has more then invincibility against projectiles and throws. It also has ambiguous qualities as well. Try using it when your opponent attempts to cross you over. You’ll know what I’m saying when it happens. Same thing goes for Sims air teleport. Note also that EX Bushin Flip loses it’s invincibility after you are in midair. That means you are acceptable to projectiles like Akuma and Goukens Hadoukens and any type of air throw. It’s still a very useful move in many situations, but it’s far from overpowered. If you ask me it needs to be buffed so it has invincibility against all forms of attacks during the first 5 frames.

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doing testing right now.

@ Shin_Akuma
you cant use it to get out of crossups, it has no hit invincibility

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Unless its Vega…