this is where you need to learn footsies.
walk in and out of the range and sweep it on reaction for a clean knockdown.
or even throw st.mk to stuff it out once in a while.
and he really cant do much after the cr.mk at max distance because of your mk tatsu or FA dash U2
a couple of notes.
Cammy
Option select with throw+cr.mk during her block strings for trade + knockdown.
Rufus
EX messiah goes over guy close range like ryu on hit.
Bison
Guy can block EX pc on bisons wake up after throwing out a jab.
Heatblazn if you try to OS throw + cr. MK vs. Cammy, and Cammy wises up to it, and nails you with a TK Cannon Strike…?
sorry let me explain
if cammy gets you in a block string (WHICH SHE WILL!!) Os throw with cr.mk stop her throws and if she tk strikes, the cr.mk will trade or beat it giving you an untechable knock down.
I know how to play footsies thanks; I do all the things you mentioned, but you can’t win a match trying to get around cr.mk the whole time.
Why would the shotos care about doing anything after the cr.mk? The whole point is that they don’t need to. He can just wait until Guy gets close enough for it to connect without worrying about st.mk(not that a stray st.mk will win the match anyway). The range at which Guy’s st.mk stuffs a shoto cr.mk clean is outside the range where it would connect if the shoto does nothing. Slide might hit once or twice, but the moment it’s blocked say hello to free dp into ultra.
You can’t win pecking away for 70 and 90 damage at a time.
And focusing a hado into U2 is incredibly risky to begin with.
In the end, as strange as it sounds, the shoto actually wants you to get in his grill because he’s better than you up close and you offer 0 threat from further out. You see the problem now?
^^
I wish our forums had a “like” button.
you say guy can’t win getting around cr.mk but shotos can win with just cr.mk?
Slide only needs to be hit once or twice to turn momentum. and I said on reaction. If hes just doing that to keep you out, then it should be really easy to sweep on reaction. Also I dont think he can dp you from that range on block.
I forgot to mention you can also walk in and out of the range and throw st.mp into run stop or something too.
Also you dont HAVE to engage if you don’t want. you can get a life lead run away and build meters until he gets reckless.
I’m saying shoto cr.mk limits Guy’s options to the point where his only way to win (and we’re talking terrible odds here) is to peck away with st.mk and random slide (which can be punished with dp from all but the furthest range where it gets stuffed by cr.mk).
A random landed slided will not magically turn the odds in your favor either. Shotos can even use cr.mk on wakeup if they plink it with reversal timing, which isn’t that hard.
You can’t walk in and out of anything when there’s a wall of cr.mk going on.
And no, I’m not talking about them doing it stupidly. When you put a stupid good normal in the hands of someone who can play footsies well and with some measure of discretion, it gets ugly fast.
cr.mk on wake up?
Guy has a million frame traps.
anyways if he just does cr.mk all day, why not just block it? what else is he going to do?
how exactly are you losing? is he walking up to you and cr.mk all day at perfect range?
you can’t walk back or anything?
is he cr.mking all day until you do something?
do you have a reference?
Yes cr.mk on wakeup. The only thing that will hit it is a well placed jump hk which is easy to spot. Cr.mk also nullifies Guy’s crossup game after a knockdown (not to mention late dp as well).
Frame traps don’t apply when you can’t get in close enough to get them to block anything in the first place.
No, of course it’s not just cr.mk all day. I was being facetious, but that’s the crux of the problem. You’ll be getting chipped here and there by the odd fireball so turtling is out of the question (not that Guy is really good at that anyway).
If you walk back, you can’t really hit him with anything can you? We’ve already gone over the ranges I’m talking about.
Test it yourself in training dude. Cr.mk really is that bad.
It definitely seems like MK Tatsu OS is the best option against Bison.
If Bison does:
Bison’s wake up options aren’t very dangerous individually. The problem is having to react to so many possible situations. It’s possiblee to react to a wake up teleport with a run-slide, but it’s not very practical when you’re being forced to guess against 3-4 scenarios, all of which require different counters on reaction. Having a single OS that covers all your bases is VERY good.
wow im so confused by your first statement about cr.mk on wakeup.
are you saying ryu likes to do cr.mk on his wakeup? why the hell would he do that?
you really shouldn’t be jumping on ryu on his wake up.
Frame traps dont work? when you get the sweep knock down you can get in!
walking back is a part of footsies if hes following you and throwing out cr.mk you can probably hit him with a sweep before he can cr.mk you.
I dealt with cr.mk all of vanilla and learned its range and sweep it on reaction.
yes its hard but you’re making it out to be its 10 -0 for guy.
it must be the same with ken and akuma too. and they have better footsies save ex fireball
I think we get why shoto cr.mk is annoying… but it’s just a normal. You could meaty it… focus it… reversal it… with near anyone… and guy has more options. You could ex hoz… ex izuna (2 different options here)… ex run will go right through it and when you here that armor hit sound tap mk… hey a knockdown…
Of course having the options means keeping a clear head and using them wisely.
Yeah… that option isn’t incredibly great to use EX run cause if they do Tatsu or SRK you’re done.
Anyways I ran into Saqs while going through Rank matches, Did alright against his Guy. Lost the match but he has those skills :x
Then ran into him a second time fighting his Rose… got annihilated. >.> Wish i had more match up experience with Rose. I got tired of running into the same old traditional people.
Get a friend to press nothing but cr.mk and see how easy it is to get in. Next step back and imagine for one second someone doing it with some intent and half a brain.
super lol and using ex run or ex hozanto. EX hozanto is a free dragonpunch everytime it’s blocked. How fricking hard do you think it is to just not do a cr.mk and bait it? That and it will get stuffed by the cr.mk if it’s already out.
Yes I meant on his wakeup. Most characters, you can at least try for a crossup to bait their dp in the wrong direction; shotos can just reversal cr.mk.
The risk involved in trying to hit the cr.mk is completely disproportionate to the meager reward.
If you get a knockdown, you damn well better make good use of it because they will be few and far between.
Kiryu Tsukimiya himself called the match impossible.
Just played a money match against one of the best Ryu’s around (he managed to beat Momochi a bunch of times when he came around) and I lost in the most ridiculously lopsided fashion.
Honestly, the cr.MK is only half the problem. The other half is smart use of f+HP. Without the f+HP, you can FA and press s.MK just outside cr.MK range and have a pretty decent counter to cr.MK poking. However, Guy has no risk-efficient way to discourage Ryu from walking back and forth and randomly pressing f+HP at close to max range, and f+HP murders FAs and punishes whiffed s.MKs if he did it at the same time (for 300+ damage, I might add).
The only way to discourage f+HPs is to do cr.HK slides when he tries to walk into range for f+HP, but that in itself is very risky.
The other half of the equation is that once you’re knocked down, there really doesn’t seem to be a way to beat the cross up Tatsu/meaty safe jump mix up. You have to guess, and its not exactly a 50/50 in your favour. Ultra 2 beats safe jumps, but loses to Tatsus. Cr.LK beats Tatsus, but loses to safe jumps. Ex Tatsu almost never autocorrects against cross up Tatsu, even if you do it as late as possible.
AE can’t come fast enough- with a s.MK that recovers faster and a far s.MP with a better hitbox (that hopefully allows you to whiff punish cr.MK), and less active frames on Ryu’s cr.MK (so that Elbow Drops are a bit more viable) that match up should be a lot better.
armor U2 should help with the Safe jump tatsu mix up.
but yeah its almost impossible to jump on ryu if he has good reactions.
I was giving advice to an up and coming Ryu player about the Guy matchup and my only piece of advice was this:
" Dont get baited by Guy. If he can bait you, Guy wins. It only takes one knockdown for Guy to wreck shop. If you dont fall for the bait, Ryu wins. "
Some balrog stuff, st.mp buffer EX tatsu is really useful against his dash punches it beats the ex versions really easily too, where just using ex tatsu has less range, usually only hits once and will waste meter (if you miss the st’mp then you dont have to waste it).
Also really useful, cr.mk do two half circles back and if he dashes into you press 3P.
The cr.mk will beat dash puches and ex dash punches pretty well too so if the cr.mp hits just don’t press 3P.
I’m practicing using this and it seems to work really well, it hides the motion too and with more practice it should be really good.
Cr. mk is Balrogs worse enemy on wakeup. The only thing he can do as a punish is wakeup Super or Ultra. Possibly an EX headbutt, however all of the above are risky as hell.